New B&W serie 800 !!!

[AV-OCD]

Was the room where they listened to the 805Di's the size of 8'X10"? The 801Di's would have been to overpowering in that size of room.

Huh?

Seems like a pretty big jump in logic you're making there.

This happens to the be the premier of the line at the largest dealer in his area. They have set up each speaker as optimally as they could in dedicated rooms for each.

[wettou]

Huh? Seems like a pretty big jump in logic you're making there.

801Di don't exist

[AV-OCD]

801Di don't exist

Doh! Meant 800Di.

[wettou]

Doh! Meant 800Di.

That is what I thought but just checking maybe the decide to release the 801D again

[beden1]

Huh?

Seems like a pretty big jump in logic you're making there.

This happens to the be the premier of the line at the largest dealer in his area. They have set up each speaker as optimally as they could in dedicated rooms for each.

How else can you explain someone thinking the 805Di sounded better in some respects as compared to the 800Di? I can't imagine under any circumstances where that can be remotely possible, given each was properly positioned and driven??

[stuofsci02]

How else can you explain someone thinking the 805Di sounded better in some respects as compared to the 800Di? I can't imagine under any circumstances where that can be remotely possible, given each was properly positioned and driven??

I can see this as completely possible. The 805Di should disappear better then the 800Di due to it's small size. It may also image a little better being that there is less cabinet surface area. Also, being a two way, it is certainly plausible that the integration between the tweeter and mid/bass driver is more seemless the the three way design with the FST on the larger models.

Of course the 800Di should be able to do most things better then the 805Di, but that does not mean that 805Di cannot be superior in some aspects. If the listener puts those aspects at the top of the priority list then only they can say which they like better.

Of course I will reserve my opinion until after I have heard both as Tim has..

[stuofsci02]

Hah dont worry Stu I have been there as well mate
When your ready there are plenty of excellent preamps out there at far more competitive prices that will add to the fun factor and thrill of getting closer to realising your complete solution to go with what you already purchased.

And of course all of us will be interested, including me.

Cheers
Orb

I am ready for a pre-amp for sure.. Because my system pulls double duty with my home theater I would like something with a true HT bypass.. Any ideas that won't break the bank (bank breakers include anything that starts with CPA)...

[AV-OCD]

How else can you explain someone thinking the 805Di sounded better in some respects as compared to the 800Di? I can't imagine under any circumstances where that can be remotely possible, given each was properly positioned and driven??

Because at the end of the day, there is virtually no correlation between cost/size and personal preference. That's what you get when a decision is based on subjective appeal. I've owned a set of $3K monitors that I liked much better overall than a set of $13K floorstanders that followed them. Sure the floorstanders had much better bass, but after a while, the midrange was very fatiguing. I also traded in a set of $16K floorstanders for speakers that cost two thirds as much that I liked better. Sure these were different speakers from different makers, but in my experience the concept also applies to different models within the same line.

You may very well think the 800Di kills the 805Di in every area, but I don't believe that you have had that experience yet have you?

I personally felt the 802Di was the better speaker overall than the 805Di, even with the slight brightness to its character. But I don't have the room or the need for a speaker that size. If you or anyone else does, it would certainly be worthy of audition.

[beden1]

Because at the end of the day, there is virtually no correlation between cost/size and subjective appeal. That's what you get when a decision is based on subjective appeal. I've owned a set of $3K monitors that I liked much better overall than a set of $13K floorstanders that followed them. Sure the floorstanders had much better bass, but after a while, the midrange was very fatiguing. I also traded in a set of $16K floorstanders for speakers that cost two thirds as much that I liked better. Sure these were different speakers from different makers, but I believe the concept still applies to the situation in my previous post.

You may very well think the 800Di kills the 805Di in every area, but I don't believe that you have had that experience yet have you?
I personally felt the 802Di was the better speaker overall than the 805Di, even with the slight brightness to its character. But I don't have the room or the need for a speaker that size. If you or anyone else does, it would certainly be worthy of audition.

I had listened to all of the 800 Diamond Series speakers in three different dealers on many, many occasions, and got a very good feel for each.

I have not heard any of the 800 Series Di speakers as yet, but if they correlate with the 800D Series, I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I feel your explanation is pure bunk. :E

I have never heard any brightness character from any 802D speaker, nor any 800 Series Diamond speaker before, ever, so possibly B&W screwed up with the new series?

[AV-OCD]

I had listened to all of the 800 Diamond Series speakers in three different dealers on many, many occasions, and got a very good feel for each.

I have not heard any of the 800 Series Di speakers as yet, but if they correlate with the 800D Series, I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I feel your explanation is pure bunk. :E

I have never heard any brightness character from any 802D speaker, nor any 800 Series Diamond speaker before, ever, so possibly B&W screwed up with the new series?

You are reading more into my comment about the brightness than you need to. EVERY speaker colors the sound in some way. The 802Di to MY EARS, was SLIGHTLY bright/forward. Not aggressive or harsh in any way, but a bit bright.

Doesn't matter to me if you agree or not. There are not absolutes, no givens, no right, and no wrong when dealing with subjective preference.

[beden1]

I think you should spend some time really listening to the B&W 800 Diamond Series or Di Series speakers in a dealer's listening room, and with them connected to the same quality component electronics (not some receiver). Do a legitimate listening test with each speaker set up in the same place, and using the same music for each. Also get a feel for the character of the listening room. I find that some dealers have dead sounding rooms, but at least everything will be compared equally.

Spend the time, and then I will be very interested in your comments about how they sound.

Also, I think anyone needs to legitimately listen with their ears and soul, and not with the thinking that goes with - this one sounds better because it's cheaper, and I can afford it.

[beden1]

You are reading more into my comment about the brightness than you need to. EVERY speaker colors the sound in some way. The 802Di to MY EARS, was SLIGHTLY bright/forward. Not aggressive or harsh in any way, but a bit bright.

Doesn't matter to me if you agree or not. There are not absolutes, no givens, no right, and no wrong when dealing with subjective preference.

With the 802D and 800D speakers, what you describe about the 802Di, is you may have sensed the B&W sound of more absolute clarity, as opposed to slightly bright/forward. Also, I have sensed that a forward sound seems to come more from speaker placement (and rotation), and...here goes...what amp is being used as well!

I also sensed a forward character in my 803Ds when I had them first hooked up to a Pioneer Elite receiver. It went away when I switched to a CP500 and later to the SSP-800, along with using a Classe amp. This improved more when I added the CAM-350's for my 803Ds.

[beden1]

I was thinking about B&W speakers while just walking my dog, and about your impression that the 800Ds were a bit forward sounding.

I don't know about the new Di versions, but the B&W 800 Diamond Series speakers house sound is clarity, for the lack of better terminology. Because of this clarity, you have to spend the bucks on a quality front end in order to get the sound that they were designed to deliver. And unfortunately, there are no short cuts that they will allow.

Don't get me wrong, because I now love the sound of my system with the 803Ds as the anchor, but, it was hell to pay to get there. They are very demanding speakers to get the sound right. They really only came together for me after I finally added the SSP-800, and the mono amps before that, and etc., and etc.

B&W Diamond Series speakers are definitely not for the guys who want to just slap it all together, and then sit back and kick their shoes off, IMO.

[AV-OCD]

I think you should spend some time really listening to the B&W 800 Diamond Series or Di Series speakers in a dealer's listening room, and with them connected to the same quality component electronics (not some receiver). Do a legitimate listening test with each speaker set up in the same place, and using the same music for each. Also get a feel for the character of the listening room. I find that some dealers have dead sounding rooms, but at least everything will be compared equally.

Spend the time, and then I will be very interested in your comments about how they sound.

Also, I think anyone needs to legitimately listen with their ears and soul, and not with the thinking that goes with - this one sounds better because it's cheaper, and I can afford it.

Benden -

While it seems we are gaining some semblance of a civil conversation, I find your constantly negative interpretation of my posts tiring. I've been in the hobby for the better part of 15 years and I know how to audition equipment. And unlike you, who will challenge others based on preconceived notions about how things "should be", I speak from experience. I've listened to everything from Bose to $125K / pair Wilson Alexandrias, and just about everything in between. That is not to say that my experiences should be taken as the truth, and they are not presented to sway others into liking what I like, but this is a forum where people come together to share a common interest in high-fidelity and I'm going to share what I've experienced. How each of us approach pursuit of better sound is unique and each of our goals and preferences are at least slightly different.

I never said that an AVR is = to the best out there, but for me, right now, I hope that it is good enough. If, after I get the 805Di's, I find that the Denon doesn't cut it, I'll be the first to admit that I had made a mistake and I'll find something else that does work, even if it means tossing the budget out the window and going back to Classe. Making mistakes is not fun, but it is part of the learning process / experience that I am willing to accept.

I can assure you that my comments on sound quality so far have had nothing to do with price vs performance. A good speaker is a good speaker, regardless of price or size. A big speaker is massively more complex and harder to get right. There are advantages of the simplicity of a small speaker, and with advances in technology, small speakers have become much more capable than you give credit, especially since I don't believe you have even listened to some of the more recent offerings. With that said, I've already stated that I preferred the 802Di, just not enough for you apparently.

[AV-OCD]

With the 802D and 800D speakers, what you describe about the 802Di, is you may have sensed the B&W sound of more absolute clarity, as opposed to slightly bright/forward. Also, I have sensed that a forward sound seems to come more from speaker placement (and rotation), and...here goes...what amp is being used as well!

I also sensed a forward character in my 803Ds when I had them first hooked up to a Pioneer Elite receiver. It went away when I switched to a CP500 and later to the SSP-800, along with using a Classe amp. This improved more when I added the CAM-350's for my 803Ds.

Even though you are not a measurements guy, the graph below of the 802D clearly shows that this speaker has a lifted treble. This will typically result in a bright sound, but not always. In the case of the 802D, the treble level is offset by the rise in the bass, which to some will sound polite or laid back through the mids, which it is. But when you do a "smile curve" in the frequency response of a speaker, it can go either way. Sometimes your brain will take the lifted treble and bass as the reference points and instead of sounding recessed through the mids, it will sound bright and bass heavy. But thankfully with the diamond tweet, the treble is so clean, that this lift in treble doesn't sound harsh or aggressive, but can give the impression of improved resolution.

[Briz vegas]

Anyone else been to audition the 80# Di? I have been too scared (smart?) to check out whether they have arrived in Australia yet. I am enjoying my 804s so much recently that I don't want to ruin it.

[KyaDawn]

I went for the Denon big guns - the AVR5308, with a torroidal transformer and the updgraded DACs and processors. What I'm more concerned about at the moment is the base-line sound quality. But I'll have to wait until I get the 805Di's to make that call since I'm temporarily running some very inexpensive speakers right now and it don't sound so good. Go figure. :W

No, the Denon "big guns" would be the AVP-A1HD/POA-A1HD combo. :B I was looking at the 5308 a couple of years ago, but strangely Denon didn't make it available in Hong Kong. Good luck on the 805Di/Denon pairing. On paper, it should work well, but unfortunately, you really have to hear it to know.

[AV-OCD]

No, the Denon "big guns" would be the AVP-A1HD/POA-A1HD combo. :B I was looking at the 5308 a couple of years ago, but strangely Denon didn't make it available in Hong Kong. Good luck on the 805Di/Denon pairing. On paper, it should work well, but unfortunately, you really have to hear it to know.

True.

OK, so the big gun of Denon AVRs then.

Yes, once rubber hits the road, as they say, is the true test.

You mentioned using a Denon AVR as a prepro. Do you also use that for stereo listening? Or do you use a 2CH pre with HT bypass?

[KyaDawn]

True.

OK, so the big gun of Denon AVRs then.

Yes, once rubber hits the road, as they say, is the true test.

You mentioned using a Denon AVR as a prepro. Do you also use that for stereo listening? Or do you use a 2CH pre with HT bypass?

Yes, I use it for stereo listening as well. I need it for the Audyssey! :B With the Audyssey on compared to the "pure direct", even for stereo the Audyssey still wins, and not by a small margin. My room simply isn't "ideal" by any means, and I'm not the type to put up lots of room correction. Never considered another 2 channel pre-amp just for stereo, I like my Denon well enough! :T Plus my CDs and SACDs never sounded as good as when my player is connected to my Denon by HDMI as they are now.

[AV-OCD]

Yes, I use it for stereo listening as well. I need it for the Audyssey! :B With the Audyssey on compared to the "pure direct", even for stereo the Audyssey still wins, and not by a small margin. My room simply isn't "ideal" by any means, and I'm not the type to put up lots of room correction. Never considered another 2 channel pre-amp just for stereo, I like my Denon well enough! :T

Good deal. I only asked, as that seems to be the way a lot of audiophiles go. My room is partially treated, but due to limited speaker placement options, I tend to find EQ improves sound quality more than signal purity as well, especially for bass and my surrounds.

[KyaDawn]

Good deal. I only asked, as that seems to be the way a lot of audiophiles go. My room is partially treated, but due to limited speaker placement options, I tend to find EQ improves sound quality more than signal purity as well, especially for bass and my surrounds.

Do most of these 2 channel pre-amps utilize analog connections? Another reason why I like the Denon for stereo is I use an OPPO player as my transport connected by HDMI and like my edit above says, I've never heard my CDs and SACDs sound better (not to mention DVD-As ). Maybe if I was using a very expensive transport I would want to take advantage of its superior DACs and connect via analog to a high quality 2 channel pre-amp (if I had the correct room for it), but the way my room and system is set up now, the OPPO/Denon HDMI pairing works great.

[AV-OCD]

Do most of these 2 channel pre-amps utilize analog connections? Another reason why I like the Denon for stereo is I use an OPPO player as my transport connected by HDMI and like my edit above says, I've never heard my CDs and SACDs sound better (not to mention DVD-As ). Maybe if I was using a very expensive transport I would want to take advantage of its superior DACs and connect via analog to a high quality 2 channel pre-amp (if I had the correct room for it), but the way my room and system is set up now, the OPPO/Denon HDMI pairing works great.

Yes, you've got the idea. A player with a good DAC section sent analog out to the 2CH pre, or a transport to an outboard DAC to the 2CH pre.

[Orb]

I am ready for a pre-amp for sure.. Because my system pulls double duty with my home theater I would like something with a true HT bypass.. Any ideas that won't break the bank (bank breakers include anything that starts with CPA)...

Sent you a PM, but not sure how many of those would include a good HT bypass.

Cheers.
Orb

[Orb]

Do most of these 2 channel pre-amps utilize analog connections? Another reason why I like the Denon for stereo is I use an OPPO player as my transport connected by HDMI and like my edit above says, I've never heard my CDs and SACDs sound better (not to mention DVD-As ). Maybe if I was using a very expensive transport I would want to take advantage of its superior DACs and connect via analog to a high quality 2 channel pre-amp (if I had the correct room for it), but the way my room and system is set up now, the OPPO/Denon HDMI pairing works great.

From the reviews and measurements I have seen over here when its comparing Marantz to Denon (seen for both their high end transports and AVRs)
The Denon seems better at digital while the Marantz at analogue, this includes the relevant input/output as well.
Slightly different focuses while using the same base components but with a subtle design/implementation change.

Cheers
Orb

[beden1]

Benden -

While it seems we are gaining some semblance of a civil conversation, I find your constantly negative interpretation of my posts tiring. I've been in the hobby for the better part of 15 years and I know how to audition equipment. And unlike you, who will challenge others based on preconceived notions about how things "should be", I speak from experience. .

Since you know how to audition equipment, I guess I'm wondering why you find the need to trade your own equipment so often, even though you seem thrilled with it in the beginning?

[KyaDawn]

Speaking of, I have a friend that is attending the unveiling of the 800 Diamond series right now at his local dealer. The early report from him and his friends with him is that the star of the show is the 805Di. He didn't give me a lot of detail, but they are running everything on Classe gear and he "likes the midrange of the 805Di the best" (as compared to the 800Di, and 804Di).

I wonder if the 805 Diamond is the "star of the show" because it's the model with the most improvement and also with the best "bang-for-the-buck" in the series. $5K for a diamond model is a much lower cost of entry than in the previous 800D series. Matched with a good subwoofer, the cost would still be lower than one of the Marlan head models and might provide "comparable" performance. The interesting thing to me, however, is that with another 805 Diamond pair as surrounds and possibly as a center (or with the HTM4 Diamond), you would have a perfectly timbre-matched HT set-up. Not bad for less than the price of a pair of 802 Diamonds.

As for the 805 Diamond's mid-range being better than the 800 Diamond's, I find that difficult to believe, though admittedly I haven't heard either model. The 805 Diamond's mid-range/woofer isn't a FST model like on the 800 Diamond, and in my experience, the addition of the woofers on the 800 series three-way models actually improves the balance of the mid-range as well.

[Orb]

Since you know how to audition equipment, I guess I'm wondering why you find the need to trade your own equipment so often, even though you seem thrilled with it in the beginning?

Beden,
not sure whats going on here but you have now been going on about this since page30 of this thread.
As an example, here was my response to you back at page30.....

I have been following Tim's experience from the very beginning and also chatted over PM for quite some time.
While this is speculation, as far as I am concerned Tim did find the system in the end that met the requirements for the long term.
However IMO Tim has the audio interest bug pretty deep and even when a system is pretty spot on, its always interesting to see how other systems compare.
Audio diversity is so large and if you are willing to experience and learn, then changing equipment will be a fact of life, the challenge though is finding a price bracket you can live within and enjoy experimenting with products.
Hence why I feel Tim's next step is to find the level of performance equating to his WB/Classe setup but at a more competitive price.

This is for two reasons; 1st is experience and knowledge to see how good you can get your system bang/bucks, and 2nd as I mentioned that a more price competitive system means it is more viable to explore different hardware and audio implementations.
Maybe this is the reason some become audio journalists (the good ones), they too are deeply curious and enjoy listening and comparing/experiencing many different products.

Cheers
Orb

Think its really best to just let this drop now otherwise its just going to be negative for everyone reading this thread.
And just to add, Tim may have to jump straight back towards using Classe (if the Denon does not work out) because there just is not anything else that is cheaper and also combines manual EQ with quality sound/build, it seems to be Denon or jump straight up to the price bracket of the Classe SSP (maybe new Anthem but even that has a highish price)
ALthough a viable option may be Classe SSP with different amp.

Thanks
Orb

[Relentless]

This really has become a let's discuss anything thread.

:lol: that usually happens when a new product comes out and we all are anxious to read impressions about it but there are just not enough of them in the field to get a constructive conversation going yet......damn I just did it again :M

[wettou]

Ok say what you want the Marlan heads are definitely better :T

[KyaDawn]

Ok say what you want the Marlan heads are definitely better :T

Agreed, though I would need to hear the new models to be 100% sure.

[alebonau]

Beden,
not sure whats going on here but you have now been going on about this since page30 of this thread.
As an example, here was my response to you back at page30.....

Think its really best to just let this drop now otherwise its just going to be negative for everyone reading this thread.
And just to add, Tim may have to jump straight back towards using Classe (if the Denon does not work out) because there just is not anything else that is cheaper and also combines manual EQ with quality sound/build, it seems to be Denon or jump straight up to the price bracket of the Classe SSP (maybe new Anthem but even that has a highish price)
ALthough a viable option may be Classe SSP with different amp.

Thanks
Orb

yeah and its not like he's going to some cheapo AVR or something this is the denon flagship avr ! the guy can make his own mind up am quite sure, and whether he wants to chop or change or buy something else not really anyone else's worry he's quite entitled to without the spanish inquisition ! :E

one way or the other good luck with things tim, anyways can we get back to B&W speakers ! not sure why people want to keep jumping on tims back ! :roll:

[alebonau]

Ok say what you want the Marlan heads are definitely better :T

they are kinda sexy theres no question ! :T

[AV-OCD]

Since you know how to audition equipment, I guess I'm wondering why you find the need to trade your own equipment so often, even though you seem thrilled with it in the beginning?

I'm done explaining myself. Back to the topic at hand.

[stuofsci02]

Tim,

Did you find the 805D sounded anything like the signature diamond you referenced listening to at another time?

I just stopped by my dealer today hoping to see some of the new diamonds, but he has not got them in yet. I am really interested in hearing the 805D..

[specialized]

I wonder if the 805 Diamond is the "star of the show" because it's the model with the most improvement and also with the best "bang-for-the-buck" in the series. $5K for a diamond model is a much lower cost of entry than in the previous 800D series. Matched with a good subwoofer, the cost would still be lower than one of the Marlan head models and might provide "comparable" performance. The interesting thing to me, however, is that with another 805 Diamond pair as surrounds and possibly as a center (or with the HTM4 Diamond), you would have a perfectly timbre-matched HT set-up. Not bad for less than the price of a pair of 802 Diamonds.

As for the 805 Diamond's mid-range being better than the 800 Diamond's, I find that difficult to believe, though admittedly I haven't heard either model. The 805 Diamond's mid-range/woofer isn't a FST model like on the 800 Diamond, and in my experience, the addition of the woofers on the 800 series three-way models actually improves the balance of the mid-range as well.

Im reading whole thread and decide to reply right now.. Im owning B&W 803s, HTM3S and 805S, driven by McIntosh C2300 Preamp, Denon 3808 for surround duties and Rotel RB-1080 (One Rotel per speaker BiAmped for the fronts), and third Rotel RB-1080 on channel for the center, one for 805S, and second 805S driven by Denon 3808. Also im using Mordaunt Short Sub.

Also my very close friend have 803D for the fronts, HTM3S, and 805S for the rears, also driven by Rotel RB-1080 (Also biamped one per speaker), he have two Subs B&W ASW 800 (diagonaly located in his room), and as Preamp/Surround duties he use Classe SSP-800.. We have a lot of listening sessions at my place and also at his place..

What we found out:

1. We cant notice difference between Diamond tweeters and S tweeters (we got much more improvement in highs when we tried McIntosh MC501 compared to Rotels then D vs S).

2. Instead of my 805S i wanted 804S (for a perfect match to my fronts). But there was not any more on stock so i decide to get 805S (just before new series come out, becouse there is no chance for me to spend 5000 USD or EUR for a pair of 805).

Based on reading on this thread i compared 805S vs 803S in my setup.. There is no chance for 805S. 803S have much clear sound, also sound is more holographic and more 3D, and music envelope around u. 805S is not a bad speaker at all (when i purchased 803s i have similar test and difference was so big even then even when i didnt have McIntosh and BiAmped Rotels).
I guess the same is in the new series.. The biggest difference u have on parts with a lot of dinamics and a lot of instruments. To compare 805D against 802D is a bit too enthusiastic Also it's very important the size of the room.. In room where 805D would sound perfectly 802D would sound boomy and muddy.. And where 802D shine, 805D would be very thin sounding.. Anyway, definitly FST speakers are much better then non fst in same series, so im sure 805D dont have any chance against 802D, 803D and maybe even 804D. Another thing, i never success to integrate sub that good to be comparable to bigger size speaker, so when i listen music i dont use SUb at all.. Even for concerts i prefer bass that i got from my speakers. I use sub only for movies.. My first idea was to get 805S and to buy subs, but midrange was much better on 803S, and i never succeed to integrate sub that good with 805S that always at the end i prefer sound of 805S without sub. When i switched again on 803 there was no need for a dilema at all

About electronics.. AS i said i own Denon 3808 receiver. If i connect speakers on Denon and compare them, yes then difference it's not that big between 805s and 803S. But.. It lack a lot.. U dont listen speaker like u should.. As i put better electronics, difference it's bigger and bigger, and also sound better and better..

My opinion is that new series is just marketing and dont excuse such a price increment. U'll say that on 802D and 803D there is not so much price increment.. But if u count in percent i think still is a lot of money.. And biggest price jump is in 805D, and u say a lot of improvements came.. I think again.. Marketing. B&W know that the cheapest speakers in 800 series is the one that they sell the most, so biggest price difference is here (B&W would sell much more 805D then 802D), so the biggest marketing hype is here..

There is a lot of peoples in the world that buy things based on marketing and reviews.. For some is enough to buy "800 series speaker", just for show up.. Some of them would just buy without listening.. And becouse 805D is cheapest from the line, that kind of peoples would buy it..

For my self i would invest in better electronics.. For example MC501

Greetings

Darko

p.s. Sorry for a long post
p.p.s. Also we compared SSP-800 vs my Denon 3808.. Yes, the difference is very big Another better money to spend then to upgrade from S to D speakers

[AV-OCD]

Tim,

Did you find the 805D sounded anything like the signature diamond you referenced listening to at another time?

I just stopped by my dealer today hoping to see some of the new diamonds, but he has not got them in yet. I am really interested in hearing the 805D..

In general, yes. The details get lost pretty easily when comparing speakers listened to over a year apart, but I remember several key traits about the Sig Diamonds that were shared by the 805Dis--both sounded nicely balanced from bass to treble, both have exceptional detail and both have much fuller bass than one would expect from a single 6.5" driver, though the Sigs reached a bit lower.

Unfortunately, when I listened to the 805Di's recently, the dealer had them too close together, so I couldn't get the full feel for what they can do soundstage-wise.

[specialized]

I'm done explaining myself. Back to the topic at hand.

I dont want to be rude or something.. But if u dont own u'r speakers for at least few months and had a chance to experiment, maybe u never listen u'r speakers as they should.. It took maybe more then year to find perfect spot for my 803S and to match them properly to electronics (this quest is still not finished). Also if always change u'r equipment u dont listen u'r music with emotion which is need to find out do u enjoy or not some equipment. When i have to decide about some equipment in few days, i find out that im not relaxed enough to feel the music properly.

Also im interested based on u'r post that 805D is not big difference compared to 802D, what kind of music u listen in that comparation? To be able to notice some improvement or difference i guess u have some reference CD which u know very good.. What is u'r reference CD which u use to compare equipment? I found very very big difference between 805S and 803 S (u can read my previous post in the thread), and also 802D sound different (much bigger), which is too bad not suited for my room size (but in perfect room for them they definitly sound better then 803S in perfect room for them).


Greetings

Darko

[chjo100]

I dont want to be rude or something.. But if u dont own u'r speakers for at least few months and had a chance to experiment, maybe u never listen u'r speakers as they should.. It took maybe more then year to find perfect spot for my 803S and to match them properly to electronics (this quest is still not finished). Also if always change u'r equipment u dont listen u'r music with emotion which is need to find out do u enjoy or not some equipment. When i have to decide about some equipment in few days, i find out that im not relaxed enough to feel the music properly.

Also im interested based on u'r post that 805D is not big difference compared to 802D, what kind of music u listen in that comparation? To be able to notice some improvement or difference i guess u have some reference CD which u know very good.. What is u'r reference CD which u use to compare equipment? I found very very big difference between 805S and 803 S (u can read my previous post in the thread), and also 802D sound different (much bigger), which is too bad not suited for my room size (but in perfect room for them they definitly sound better then 803S in perfect room for them).


Greetings

Darko

I actually heard the exact setup AV-OCD heard at the same location. I will say comparison must be difficult since the 802di was placed in a much larger dedicated room connected to top of the line Audio Research tube gear. Meanwhile the 805di was in a room meant to replicate a family room and was on a sidewall connected to a modest Rotel integrated setup. I personally felt the 802di was a significant step up from the 805di. However, I can completely understand AV-OCD's sentiments. I was shocked at how good the 805di's were. There's not much I could fault about the sound and I was very impressed at the clarity and smoothness in sound. I immediately wondered how it would sound connected to the same equipment the 802di's were hooked up to. I also would have liked to hear them with more distance between them as they seem somewhat close together. I can imagine if they were crossed over to a nice sub, it would take them to the next level. I'm not going to replace my speakers anytime soon, but coming from someone who was never a B&W fan, consider me a convert.

[AV-OCD]

Yes, chjo, while the level of improvement of the 802Di over the 805Di is a matter of personal opinion, I doubt that anyone would say that the 805Di sounds subpar in comparison. And who knows how much the gap would have closed with a better positioning, better front end gear and a sub in the mix. Even without these optimizations, as you said, it is surprising how good the 805Di's sound. And you are the third person to tell me that they were not a fan of B&W before the release of the 800 Diamond series.

[emig5m]

Im reading whole thread and decide to reply right now.. Im owning B&W 803s, HTM3S and 805S, driven by McIntosh C2300 Preamp, Denon 3808 for surround duties and Rotel RB-1080 (One Rotel per speaker BiAmped for the fronts), and third Rotel RB-1080 on channel for the center, one for 805S, and second 805S driven by Denon 3808. Also im using Mordaunt Short Sub.

Also my very close friend have 803D for the fronts, HTM3S, and 805S for the rears, also driven by Rotel RB-1080 (Also biamped one per speaker), he have two Subs B&W ASW 800 (diagonaly located in his room), and as Preamp/Surround duties he use Classe SSP-800.. We have a lot of listening sessions at my place and also at his place..

What we found out:

1. We cant notice difference between Diamond tweeters and S tweeters (we got much more improvement in highs when we tried McIntosh MC501 compared to Rotels then D vs S).

2. Instead of my 805S i wanted 804S (for a perfect match to my fronts). But there was not any more on stock so i decide to get 805S (just before new series come out, becouse there is no chance for me to spend 5000 USD or EUR for a pair of 805).

Based on reading on this thread i compared 805S vs 803S in my setup.. There is no chance for 805S. 803S have much clear sound, also sound is more holographic and more 3D, and music envelope around u. 805S is not a bad speaker at all (when i purchased 803s i have similar test and difference was so big even then even when i didnt have McIntosh and BiAmped Rotels).
I guess the same is in the new series.. The biggest difference u have on parts with a lot of dinamics and a lot of instruments. To compare 805D against 802D is a bit too enthusiastic Also it's very important the size of the room.. In room where 805D would sound perfectly 802D would sound boomy and muddy.. And where 802D shine, 805D would be very thin sounding.. Anyway, definitly FST speakers are much better then non fst in same series, so im sure 805D dont have any chance against 802D, 803D and maybe even 804D. Another thing, i never success to integrate sub that good to be comparable to bigger size speaker, so when i listen music i dont use SUb at all.. Even for concerts i prefer bass that i got from my speakers. I use sub only for movies.. My first idea was to get 805S and to buy subs, but midrange was much better on 803S, and i never succeed to integrate sub that good with 805S that always at the end i prefer sound of 805S without sub. When i switched again on 803 there was no need for a dilema at all

About electronics.. AS i said i own Denon 3808 receiver. If i connect speakers on Denon and compare them, yes then difference it's not that big between 805s and 803S. But.. It lack a lot.. U dont listen speaker like u should.. As i put better electronics, difference it's bigger and bigger, and also sound better and better..

My opinion is that new series is just marketing and dont excuse such a price increment. U'll say that on 802D and 803D there is not so much price increment.. But if u count in percent i think still is a lot of money.. And biggest price jump is in 805D, and u say a lot of improvements came.. I think again.. Marketing. B&W know that the cheapest speakers in 800 series is the one that they sell the most, so biggest price difference is here (B&W would sell much more 805D then 802D), so the biggest marketing hype is here..

There is a lot of peoples in the world that buy things based on marketing and reviews.. For some is enough to buy "800 series speaker", just for show up.. Some of them would just buy without listening.. And becouse 805D is cheapest from the line, that kind of peoples would buy it..

For my self i would invest in better electronics.. For example MC501

Greetings

Darko

p.s. Sorry for a long post
p.p.s. Also we compared SSP-800 vs my Denon 3808.. Yes, the difference is very big Another better money to spend then to upgrade from S to D speakers

My same exact experience with the 600 series is that the speaker with the FST mid had superior midrange performance. They're noticeably more open, clear, and as someone else once explained it- milky smooth. Now I don't yet have the 805S to directly compare to my 804S like I did to my 683 and 685, but I'll hopefully have a pair sometime this summer to replace my 685 surround speakers. But I'm just going to assume it's going to be the same experience I had with the 600 series that the 3-way with the FST mid is going to have more open and detailed mids that's easy to notice swapping speakers back and forth in the same system. I also tested crossing over to a sub just to try to keep the bass more on a even playing field..... there's no doubt about it that even if you can integrate a sub for both speakers, the tower with the FST mid still wins hands down no contest.

One thing I disagree with is that you don't need anything high end for electronics to notice the difference in speakers (was using a Yamaha AVR). My 804S & HTM3S sound fantastic with using a ho-hum Yamaha as a pre/pro. They didn't sound magically any better at the dealer running Conrad Johnson's latest high end gear - in fact, after months of tweaking, IMO my system sounds far superior than the B&W dealers system running high end electronics. My friends seem to agree.

Luckily for me I had a goal I wanted to achieve (which I really didn't think was even possible for a loudspeaker system) and I met that goal with ease, so no upgrading my "S" 800's. I just want to get the matching bookshelfs to my other 800 series to replace my 600 series in the rear surround channels and call it a day.

I would like to believe all these guys that say the 800 series bookshelf isn't the same as the 600 series bookshelf as to where the FST midded speakers are easily superior. But until I have the 805S and experience it for myself, I'm remaining skeptical about it and believing the FST midded speaker will still remain superior. There's way too much conflicting info to draw reliable conclusions from other peoples experiences - almost zero consistency in opinions. Experiencing it for yourself is the only way to know for sure, lol. :lol:

[beden1]

One thing I disagree with is that you don't need anything high end for electronics to notice the difference in speakers (was using a Yamaha AVR). My 804S & HTM3S sound fantastic with using a ho-hum Yamaha as a pre/pro. They didn't sound magically any better at the dealer running Conrad Johnson's latest high end gear - in fact, after months of tweaking, IMO my system sounds far superior than the B&W dealers system running high end electronics. My friends seem to agree.Luckily for me I had a goal I wanted to achieve (which I really didn't think was even possible for a loudspeaker system) and I met that goal with ease, so no upgrading my "S" 800's. I just want to get the matching bookshelfs to my other 800 series to replace my 600 series in the rear surround channels and call it a day.
:lol:

I definitely agree with you on your thoughts about the speakers with the FST mid, but, the diamond series speakers definitely improve with better electronics(components). It was no small increase in overall quality when I upgraded from my Pioneer Elite receiver to the Classe SSP-800 and amps.

I was able to save some money by buying used amps. :B

I actually like my Pioneer Elite receiver and use it now in another HT system, and I wish I didn't have to spend the money on better electronics for my 803Ds, but they now sound great! :T

[stuofsci02]

In general, yes. The details get lost pretty easily when comparing speakers listened to over a year apart, but I remember several key traits about the Sig Diamonds that were shared by the 805Dis--both sounded nicely balanced from bass to treble, both have exceptional detail and both have much fuller bass than one would expect from a single 6.5" driver, though the Sigs reached a bit lower.

Unfortunately, when I listened to the 805Di's recently, the dealer had them too close together, so I couldn't get the full feel for what they can do soundstage-wise.

Thanks for the info.. I agree it is tough to tell listening even hours apart let alone years...

[Ken49r]

I definitely agree with you on your thoughts about the speakers with the FST mid, but, the diamond series speakers definitely improve with better electronics(components). It was no small increase in overall quality when I upgraded from my Pioneer Elite receiver to the Classe SSP-800 and amps.

I was able to save some money by buying used amps. :B

I actually like my Pioneer Elite receiver and use it now in another HT system, and I wish I didn't have to spend the money on better electronics for my 803Ds, but they now sound great! :T

I have to agree with beden1 on this as well. The sound quality of my 805's improved significantly from an ONKYO AVR to ROTEL RSP-1069 / RMB-1095 upgrade. But my goal is to hear my 805's sound as good as in the dealers showroom running on all McIntosh gear. The difference between McIntosh over ROTEL isn't slight at all.
Good speakers will still sound like good speakers on ho-hum gear but they were not designed to be run that way. A race car is built with high performance parts all the way up the chain.

Edit: I should also add that I like the sound of floorstanders over bookshelves. I bought the 805's due to $ and room size but when I went from 705 to the 704 that added woofer gave the upper and mid bass punch & slam effect that a sub can't produce. And I am using JL Auido F-110 with my 805's now.

[Relentless]

Good speakers will still sound like good speakers on ho-hum gear but they were not designed to be run that way. A race car is built with high performance parts all the way up the chain.

A system like a race car is only as good as its weakest link. On the other hand if your system sounds good to you the weakest link may be a persons inability to forget about what others said and just enjoy what you have. Crap still off of the subject.... cant help myself, I am weak.

[AV-OCD]

Edit: I should also add that I like the sound of floorstanders over bookshelves. I bought the 805's due to $ and room size but when I went from 705 to the 704 that added woofer gave the upper and mid bass punch & slam effect that a sub can't produce. And I am using JL Auido F-110 with my 805's now.

You may need to continue working on your sub set-up/integration. I get plenty of punch/slam from my JL F112, but it took a while to get there, and it required EQ.