N805 Center Channel

[skavan]

Hi all,

A convoluted question (well, 2 questions) for the experts out there...

I have a pair of N805's (not the S's).
I need a center channel to mate with them BUT I am space constrained. The Center Channel can be no more than 7" high and 22" wide.

Q1. What center speaker would one recommend given the above constraints rule out the HTM's...

Q2. What amp/receiver would people recommend to get the maximum pleasure out the of the N805's in dual use as a movie and music setup.

Thanks.

[ZX10 Guy]

With those space constraints, you're better off not putting in a center and just running a phantom center via your surround processor.

[audioqueso]

Q1. What center speaker would one recommend given the above constraints rule out the HTM's...

I agree with ZX10 Guy. I've tried 600 series, M series, FPM series... and close as they can come to being good for surrounds, the treble does not match my N805s close enough to be a good center channel replacement. I really would recommend creating a phantom center instead with just your N805s.

Q2. What amp/receiver would people recommend to get the maximum pleasure out the of the N805's in dual use as a movie and music setup.

What's your price range? What components and source are you using now?

[emig5m]

I tried using a phantom center with my 683's and it sounded real funky. Like fake surround from 2-channel that has that annoying fake reverb effect like something was out of time. Also the vocals weren't very clear. Switching back to using my center channel (the infamous HTM61) everything returned back to clear and in-sync sounding with no unnatural reverb/out of phase effect and low and unclear vocals.

You might want to see how good of a job your processor does at re-mixing the center to your front mains before you commit to this configuration. Mine just flat out sucks in comparison to using the proper center channel (even though the center I'm using is lowly regarded around these parts). Then again, how would you know how good of a job it does if you don't have the matching center to compare to using to the proper way....

[audioqueso]

Oh, I didn't mean using any processing from your amp/pre-amp. I meant positioning your speakers and angling them so that it creates a perfect balanced image in between your left and right. I did use my N805 before creating a balanced L/C/R frontstage. So it is possible. When I added the HTM2 center channel, sometimes the dialog was only a bit different compared to the phantom center that was previously used. The biggest difference came in when there was a lot of action and panning. But for regular dialog, it can be done.

[emig5m]

Oh, I didn't mean using any processing from your amp/pre-amp. I meant positioning your speakers and angling them so that it creates a perfect balanced image in between your left and right. I did use my N805 before creating a balanced L/C/R frontstage. So it is possible. When I added the HTM2 center channel, sometimes the dialog was only a bit different compared to the phantom center that was previously used. The biggest difference came in when there was a lot of action and panning. But for regular dialog, it can be done.

How do you redirect a discreet center channel from the center channel to the two front mains without processing?

[audioqueso]

How do you redirect a discreet center channel from the center channel to the two front mains without processing?

You don't. Let me tell you what I did.
I had an Oppo DVD player. Then a Marantz DVD player. On both DVD players, I had set up to use only 2ch PCM. Send it via HDMI to my Marantz receiver, which just had left and right speakers on. I didn't configure anything on the receiver to down-mix or anything. The only thing I did was configure the DVD player to use only left and right.
So when I played movies, the dialog came in nicely balanced and centered. It's nothing special. It's just like aligning and toeing in your speakers with music so that the singer sounds like they are right there in front of you.

[audioqueso]

I think what you are talking about, Emig5m, was using some processing on a receiver/pre-amp to downmix L/C/R to only two channels, but that's not what I was referring to. I've never tried that. I just set the DVD players to 2ch PCM.

[emig5m]

I think what you are talking about, Emig5m, was using some processing on a receiver/pre-amp to downmix L/C/R to only two channels, but that's not what I was referring to. I've never tried that. I just set the DVD players to 2ch PCM.

Ahhh I see says the blind man with a speaker for a head, hehe. Yea I thought when people said to use a phantom center that meant in a full surround system minus a physical center channel and just setting your processor to 'no center' so it re-processed all center info into your mains which on my Yamaha doesn't do so good of a job. Maybe I can try doing it through my HDAV 1.3 soundcard because to my ears my HDAV does better sounding decoding then the Yamaha (BluRay HD sound is much clearer with my soundcard doing the decoding and passing along multichannel PCM over HDMI than bitstreaming and letting the Yammie decode).

[audioqueso]

Ahhh I see says the blind man with a speaker for a head, hehe.

Yeah... basically what happened is that I let my 805s make sweet love to my ears everyday... somewhere along the line they inseminated my head, and now I have an 805 as a head. :B :B :B

Yea I thought when people said to use a phantom center that meant in a full surround system minus a physical center channel and just setting your processor to 'no center' so it re-processed all center info into your mains which on my Yamaha doesn't do so good of a job.

That is what I'm talking about. Except I'm talking about changing the DVD player to 2ch PCM. I don't mean send a full 5.1/7.1 signal from the DVD player, and then let the receiver/pre-amp downmix to two front channels. I don't suggest that because one can't be sure what exactly the processor on the receiver/pre-amp is doing in that situation. You'd have to ask the engineers of the receiver/pre-amp. Does your pre-amp ignore the signal, try to redirect it to the left, right split, or does it just send the center signal to both speakers? One wouldn't know unless you ask the manufacture. But from the source it's different.

For example, take the PS3. If you set 7.1 output via HDMI, plug it into a pre-amp and turn off center channel, you wouldn't hear the dialog. I know, I've tried it. Set 7.1 and plug it into a tv... no main dialog. Why? Because the source decoding it is sending out a center channel signal, and the end component has no center. At the same time, if I set 2.1 on the PS3, and hook it up to a pre-amp with all speakers turned on 5.1/7.1, even though the center is plugged in, the PS3 is only sending a left/right signal. And so when I watch a movie, positioned correctly, the dialog comes out centered pretty clear. That's why I'm saying, you can't be sure what exactly your Yamaha is REALLY doing with the center channel signal; ignoring it, splitting it, or send the full signal to both left and right.

Maybe I can try doing it through my HDAV 1.3 soundcard because to my ears my HDAV does better sounding decoding then the Yamaha (BluRay HD sound is much clearer with my soundcard doing the decoding and passing along multichannel PCM over HDMI than bitstreaming and letting the Yammie decode).

Wow, that's a pretty nice soundcard if it sounds to you like it's decoding better than the Yamaha! I've heard a lot of good things from it. I'm still waiting for my new soundcard to come in.