Buying advice needed for 800 series setup

[Rod#S]

Hello, this is my first post and as a potential B&W owner I could use some buying advice.

I want to get a full 7 speaker 800 series setup 2x802Di, HTM2Di and 4x805Di but don't have the money to get everything at present so I was thinking about dealing with the front first as that is where I will notice the upgrade the most, does it make sense to get the 802s without the HTM1? I'm concerned about using my current center with the 802s. Alternatively I guess I could try and suck it up and get the HTM1 as well or as another approach get the 4x805s and the HTM1 and continue to use my back surrounds until I could get the 802s.

I am not looking to upgrade my subs, I am currently running 2 Paradigm Reference Servo-15s and a Paradigm Signature Sub 25.

For reference my other speakers are:
Paradign Reference Studio 100s v2
Paradigm Studio CC v2
Paradigm Reference ADPs v2
Paradigm Reference Studio 60s v2

Thanks,

Rod

[beden1]

B&W does not produce the HTM1D any longer. The largest center speaker now is the HTM2D. That will save you some money at least.

What electronics are you going to be using?

[Rod#S]

Oops, my bad, I'll edit my post. I meant the HTM2Di. I guess I'm still in denial there is no more HTM1D :cry:

As for my electronics I have the following:

Lexicon MC-12B v5EQ
Bryston 4B-SSTx2
Bryston 6B-SST
Denon DVD-A1UDCI

Thanks

[wettou]

Hello, this is my first post and as a potential B&W owner I could use some buying advice.

I want to get a full 7 speaker 800 series setup 2x802Di, HTM2Di and 4x805Di but don't have the money to get everything at present so I was thinking about dealing with the front first as that is where I will notice the upgrade the most, does it make sense to get the 802s without the HTM1? I'm concerned about using my current center with the 802s. Alternatively I guess I could try and suck it up and get the HTM1 as well or as another approach get the 4x805s and the HTM1 and continue to use my back surrounds until I could get the 802s. Rod

Nice Rod, but do yourself a favor and use three identical front speakers very very important. All the best home theaters including commercial movies all use identical fronts. There are many reason why this is better.

With three identical front speakers, I heard a more uniform sound-stage across the three front channels with the center speaker at the same height as the left and right. Everything just snaps into a tighter acoustic focus. When I demoed that set up, I was genuinely impressed by how much more solid, cohesive, involving, and, when required, dynamic things sounded with an identical center speaker. I now have three 802D in the front :T

One thing to remember is that when introducing a center channel, in a surround system the center is used to firmly tie the dialog close to the screen. In typical cases, a center channel substantially downgrades the front L&R, as the center often gets around two-thirds of all the audio information.

The reason why everyone thinks a horizontal speaker is good is simply because everyone uses it. It was designed to compromise aesthetics and space in a living room, but it now unfortunately has mistakenly become the uninformed choice of most anyone who ever buys an HT system.

So invest in three 802Di or just use 805Di all around depending on your room size

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/center-channel-speaker

[Rod#S]

Nice, but do yourself a favor and use three identical fronts very very important. So invest in three 802Di or just use 805Di all around depending on your room size

3 identical fronts have always intrigued me however I have only seen that pulled off in rooms with a transparant projection screen or a wall mounted tv. Unfortunately (not the tv but the positioning ) I have a Pioneer 60" plasma and it's stand mounted so adding a center channel such as a 805Di would mean it could not be placed in the true center of the left and right speakers not to mention trying to accomodate a 802Di as a center But that would be amazing and only cost appx $2500 more than the HTM2Di. Dang it, now I want one

[wettou]

3 identical fronts have always intrigued me however I have only seen that pulled off in rooms with a transparant projection screen or a wall mounted tv. Unfortunately (not the tv but the positioning ) I have a Pioneer 60" plasma and it's stand mounted so adding a center channel such as a 805Di would mean it could not be placed in the true center of the left and right speakers not to mention trying to accomodate a 802Di as a center But that would be amazing and only cost appx $2500 more than the HTM2Di. Dang it, now I want one

Here is a bit of reading

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/center-channel-speaker

[Rod#S]

Here is a bit of reading

http://www.audioholics.com/education...hannel-speaker

Thanks, I'll give it a read

[Skyblue]

First thing I would save on was just get 2 805di's, or even better 804di's. There's almost zero 7.1 material out there.

Im actually in a similar situation to you, building a system in stages. My order of appearance is.

805s for rears (bought years ago)
802di x2 (ordered, eta just moved to late this month)
Classe ssp800 (ordered, eta unknown)
Class ca m5300
Htm2di
db1 x2

And should I have more money at some later stage, I think getting 804di's as rear would substantially improve over my 805s. In fact, while good speakers, I'm not sure they will perform all that well in a ht setup, as they don't really have any base. At least not in a movie sense. (They sound great with guitars)

As for 3 802's, well, that would be really nice. I too however can't really place a screen anywhere where it wouldnt be behind the center 802. Life is a compromise, but I think it will be good enough. Certainly in the top 1% of all systems in the world

Just my 2 cents.

[wettou]

First thing I would save on was just get 2 805di's, or even better 804di's. There's almost zero 7.1 material out there.

Im actually in a similar situation to you, building a system in stages. My order of appearance is. 805s for rears (bought years ago), 802di x2 (ordered, eta just moved to late this month), Classe ssp800 (ordered, eta unknown), Class ca m5300, Htm2di, db1 x2

As for 3 802's, well, that would be really nice. I too however can't really place a screen anywhere where it wouldn't be behind the center 802. Life is a compromise, but I think it will be good enough. Certainly in the top 1% of all systems in the world Just my 2 cents.

Yes outstanding system bu to me having three identical speakers in the front is essential :B

[emig5m]

Yes outstanding system bu to me having three identical speakers in the front is essential :B

Another 804S would be partially blocking my plasma and I hate looking "up" at a screen to think about raising it. Otherwise, I would agree, identical speakers all the way around is best. For me, my HTM3S center does a commendable job complimenting the 804S...

[Skyblue]

Yes outstanding system bu to me having three identical speakers in the front is essential :B

Well, maybe I'm just not audiophile enough. To me it counts for a lot that I can actually see the picture as well

[Rod#S]

First thing I would save on was just get 2 805di's, or even better 804di's. There's almost zero 7.1 material out there.

Im actually in a similar situation to you, building a system in stages. My order of appearance is.

805s for rears (bought years ago)
802di x2 (ordered, eta just moved to late this month)
Classe ssp800 (ordered, eta unknown)
Class ca m5300
Htm2di
db1 x2

And should I have more money at some later stage, I think getting 804di's as rear would substantially improve over my 805s. In fact, while good speakers, I'm not sure they will perform all that well in a ht setup, as they don't really have any base. At least not in a movie sense. (They sound great with guitars)

As for 3 802's, well, that would be really nice. I too however can't really place a screen anywhere where it wouldnt be behind the center 802. Life is a compromise, but I think it will be good enough. Certainly in the top 1% of all systems in the world

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the response. No can do on just a 5.1 setup, once you go 7.1 there is no going back You are correct in that there is little true 7.1 material however all processors and receivers derive 7.1 and even 9.1 now a days and since I have been runing a 7 speaker setup since 2004 I couldn't do without.

I did give an all 805 system some thought given that I have the low frequency range more than coverred and it would save a considerable amount of money however I have always lusted after the style of the top tier 800 series with the marlin heads so I know I would never be satisfied in doing that.

That's a sweet system you are working towards, definitely lots of enjoyment to be had there.

Thanks,

Rod

[wettou]

THere are quite a few 7.1 Blu Ray to chose from, true not enough

[Rod#S]

I have been giving the 3 802Di solution for the front array some serious thought and was curious as to how close together the speakers could be placed without getting into a situation where having the HTM2Di would produce better results? In order to pull off 3 802s two of them would be very close. Basically the layout would be the left 802 practically up against the left side of my Pioneer Elite PRO-150 60" plasma then the center 802 sandwiched literally between the right of my tv and my AV rack with no empty space and finally the 3rd 802 on the other side of the rack.
If I go the 2x802Di and the HTM2Di then I am able to maintain some space between the left 802 and my tv with the right 802 being to the right of my AV rack while the HTM2Di sets on it's stand out in front of the tv.

Oh one more thing, if I go the 3x802Di route my stereo subs have to be pulled from the front and be placed on the side walls and would be sticking out in front of the left 802. The right side of the room has a bit more breathing room so the right sub would remain out of sight of the right 802.

[RebelMan]

The LCR need to be equidistant to each other in each case. If you do not have this ability then your next best trade off is to go with a phantom center until you are able to remedy the situation physically.

[wettou]

I have been giving the 3 802Di solution for the front array some serious thought and was curious as to how close together the speakers could be placed .... In order to pull off 3 802s two of them would be very close. Basically the layout would be the left 802 practically up against the left side of my Pioneer Elite PRO-150 60" plasma then the center 802 sandwiched literally between the right of my tv and my AV rack with no empty space and finally the 3rd 802 on the other side of the rack.

Oh one more thing, if I go the 3x802Di route my stereo subs have to be pulled from the front and be placed on the side walls and would be sticking out in front of the left 802. The right side of the room has a bit more breathing room so the right sub would remain out of sight of the right 802.

Ok my set up is as follows

Three 802D in the front separated by about 2.5 feet each and LR are 7 feet apart. It works great :T My two Fathom F113 are on the side walls it works great. I have a 10 feet wide screen and my speakers are in front of the screen.

This weekend I was watching ID4 on Blu Ray and I thought the walls were going to fall, when the Alien ships position themselves over the cities :B I had to drop the subs by 10db

[Rod#S]

The LCR need to be equidistant to each other in each case. If you do not have this ability then your next best trade off is to go with a phantom center until you are able to remedy the situation physically.

Thanks for the response. In theory I could actually get the speakers setup so that the center is the same distance from both the left and right however the primary sitting position would not be in front of the center, it would be appx. 3/4 of the way between the left and center speaker. In my current setup the primary sitting position is perfectly in front of my center speaker which sets in my tv stand however the distance between my left and center and right and center is not equal, the right speaker is further from the center than the left. I never get the impression that the sound is not centered properly I guess because the speaker distances and levels are all calibrated.

[Rod#S]

Ok my set up is as follows

Three 802D in the front separated by about 2.5 feet each and LR are 7 feet apart. It works great :T My two Fathom F113 are on the side walls it works great. I have a 10 feet wide screen and my speakers are in front of the screen.

This weekend I was watching ID4 on Blu Ray and I thought the walls were going to fall, when the Alien ships position themselves over the cities :B I had to drop the subs by 10db

Interesting, since my tv would determine the max distance between speakers that means I would be placing my speakers even further apart than you have yours setup and since you say it sounds great it appears this shouldn't present a problem for me. Are your speakers all sitting the same distance from the back wall or do you have them setup in an arc? Mine would have to all be equal distances from the back wall.

I know the feeling about having to adjust sub volume on the fly :B Some movies I have to keep my remote in my hand the entire time if not I risk tearing the place down.

Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Thanks

[wettou]

Interesting, since my tv would determine the max distance between speakers that means I would be placing my speakers even further apart than you have yours setup and since you say it sounds great it appears this shouldn't present a problem for me. Are your speakers all sitting the same distance from the back wall or do you have them setup in an arc? Mine would have to all be equal distances from the back wall.

I know the feeling about having to adjust sub volume on the fly :B Some movies I have to keep my remote in my hand the entire time if not I risk tearing the place down. Do you have any pictures of your setup? Thanks

Yes they are placed on an arc so they are equidistant to my chair, I sit eight feet away from the speakers. They are two feet away from the front wall :T

Here you are






7.1 audio & front projection system
Audio:
Speakers:
- 3 Bower & Wilkins Nautilus 802D (Left, Center, Right)
- 2 Bower & Wilkins 802 (Surround side right, Surround side left)
- 2 Bower & Wilkins Signature 7NT in ceiling back speakers
Subwoofers: 2 JL Audio Fathom F113

Amplifiers: Classé CA-5200 & Classé CA-2100
Surround Sound Processor 7.1: Classé SSP-800

Universal Blu-Ray Player, DVD-A, SACD: Oppo BDP-83
Music Server: Apple TV
Super Audio CD (SACD): Sony XA777ES

VIDEO: Projector: JVC DLA-RS35U Reference Series
Screen: Stewart Film Screen Visionary, FireHawkG3 (10 feet wide, 2:35 aspect) ratio

Cables: Speaker cables: Kimber Kable 8TC, Interconnect: Mogami, HDMi 1.3: Belden

[Rod#S]

Yes they are placed on an arc so they are equidistant to my chair, I sit eight feet away from the speakers. They are two feet away from the front wall :T

Here you are

7.1 audio & front projection system
Audio:
Speakers:
- 3 Bower & Wilkins Nautilus 802D (Left, Center, Right)
- 2 Bower & Wilkins 802 (Surround side right, Surround side left)
- 2 Bower & Wilkins Signature 7NT in ceiling back speakers
Subwoofers: 2 JL Audio Fathom F113

Amplifiers: Classé CA-5200 & Classé CA-2100
Surround Sound Processor 7.1: Classé SSP-800

Universal Blu-Ray Player, DVD-A, SACD: Oppo BDP-83
Music Server: Apple TV
Super Audio CD (SACD): Sony XA777ES

VIDEO: Projector: JVC DLA-RS35U Reference Series
Screen: Stewart Film Screen Visionary, FireHawkG3 (10 feet wide, 2:35 aspect) ratio

Cables: Speaker cables: Kimber Kable 8TC, Interconnect: Mogami, HDMi 1.3: Belden

DAMN! :T That's one heck of a system you have there and one nice room for it, well done.

[RebelMan]

I never get the impression that the sound is not centered properly I guess because the speaker distances and levels are all calibrated.

It's probably the lesser of two evils for you. You may not have noticed anything different or unusual because you don't have anything to compare it to in this environment. With the center anchored as you indicated the calibrations are probably masking the deficiencies you would have noticed otherwise. You should be aware, if you're not already, that the steering circuits and the audio CODECs are optimized for (and assume you are using) LCR in an laterally equal fashion. The distances you enter in setup primarily tells the processor how to calculate the proper timing (delays) between channels and the listener. It's likely, though not ideal, you are compensating for some of the inadequacies with these settings.

[wettou]

DAMN! :T That's one heck of a system you have there and one nice room for it, well done.

Thank you :T

[beden1]

Yes they are placed on an arc so they are equidistant to my chair, I sit eight feet away from the speakers. They are two feet away from the front wall :T

Here you are

[url="http://images.blu-ray.com/htgallery/40965_full.jpg"]

Very nice spacious room and setup. The room looks very inviting and comfortable. Nice to see they use warmer dark woods in Hawaii, as in Florida, most of the builders seem to use light woods.

I bet the system sounds great!

Where do you keep your amplifiers so they don't get too hot?

[wettou]

Very nice spacious room and setup. The room looks very inviting and comfortable. Nice to see they use warmer dark woods in Hawaii, as in Florida, most of the builders seem to use light woods.

I bet the system sounds great!

Where do you keep your amplifiers so they don't get too hot?

Cherry is my favorite wood They are in the cabinet behind the speakers and it is completely open in front and back with a fan to circulate the air it never gets warmer than 42C after twelve hours of operation continuously :T

[beden1]

Cherry is my favorite wood They are in the cabinet behind the speakers and it is completely open in front and back with a fan to circulate the air it never gets warmer than 42C after twelve hours of operation continuously :T

I really like cherry too! All of our woodwork and cabinets in our first floor in PA are cherry stained over either maple or oak, as well as the ceiling in the family/great room. :T

[wettou]

I really like cherry too! All of our woodwork and cabinets in our first floor in PA are cherry stained over either maple or oak, as well as the ceiling in the family/great room. :T

I had two double custom doors eight feet tall, two and half feet wide and 2 inches thick solid cherry doors. to close the family room.

[Skyblue]

This hawai place doesn't sound too bad. Do you have bacon over there?

[Rod#S]

It's probably the lesser of two evils for you. You may not have noticed anything different or unusual because you don't have anything to compare it to in this environment. With the center anchored as you indicated the calibrations are probably masking the deficiencies you would have noticed otherwise. You should be aware, if you're not already, that the steering circuits and the audio CODECs are optimized for (and assume you are using) LCR in an laterally equal fashion. The distances you enter in setup primarily tells the processor how to calculate the proper timing (delays) between channels and the listener. It's likely, though not ideal, you are compensating for some of the inadequacies with these settings.

Thanks for the resposne. I just want to ensure I'm reading this properly, by the lesser of two evils are you saying it's better to have 3 identical speakers up front that will not necessarily be placed equi distant apart and the center not directly in front of the main seating positon as opposed to having the center directly in front of the main seating position but that center speaker being different than the left and right speakers?

[magicvinny]

How do the Bower & Wilkins Signature 7NT in ceiling speakers sound??
I have the B&W 805Di and I'm looking for "matching" in ceiling speakers.
Happy with those speakers??

[ShadowZA]

Wettou, what a fantastic setup! Beautiful! :T

Rod, I have a similar setup to Wettou's with 3 802D's as fronts. In addition to this, I have a compromise in that there is a bit of overlap between my center 802D and my 63" plasma. I considered this carefully and am prepared to accept this & live with it. My sound is more important to me ... more so having a center speaker which matches the left & right fronts exactly. I watch/listen to a lot of music on blu-ray and to me, the center channel is THE most important and critical one (used for voice/dialogue). This is simply my preference and what you prefer might very well be different. It could be helpful if to you if you managed to audition some speaker setups before making a decision. Also, to me, sound will always be more important than aesthetics. That's the reason that my wife allows me carte blanche in the hi-fi/theater room & nowhere else in the house.

Good luck & please keep us posted.

[Rod#S]

So I did some measuring last night to determine how far apart things would be if I went with 3 802Di's and this is what I determined. The left speaker would sit close to the left wall, appx. 3" away at the back and appx. 1' in the front because it would be angled inwards and about 1.5' from the rear wall. This is the exact spot I have my current left speaker. My tv is 58" wide so it would sit directly beside my left speaker. Then to right of the tv would be the middle 802 then I would place the right 802 58" to the right of the center speaker with my A/V rack and LFE sub in between the two speakers. Now this is where things start looking not so good. When watching movies I like to sit directly centered in front of my tv so that would mean I would be appx 2.5' (29") to the left of the center speaker (basically the same distance to the left speaker as well) but like 87" to the left of the right speaker. That's a long way off.
Now using a HTM2Di as a center not only I can achive an equal distance between all 3 fronts I can move things around a bit from how I have the room layed out at present to actually achieve an equal distance to the left and right speakers when I am sitting in front of my tv. Obviously none of the measurements take depth into consideration so if I was sitting in front of the HTM2Di that speaker is a lot closer to me than the left and right speakers are because with my tv being on a stand I can not place my speakers in an arc.
This is going to be a real tough decision.

[beden1]

So I did some measuring last night to determine how far apart things would be if I went with 3 802Di's and this is what I determined. The left speaker would sit close to the left wall, appx. 3" away at the back and appx. 1' in the front because it would be angled inwards and about 1.5' from the rear wall. This is the exact spot I have my current left speaker. My tv is 58" wide so it would sit directly beside my left speaker. Then to right of the tv would be the middle 802 then I would place the right 802 58" to the right of the center speaker with my A/V rack and LFE sub in between the two speakers. Now this is where things start looking not so good. When watching movies I like to sit directly centered in front of my tv so that would mean I would be appx 2.5' (29") to the left of the center speaker (basically the same distance to the left speaker as well) but like 87" to the left of the right speaker. That's a long way off.
Now using a HTM2Di as a center not only I can achive an equal distance between all 3 fronts I can move things around a bit from how I have the room layed out at present to actually achieve an equal distance to the left and right speakers when I am sitting in front of my tv. Obviously none of the measurements take depth into consideration so if I was sitting in front of the HTM2Di that speaker is a lot closer to me than the left and right speakers are because with my tv being on a stand I can not place my speakers in an arc.
This is going to be a real tough decision.

That's the problem with putting together an HT system...the center channel speaker. If I am picturing your setup correctly, I would be concerned your main L/R speakers are not far enough from the walls to produce an optimum quality of sound. Also, how far are you sitting from the front speakers, and how close can you put the front left and right speakers together on either side of your equipment/TV stand? I may have missed the information, but what are the dimensions of the room?

I wouldn't beat yourself up over this, as it is optimum in a perfect world to have three matching front speakers driven by the same amp output, but there are real life issues to consider as well. I also bet that less than 5% of the setups have three matching front speakers.

If you can move the front L/R speakers closer together, you may not have to deal with a center speaker at all, as the 802Di will have excellent imaging and will do a very good job of creating a phantom center sound effect. You may want to try this first before spending money on a center speaker you may not need.

And, unless you are willing and able to go with a projector and screen setup, you may just have to get an HTM2Di for your center channel, if, you determine that one is needed in the end.

[Rod#S]

That's the problem with putting together an HT system...the center channel speaker. If I am picturing your setup correctly, I would be concerned your main L/R speakers are not far enough from the walls to produce an optimum quality of sound. Also, how far are you sitting from the front speakers, and how close can you put the front left and right speakers together on either side of your equipment/TV stand? I may have missed the information, but what are the dimensions of the room?

I wouldn't beat yourself up over this, as it is optimum in a perfect world to have three matching front speakers driven by the same amp output, but there are real life issues to consider as well. I also bet that less than 5% of the setups have three matching front speakers.

If you can move the front L/R speakers closer together, you may not have to deal with a center speaker at all, as the 802Di will have excellent imaging and will do a very good job of creating a phantom center sound effect. You may want to try this first before spending money on a center speaker you may not need.

And, unless you are willing and able to go with a projector and screen setup, you may just have to get an HTM2Di for your center channel, if, you determine that one is needed in the end.

Thanks for the comments.

Believe it or not I am actually in an apartment The floors are hardwood (very bad for a sound system I know) and the dimensions are totally messed up because my speakers essentially span 2 rooms. My "dining room" gives way to my "living room" and the rooms are drastically different in size. My rear speakers are at the back wall of the "dining" area which is probably close to 10x10, I can measure tonight and the only things in that area are stuff on the back wall (speakers, spin bike and small cabinet) and a guitar amp on the side wall. My living room is much larger, it's probably around 17x20(or a bit more). My couch literally blocks off the way from the dining area into the living room and my tv is I think 9-10' from the edge of the couch. The left/right speakers can be placed literally on both sides of my tv which is 58" wide.

How does a phantom center work when playing a 5.1 source? Since most voice comes from the center does that info get steered to the left/right properly by the SSP when I tell it there is no center?

[Rod#S]

I heard back from my dealer and based on the prices given vs list prices it appears he is offering appx 17% off list. Does this sound like a good deal, basically in line with what most have received recently on any Di purchases?

Thanks

[beden1]

I heard back from my dealer and based on the prices given vs list prices it appears he is offering appx 17% off list. Does this sound like a good deal, basically in line with what most have received recently on any Di purchases?

Thanks

Before the recession hit, most B&W dealers were only offering a 10% discount. 17% is a decent discount. Some dealers also offer a one year trade-up policy, although none of the dealers I have dealt with offered this.

[Rod#S]

Before the recession hit, most B&W dealers were only offering a 10% discount. 17% is a decent discount. Some dealers also offer a one year trade-up policy, although none of the dealers I have dealt with offered this.

Thanks I just wanted to make sure I was getting a fair deal.

[ray5]

Thanks I just wanted to make sure I was getting a fair deal.

I got about a 20% discount 18 months ago. PM sent.

[wettou]

It all depends how many pieces you buy :B

[Rod#S]

I got about a 20% discount 18 months ago. PM sent.

Thanks, 20% is nice.

[Rod#S]

It all depends how many pieces you buy :B

Unfortunately not for me, it doesn't seem to matter how many I buy whether that be just the front 3, 5 or 7 the prices always stay the same

[Rod#S]

So I got to spend some time at the dealers over the weekend and we discussed my options and in the end he said he would sell me whatever I wanted :B

We discussed having 3 802Di's but he wasn't all at thrilled with that approach given the fact that the center 802 would not actually be in the center when I was watching tv. He said that unlike with a true stereo image which naturally creates a phantom center between the pair alleviating some off center seating position issues, when you have a discrete 5.1, with the center being mono I would immediately pick up on the fact that the sound will not appear to be coming from a phantomed image but would be planted at the location of the center 802. This makes complete sense and for some reason I had it in my head that a sort of phantom speaker would be created between both the right and center and the left and center so it wouldn't matter if I was not directly in front of the actual center but the sound would still appear to be doing that.

We bounced around a few ideas of building something to raise my tv up above the height of the 802 and even raisng the 802 above the tv 8O but quickly realized both those ideas were silly considering I have a 60" tv.

I was still concerned for a different reason, because I am willing to stretch the budget for the 3rd 802 now and may not be able to do so in the future I am worried about how much of a financial hit I will take by getting a HTM2Di now only to sell it later when I have the proper space and setup for the 3rd 802. He completely understood that dilemma and offered a couple suggestions. He asked me to do a test which is to try living with no center speaker for like a week and reconfigure my SSP with no center. If I don't mind the sound/performance of that then that would be one alternative which would not see me spend the money on the HTM2Di and perhaps allow me to get a pair of 805Dis for the side surrounds with the money (which I planned on getting eventually anyways). The second alternative was to consider moving from a 7.1 to a 6.1 in the future meaning that when the HTMDi would get replaced with a 802 then the HTM2Di could be used as a rear surround.

I'll definitely do the no center test to see how that works out especially given how against a 3rd off center 802 he is. Now don't get me wrong, he loves the idea of 3 identical speakers where it works out nicely like in wettou's setup or with the center behind an acoustically transparant screen or in front of an elevated tv it's just given the money I'm willing to spend he doesn't want to see me be unhappy when I get everything home and setup.

[beden1]

That sounds like a good plan. :T

[Rod#S]

What are people's impression of bi-wiring? I plan on getting Kimber Monacle XL cables for the B&W's and the Monacle line has a bi-wire option and I am curious as to what noticeable difference I might experience. Does the upgrade in cost typically justify (or not justify) any improvement if the improvement was perhaps minimal at best. If I were to get say 3 (providing I don't go the phantom center approach) Bi-Focal XLs that's darn near the price of pair of 805Di's and I'm thinking that money would be much better spent on the 805's. I can get a good deal on the regular Monacle XL's so I'm not too concerned on their price but jumping up to the Bi-Focal XL's is quite a jump in price.

Thanks

[style]

hi Rod#S,
you will a ht siystem or a stereo system?
3 x 802D with a 60" plasma dont' work.....you go have the basis from the video a lot to high.... and the center with the 802D is not my favorit option...
I have a 803DI and htm2D with the kuro 60": for the HT is perfect. work very fine. the basis of the plasma is at 83 cm. from the floor and at the first time I ound too much but with a htm2d and excepally with the tweeter you need space....

I have the monocle xl too: tried the bi focal but dont waste your money: the
difference is not at the level of the performance.....
a good power cord cable give you a better performance as the top interconnects, speakers cables!
A good system orn with the "electricity" that is the First "engine" needed!!!

greetings from switzerland
style

[Rod#S]

hi Rod#S,
you will a ht siystem or a stereo system?
3 x 802D with a 60" plasma dont' work.....you go have the basis from the video a lot to high.... and the center with the 802D is not my favorit option...
I have a 803DI and htm2D with the kuro 60": for the HT is perfect. work very fine. the basis of the plasma is at 83 cm. from the floor and at the first time I ound too much but with a htm2d and excepally with the tweeter you need space....

I have the monocle xl too: tried the bi focal but dont waste your money: the
difference is not at the level of the performance.....
a good power cord cable give you a better performance as the top interconnects, speakers cables!
A good system orn with the "electricity" that is the First "engine" needed!!!

greetings from switzerland
style

Thanks for the response style.

The system is primarily home theater but it serves all purposes as I don't have a dedicated stereo system. My tv is also a Kuro. The choices of center were no center (I'm currently testing this now based on my dealer's advice), a 802Di beside the tv (which the dealer does not recommend because the speaker would be off center from the main viewing area) and the HTM2Di which would be placed on a stand in front of the tv. I set appx. 10' away from the screen.

It's great to hear you actually own the Moncale XL and have tried the Bi-Focal XL and interesting to hear the Bi-Focal XL was not worth the increase in cost.
I am using a Kimber PK-10 Gold power cord and balanced Kimber PBJ's for the interconnects at the moment.