Musical Fidelity V-DAC..

[specialized]

Just to share my happiness with u guys.. I had a chance to get a Musical Fidelity V-DAC for some very low price so i decided to buy it blindly without listening. My plan was to get DacMagic od Benchmark or maybe Bryston DAC, but to try to listen them first.. But since this was very low price i just get the V-DAC..

And im very very suprised.. It's amazing.. Much better then my Rotel RCD-1072 CD Player.. Also it's sound better when is connected to my Pioneer DVD (DV-610), then to Rotel (Rotel would go on sell now).

I tried different connections (USB from Computer and Optical and Coaxial cables from DVD). The best sounding combination is Optical connection with Pioneer DVD.

Before listening with Rotel i have a bit harsh highs (i always explained them with bad acoustic of my room), and a bit bloated lows..And the most weak part in my setup, there was not punch .. (to feel the music in ur chest).

What does this small V-Dac improved:

1. Much much better dynamics and punch in the chest (for example much better drums or bass guitar definition

2. Better Focus ( i feel the depth better now).

3. Smooth highs and very nice midrange. Also i cant feel that details are missing.. I even think more details there.. Also the sound is not electronic sounding.


This days maybe ill have a chance to compare it to DacMagic so i'll write my experience.

Now my plan is to upgrade power supply since i read that improve the PRAT even more..

Greetings

Darko

p.s. Im posting this in B&W club becouse seem that is very nice match to my B&W speakers (B&W 803s, Rotel RB-1080 biamped , one Rotel Per Speaker, McIntosh C2300 (very transparent PreAmp... If u feed bad sound source, u'll get all the weakness from the source and vice versa.. If u have nice source u'll have all the positive things from the source).

[audioqueso]

I'm surprised that you found it to best your Rotel. I'm glad you like you.
I had tried out the V-DAC, but ended up returning it because I wasn't satisfied with it. I compared it against the onboard DACs in my Marantz receiver and versus the onboard DACs in my Marantz DVD player. I really didn't hear any difference.

[specialized]

I'm surprised that you found it to best your Rotel. I'm glad you like you.
I had tried out the V-DAC, but ended up returning it because I wasn't satisfied with it. I compared it against the onboard DACs in my Marantz receiver and versus the onboard DACs in my Marantz DVD player. I really didn't hear any difference.

That's very very strange.. I definitly better my Rotel RCD-1072, also dacs in my Denon 3808 Receiver. It's very vig improvement in the sound i got.. The main difference instruments are more live and u can hear and feel energy that come from the instruments or vocals.. For example.. Drums or Piano.. I feel the punch with the body.. On Piano parts i can feel and listen the impact , not just the tone if u understund me. What kind of preamp u use? McIntosh C2300 is very transparent in my setup so i can feel and hear the caracter of the source (seem that dont get any coloration from the preamp).. Maybe u'r preamp was not matched good with the MF V-DAC?

In this moment im listening Giovanni Bottesini: Duetto for Clarinet, Double Bass & Orchestra..

The sound is very tight and real some how..

Also yesterday for example i played Red Hot Chillu Pepers Stadium Arcadium album.. The drums sections made me blinking with the eyes (like u are doing in real when u listen drums ), and i feel the whole punch and dynamics in the chest.. This morning i enjoyed Dianna Krall, Girl In the other room , also sound fabulous..

What speakers u have? What preamp?


Darko

[audioqueso]

Speakers were B&W Nautilus 805. Integrated amp was McIntosh MA6800.
That's what was used at the time while testing.

[HDBLU]

I also bought a V-DAC and love it so much detail the sound stage is huge with dynamic to die for and airy sound am using a old Sony as a transport and it work very well, I am also using the M6i and love the combo together. this will hold me over till I buy the M6CDP.

[specialized]

I also bought a V-DAC and love it so much detail the sound stage is huge with dynamic to die for and airy sound am using a old Sony as a transport and it work very well, I am also using the M6i and love the combo together. this will hold me over till I buy the M6CDP.

I'll definitly upgrade to MF M1 DAC which have to be on the market every moment

Darko

[stuofsci02]

I used to have a Rotel RCD-1072 and borrowed a DACmagic for comparison. I found the Rotel to best the DACmagic. If you prefer the V-Dac to the Rotel then I am sure you will find it better then the DACmagic too....

Actually I faced off the Oppo BDP-83SE vs. DACMagic, vs. Rotel RCD-1072 vs. Squeeze Box 3 (analog outputs)... Used my Chord SPM-650 Amp and a Cambridge Audio pre-amp I borrowed (can't remember the model). Speakers were my B&W804s

[specialized]

I used to have a Rotel RCD-1072 and borrowed a DACmagic for comparison. I found the Rotel to best the DACmagic. If you prefer the V-Dac to the Rotel then I am sure you will find it better then the DACmagic too....

Actually I faced off the Oppo BDP-83SE vs. DACMagic, vs. Rotel RCD-1072 vs. Squeeze Box 3 (analog outputs)... Used my Chord SPM-650 Amp and a Cambridge Audio pre-amp I borrowed (can't remember the model). Speakers were my B&W804s

Can u explain me the difference between them? Which one u prefered? How Oppo BDP-83se sound?


Greetings

Darko


p.s. I'll have dac magic this days to compare to V-DAC

[stuofsci02]

Can u explain me the difference between them? Which one u prefered? How Oppo BDP-83se sound?


Greetings

Darko


p.s. I'll have dac magic this days to compare to V-DAC

This is how they shook out for me:

1st - BDP-83SE
2nd - Rotel RCD-1072
3rd - DACmagic
4th - Squeezebox 3 Analog Out


As you would expect the analog outputs on the Squeezebox 3 were the worst of the group, but they were actually better then I thought. Then there was a reasonable jump up to the DACmagic (which was run off the SB3 coax dig out) which for me showed more detail and a slightly larger soundstage. The Rotel was a little ahead of the DACmagic for me (was slightly warmer and more balanced IMO), however if you did not have the Rotel/DACmagic back to back it was very hard to tell which was which.

Finally the 83SE was better then all and enough so that I picked it as the best everytime with every CD. The detail was improved and the sound stage was bigger with more Depth. A couple of years ago I would never have considered using a Blu-Ray as my CD player.. Had anyone suggested it I would have thought them crazy or uninformed.. Not anymore...

My next step will be to take my 83SE to my B&W dealer and compare it to some of the really "high end" players to see how it fairs..

[specialized]

This is how they shook out for me:

1st - BDP-83SE
2nd - Rotel RCD-1072
3rd - DACmagic
4th - Squeezebox 3 Analog Out


As you would expect the analog outputs on the Squeezebox 3 were the worst of the group, but they were actually better then I thought. Then there was a reasonable jump up to the DACmagic (which was run off the SB3 coax dig out) which for me showed more detail and a slightly larger soundstage. The Rotel was a little ahead of the DACmagic for me (was slightly warmer and more balanced IMO), however if you did not have the Rotel/DACmagic back to back it was very hard to tell which was which.

Finally the 83SE was better then all and enough so that I picked it as the best everytime with every CD. The detail was improved and the sound stage was bigger with more Depth. A couple of years ago I would never have considered using a Blu-Ray as my CD player.. Had anyone suggested it I would have thought them crazy or uninformed.. Not anymore...

My next step will be to take my 83SE to my B&W dealer and compare it to some of the really "high end" players to see how it fairs..

Im very interested in u'r review about 83SE.. Based on my positive feeling with my V-DAC i preordered the new M1 Dac from Musical Fidelity which have to be on market in July.. Also my plan is to get Oppo 83SE NuForce edition for multichannel music (SACD), and blue rays..


Greetings

Darko

[stuofsci02]

Im very interested in u'r review about 83SE.. Based on my positive feeling with my V-DAC i preordered the new M1 Dac from Musical Fidelity which have to be on market in July.. Also my plan is to get Oppo 83SE NuForce edition for multichannel music (SACD), and blue rays..


Greetings

Darko

I don't think you can go wrong with the 83SE for the price. The NuForce edition should be that much better.. I am meeting with a fellow who has the NuForce 83SE on Saturday... He has 803D and uses only the Oppo as a source.. I am in a similar boat with my 804s although I have a Squeeze Box 3 so I need a external DAC ideally..

[specialized]

I don't think you can go wrong with the 83SE for the price. The NuForce edition should be that much better.. I am meeting with a fellow who has the NuForce 83SE on Saturday... He has 803D and uses only the Oppo as a source.. I am in a similar boat with my 804s although I have a Squeeze Box 3 so I need a external DAC ideally..

Please share u'r experience with me.

Thank u

Darko

[stuofsci02]

Please share u'r experience with me.

Thank u

Darko

Well as I indicated above, my experience is with the other players I mentioned. All of these setups (even the SB3) sounded quite good, however the Oppo just plain outperformened it. For me the soundstage grew (especially vertical). The separation between the instruments was more. It is definately one of the bigger improvements I noticed.

Would I get the 83SE again... For sure... I don't think you can get a better player without breaking the bank and even then I am not sure how much better it would be.

Of course there will be nay sayers who will not like a BR player for CDs, but all they are doing is missing out...

And the best part of the who thing it is a damn good Blu-Ray player too.. I guess I feel like I have my cake and can eat it too..

But don't take my word for it.. There are hundreds of others out there who report the same thing..

[Randell]

Just a note, you're all using the analog outputs on the Oppo BDP-83SE correct? That way, the on-board DAC is used.

Because if you just used the HDMI outputs then you'd be sending out a digital signal, technically identical to the source, and technically no different than any other BD player with HDMI output (thus, a waste of $$).

I just wanted to point that out in case it wasn't obvious for other readers.

[stuofsci02]

Yep... That is correct.. I am using the dedicated stereo analog outputs into a stereo analog preamp to my poweramp.

Just a note, you're all using the analog outputs on the Oppo BDP-83SE correct? That way, the on-board DAC is used.

Because if you just used the HDMI outputs then you'd be sending out a digital signal, technically identical to the source, and technically no different than any other BD player with HDMI output (thus, a waste of $$).

I just wanted to point that out in case it wasn't obvious for other readers.

[specialized]

I used to have a Rotel RCD-1072 and borrowed a DACmagic for comparison. I found the Rotel to best the DACmagic. If you prefer the V-Dac to the Rotel then I am sure you will find it better then the DACmagic too....

Actually I faced off the Oppo BDP-83SE vs. DACMagic, vs. Rotel RCD-1072 vs. Squeeze Box 3 (analog outputs)... Used my Chord SPM-650 Amp and a Cambridge Audio pre-amp I borrowed (can't remember the model). Speakers were my B&W804s

And one update.. I found out that V-DAC sound better on Optical Connection then to Coaxial.. More tight and bigger sound (at least i think like that in this moment )

Greetings

Darko

[HDBLU]

I fine the V-DAC to be better on Coaxial then optical but that me.

[specialized]

I fine the V-DAC to be better on Coaxial then optical but that me.

Maybe i should change my coaxial cable? (Im using oelbach which is not that high end )

Darko

[emig5m]

Shouldn't coax and optical be bit-for-bit identical? Even cheap vs high end digital cable. :huh:

[stuofsci02]

Shouldn't coax and optical be bit-for-bit identical? Even cheap vs high end digital cable. :huh:

In general yes, however, there is the possibilty that optical would be less prone to EM interference, but possibly more prone to digital jitter. Then there is always the circuit that recieves it and does error correction on the other end. The same manufacturer might have a better coax digital front end then toslink.

Who knows? But if both are bit for bit accurate and all else being equal then there should be no difference.

[Randell]

I agree that the two digital signals should be equal. However coax seems to be preferred as there is better error correction capability, and it supports a higher bandwidth than optical. That means support for higher resolution audio formats. And coax doesn't have to do the extra conversion to light. I can't find a solid reference to support these claims at the moment but hopefully its all true

That said, in typical 2-ch sources, you will not likely hear the difference.

I went from optical to HDMI. In that case, you get way better support for high bit rate audio formats (like 7.1 TrueHD surround). HDMI bandwidth is huge.

HDMI FTW

[Glenee]

I don't understand all of it, but this is my understanding. Coax is less converting,processing than optical in the path due to the SPDF standards layed down by the Audio Gods. In sense the coax should sound truer to form. This is not always the case in that the Quality of proccesors on each type. Hence the argument sometimes some people say their Optical sound better than their coax. If all things were equal in Quality of processing the coax should sound truer to the source and with the least amount of processing, which I belive is always better. I run coax from CDP to DAC and wherever possible. I have to run optical from Mac Computer. I have very good processing and conversion on all ENDS, hence it is very hard for me to tell the difference. This is all based on 2-Channel.
This is all IMHO and I hope it doesnt sound like babbling.

[emig5m]

Well since it's digital it shouldn't matter if optical is being converted to light and then back since the exact same 1's and 0's will wind up bit-for-bit identical to the way it started. So if 1000100 is read from the source and outputted, 1000100 is received at the other end regardless if it was converted to light. This is digital remember and not recording from one cassette to another. Well say even if you're source is up/down-sampling the signal (which I'm not a fan of monkeying too much with the signal until you hit the end processor) to a different rate I don't believe the cable itself can actually alter the bits from there itself.

An easy way to test optical vs coax (and even HDMI) is a DTS encoded WAV file where if anything is being touched in any way, shape, or form from the original data you'll only hear static noise instead of your processor detecting and decoding a surround stream (how I test to make sure my PC is bitstreaming untouched). So using a DTS WAV file it will either work 100% bit-for-bit perfect, or not at all. Cable type used (HDMI, Coax, Optical - tried all three from the same source) wouldn't make a bit of difference to sound quality as it's either a 100% work or 100% doesn't work with no in-betweens....

Now if it was a case of a crappy resampler on one vs the other then I would buy it... but on the same piece of equipment it shouldn't matter as it would share the same DACs/circuits?

[audioqueso]

I can't say I remember if I swapped between optical and digital coax when I had the MF V-Dac.

[Audio_ElF]

Optical vs Co-ax

There can be issues of PSU noise being transfered via Co-ax cables due to shared ground plane.

There can be issues of increased jitter with Optical cables.

Different transports and DACs handle this differently so different combinations can work best with co-ax or optical.

Eloise

[Glenee]

There can be issues of PSU noise being transfered via Co-ax cables due to shared ground plane.

There can be issues of increased jitter with Optical cables.

Different transports and DACs handle this differently so different combinations can work best with co-ax or optical.

Eloise

Hi Eloise,
For you Guys /Gals that don't know who Eloise is, this is one of the most respected People in the Computer/Digital Audio World. You better listen.

[Audio_ElF]

Hi Eloise,
For you Guys /Gals that don't know who Eloise is, this is one of the most respected People in the Computer/Digital Audio World. You better listen.

Well I wouldn't say that - I read, digest and spout! It's an opinion that's all. Basically (wherever possible) I advise people to give it a go and compare.

Eloise