How important is "true" bi-wiring to the 802d?

[Hammie]

I bi-wire for pure aesthetics. I don't like the look of jumpers. Period.

I did not hear any difference when moving from a single wire with jumpers to a bi-wire setup. Just my two cents.

[Rod#S]

I heard a dramatic difference in the highs and to a lesser extent the mid range when I had on loan a pair of cables for 2 weeks back in December. I heard no difference in the bass. My cables are 13 AWG and the cables I was trying were appx. 8 AWG so the difference could be due to the difference in size, design or both. Also the cables I was trying out were 7 feet while mine are 15 feet.

[Kal Rubinson]

@Kal: I respect you as one of the world-known reviewers, and I read with interest Stereophile, so for me it's a bit strange that your approach is not open-minded on this topic ("Nah"). After all, Stereophile reviewed my electronics table concluding the difference can be heard (http://forum.stereophile.com/standsr...ite/index.html), and it was key in making me decide to fork the cash. So again, why are cables not allowed to make a difference?

I never said that cables did not make a difference nor that they are not allowed to. They can and I have heard the difference in certain comparisons.

However, I have never heard a difference between bi-wiring and single-wiring when the compared cables were the same and adequate in size/design when used singly. Same for short jumpers (inside the paint :W ).

Also, IMHO (and perhaps it should be in bold), the magnitude of the differences between competent quality cables is of a subjectively small magnitude and I prefer to obsess about components that give me a bigger bang for my bother.

[mjb]

I have never heard a difference between bi-wiring and single-wiring when the compared cables were the same and adequate in size/design when used singly.

And post # 9:

As I've said before, if you hear a difference Bi-Wiring, then you should have used larger cable in the first place.

[mrciave]

I never said that cables did not make a difference nor that they are not allowed to. They can and I have heard the difference in certain comparisons.

My experience is as follows: on entry level systems, you could use cables to try to fix shortcomings of your components, for example my CD player was quite aggressive on the highs, and I found one RCA cable that was smoothing things out. Now, on a much higher level system, I find out that I'm looking for cables that let the whole musical message go through as undisturbed as possible.

However, I have never heard a difference between bi-wiring and single-wiring when the compared cables were the same and adequate in size/design when used singly. Same for short jumpers (inside the paint :W ).

How about cables with complex patterns/shielding? I can imagine you're correct when we talk about simple straight cables without complex internal winding, but I can imagine that, as a cable is in fact a RLC component, maybe the difference could be there?

In my case, I do not bi-wire, but, as a matter of fact, I enter in the speaker on the mid-high post, and use the jumper to the bass section. Did I hear a difference? Never tried :lol: .

Also, IMHO (and perhaps it should be in bold), the magnitude of the differences between competent quality cables is of a subjectively small magnitude and I prefer to obsess about components that give me a bigger bang for my bother.

IMHO, based on my last year's experience while building up my current system, the effect of cables can be so big that, at times, it can be comparable to the change of components. With big effect I mean that a cable (especially a power supply cable) can totally destroy the dinamics and musical capability of an electronic component. But probably it's true that, between competent and competent cables, the difference is small. The big effect can be found more between a competent/not competent cable comparison.

[mrciave]

I bi-wire for pure aesthetics. I don't like the look of jumpers. Period.

Best Answer Award! ;x( ;x( ;x(

[Hammie]

Best Answer Award! ;x( ;x( ;x(

Thanks!

Although I just got new speaker cables and I feel the mids are far more detailed... I bought the cables for the looks again... Aesthestics.

[style]

I agree 50%

thie little things are the key (mrciave :W )from a system stereo and a high end system!

and depend waht for speaker you have! a brand very expensive and on the high end world make speaker without the bi.wiring option.

with speaker pay with another is like wrote only a aesthetics choice.....


style

[Kal Rubinson]

I bi-wire for pure aesthetics. I don't like the look of jumpers. Period.

I did not hear any difference when moving from a single wire with jumpers to a bi-wire setup. Just my two cents.

And I bi-wire to short circuit the complaints that I cannot possibly appreciate a particular speaker unless I do. :W

[Chucka]

And what are the thoughts on Bi-Amplifying (separate amp for highs and lows) the new B&W Diamonds. For those that are now doing this on their Di's, do you hear a difference vs single wire or Bi-Wiring? Is anyone here doing Bi-Amplifying of their 804Di's?

Chucka

[Rod#S]

I just started horizontally bi-amping my 802 Diamonds. I am using a Bryston 4B-SST to power the bass and a 4B-SST C Series to power the mids and highs. I have only spent about 30 minutes so far doing critical listening but I immediately noticed a difference in the bass. It is much tighter with a bit more authority. I'll get more time over the next few days and will report back. The cable setup is not ideal because this is just a tempoaray setup while I wait to put the 4B-SST back into use to power my rear speakers in a 7.1 setup so the cables going to the mids/high are 15' whereas the cables going to the bass are 35'.

[Kal Rubinson]

Here we go again. :roll:

[stuofsci02]

Here we go again. :roll:

Agreed!

[nirvana_1911]

Originally Posted by azazel
Cables can be a waste of money. If the conductor size is big enough, I dont think you could tell any difference. Room acoustics, speakers and amps make a big difference. Worry about cables last and mainly for vanity reasons.

I agree 100%.

Also this thread should be locked to stop it being resurrected, enough has been said already.

[Rod#S]

Here we go again. :roll:

What exactly is it with my reply you appear to think is so absurd? Chucka had asked a question about bi-amping, not bi-wiring so I responded. It appeared to be established throughout the thread the affects or lack thereof of bi-wiring and people's feelings on the subject. Bi-amping had not been discussed much and Chucka asked a question and no one ever replied. Since this was my first experience with bi-amping I thought I would post my initial impressions. I didn't see any harm in doing so.

[Kal Rubinson]

OK but this has been discussed over and over on many forums. Although I have not bothered to check, it would surprise me if it had not been discussed on this one as well.

The outcome is tedious, imho.


P.S.: I did a check for threads with "bi-amp" in the title and came up with 3 pages of them: http://www.htguide.com/forum/search....archid=1589007

[Rod#S]

Fair enough, I just didn't see any harm in responding to his question in this thread. Bi-amping was mentioned earlier in the thread but never really discussed, that's probably why Chucka asked.

[Space]

I like to wrap my speaker cables around a ripe peach, for a "sweet" sound. Bi-wiring with two peaches (per side) sounds... twice as sweet. For a luxurious sound, try spending a thousand dollars on wire. My wife says it's all in my head--a shame she doesn't get it.

[bigburner]

Would someone like to explain the electrical difference between the two diagrams?



As I've said before, if you hear a difference Bi-Wiring, then you should have used larger cable in the first place.

Don't you go talking sense now Mike.

I have recently reverted from bi-wired to single wired and can confirm that there is no deterioration.

Nigel.

[Weetabix]

Would someone like to explain the electrical difference between the two diagrams?



As I've said before, if you hear a difference Bi-Wiring, then you should have used larger cable in the first place.

Bi-Amping, we can talk a little longer about, but Bi-Wiring is nothing more than a cable marketing initiative.

Here's the difference:

Attached image below

Note on the lower illustration how the back EMF generated from the bass drivers is dissipated amongst the length of cable on the bi-wire set however with upper illustration the single set of wiring, the back EMF is contaminating the signal sent to the upper drive units.

This is more evident on a 3-way set of speakers than a 2-way set, and also at higher playback levels than quieter, so if playing at low level where the bass units hardly move, the benefit of bi-wiring is non-evident, however playback at a level where the bass units are really being exercised, voila, the benefit of bi-wiring is clear.

Hope it helps.

[Kal Rubinson]

Here's the difference:

Attached image below

Note on the lower illustration how the back EMF generated from the bass drivers is dissipated amongst the length of cable on the bi-wire set however with upper illustration the single set of wiring, the back EMF is contaminating the signal sent to the upper drive units.

This is more evident on a 3-way set of speakers than a 2-way set, and also at higher playback levels than quieter, so if playing at low level where the bass units hardly move, the benefit of bi-wiring is non-evident, however playback at a level where the bass units are really being exercised, voila, the benefit of bi-wiring is clear.

Hope it helps.

Old news. However, no one, afaik, has demonstrated this being relevant with a modern low-output-impedance amplifier as well as with a LF-blocking cap in the tweeter circuit.