DB-1 Sub or other???

[Hammie]

I cannot find much discussion anywhere on this beautiful looking B&W sub.

Is it worth the $4500USD or is there a better sub for your money out there? My use is probably 80% music and 20% movies, but it can change at any point during the year. Right now it is 95% music and 5% movies and TV.

[scanido]

You could probably do better.

Check out the JL Audio Fathoms or Velodyne DD series for "musical" subs. The F112 is probably up your alley.

I use an F113 and i have never heard it not keep up with my 802's.

[htsteve]

Hammie,

I think you can do a bit better for the money than the DB1 (which I'm sure is an excellent sub).

I built an HT room about three years ago. I got a Velodyne DD18 to match my 802D's, HTM2D and 804's. Worked quite well. More musical than I expected. The DD18 is in the same price range as the DB1.

About fall of 09, I started checking out the JL Audio subs. They were awesome. More musical and definitely better visceral bass than the DD18.
I now have a Fathom F112. It outperforms the DD18 in every way. And the smaller footprint did not hurt either.

It is a truly refernece sub.


Either the F112 ($2800) or the F113 (13.5" driver, more power and $3600) would be excellent choices, depending on room size.


Hope this helps.

[peter clarke]

subwoofer

Hammie, I run 2 REL B1 with my 800D's, centre is HTM2D. These may be an option as REL have introduced G1, you may get a better price on the B1's. These are awsome brutes and take an RCA input from processor and neutrik connection from power amps in stereo/Ht, you run your speakers full range and the B1 for me is rolled off @ 32 Hz, they go way down subsonic to 13 Hz where you feel the music as well as hearing it. Hold on to your chest cavity when these babies go lo!!!!!

[Hammie]

Thanks, guys.

My room is about 11x15. I have one ported 12" sub and I feel my bass is unbalanced. I will probably eventually run dual subs and have them flank both sides of my couch.

I'm just looking long term as I really think I want to move to McIntosh amps before getting into sub replacements. I just thought it was odd that the DB-1 has been out for a while now and there is no real review of it anywhere online.

I've always heard good things about the JL Audio Fathom's and actually got to FEEL a Gotham. I read a few things about REL, but not as much as JL Audio. I would look into them, too when the time comes.

Thanks!!!

[emig5m]

I just thought it was odd that the DB-1 has been out for a while now and there is no real review of it anywhere online.

Good topic, I've also been wondering about B&W's latest sub myself. I had actually just downloaded the owners manual to it the other day. The sad thing for B&W is if their most hardcore and dedicated fans don't recommend their subs, they must be doing something wrong? Heck, even my B&W dealer steered me away from the 600 series subs and unto Velodyne.

I currently use a Sunfire Sigature EQ. I know it's not the most refined sub, but it fit my size/output/budget requirements at the time I bought it. My Velodyne MiniVee just couldn't hang with even my 683's in a smaller room - it fits with more like the 685 or 684 max, IMO. Yea, I'm the exact opposite of when I was younger (big eye catching boxes). Just don't like big boxes in the room anymore. And if I did, it would have to be something really nice looking like B&W's older rounded wood cabinet subs (especially for the prices B&W's sell for).

So.... B&W must only sell these subs to people who want a truly brand matched speaker system? Honestly, if I was buying a brand new sub right now, JL Audio is at the tippy-top of my list. I'm curious about the DB-1 though. B&W can send me one and I'll review it for everybody. :

[hifiguymi]

I like how the first two posts say there are better subs out there and both people haven't even listened to it. I haven't listened to it myself so I can't say how good it is, or not, compared to something else.

You should listen to it yourself to find out whether or not you like it. If you can't find one to listen to (since Best Buy doesn't carry the 800 Series) then I'd say to scratch it off the list of potential subs.

Eric

[windshear]

I tested the DB1 sub for a while and i really was impressed with it. However i ended up going with a Paradigm SUb 15 due to the cost factor as well as what i thought was a better Room EQ than the one in the DB1. I still have my thoughts as to if made the right choice. It is a very competant performer and you wouldnt go wrong with it , if you want to keep the speakers from the same manufacturer. So all in all if cost isnt the issue then i would say go with the DB1 as it has greater flexibility in terms of inputs and selection options. In terms of performance i think given your music/HT ratio the DB1 would be great as you can select different EQ settings depending on your mood or source material. Most other subs dont give u that level of flexibility.

[hardy]

After i heard it in my living-room I changed my old subs (2 x ASW 825) to a DB-1. It was a very good joice. I think you should hear and compare it in your room. After that you should make your choice. I am shure it will be a DB-1.

[wettou]

I cannot find much discussion anywhere on this beautiful looking B&W sub.

Is it worth the $4500USD or is there a better sub for your money out there? My use is probably 80% music and 20% movies, but it can change at any point during the year. Right now it is 95% music and 5% movies and TV.

I have two JL Audio Fathom F113 they rock :B

[dukester]

Hammie, I run 2 REL B1 with my 800D's, centre is HTM2D. These may be an option as REL have introduced G1, you may get a better price on the B1's. These are awsome brutes and take an RCA input from processor and neutrik connection from power amps in stereo/Ht, you run your speakers full range and the B1 for me is rolled off @ 32 Hz, they go way down subsonic to 13 Hz where you feel the music as well as hearing it. Hold on to your chest cavity when these babies go lo!!!!!

I'm actually in the market for the G1...did you find the REL to blend well musically with your 800's due to RCA inputs? I like the idea of A/B pwr and line lvl connections and think they will complement my 803Di's.

[peter clarke]

Rel

I'm actually in the market for the G1...did you find the REL to blend well musically with your 800's due to RCA inputs? I like the idea of A/B pwr and line lvl connections and think they will complement my 803Di's.

Dukester, I use the RCA input for Ht via a processor LFE output. I initially had one REL B1 for home theatre only; one of my dealers has N800'S at home and recommended another B1 for stereo and Ht. The beauty of REL is the speakers play full range and neutrik connection from power amps to 800D's gives the subwoofer any lower frequencies the speaker won't play, literally an addition of lo power that you "feel" the music in stereo. In Ht both LFE via processor and main speaker via neutrik augments the bass in combination. I never thought I would need sub bass systems for stereo but the difference is not marginal, now necessary!!!

[Gasoil]

Sub Db1

I cannot find much discussion anywhere on this beautiful looking B&W sub.

Is it worth the $4500USD or is there a better sub for your money out there? My use is probably 80% music and 20% movies, but it can change at any point during the year. Right now it is 95% music and 5% movies and TV.

Hi,

I've recently heard the DB1 paired with the B&W 802 Diamond and i can only say it blows you away. The 1st time i can say that from a B&W sub. I had once the B&W825 , but only for short time as i sold it after 2 months as i was really unsatisfied , impossible to set up correctly in my home-cinema and for music ... let's even not discuss it. I love B&W for their speakers but not for their subs. Before the DB1, i would say go for a REL or Velodyne, but with the DB1 , i say go and listen ..., as this new sub is totally different as you have known from B&W. If for B&W owners this sub is really interesting , as it has already predefined frequency curves for all B&W speakers in the 800 range which allows you to match the sub with your speakers.
Good luck
Gasoil

[windshear]

Hi,

I've recently heard the DB1 paired with the B&W 802 Diamond and i can only say it blows you away. The 1st time i can say that from a B&W sub. I had once the B&W825 , but only for short time as i sold it after 2 months as i was really unsatisfied , impossible to set up correctly in my home-cinema and for music ... let's even not discuss it. I love B&W for their speakers but not for their subs. Before the DB1, i would say go for a REL or Velodyne, but with the DB1 , i say go and listen ..., as this new sub is totally different as you have known from B&W. If for B&W owners this sub is really interesting , as it has already predefined frequency curves for all B&W speakers in the 800 range which allows you to match the sub with your speakers.
Good luck
Gasoil

The frequency curves only work if you use the stereo input, not the subwoofer input. However having this option does allow your to select via the trigger input how better to integrate the sub into the system and the application, namely movies or stereo music.

[dukester]

Dukester, I use the RCA input for Ht via a processor LFE output. I initially had one REL B1 for home theatre only; one of my dealers has N800'S at home and recommended another B1 for stereo and Ht. The beauty of REL is the speakers play full range and neutrik connection from power amps to 800D's gives the subwoofer any lower frequencies the speaker won't play, literally an addition of lo power that you "feel" the music in stereo. In Ht both LFE via processor and main speaker via neutrik augments the bass in combination. I never thought I would need sub bass systems for stereo but the difference is not marginal, now necessary!!!

I ordered my G1...thanks for your feedback. I wanted to audition the DB1 but my dealer won't carry them as he (as others in this forum) feels there are better subs for the money...but that DB1 is a thing of beauty.

Curious, are you running your REL's directly into the speaker's binging posts or the taps of your amp? If to the amp, are you simply running both sets of neutriks into the taps?

I completely understand what you mean about sub-bass being necessary. It's no secret how a sub adds another dimension to music however, the method in which REL does it makes it seamless. It makes the soundstage come alive (in sync) vs of having someone off-stage trying to keep up (just a fraction off)...transparency and not calling attention to itself, i like...very impressed.

BTW, after auditioning their latest R Series (505 replacement) I can only imagine how visceral a dual B1 set-up sounds like with 800's... :T

[peter clarke]

Rel

Dukester, The G1 is a thing of beauty, really looks the part in the photos I've seen, if it performs like the B-1 you'll be happy, maybe add another for stereo. The neutrik hook-up I use, similar to my dealer using Parasound JC-I monoblocks, you attach red&yellow wires to red +ve output tap and the black wire to black -ve. The dealer has VTL 45O monoblocks and hooks up similarly, he said if there was hum then the black wire goes back to the pre-amp and red wire to red +ve output and yellow wire to-ve output on the mono, however no hum so I stay with 1st option. So that's stereo hi output via the neutrik to the sub-bass B-1's. All the options in the B-1 guidebook were initially daunting but just keep studying and it simplifies. Ht adds LFE from pre processor RCA to RCA lo input and gets hi output via neutrik as above from main speaker monoblocks, therefore for Ht you have hi & lo output volume to control, lucky for you the G-1 has a remote

[Rod#S]

Hammie, If you are still interested in the DB1 there is one available on Audiogon if you prefer to buy used:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1304296653&/B-W-DB1-Subwoofer-Like-New

[jericho]

Is the DB-1 better than the ASW-855 using 15" driver?

[mb225]

Question to everyone using a sub when listening to music in 2-channel:
Once you have the sub setup with the system, how often do you find yourself making adjustments?

I'm looking at getting a JL fathom, but it doesn't have a remote and the controls are under the grill (I plan on running it with grill on). I'm wondering if it's a pain and needs constant adjustment based on the type of music?

[Rod#S]

With my 3 subs, once they were placed and the EQ run I never make adjustments and don't feel a need to. When running in 2 channel only 2 subs are in use as the 3rd is a dedicated LFE sub and the blending of low frequencies as they crossover between the left/right speakers and stereo subs sounds seemless.

[stuofsci02]

I have two subs (which I encourage especially for music), and I do not find myself adjusting constantly. But when I set them up I was aiming for flat response. Some people like a bass hump and then they may find that they need to adjust more often.

[Uav83]

Stu, what's the advantage of 2 subs? As you know, I am a heavy music listener and never heard about using two? In fact, someone on this site told me to rid myself of sub's all together. "Which would never happen!"

[dukester]

Question to everyone using a sub when listening to music in 2-channel:
Once you have the sub setup with the system, how often do you find yourself making adjustments?

I'm looking at getting a JL fathom, but it doesn't have a remote and the controls are under the grill (I plan on running it with grill on). I'm wondering if it's a pain and needs constant adjustment based on the type of music?

Awesome sub. Auditioned it against REL (113). Question; are you more 2ch or HT? I ask because if more 2ch, I recommend giving REL a listen. The price of any Fathom will get you a pretty awesome REL, which I feel are more musical due to its ability to receive the same signal as the mains instead of a processed signal (better integration IMO)...and supposedly also takes on the amps characteristics (warm, bright, etc). Again, this is my opinion for 2ch listening. The JL in the HT set up, like i said, is awesome.

To answer your question, once i calibrate/position it, i do not make any adjustments for 2ch listening...only in HT mode due to the variations in source material. Fortunately my sub (G1) has a remote.

[stuofsci02]

Stu, what's the advantage of 2 subs? As you know, I am a heavy music listener and never heard about using two? In fact, someone on this site told me to rid myself of sub's all together. "Which would never happen!"

Hey when are you going to post pictures and a complete review of your new gear?

Back on topic:

Two subs have a very big advantage IMO. It is much easier to balance out room modes and get a flater freq response for more listening positions. With two subs it is much hard to tell that there is subs at all. I have always found that integrating subs for stereo listening was a pain and I could almost never get it blended perfectly. Two subs really helped solve that problem.

One of the other advantages is you can run each sub at a lower volume which leads to less driver excursions and possible better tighter sound. Lss boominess.

Of course if I could run without subs for music I would be even happier. When my system was upstairs in a smaller room, the 804s alone were more then enough. Now that I have setup downstairs and my room is 18' x 24' the 804s just don't cut the mustard on the low end..

At the end of the day I believe subs should be installed in pairs when possible.

[mb225]

Awesome sub. Auditioned it against REL (113). Question; are you more 2ch or HT? I ask because if more 2ch, I recommend giving REL a listen. The price of any Fathom will get you a pretty awesome REL, which I feel are more musical due to its ability to receive the same signal as the mains instead of a processed signal (better integration IMO)...and supposedly also takes on the amps characteristics (warm, bright, etc). Again, this is my opinion for 2ch listening. The JL in the HT set up, like i said, is awesome.

To answer your question, once i calibrate/position it, i do not make any adjustments for 2ch listening...only in HT mode due to the variations in source material. Fortunately my sub (G1) has a remote.

This would be for a dedicated 2ch setup. But I could also use a sub for my HT.