802 Nautilus vrs 802D?

[Lewisimo]

I have been looking at some used 802 but noticed the Nautilus is the earlier model. Can anyone shed some light on their differences, how they sound etc. You can pick up the early one's for a fairly good price these days, considering the 802D's are £7800 here in the UK still!! Nuts!

[sikoniko]

I have been looking at some used 802 but noticed the Nautilus is the earlier model. Can anyone shed some light on their differences, how they sound etc. You can pick up the early one's for a fairly good price these days, considering the 802D's are £7800 here in the UK still!! Nuts!

Its up to you to justify the expense and which on you prefer. Neither are bad speakers, and just because the 802D is out, doesn't make me enjoy my 802N less.

I will say the 802D is more natural, transparent and detailed sounding. the 802N can sound a little forward at times, and slightly harsh. The trick is, if you want the 802N, don't listen to the 802D and you will never know the difference, and you will enjoy a great speaker. Sometimes ignorance is bliss! :T

[Lewisimo]

Lol, good answer there! :P Thanks!

[Race Car Driver]

Id buy four N802s vs two 802Ds. But thats just me.

Even more so I would buy a pair of N800s vs a pair of 802Ds, but I reallllly want a pair of 800s.

[sikoniko]

Id buy four N802s vs two 802Ds. But thats just me.

Even more so I would buy a pair of N800s vs a pair of 802Ds, but I reallllly want a pair of 800s.

on what basis? price or audio quality?

I personally don't see any point in upgrading to the 802D from the 802N, unless I got a really good deal. It is a better speaker, but for me, the real upgrade would be to the 800D.

[Race Car Driver]

For me, it would be price. I dont have the money to spend 10k on a pair of speakers. The reason I dont have a pair of 800s.

I am really into HT, and I would rather spend 4-5K on a pair of N802s, and more on some more N speakers for an awesome HT system, than have just two 802Ds.

Really, I suppose I would rather spend $280 on a pair of N802s.... but thats another story.

[MikeFL52]

I am going to give a differing opinion to those given here. I think the diamond tweeter and redesigned cross-over give the 802Ds a significant advantage over the N802s in terms of sound and therefore given the choice I would always choose the 802Ds in this comparison because I will always be niggled by the question of the diamond tweeter.

Now the 802Ds were really pushing the limit for me when I upgraded from my N804s and therefore after auditioning both the 803D and 802D extensively, I made the compromise of going for the 803D. No it doesn't have the form factor of the 802D, but IMHO it offered 95% of the performance for 66% of the price and so that was the compromise I made.

[Gremal]

I upgraded to the 802D from the N802 about a year ago by selling my N802 for about $4400 and found the 802D on ebay from a reputable dealer for about $8800. For me it was a no-brainer. It's not just that the diamond tweeter was that much better--it is. But it's more about the new crossovers that allow better top to bottom integration, and the bass is on another level. Heck, the entire dynamic range is on another level. I know this is not what you wanted to hear.

I do disagree with Mike regarding the 803D being anywhere near 90% of what the 802D delivers. The resolving power of the elliptical tweeter-midrange structure is significantly greater. You end up with better treble extension and more convincing midrange and midbass presence as well. But in the land of diminishing returns we all have to justify our $$$s spent and everyone's different.

[wettou]

802D rule and are a lot better than the 802N, I have both so I can compare directly without any bias. I am a big multichannel SACD aficionado so for me having five 802 was important and the three 802D are a blast.

I was lucky enough to get an unheard discount from an authorized dealer who is now out of business due to the economy.

Like all of you I dislike paying full price especially since I know the margins 40 points minimum 8O

[SRT-10 Viper]

wetto, let's see the setup... Any pictures? I'd like to see how you fit the center speaker under your front screen.

[sikoniko]

Well, I would never say that the 802D is not better than the 802N. I would say that IMO, the 802N is better than the 803D though. But, for different reasons. I believe that the 803D still sounds like a box speaker, whereas the 802N has better imaging and soundstage.

The question ultimately comes down to budget and what compromises need to be made. Only the purchaser can decide where to make those compromises. I would choose the 802N and better electronics over the 802D and lesser electronics any day of the week. Then again, it depends on long-term plans and step-up policy.

[wettou]

wetto, let's see the setup... Any pictures? I'd like to see how you fit the center speaker under your front screen.

Sure I will take a few pictures :B

[wettou]

The question ultimately comes down to budget and what compromises need to be made. Only the purchaser can decide where to make those compromises. I would choose the 802N and better electronics over the 802D and lesser electronics any day of the week. Then again, it depends on long-term plans and step-up policy.

So would I, except I would rather get 802D and then at a later stage when finace permit upgrade electronics. Or try Emotiva, I am burning to do so, but would be worried that their monoblock is as good or better than Classé and then I start crying for wasting all this money....

[dknightd]

wettou. Try the emotiva. It costs you nothing, or just shipping, if you don't like it. If you like it as much as the Classe stuff, you can sell and have money in your pocket. Your dying to try - so try - and let us know what you find out.

[Gremal]

I would choose the 802N and better electronics over the 802D and lesser electronics any day of the week. Then again, it depends on long-term plans and step-up policy.

But the 802D does have better electronics internally--the crossover and driver integration is superior.

[sikoniko]

But the 802D does have better electronics internally--the crossover and driver integration is superior.

again, we are getting into individual preference. In my situation, I can't justify switching from the 802N to the 802D. Is there a difference? yes. enough to justify the cost? not to me. IMO, after doing a proper A/B against the 800D, I wouldn't be satisfied with the 802D.

If I was to spend the money to upgrade my system, I'd go 800D or stay with what I have. Since I can't afford the leap, I'm happy with what I have.

Just because the 802D is out, does not make the 802N a bad speaker. There is always something newer and better.

So, for me to make a recommendation, I would say: if your dealer is giving you a great deal on 802D's, and possibly demo's, then either go for the 802N and get better electronics, or hold out for the 800D's.

Keep in mind I have always loved the 802 speakers, from the matrix series one up. This isn't a hasty judgement call. Just my opinion based on my own observations.

Ultimately, I don't think any of us can make a good recommendation without knowing the full budget and the associated electronics the OP is keeping and looking to replace. Also, the 802D might be a better choice if the dealer honer the 1-year trade-up policy. There are a number of factors that we don't have enough information to base a good opinion on.

[Greg Gale]

I own the N802 and I disagree that the speakers can sound harsh. If they sound harsh this has to do with the electronics you are driving them with. While I do agree the 802D sound smoother overall than the N802, I would not characterize them as being even slightly harsh.

[sikoniko]

I own the N802 and I disagree that the speakers can sound harsh. If they sound harsh this has to do with the electronics you are driving them with. While I do agree the 802D sound smoother overall than the N802, I would not characterize them as being even slightly harsh.

If you put the N802 and the 802D together and did an A/B, how would you describe the differences?

I find the 802D transparent and natural while I find the 802N slightly forward. The 802D disappears more while the N802 has more presence.

[Greg Gale]

If you put the N802 and the 802D together and did an A/B, how would you describe the differences?

I find the 802D transparent and natural while I find the 802N slightly forward. The 802D disappears more while the N802 has more presence.

It is interesting that you mention that the 802N has more presence as this was a comment made by Paul Messenger who reviewed the 802D in HI FI Choice magazine who felt the cons of the 802D were, "Bass a little heavy, upper middle a little strong, and presence zone slightly weak". On the other hand, he felt, on the Pro side, the 802D has "sweet treble, superb timing and vibrant dynamic expression". The measurements of the N802 from previous reviews had a more even frequency response and did not show any depression in the presence zone which is a reason they have "more presence". Whether this is good or bad depends on the listener and what they like.

In regards to my impression, during my audition I did not notice them being bass heavy although a number of reviewers including Kal Rubinson commented on thier "ripe bass" which also is clear in the freqency measurements done by JA.

The midrange and tweeter is where where I have noticed an improvement where they seem to be more three dimensional and the treble seems smoother and more extended overall.

I have been debating whether or not I want to move up to the 802D's and have listened to them many times and when I think about the cost difference which is almost double what I paid for my N802's when I purchased them brand new I have difficulty justifying the expenditure. I have recently listened to the new Dynaudio Shapphire at a presentation in the Chicagoland area and my wife and I were quite impressed and is a possibliity I might consider when upgrading but I also have read rave reviews about the Revel Ultima Studio 2 which is in the same price range that I want to listen to and then decide whether or not I want to upgrade.

I have owned the N802's for 7 years and have noticed huge improvements in the sound quality when I have upgraded my source and then amplifier and finally pre-amp. At the end of the day I might just keep the N802's as they are the best value audio purchase I have ever made which has given me the most satisfaction. Also if I ever need to sell them I will recoup most of my cost as they hold their value better than any other loudspeaker I have seen sold on Audiogon.

[sikoniko]

It is interesting that you mention that the 802N has more presence as this was a comment made by Paul Messenger who reviewed the 802D in HI FI Choice magazine who felt the cons of the 802D were, "Bass a little heavy, upper middle a little strong, and presence zone slightly weak". On the other hand, he felt, on the Pro side, the 802D has "sweet treble, superb timing and vibrant dynamic expression". The measurements of the N802 from previous reviews had a more even frequency response and did not show any depression in the presence zone which is a reason they have "more presence". Whether this is good or bad depends on the listener and what they like.

In regards to my impression, during my audition I did not notice them being bass heavy although a number of reviewers including Kal Rubinson commented on thier "ripe bass" which also is clear in the freqency measurements done by JA.

The midrange and tweeter is where where I have noticed an improvement where they seem to be more three dimensional and the treble seems smoother and more extended overall.

I have been debating whether or not I want to move up to the 802D's and have listened to them many times and when I think about the cost difference which is almost double what I paid for my N802's when I purchased them brand new I have difficulty justifying the expenditure. I have recently listened to the new Dynaudio Shapphire at a presentation in the Chicagoland area and my wife and I were quite impressed and is a possibliity I might consider when upgrading but I also have read rave reviews about the Revel Ultima Studio 2 which is in the same price range that I want to listen to and then decide whether or not I want to upgrade.

I have owned the N802's for 7 years and have noticed huge improvements in the sound quality when I have upgraded my source and then amplifier and finally pre-amp. At the end of the day I might just keep the N802's as they are the best value audio purchase I have ever made which has given my the most satisfaction. Also if I ever need to sell them I will recoup most of my cost as they hold their value better than any other loudspeaker I have seen sold on Audiogon.

Very well written. I wish I was as eloquent as you at writing what I perceive.

Anyways, when I refer to presence, I relate it to the presence knob on my guitar amp and the change that occurs as it is increased. So, it's not something I can qualify really.

I heard the Sapphire at CES and I was very impressed. I usually think Dynaudio speakers are ugly, but the sapphire is really nice. It wouldn't work in my situation, because I don't think they have a matching center. It is really only meant for 2 channel.

I feel the same about my N802's as you do. One of the best investments in my system I have made. Thats why the only way I'd replace them would be to go 800D.

If you haven't done it yet, I recommend getting sound anchor stands for them. It really improves the bass and brings the tweeters and mids up to ear height for listening. A cheap, but worthy tweek.

[Greg Gale]

I am only into two channel so having a matching center would not matter to me. Yes the Sapphires do sound nice and are beautifully finished and arguably the best looking Dynaudio speaker ever produced after all this is the 30th anniversary edition that they will only product 1,000 pairs of which makes it even more intriguing to me; however with that said I need a speaker that will go down deep in the bass and the one negative in my perception is that the Sapphires will not go as deep in the lows as the N802 or 802D so if I ever do an upgrade I will still be looking at the 802D or the Revel Studio 2's. Just curious if you ever heard the Revels?

[Pedro]

Greg did you find the Sapphire bass, lighter than your N802?

[Greg Gale]

Greg did you find the Sapphire bass, lighter than your N802?

Yes at least in the room I was listening to them. Also if you look at JA's measurements of the low frequency response from the last Stereophile you can also see how the low frequencies start dropping rapidly at 50 Hz and at 30 Hz they are down by about 8 db where the 802D's are still flat at the 0 db level.

If I was going to purchase them I would need to audition them at my home with my electronics versus the $60K plus worth of electronics they had them hooked up with. The dealer is willing to do that but at this point I have not taken him up on the offer.

[Greg Gale]

Greg did you find the Sapphire bass, lighter than your N802?

Yes at least in the room I was listening to them. Also if you look at JA's measurements of the low frequency response from the last Stereophile you can also see how the low frequencies start dropping rapidly at 50 Hz and at 30 Hz they are down by about 8 db where the 802D's (and I believe the N802) are still flat at the 0 db level.

If I was going to purchase them I would need to audition them at my home with my electronics versus the $60K plus worth of electronics they had them hooked up with. The dealer is willing to do that but at this point I have not taken him up on the offer.

[wettou]

If you put the N802 and the 802D together and did an A/B, how would you describe the differences?

Well having the pleasure of owning both I can say that the 802D sound clearer than the 802N but hey match well in a 5.1 surround system :B