Is HTM61 as bad as this review indicates?

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  • emig5m
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2008
    • 646

    #46
    Originally posted by pixeljedi
    If reducing the lower frequencies made it sound better, you may also want to try increasing the crossover frequency for that channel on your receiver (assuming your receiver has that feature), to further reduce them.
    Yea, I can choose whatever crossover frequency I want. But when I tried crossing over with all speakers I thought it sounded much better (the system as a whole) with everything set to large/full range (even my rears which are 685's). There seemed to be something missing from some male voices and "ROARS" on the center when set to small, it just sounded a wee bit thin, but I guess it couldn't hurt to retry with just crossing over the center channel and leaving the rest set to large - using the full plugs and the natural roll off with them gets it pretty close for me.

    Last night when watching The Dark Knight I kept trying to convince myself that I'd like the sound and impact better without the plug like I do with the rest of the speakers but I kept putting it back in because of the muddiness with it out - plugging the port I could tell it got a little clearer and less muddy (I had it in and out about four times during the movie). I'll definitely try tweaking with different crossovers on the center next movie I watch.

    Comment

    • Ken49r
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2007
      • 312

      #47
      I'm curious if you guys have your center/HTM61 in an enclosed cabinet, on top of a rack but up against the back wall, or on a stand or something to where it has air all around it? I'm just wondering if "placement" is a contributing factor for the sound of the HTM61 as it is for L/R speakers?

      Comment

      • pixeljedi
        Member
        • Apr 2009
        • 38

        #48
        Originally posted by Ken49r
        I'm just wondering if "placement" is a contributing factor for the sound of the HTM61 as it is for L/R speakers?
        I didn't take it home to my set-up, but I can relay what the store set-up was like. The HTM61 was under a large lcd, on a stand with no cabinet surrounding it. There was about six inches separating it from the rack of gear behind it. We swapped it out for the CMC1 and the CMC2 during the test. The CM series was crystal clear throughout the tests, exhibiting none of the 'muddy' characteristics of the HTM61.

        We didn't drop a port plug in, mess with any crossover frequencies or move it further away from the rack behind it. That may have solved the issue, but oh well, I'm way too happy with the CMC2 to dwell on it

        Comment

        • Ken49r
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 312

          #49
          Originally posted by pixeljedi
          I didn't take it home to my set-up, but I can relay what the store set-up was like. The HTM61 was under a large lcd, on a stand with no cabinet surrounding it. There was about six inches separating it from the rack of gear behind it. We swapped it out for the CMC1 and the CMC2 during the test. The CM series was crystal clear throughout the tests, exhibiting none of the 'muddy' characteristics of the HTM61.

          We didn't drop a port plug in, mess with any crossover frequencies or move it further away from the rack behind it. That may have solved the issue, but oh well, I'm way too happy with the CMC2 to dwell on it
          Sounds like a good test since you were able to keep the system the same only swapping center speakers in the same position.

          Comment

          • ZX10 Guy
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2005
            • 198

            #50
            Here's a good article with test results as to why horizontal centers are not optimal:

            This article discusses performance tradeoffs of vertically vs horizontally mounted drivers in center channel speakers. We show how off-axis lobing can negatively affect performance of horizontal MTMs.

            Comment

            • JustinGN
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 105

              #51
              Yeah, based on the mixture of feedback here, I've decided to jump on the CM Centre, since it's the same price as the HTM61. I know pretty much any B&W Center is better than my Sony HTiB Center I use now, but I've never heard any criticism about B&W Speakers except this one. Strange, but I'd rather not take my chances, especially when the dealer doesn't keep the 600 series in stock.

              Glad this thread popped up when it did.

              Comment

              • timjclark
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2009
                • 104

                #52
                Based upon the lack of love for the HTM61/62's, can anyone comment on the performance of the LCR6/60/600's? I have DM-640's and am currently running an LCR3 as my center but it's not quite up to snuff with the 640's. I was thinking of an LCR6x or HTM62 instead, but now I'm not so sure based on this thread. Any input is appreciated.
                -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
                -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
                -Rotel: RSP-1069
                -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

                Office system:
                -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
                -B&W LM-1, AS-1

                Comment

                • stantheman2
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 124

                  #53
                  I beleive the reason the HTM 61 sounds "bad", "less open", etc. can be found on the B&W web site page with the specs of the dispersion characteristics. The drivers used have a reasonable dispersion on one axis and a very narrow dispeesion on the other axis. Even with same individual drivers used for the mains and the center channel, those drivers, when used in the horizontal center chanel configuration, do not have good horizontal disperson, thus the center sounds less significantly less open when you are seated even slightly off-axis. Turning the center channel vertical, as one previous poster did, improves the horizontal dispersion, but is not a practical solution for most setups. IMHO, B&W blew it with this specific speaker - they knew how 99% of the users would arrange the speaker, and still designed it with unacceptably narrow dispersion when used horizontally.

                  Comment

                  • emig5m
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 646

                    #54
                    Interesting... I think I'm going to modify my TV stand (that I build out of a aquarium stand, heh) to accommodate the HTM61 vertically. I assume you'll want to place it with the woofer at the bottom... But I normally set dead center in line with the center channel so maybe a waste of time for me? (it would mean I would have to relocate my sub too)

                    Comment

                    • Frank Helmling
                      Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 54

                      #55
                      Hi Guys,

                      Experienced this problem over where in Germany too! I drove the HTM61 together with a pair of 684's and the HTM61 sounded always like having a piece of cloth on it (if you know what I mean...). So I purchased a pair of 683's to match this center - which they don't! They are superb speakers though (concerning the price) and so I had to find a way to match the center to the rest (rears are a pair of DS7, subs are two ASW610 to control roominterferences and an IBEAM in the listening part of my couch.

                      I found out via trial and error that when I'm inserting the plug in the back hole (Hohoho :B ) cutting the center at 80 - 100hz setting the EQ to match the fronts while playing the center a little louder than the fronts and (most important) angle the HTM61 the way you can see at the photo, that it matches nearly perfect to the fronts. Test this first to believe me:
                      Just lean towards your center with your head not farer than 3ft from it and you will eperience superb match to the 683'!

                      Hope you understand "german English"
                      Attached Files
                      Greetz from Monnem (Mannheim)

                      Frank

                      Comment

                      • Mistkäfer
                        Junior Member
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 1

                        #56
                        I tested the HTM61 + HTM62 and the 685 as center speakers, and the 685 utterly wiped the floor with them IMO. If you have space for it, it does a great job, and I really have no complaints whatsoever with it.

                        The HTM61 was always too low, muffled, and muddy. I constantly had to boost the Center volume by +6-9 Db at our listening levels (generally -20Db). Like a flat tire on a car, it just brought down the overall cinema experience.

                        The HTM62 was OK. IMO better than the 61 though still too weak.

                        The 685 literally sings in the middle. The voices are crystal clear, authoritative, and the effects are clean and neat.

                        Overall, extremely happy with the set-up now.
                        EDIT- Receiver is Denon 2309...

                        BR
                        //Mist
                        Last edited by Mistkäfer; 28 June 2009, 02:37 Sunday. Reason: Added Receiver

                        Comment

                        • at_sunset_blvd
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 26

                          #57
                          guys how about using 3 HTM-61 for the front left, right & the other one for the center obviously. Would this be ok using the HTM-61 for the fronts? need your opinion guys.

                          Comment

                          • stuofsci02
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 1241

                            #58
                            I wouldn't... The HTM61 is the only B&W speaker I have ever owned which IMO sounds bad... I have one all boxed up in Wenge color sitting on the dining room table if anyone is interested.. I upgraded to the HTM4s which mops the floor with the HTM61..
                            Main System:
                            B&W 801D
                            Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                            Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                            Oppo BDP-105
                            Squeezebox Touch


                            Second System:
                            B&W CM7
                            Emotiva UMC-1
                            Emotiva UPA-2
                            Oppo BDP-83SE
                            Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                            Comment

                            • at_sunset_blvd
                              Junior Member
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 26

                              #59
                              Originally posted by stuofsci02
                              I wouldn't... The HTM61 is the only B&W speaker I have ever owned which IMO sounds bad... I have one all boxed up in Wenge color sitting on the dining room table if anyone is interested.. I upgraded to the HTM4s which mops the floor with the HTM61..
                              Thanks for the opinion, anymore suggestions out there, one or two more bad suggestions then I'm taking my eyes of these babies :cry:

                              Comment

                              • Shyamalan
                                Member
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 55

                                #60
                                If your fronts are 685, what do you think about using another 685 as a central speaker?

                                Comment

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