New 803D Owner (New to forum)

[dukester]

Just upgraded from 683's to 803Ds. Dealer heavily discounted open box set. Speakers are rosenut 10 of 10 and sound incredible. Question; is there a way (for peace of mind) to verify that they are truly open box and not 'used'? Not that i would be too disappointed but would like to determine dealer integrity for future purchases, as i'm contemplating upgrading my HTM61 to the HTM2. Thanks for any feedback.

[htsteve]

dukester,

Welcome to the forum! :T

That is a very nice upgrade. The sound improvement should be quite obvious. What are your electronics? The 803D's love current. So the more you can feed them, the better.


As to your open box question, that would be hard to tell. However, if the dealer is offering full warranty, then you have peace of mind. My dealers have always offered my full coverage on in store demo's or 'open box'.




Hope this helps.

[ray5]

I agree with htsteve. BUt if you really want to check the only way I can think of is call B&W with the serial numbers. If someone registered them you'd know if not then no. BUt since you have now bought them, just sit back and relax. YOu do have the warranty.
Enjoy.
Ray

[dukester]

dukester,

Welcome to the forum! :T

That is a very nice upgrade. The sound improvement should be quite obvious. What are your electronics? The 803D's love current. So the more you can feed them, the better.


As to your open box question, that would be hard to tell. However, if the dealer is offering full warranty, then you have peace of mind. My dealers have always offered my full coverage on in store demo's or 'open box'.




Hope this helps.

NAD T785 (150 watts/ch in stereo mode) and Oppo BDP 83. Working my way to 2ch set up via Mac or Classe...just waiting for my drug deals to pan out... Until then the HTM2D and a REL G1 are on deck.

Thanks for the feedback

[htsteve]

NAD T785 (150 watts/ch in stereo mode) and Oppo BDP 83. Working my way to 2ch set up via Mac or Classe...just waiting for my drug deals to pan out... Until then the HTM2D and a REL G1 are on deck.

Thanks for the feedback

dukester,

An excellent plan for amplification. Either will do quite well with the 803D's. However, I'm concerned with running 803D's off a reciever, even one as nice as the NAD. Especially since you just ordered the HTM2D, another speaker that loves the current. 800 series speakers are really sedigned with dedicated amps in mind.

You might consider something like a Rotel RB-1080 (200 watts X 2) or RB-1075 (125 X 5) to run the system until you can step up into the Mac or Classe.

I see 1080's and 1075's on Audiogon for $500-$600.



Hope this helps.

[dukester]

dukester,

An excellent plan for amplification. Either will do quite well with the 803D's. However, I'm concerned with running 803D's off a reciever, even one as nice as the NAD. Especially since you just ordered the HTM2D, another speaker that loves the current. 800 series speakers are really sedigned with dedicated amps in mind.

You might consider something like a Rotel RB-1080 (200 watts X 2) or RB-1075 (125 X 5) to run the system until you can step up into the Mac or Classe.

I see 1080's and 1075's on Audiogon for $500-$600.



Hope this helps.

Until then, if underpowered, will it be apparently obvious?

[htsteve]

Until then, if underpowered, will it be apparently obvious?

Yes. The quality of the 803D's will be such an improvement, they will sound pretty awesome. But with all those bass drivers, they will crave power. Your bass depth and extension willl definitely not be there. Also, the overall soundstage will be compressed. Once the 803D's are on a dedicated amp (preferably a stereo amp), these issues will be quickly corrected. Then the 803D's will really perform then.

Also, 'overpowering' speakers with a good amp is not an issue. However, underpowering can actually damage the drivers of a speaker. Not a good thing since you've dropped good money on the 803D's (and now the HTM2D).

I believe you were looking at getting a subwoofer next. I might suggest you look at the amplifier area first. Properly fed, the 803D's will churn out pretty good bass. It won't replace a sub, but it can buy time until you can get a good sub.


Hope this helps.

[stuofsci02]

I wouldn't worry about running the 803D from the T785... I have had a ton of NAD amps and recievers and one thing they do not skimp on is power. The T785 (NADs flagship reciever) is a power envelope amp so that 150 watts is a continuous rating at published THD numbers across frequency range.. It can deliver 250 watts for short duration... It will handle the 803d with no trouble.. Note I am using a 60 wpc NAD T742 to drive my HTM4s and rear surrounds and it has not given me any problem.. Even in loud movies..

Of course a quality stand alone stereo amp will really make the 803s shine... I recommend adding Chord electronics amplifiers to your list with Mac and Classe... Once I heard Chord with B&W I had to have one...

Cheers,

Stuart

[dukester]

I wouldn't worry about running the 803D from the T785... I have had a ton of NAD amps and recievers and one thing they do not skimp on is power. The T785 (NADs flagship reciever) is a power envelope amp so that 150 watts is a continuous rating at published THD numbers across frequency range.. It can deliver 250 watts for short duration... It will handle the 803d with no trouble.. Note I am using a 60 wpc NAD T742 to drive my HTM4s and rear surrounds and it has not given me any problem.. Even in loud movies..

Of course a quality stand alone stereo amp will really make the 803s shine... I recommend adding Chord electronics amplifiers to your list with Mac and Classe... Once I heard Chord with B&W I had to have one...

Cheers,

Stuart

I returned to the HiFi world with a 2ch goal however had to go the AV Rcvr route to appease my rational side that is married with 3 kids (movie nights). I auditioned Pioneer/Denon/Marantz/Rotel/Yamaha/Integra, of w/c Pio-Den-Rotel-NAD were all on the floor in same store/room w/my then 683's(how rare is that?) and went back and forth btw the Rotel 1560 and the T785. The NAD sound stage seemed deeper/wider and articulation had more presence (maybe due to more power) and the auto cal and modular construction swayed me even more (not by much as i wouldn't mind having the 1560). I figured i couldn't go wrong w/either since it seemed sound quality was a priority over spec sheets for both. I also auditioned the Mac's, they were paired w/some Wilson Alexandra's...so i immediately creamed my pants during the audition (engulfing sound)...then shortly shit my pants when i heard how much that set up cost (it had been a while since i last perused a high end shop). I quickly retreated to the other end of the store and won't venture back to the Mac end until financially feasible...until then i'm enjoying my NAD/803D combo. i'll keep an ear out for a Chord to audition. Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.

[dukester]

Yes. The quality of the 803D's will be such an improvement, they will sound pretty awesome. But with all those bass drivers, they will crave power. Your bass depth and extension willl definitely not be there. Also, the overall soundstage will be compressed. Once the 803D's are on a dedicated amp (preferably a stereo amp), these issues will be quickly corrected. Then the 803D's will really perform then.

Also, 'overpowering' speakers with a good amp is not an issue. However, underpowering can actually damage the drivers of a speaker. Not a good thing since you've dropped good money on the 803D's (and now the HTM2D).

I believe you were looking at getting a subwoofer next. I might suggest you look at the amplifier area first. Properly fed, the 803D's will churn out pretty good bass. It won't replace a sub, but it can buy time until you can get a good sub.


Hope this helps.

haven't ordered the rel g1 yet :scratchhead: ...any Mac recommendations to audition that will pair nicely w/my 803Ds(my dealer is a huge Mac/Wilson guy)?

[jericho]

haven't ordered the rel g1 yet :scratchhead: ...any Mac recommendations to audition that will pair nicely w/my 803Ds(my dealer is a huge Mac/Wilson guy)?

McIntosh 501 is the way to go

[htsteve]

dukester,

I understand the practicality of the HT route, and going with a receiver. I also have heard a high end Wilson/Krell/Mac setup. Yes, that does lend to sticker shock.

As for Mac amps, there are several choices. My system is 802D's, HTM2D and 804S's. When I built my HT room 2 1/2 years ago, I got the Mac MC205 (5 X 200 wpc). A very good combination. Runs HT, while providing enough juice for the current hungry 802D's. Given your choice of an HT setup, the 205 would be quite practical. The 205 is, I believe, $6k list. They are more affordable on Audiogon (and places like audioclassics.com).

Mac also makes an MC303, which is 300 wpc X3. Great for the front three channels in an HT. But the cost is stiff at $10k.

For stereo, things start at the MC252 (250 X2, plus lots of current). $5k new, but you should be able to pick up a used one for about the cost of a REL G1. From there the MC402 (400 X 2) and the MC501, the 500 wpc monoblock. Both are awesome amps. Very quiet, awesome soundstage, bass, detail, smoothness, etc. I've heard the 501 and I have a 402 powering the 802D's.

If the tube sound is somethink you like, the MC275 might be something to listen to. I do not have direct experience with them, but others on the forum have.

You can also look at Rotel. They have very good bang for the buck performance (both new & used). They have amps that can do your system justice.


Hope this helps.

[dukester]

dukester,

I understand the practicality of the HT route, and going with a receiver. I also have heard a high end Wilson/Krell/Mac setup. Yes, that does lend to sticker shock.

As for Mac amps, there are several choices. My system is 802D's, HTM2D and 804S's. When I built my HT room 2 1/2 years ago, I got the Mac MC205 (5 X 200 wpc). A very good combination. Runs HT, while providing enough juice for the current hungry 802D's. Given your choice of an HT setup, the 205 would be quite practical. The 205 is, I believe, $6k list. They are more affordable on Audiogon (and places like audioclassics.com).

Mac also makes an MC303, which is 300 wpc X3. Great for the front three channels in an HT. But the cost is stiff at $10k.

For stereo, things start at the MC252 (250 X2, plus lots of current). $5k new, but you should be able to pick up a used one for about the cost of a REL G1. From there the MC402 (400 X 2) and the MC501, the 500 wpc monoblock. Both are awesome amps. Very quiet, awesome soundstage, bass, detail, smoothness, etc. I've heard the 501 and I have a 402 powering the 802D's.

If the tube sound is somethink you like, the MC275 might be something to listen to. I do not have direct experience with them, but others on the forum have.

You can also look at Rotel. They have very good bang for the buck performance (both new & used). They have amps that can do your system justice.


Hope this helps.

Considering i know nothing of Mcintosh, tremendous help as it gives me a good reference point next dealer visit. I really liked the Rotels however A/B'd against the NAD, the NAD sounded better to me...again, not by much so i may even listen to them again in case i see any deals. Thx.

[htsteve]

Considering i know nothing of Mcintosh, tremendous help as it gives me a good reference point next dealer visit. I really liked the Rotels however A/B'd against the NAD, the NAD sounded better to me...again, not by much so i may even listen to them again in case i see any deals. Thx.

Comparing equipment is the best way to go. As you liked the NAD, why not consider the T975 or the M25. Those look quite nice. For stereo amps, the M3 or C275.



Hope this helps.

[stuofsci02]

I like this thread, because this is the exact difficulty I faced almost a year ago.

I too had 683 speakers and was intent on getting a pair of 804S. I was also looking to find the next level of amplifier/pre-pro (wanted to go separates).

I will give you my story as it may be of some help...

As I had always had NAD I started there. I always liked the NAD sound for the price. I figured I needed to try other things though, so I went and listened to a bunch of Rotel units and they sounded pretty good (better then my NAD setup), but I still preferred the new NADs. I was auditioning on both the 683s and the 804s.

Then I decided to ask my dealer to let me hear the 683s and 804s with an entry level amp from his flagship line (which was a Chord SPM650, 130wpc stereo amp). He first hooked it up to the 683s.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The 683s with Chord to me sounded better then the 804s on the 250 wpc Rotel. Not believing my ears I had him put the Rotel back to the 804s (my guy is very accomodating) and again it seemed dull and lifeless. Now with the Rotels the 804s had been much better then the 683s (tighter bass, more airy, better midrange and clearer highs). Could the amp really make that much difference.

So then for the ultimate test he put the Chord onto the 804S and ... wow! I was blown away. It was like the system had gone to the next level. Then I got the sticker price and it hurt, but no more then a Classe or Mac. It's just that I was looking at NAD and Rotel.

So for the next week I went back and forth to his shop auditioning the Chord against other Amps (Parasound (A21), more Rotels etc..) I spent at least 12 hours there with my favorite CDs trying to convince myself that I did not need to buy the Chord. I failed to do so, and purchased it (although I did get a better price).

As he did not have Mac or Classe and I could not find a dealer that did both B&W and Mac or Classe, I did not have chance to try those combinations. It was also when B&W had discontinued the old 800 series, so finding 804s was proving difficult too.

Now I always found the NAD products to be pretty neutral, and the Chord is IMO the king of neutral, but it does not do it at the expense of livelyness. So if you also like the NAD sound, perhaps a Chord is in your future.

Here is my post from when I was trying to make up my mind..

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35238&highlight=Chord

Funny stuff.. I did not own the 804s at that time, but I bought them about 3 weeks later..

[dukester]

I like this thread, because this is the exact difficulty I faced almost a year ago.

I too had 683 speakers and was intent on getting a pair of 804S. I was also looking to find the next level of amplifier/pre-pro (wanted to go separates).

I will give you my story as it may be of some help...

As I had always had NAD I started there. I always liked the NAD sound for the price. I figured I needed to try other things though, so I went and listened to a bunch of Rotel units and they sounded pretty good (better then my NAD setup), but I still preferred the new NADs. I was auditioning on both the 683s and the 804s.

Then I decided to ask my dealer to let me hear the 683s and 804s with an entry level amp from his flagship line (which was a Chord SPM650, 130wpc stereo amp). He first hooked it up to the 683s.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The 683s with Chord to me sounded better then the 804s on the 250 wpc Rotel. Not believing my ears I had him put the Rotel back to the 804s (my guy is very accomodating) and again it seemed dull and lifeless. Now with the Rotels the 804s had been much better then the 683s (tighter bass, more airy, better midrange and clearer highs). Could the amp really make that much difference.

So then for the ultimate test he put the Chord onto the 804S and ... wow! I was blown away. It was like the system had gone to the next level. Then I got the sticker price and it hurt, but no more then a Classe or Mac. It's just that I was looking at NAD and Rotel.

So for the next week I went back and forth to his shop auditioning the Chord against other Amps (Parasound (A21), more Rotels etc..) I spent at least 12 hours there with my favorite CDs trying to convince myself that I did not need to buy the Chord. I failed to do so, and purchased it (although I did get a better price).

As he did not have Mac or Classe and I could not find a dealer that did both B&W and Mac or Classe, I did not have chance to try those combinations. It was also when B&W had discontinued the old 800 series, so finding 804s was proving difficult too.

Now I always found the NAD products to be pretty neutral, and the Chord is IMO the king of neutral, but it does not do it at the expense of livelyness. So if you also like the NAD sound, perhaps a Chord is in your future.

Here is my post from when I was trying to make up my mind..

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35238&highlight=Chord

Funny stuff.. I did not own the 804s at that time, but I bought them about 3 weeks later..

I'm sure my predicament brings back fond memories of a not so fond times. You know exactly what i'm going through...finding the balance between budget and regret. I hope to follow you as it seems you have pulled it off. I'm looking to audition the M25/T975 and find a Chord dealer to hear them as well. Greatly appreciate the feedback. :T

[stuofsci02]

I'm sure my predicament brings back fond memories of a not so fond times. You know exactly what i'm going through...finding the balance between budget and regret. I hope to follow you as it seems you have pulled it off. I'm looking to audition the M25/T975 and find a Chord dealer to hear them as well. Greatly appreciate the feedback. :T

Thats the truth..... I recall losing some sleep over it... Imagine that.. A full grown man with kids etc. losing sleep over amplifier selection.

I am not sure I pulled if off completely... There are other things I need for sure and now I am just completing a home theater family room in the basement. This has set me back a pretty penny so although I bought the Chord and the 804s and a bunch of other things at the same time, I will always remember last December as the month I dropped $12k on home audio.. This might not be a lot for some, but it was for me... So future upgrades will have to wait.

Anyways, now that I am done rambling, good luck with your hunt and let me know how it goes!

[dukester]

Thats the truth..... I recall losing some sleep over it... Imagine that.. A full grown man with kids etc. losing sleep over amplifier selection.

I am not sure I pulled if off completely... There are other things I need for sure and now I am just completing a home theater family room in the basement. This has set me back a pretty penny so although I bought the Chord and the 804s and a bunch of other things at the same time, I will always remember last December as the month I dropped $12k on home audio.. This might not be a lot for some, but it was for me... So future upgrades will have to wait.

Anyways, now that I am done rambling, good luck with your hunt and let me know how it goes!

Dec was when i made the leap as well...started with the 683's/HTM61 and no av/rcvr. Didn't get into the T785 until April. Was very happy with the set-up, especially with the 683 bass output. However it wasn't all there yet and the dealer "full credit" option kept nagging at me. Last month, couldn't pass up the "deal of the lifetime" (per the dealer) on the 803Ds. Wasn't long before the HTM61's days were numbered...

For now i'll wait to see how the HTM2D impacts the system and go from there. The appeal of the G1 combined with my front 3 has me hoping the T785 can handle the extra load, giving me time to decide (and save up more coin).

BTW, did you finish your HT project? B&W's are awesome stand alone...what better than to build a HT to compliment them...

[stuofsci02]

Dec was when i made the leap as well...started with the 683's/HTM61 and no av/rcvr. Didn't get into the T785 until April. Was very happy with the set-up, especially with the 683 bass output. However it wasn't all there yet and the dealer "full credit" option kept nagging at me. Last month, couldn't pass up the "deal of the lifetime" (per the dealer) on the 803Ds. Wasn't long before the HTM61's days were numbered...

For now i'll wait to see how the HTM2D impacts the system and go from there. The appeal of the G1 combined with my front 3 has me hoping the T785 can handle the extra load, giving me time to decide (and save up more coin).

BTW, did you finish your HT project? B&W's are awesome stand alone...what better than to build a HT to compliment them...

Carpet is being installed tomorrow..

The HT room is approx 23' long x 18.5' wide. I am definately looking forward to this, but it means more things to buy...

I am looking at TVs, furniture, need new system for upstairs (speakers etc.) when I move the B&W system down.. It never ends..

You should be quite good with your T785 for as long as you need it.. Just make sure to spend a lot of time auditioning different things...

BTW, your setup will be awesome now that you ditched the HTM61 and went with the HTM2D.. I never liked the HTM61... The HTM4s I have now is much much better... It is the little guy of the 800 series, but it is about the same size as the HTM61...

[dukester]

Carpet is being installed tomorrow..

The HT room is approx 23' long x 18.5' wide. I am definately looking forward to this, but it means more things to buy...

I am looking at TVs, furniture, need new system for upstairs (speakers etc.) when I move the B&W system down.. It never ends..

You should be quite good with your T785 for as long as you need it.. Just make sure to spend a lot of time auditioning different things...

BTW, your setup will be awesome now that you ditched the HTM61 and went with the HTM2D.. I never liked the HTM61... The HTM4s I have now is much much better... It is the little guy of the 800 series, but it is about the same size as the HTM61...

It truly never does end...to go away from the B&W sound as upstairs replacements would be a tough decision. Currently, i'm using 4 M-1s (7.1) as surrounds and they fill in nicely (paid $400 for all 4 "going out of business" sale) so i'll most likely use those as my "alternate" location once i get my basement in order. Looking forward to seeing pix of your set-up.