Next move for 803D owner: amp or source? HELP!

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  • uncle_dito
    Member
    • Dec 2006
    • 85
    #1

    Next move for 803D owner: amp or source? HELP!

    I am happy owner of B&W 803D, powered by Musical Fidelity A1008 integrated amplifier and a Sony SACD SCD-XA5400ES. I also have squeezebox duet feeding into MF A1008´s DAC, mainly for pop/rock music, while I enjoy Classical music from CD/SACD (Classical and Romantic period).

    I used to have also a MF A5CD which I sold to my brother, looking to upgrade my source. He also has vinyl (Denon DL-57), and I just love the vinyl musicality but I don´t have an LP collection and I want to stay digital/hi res. Since, looking to improve the sound of my system, I have been pondering around whether the best move is to go for a hiz rez DAC, or should I really consider upgrading my amp first.
    On sources, I have considered:
    * Meridian 808.2i (2nd hand), has DAC
    * Audio Research DAC8 (heard it at a Expo show but surrounded by very expensive partners)
    * DCS Delius or Elgar (2nd hand; but I am worried that with electronics improvements over the years, any modern DAC could sound better? What do you think? :roll: )
    * Naim DAC

    On Amplifier, well, various options:
    * from MF KW750/KW Hybrid Pre (750W)
    * to valve based design, McIntosh (MC275; MC2120), Audio Research (VS60i,...). I am concern with those comments I read that 803D are quite power hungry, but I also read reviews of the McIntosh and Audio Research that they can move large speakers fine...????

    So what do you think will really bring my system to the next level and closer to the "analogue nirvana", a change in Amps, or a change in Source?
    Do you think old DCS gems like DCS Delius can compete with today´s reference DAC like Audio Research or Naim?
    I know you will suggest to audition these, but it is quite difficult, many are second hand options.
    Thanks for shedding some light into my considerations.
    Hi Fi: Audio Research VT.100mkIII, Reference 3, DAC8; Sony SCDXA5400ES; MF A1008 integrated (backup); B&W 803D (also used in HT setup); IXOS cables XHS553 (644 SPC4mm2 high purity silver speaker cable); Chord Digital Signature coaxial, Chord Optical Optichord; VDH C5 The Bay; MIT AVt 1 analogue interconnects; QNAP TS209 NAS; J River MC21
    HT:Sony STR-DA1200ES (Front Pre Out into Reference 3 HT input); Sony SAVE-835D speakers; Sony Blu ray BDP-5000ES; REL STRATA 5; QED Reference Digital audio
    Tags: None
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    • ShadowZA
      Super Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 1098
      #2
      For CD playback I use the Meridian 808 version 1 and am extremely satisfied with it. The 808.2i was rebuilt from the ground up and is an improvement over the version 1. It also has an apodizing filter which eliminates digital pre-ringing (if I'm correct). I am unable to give you an opinion on your other sources as I've not heard them. All I can tell you is that, to me, the Meridian is king! If I were in your shoes I'd go with the 808.2i now & upgrade the amp later. This was the path which I took in building up my own system.

      Good luck & please keep us posted.
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        • htsteve
          Super Senior Member
          • Sep 2004
          • 1216
          #3
          uncle dito,

          A nice setup you have. As to your question, amp or source, my experience has been to work from the speakers backwards. So I would generally suggest the amp in this scenario. As I own McIntosh, I can definitely agree with the MC275.

          However, You have a very nice integrated amp. Better than most, with what appears to be excellent power (power is the area that I get concerned about with integrateds). So going with a source upgrade may make sense (Sony ES gear is pretty good, but I don't think the performance will match of your listed choices).

          My gut still tells me that the amp is the better bang for the buck right now.


          Hope this helps.
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            • beden1
              Super Senior Member
              • Oct 2006
              • 1676
              #4
              My Sony XA9000ES was rated an A+ CD player by Stereophile, and if I remember correctly, his Sony SACD SCD-XA5400ES was as well, or at least received excellent reviews. I don't think the OP will gain much, if anything audible, by switching his source player.

              My 803Ds really came to life when I added the Classe SSP-800 after I had upgraded my amps to Classe CAM350 mono amps.

              I loved the MC275 when I auditioned it driving my new 804Di speakers in a stereo system, but for the 803Ds, I would have to go with two of them as mono amps because the 803Ds do require sufficient juice.

              I would really like to read about your impressions after listening to the 803Ds with the MC275 amp(s), if you're able to put an audition together. I think the sound would come through super sweet.
              Last edited by beden1; 08 December 2010, 21:45 Wednesday.
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                • uncle_dito
                  Member
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 85
                  #5
                  Thanks guys very much for your advice and considerations, really appreciated. I will keep you posted once I clear myself on my next move.
                  Hi Fi: Audio Research VT.100mkIII, Reference 3, DAC8; Sony SCDXA5400ES; MF A1008 integrated (backup); B&W 803D (also used in HT setup); IXOS cables XHS553 (644 SPC4mm2 high purity silver speaker cable); Chord Digital Signature coaxial, Chord Optical Optichord; VDH C5 The Bay; MIT AVt 1 analogue interconnects; QNAP TS209 NAS; J River MC21
                  HT:Sony STR-DA1200ES (Front Pre Out into Reference 3 HT input); Sony SAVE-835D speakers; Sony Blu ray BDP-5000ES; REL STRATA 5; QED Reference Digital audio
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                    • bigburner
                      Super Senior Member
                      • May 2005
                      • 2649
                      #6
                      Hi uncle dito,

                      I'm in a similar situation to you having recently purchased a pair of 803D speakers and wanting to get the very best from them.

                      I am really happy with my source which comprises an Oppo DVD player and an LFD DAC3 external DAC.

                      I have identified that my amplifier is probably the component that I will upgrade next. My main reason is that I want to run my 803D speakers full range and I'm not confident that my Rotel RB-1080 amp has the power to do this without distortion.

                      At present my Rotel amp drives my speakers with 80Hz and above. My subwoofer does 80Hz and below. In this configuration the Rotel is doing a good job so the upgrade is not urgent.

                      However I believe that my 803Ds have the capacity to perform really well at full range at the high volumes that I sometimes demand when watching concert DVDs. I also believe that my 803Ds will provide improved presence at lower volumes with a better amp.

                      I'm not sure what that better amp is but I must say that Pass Labs is catching my eye at present. Time will tell.

                      Nigel.
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                        • stuofsci02
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Nov 2009
                          • 1241
                          #7
                          Originally posted by bigburner
                          Hi uncle dito,

                          I'm in a similar situation to you having recently purchased a pair of 803D speakers and wanting to get the very best from them.

                          I am really happy with my source which comprises an Oppo DVD player and an LFD DAC3 external DAC.

                          I have identified that my amplifier is probably the component that I will upgrade next. My main reason is that I want to run my 803D speakers full range and I'm not confident that my Rotel RB-1080 amp has the power to do this without distortion.

                          At present my Rotel amp drives my speakers with 80Hz and above. My subwoofer does 80Hz and below. In this configuration the Rotel is doing a good job so the upgrade is not urgent.

                          However I believe that my 803Ds have the capacity to perform really well at full range at the high volumes that I sometimes demand when watching concert DVDs. I also believe that my 803Ds will provide improved presence at lower volumes with a better amp.

                          I'm not sure what that better amp is but I must say that Pass Labs is catching my eye at present. Time will tell.

                          Nigel.
                          Nigel,

                          I don't think you have to worry about power with the RB-1080. You may find you want improvement in the sound quality that you would get from a better amp, but there is no reason that 200 wpc cannot drive those 803D in full range.

                          Have you read the stereophile review of the 1080? They ran it for weeks with B&W Signature 800s.

                          Rotel RB 1080 power amplifier
                          http://www.stereophile.com/content/rotel-rb-1080-power-amplifier
                          What could be easier to review than a power amplifier? No features or functions aside from inputs, outputs, and a power switch. So when Jonathan Scull asked if I could help out by taking on the Rotel RB 1080, which another reviewer hadn't been able to get to, I accepted the assignment. Before I could click my heels and say "FedEx!" twice, Rotel's 200Wpc RB 1080 had appeared.
                          Main System:
                          B&W 801D
                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                          Oppo BDP-105
                          Squeezebox Touch


                          Second System:
                          B&W CM7
                          Emotiva UMC-1
                          Emotiva UPA-2
                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09
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                            • Laurent
                              Junior Member
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 23
                              #8
                              I would upgrade the amp first as I believe you need to get the amp/speakers duo right before you can appreciate sources correctly.

                              If you like the Musical Fidelity sound then obviously you should give the KW750 a chance. It is a wonderful amp (I am biased as I do own the KW myself to drive my 802d's). It should drive your 803d's without any sweat and its associated pre is using tube technology which makes the overall combo quite sweet while precise. I have been using the KW to drive my 803S' for a while and noticed a significative difference compared with my A5. Since the KW line is not produced anymore I would imagine that you can get a great deal for it...

                              As for the source, I am familiar with the A5 CDP which I own too and which is paired to my KW. That being said I would certainly consider a DAC and a PC (or a Mac).

                              Have fun.

                              Laurent
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