Which SUBs for 800D/HTM1D based system?

[JargonGR]

Hi,

My system consists of B&W 800Ds L&R, HTM1D, 803Ds surrounds and in the future, possibly a pair of 802Ds or another pair of 803Ds for 7.1 sound.

Yet, all this time I have been using an PWS 3500 KEF subwoofer from my previous system but it is not that capable compared to the speakers and I also decided to go for two subs. For EQ I already have the SMS-1 from Velo.

After some research, I concluded that 2X SVS PB13-Ultras are the best value for money when it comes to subs, but I am having doubts regarding their music playing capabilities although I ma getting more than enough bass to shake my seat from the 800Ds already.

What other alternatives would you consider? Somebody suggested that I look at Earthquake as a better than SVS alternative....is that so?

Finally, my AVR is an Onkyo 905 and I have the chance of selling it right now and opt for a Denon AVP-A1HD (or other) and this got me thinking. What would give me the biggest difference in sound quality so I could upgrade first, a new Pre-Pro or the two subs?

Decisions...decisions..

[Tommy]

Take a look at JL Audio. Their subs are fast and musical. They also have room correction program built in.

[htsteve]

JargonGR,

I would advise to look at any sub that has the room correcting feature. It it invaluable in a high perofrmance system. I know the Velodyne has it built in. JL Audio and I've seen an external unit from SVS. There are probably others.

I have the Velodyne DD18. It is awesome in my room. A couple of months ago, I added some acoustic treatments to my HT room. Hook up the Velodyne and reran the equalization. I ended up turning the sub 90 degrees, but this allowed me to recalibrate it. It's now +- 1DB from 15 to 80 Hz. Wonderful.



Hope this helps.

[Mark-n-b]

Great question.

Have you not considered the ASW855 - very musical

In any case the AVP is a reference unit - do not under estimate it. Transparency, is the key word – if anything - smooth, but powerful. Not the normal “warm” Denon sound but more clean. That is the best way to describe it. The avp has correction built in.

[RNKC]

I just posted a review for the ASW855. I highly recommend that unit as I think it would integrate neatly with the rest of your present and future system.

[wettou]

Hi, My system consists of B&W 800Ds L&R, HTM1D, 803Ds surrounds and in the future, possibly a pair of 802Ds or another pair of 803Ds for 7.1 sound. I ma getting more than enough bass to shake my seat from the 800Ds already. .

Get yourself a Classé SSP-800 and some good amps rather than subs with 800D you don't need any subs, unless you want the Gotham from JL Audio:B

800D + 802D +803D very nice 7

[JargonGR]

I am running my 800Ds with Electrocompaniet NEMOS AW600 and my HTM1D with a Bryston 14BSST. I will get another pair of NEMOs, since one is bad investment, so I can either use it for bi-amp sessions on the 800Ds or as a monoblock for the the HTM1D. The Bryston will be moved at the surrounds till I am able to get more monoblocks from EC.

I will try to audition the Classe at home when it is time...

[jericho]

ASW 825
Got the same setup and three subs, prefer the asw 825 above the two asw855's

[Relentless]

Since you have a SMS, I would not hesitate to pick up a pair of JL F113's right now that the prices have dropped so much on them. I cant say this for music but they are one of the best HT subs I have heard. If you have 800D's you wont need them for music anyways.

[JargonGR]

It is true that I do not wish to have any further bass for music with the 800Ds since they produce more than enough. Yet, I am not a church organ lover either and in the rare occasions that I might try it I can then turn whatever subs I have on.

Regarding the JL Labs f113s it is now a good chance for me to get them since the dollar is down too compared to the Euro.

Where can one order JL subs in Europe?

[htsteve]

JargonGR,

Oops, I missed that you already have the SMS-1. A very good tool. This opens up the posibilities for subs.

My dealer sells the JL audio subs. These are very nice. If the dollar is down vs. the Euro, then it might be a good time to get one.

Hopefully, someone from Europe will chime in on where these are available there.

[nikos]

JargonGR,

I am not sure you'll find one in Europe.
I did however inquire to JLAudio a while back about the power conversion and there
is someone in the US that sells the european model. (you cannot open this sub to modify the power as easily as other subs, it needs a very long special screwdriver for the right amount of torque etc.)
I looked here at work and did not find the info or his contact. I'll look again at home.

You can simply send an email to jlaudio and they can point you in the right direction.

I love mine! It has the US power plug and I'm going to run with a power inverter in Greece.... and take my chances...

One side note you may not be able to benefit from the very good slightly used ones that are available in US power spec unless you'd be willing to power convert, which i do not suggest if you can afford to avoid.

Nikos

[Maverick71]

It is true that I do not wish to have any further bass for music with the 800Ds since they produce more than enough. Yet, I am not a church organ lover either and in the rare occasions that I might try it I can then turn whatever subs I have on.

Regarding the JL Labs f113s it is now a good chance for me to get them since the dollar is down too compared to the Euro.

Where can one order JL subs in Europe?

I bought my Fathom 112 from www.soundoctor.com. I think its the only authorized dealer to sell to Europe. Barry Ober, the company owner, is a top guy and will help you and advise you whenever necessary. Highly recommended.

Mav

[Dmantis]

Musical subs are hard to come by. Not many do it right. Most go into distortion well before there Audio range and it makes good HT bass but terrible 2 channel bass.
Not getting a sub to perform the Depth charge scene and play Classical is extremly difficult. I will say you will have to give in here and there to get what is more important to you.

Considering your system, I don't remember reading anything about placement abilities or your room layout . These are very important factors when selecting a new sub. Also consider 2 subs. 2 subs will fill a room better then 1 larger sub. Even bass is key here not to mention you don't have to load a sub up and fill a room. Directional comes into play here.

Rel is a sub company that can do both well, music first then theater. If this is your game then Rel has something for you. Not to mention Rel subs blend with most speaekrs seamlessly.

Paradigm also makes nice double duty subs in the Sub 15 and Sub 25. Room acoustic system works excellent.

B&W also makes very nice sounding subs but again music first. Theater is a trade off but does the Depth charge scene pretty good.

Def Tech Trinity is one fantastic sub. I suggest using 2 of any of the above subs for better coverage. One is tricky to get right. 2 is also hard but the end results are so much more pleasing.

Dan

[wettou]

Musical subs are hard to come by. Not many do it right.

With 800D forget subs, just go with 5 800D and five CAM400 :T

[JargonGR]

Easier said than done going with 5 800Ds and same class amps. At the moment I only need the subs for movies and that would not cost more than 3600-5000 Euro depending on the subs I go for.

Yet, the upgrade plan in general includes an extra Electrocompaniet NEMO so I have the same amps for the 3 Front channels since now my HTM1D is powered by a Bryston 14BSST. Additionally I want an extra pair of speakers for 7.1 and those could be either 803Ds or 802Ds. If I go for 802Ds I will move my 803Ds at the rear.

Finally, since my only pre-amp is an ONkyo 905 I need to look into this as well and it will probably be the next thing after the subs.

Regarding the placement of the subs (I will go for two) there are unfortunately only two spots to fit them on the left and right of the center channel (HTM1D) and in between the 800Ds. Given that, I will rely on EQ (my Velo SMS-1) should I come into frequency issues.

[SoundEngine355]

Given the drivers in the 800D I would recommend at least a 15" subwoofer to add extra depth. Velodyne DD15 or DD18 would do.

SVS PB13 Ultra is good, I tested it for 2 weeks before I purchased the Velodyne DD15.

[gross30]

I second that, even though my N-800's are not the diamond series, I use (2) Velodyne DD 15's, and they integrated very nicely. Oh yeah, and the sound.....I enjoy every minute of the music.

[JargonGR]

Hold on a sec, the PB13-Ultra beats even the DD18 acoording to all tests and users in AVS, how comes you prefer it to the less powerfull DD15? Yet, there are even more subs that beat the "aging" DD18 and when I asked at the sub forum at AVS the DD18 was at the bottom of the recommendation list.

I am interested to know what exactly made you prefer the DD15 to the PB13 Ultra? Please not that I will only be using it for movies.

Yet, did anyone have any experience with Earthquake Supernova MKIV 15"???? It is supposed to be even stronger and goes down to 14Hz...

[nikos]

I bought my Fathom 112 from www.soundoctor.com. I think its the only authorized dealer to sell to Europe. Barry Ober, the company owner, is a top guy and will help you and advise you whenever necessary. Highly recommended.

Mav

This is the same guy I was referencing. Top guy indeed!!!

Also... I have not kept up with the AVS sub forum... however if size is not an issue there might be plenty of options that move air and shake the foundation.

Even though you have 800Ds I think once you have the subs you will be using them for music also I obviously can be wrong...
For a sealed, compact top notch performer I'm not sure the JL F113 has been beat yet.

Good luck!

N

PS: I just read your note about the SVS... I personally prefer the tightness of a sealed sub compared to the PB13-Ultra. PB13 might be the best value...however you have not designed your system with "value" being top priority.

[JargonGR]

Regarding the F113 I doubt there is anything better at this size indeed and I am seriously considering the saved space as well. The problem is I have not heard either and I only rely on user opinions. I prefer tight bass too and by this I mean that I do not want any kind of bass in the likes of Klipsch for example.

One major detail I forgot to mention is the room size. The subs will be placed in the living room but at a part of it that measures 9m X 4.85m and around 4-5m high ceiling (inclined). Yet this part of the room is open (5m opening) to the rest of the living room and kitchen (which is also open to another part) which is 4 times bigger and with the same high ceiling.

In other words I have a big room and although the HC is surrounded by walls there are openings everywhere, so output is critical.

[SRT-10 Viper]

I have 800Ds, HTM1D, and 802Ns in the rear. I originally had a Velodyne DD18 and moved to a JL F113... I liked the JL so much I purchased a second one. Works great with music (however not really neeeded with 800Ds). HT shakes the house.

[JargonGR]

Ok update!

I decided to go with two subs instead of one. I decided to go with custom subs (matched pair) that are derived from prototypes (atm) and will have more info (and maybe pics) in about a month. Some preliminary info is that they will be matched to my 800Ds colour wise, their design will be very special, they will be passive (ext amp) and they will consist of (prob) 4 15" drivers - two per pair, they will cost me the same as two JL F113 but brutaly outperform them (I hope).


More when the deal is done!

[crytklmass]

I would strongly consider the ASW855. I own the same with my B&W setup and it integrates awesome. More than enough bass for movies, music, etc. Probably TOO much for me, but I would rather have spare bass than not enough.