Is HTM61 as bad as this review indicates?

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  • epacke
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2008
    • 4

    Is HTM61 as bad as this review indicates?

    Hi!
    I've read a review on the new 600 series and it states that the HTM61 does a bad job as a center.

    "The problem was the HTM61 center channel speaker. Despite the pedigree offered by its FST midrange, it blended poorly with the left and right 683s."



    Does anyone share this experience? IMHO he seems to know what hes talking about most of the time... But then again, I'm an amateur.
  • videophile
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 18

    #2
    I suggest you ignore the review especially if, after auditioning, you find HTM61 satisfying to your ears. Even assuming it's that bad, which most people wouldn't notice anyway without reading the review, I think it's still a better (not necessary the best) match for 683 as compared to HTM62..

    Comment

    • hifiguymi
      Super Senior Member
      • Mar 2007
      • 1532

      #3
      I agree, listen for yourself. The HTM61 doesn't sound the same as the 683 because it's not the same speaker. The HTM61 is the best match, outside of another 683, so that is the one to go with in my experience.

      Eric

      Comment

      • wgriel
        Senior Member
        • May 2006
        • 241

        #4
        I seriously doubt that the HTM61 is anywhere near as bad as stated in that review. I can't say for sure (I've never heard it), but it would shock me if B&W released something this dismal.

        Comment

        • hifiguymi
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2007
          • 1532

          #5
          The HTM61 is not a bad sounding speaker, it just doesn't sound as good as a 683.

          Eric

          Comment

          • epacke
            Junior Member
            • Oct 2008
            • 4

            #6
            Thank you all for the good advise!

            Thats the thing... I'm considering buying speakers and I'm going to use them mainly for movies.
            Of course I will listen to the speakers first but before I go through the hassle of moving them to my humble estate I'd like to know whether the opinion of the reviewer is shared by others.

            I actually tried both CM7 and DM683 and even though I was much more inclined to choose CM7 because it has much nicer design the fact of the matter is that the DM683 HAS better sound, if not by much. Safe to say it left me just a wee bit indecisive. :roll:

            Which made me consider spending "a bit" more money and wait for the CM9 to be able to get nice design combined with that extra punch which CM7 is lacking.

            I already have a Denon 3808A today. If you'd dare to make a wild guess. Do you think that the 3808 would be sufficient to amplify a CM9 (biamped, of course)?

            Cheers,
            Patrik

            Comment

            • hifiguymi
              Super Senior Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 1532

              #7
              The AVR-3808 should be enough for the CM9s. I'm sure better electronics will be better but as a starting point it should work fine.

              If you are thinking about going up to the CM9 you would want to get the CMC2 to go with it. Just keep in mind that, as a system, that is a big jump in price from the 683 and HTM61. The other thing is time. The new CM products won't be out until after the first of the the year so you will have a 90 day or so wait for them.

              Eric

              Comment

              • marky mark
                Member
                • Feb 2008
                • 58

                #8
                if your not in a hurry, i will wait till the CM9 comes out, the new piano gloss black looks terrific

                Comment

                • epacke
                  Junior Member
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 4

                  #9
                  For terrific sound I'm willing to both wait and pay. But there's nothing that says that the CM9 will be much better, neither for movie nor music. It should be though...

                  My local store says it's coming out in Nov/Dec. Maybe it's a different release date in Europe.

                  Comment

                  • emig5m
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 646

                    #10
                    683/HTM61/685 here... no complaints. Actually I got so used to using mix-matched speakers in the past for surround, now that I have same brand/series all the way around it sounds almost too matched, lol. Before you could tell more noticeably sound queues from different locations because every speaker was so mismatched (all different series/quality levels/tonal sound differences/efficiency etc.) and now it's so matched it's like I have less surround effect then what I was used to before. Now it's much more of a clear same tone all the way around enveloping spatial effect and not so much pin-point sound queues from totally different sounding speakers if you know what I mean, heh.

                    In fact, the auto room correction/parametric EQ in my Yamaha the most it did to match the center to the mains was +-2dB at a couple frequencies. I'd say that's pretty close match since speaker location alone could effect the response in the same exact speaker much more then +-2dB.

                    If I was more HT then a 2-channel music fanatic, I'd just go 685s all the way around, even for center, and get a good sub to go with it. That way you're guaranteed each and every channel is a perfect match, heh.

                    Comment

                    • dan87951
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 379

                      #11
                      Wow I'm shocked by that review. When I had my 683's and HTM61 the HTM61 blended perfectly with them. The HTM61 is about 95% of a Nautilus HTM2 in my opinion. I had them both side by side and for the money you can't beat the HTM61!
                      dan87951
                      audio guru

                      Comment

                      • Kal Rubinson
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 2109

                        #12
                        Originally posted by dan87951
                        Wow I'm shocked by that review. When I had my 683's and HTM61 the HTM61 blended perfectly with them. The HTM61 is about 95% of a Nautilus HTM2 in my opinion. I had them both side by side and for the money you can't beat the HTM61!
                        Well, the big issue is the orientation of the drivers (as well as the tweeter enclosure). The HTM61 is simply a 3way on its side while the HTM2 has the drivers aligned vertically. Makes a big difference, imho.

                        Kal
                        Kal Rubinson
                        _______________________________
                        "Music in the Round"
                        Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
                        http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

                        Comment

                        • marsboer
                          Member
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 37

                          #13
                          The HTM61 is the only speaker of good quality that I have had in my life that I can only classify as bad, and it wasn't even remotely close to the DM683 regarding sonically matching. The DM683 is open and detailed, while the HTM61 is closed and muffled with no detail compared to DM683 and other good center channel speakers. I just had to get rid of it because it completely ruined the sound of my HT compared to the DM683s running phantom center.

                          Then I bought the HTM4S and the sound is almost identically sonically as the DM683, even though the HTM4S is even more detailed. The HTM4S actually increases the HT-experience, while the HTM61 completely ruined it.
                          Maybe the HTM7 is the middle way price- and performance wise, but I don't know since I haven't compared it with the other two at home.

                          But I strongly recommend against buying the HTM61, it's a waste of money and you'll never reach the potential of your HT which you have laid the building blocks for with the excellent choice of the front speakers DM683 (which most people seems to use with the HTM61).
                          The HTM4S is so much better in all aspects it's not even funny. Normally when you upgrade to a more expensive speaker the improvements are noticeable, but not a totally new world, but there are no words to say how bad the HTM61 sounded and integrated compared to HTM4S.


                          This review concludes with the exact same thing I experienced with the HTM61. Too bad I didn't read this review before AFTER I bought it and had realized it was so bad (started looking on the internet for similar experiences with the HTM61 to see if my unit was defective or something, which I found, not only on forums but also in this review) compared to the DM683 alone set up with mm accuracy in a likesided triangle with the resulting seamless stereoperspective where the speakers could not be localized and all instruments and elements in the soundfield placed accurately in between (this also includes voices nailed in the middle in movies)
                          which of course is only valid if I sit in the sweetspot, and thats why I had to get the HTM4S.

                          Comment

                          • marsboer
                            Member
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 37

                            #14
                            Found another post on this forum regarding this subject:

                            I am into looking for a new center channel. Problem is that in my furniture there is no room for a HTM3S or HTM2D. Main speakers are 803D, on Classe Delta amps. Would it work to buy a HTM4S? The speaker is a lot smaller then the mains. There is no "D" in it.. I know it is not a perfect match, but what I

                            Comment

                            • videophile
                              Junior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 18

                              #15
                              To those who already bought HTM61 with their 683, I suggest you enjoy your speakers rather than finding faults on it. I'm pretty sure a majority of average listener won't notice the mismatch or if they do they'll learn to accept it. The worst enemy of enjoyment is discontent and never ending upgrades.

                              To those still considering them, try to listen and assess if you can hear the sonical mismatch and if they are acceptable to you. If you find them acceptable, good for you since you don't need to spend much. Not everyone can afford the 800 series. I pity those who have discriminate ears who are discontented and tend to spend more for upgrade rather than enjoying them. Remember in this hobby, your enjoyment is the key and not what other people (or reviewers) think.

                              Comment

                              • altanpsx
                                Member
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 63

                                #16
                                HTM61 is a good center. They blend with 683, 703 even 804s without a problem. Of course there are better center speakers, but for this money it sounds good to me.

                                Comment

                                • marsboer
                                  Member
                                  • Sep 2007
                                  • 37

                                  #17
                                  HTM61 is a bad center. It blends poorly with the 683's. There are better center speakers at the same price point and it isn't worth the money compared to the competition or 683/685.

                                  Comment

                                  • Tino D'Voe
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Jan 2002
                                    • 13

                                    #18
                                    HTM61 sounds like a good speaker to me. I have it sitting vertically on the stand as opposed to lying on its side, I have a smaller room and the layout works great, all three fronts are about the same height right under the projection screen.

                                    I have no idea what the complaints could be for this cause I'm enjoying the 683/HTm61/685 combo. If I were to recommend any other speaker for a center I'd say just get a third 683.

                                    Comment

                                    • altanpsx
                                      Member
                                      • Nov 2008
                                      • 63

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by marsboer
                                      HTM61 is a bad center. It blends poorly with the 683's. There are better center speakers at the same price point and it isn't worth the money compared to the competition or 683/685.
                                      marsboer,

                                      In every forum I see you forcing persons to believe that HTM61 is a bad center speaker. There is no point to force people what u think is right. Of course we love to hear your experience about the speakers, but we are not eager to adopt them. I think HTM61 is a bargain for it's price, but this does not mean that you have to accept it. Maybe you had problems with it, maybe you did not use it in correct place, maybe we do not have sharp ear as yours, but most of the user like it, and you are free to dislike. But do not force people to think what you are thinking.

                                      Comment

                                      • altanpsx
                                        Member
                                        • Nov 2008
                                        • 63

                                        #20
                                        And again there is no DM683. I realy wonder did you ever listened 683 or Htm61.

                                        Comment

                                        • newguy987
                                          Member
                                          • Nov 2008
                                          • 31

                                          #21
                                          I'd just like to say I have the 683/htm61 combo and have found no problems. Sounds very very good. I find a lot of reviews to be....how do we say inaccurate. my two cents. - not all of us have x amount of money to spend on home theater, and a lot of us will never be able to afford the 800 series. I am happy with what I have and that's the bottom line
                                          Last edited by newguy987; 17 November 2008, 16:42 Monday.

                                          Comment

                                          • videophile
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Sep 2008
                                            • 18

                                            #22
                                            Very well said. Never ever let anyone rob you from enjoying your speakers as long as you yourself love its sounds.

                                            Comment

                                            • Ken49r
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Dec 2007
                                              • 312

                                              #23
                                              I read that review back when it came out and the 1st thing that came to mind was if the reviewer even gave the HTM61 time to break in, speaker placement, and room acoustics. Placing it in a cabinet or to close to the back wall will effect the sound. It is a 3 way and I think that FST midrange needs time to open up.
                                              Hard to believe B&W would release an FST center channel if it didn't match the 683 in their listening tests.

                                              Comment

                                              • Kal Rubinson
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Mar 2006
                                                • 2109

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Ken49r
                                                I read that review back when it came out and the 1st thing that came to mind was if the reviewer even gave the HTM61 time to break in, speaker placement, and room acoustics. Placing it in a cabinet or to close to the back wall will effect the sound. It is a 3 way and I think that FST midrange needs time to open up.
                                                Hard to believe B&W would release an FST center channel if it didn't match the 683 in their listening tests.
                                                What TN wrote is:
                                                "The problem was the HTM61 center channel speaker. Despite the pedigree offered by its FST midrange, it blended poorly with the left and right 683s. Its sound was thicker, duller, and less open—a characteristic that was different depending on whether I was seated on-axis or off to the left or right by about 30-degrees (it was also different in the two directions)."

                                                It is not that the drivers do not match nor is it that the HTM61 cannot match the 683s but that the irregular dispersion due to the driver arrangement means that it will have a varying FR depending on listener position over even small ranges of movement. This is inherent in horizontal designs. Look at the off-axis midrange and HD suckouts in fig. 3a.
                                                Full report here: http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersyst...8bw/index.html

                                                Kal
                                                Kal Rubinson
                                                _______________________________
                                                "Music in the Round"
                                                Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
                                                http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

                                                Comment

                                                • c22600
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Oct 2008
                                                  • 8

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by marsboer
                                                  The HTM61 is the only speaker of good quality that I have had in my life that I can only classify as bad, and it wasn't even remotely close to the DM683 regarding sonically matching. The DM683 is open and detailed, while the HTM61 is closed and muffled with no detail compared to DM683 and other good center channel speakers. I just had to get rid of it because it completely ruined the sound of my HT compared to the DM683s running phantom center.

                                                  Then I bought the HTM4S and the sound is almost identically sonically as the DM683, even though the HTM4S is even more detailed. The HTM4S actually increases the HT-experience, while the HTM61 completely ruined it.
                                                  Maybe the HTM7 is the middle way price- and performance wise, but I don't know since I haven't compared it with the other two at home.

                                                  But I strongly recommend against buying the HTM61, it's a waste of money and you'll never reach the potential of your HT which you have laid the building blocks for with the excellent choice of the front speakers DM683 (which most people seems to use with the HTM61).
                                                  The HTM4S is so much better in all aspects it's not even funny. Normally when you upgrade to a more expensive speaker the improvements are noticeable, but not a totally new world, but there are no words to say how bad the HTM61 sounded and integrated compared to HTM4S.


                                                  This review concludes with the exact same thing I experienced with the HTM61. Too bad I didn't read this review before AFTER I bought it and had realized it was so bad (started looking on the internet for similar experiences with the HTM61 to see if my unit was defective or something, which I found, not only on forums but also in this review) compared to the DM683 alone set up with mm accuracy in a likesided triangle with the resulting seamless stereoperspective where the speakers could not be localized and all instruments and elements in the soundfield placed accurately in between (this also includes voices nailed in the middle in movies)
                                                  which of course is only valid if I sit in the sweetspot, and thats why I had to get the HTM4S.
                                                  I hate to say it but this is exactly how I found the HTM61 when I bought it last year with the 683's and I also traded it for the HTM4S. To me the voices were very muffled and I had trouble understanding the dialogue. The HTM4S was a world apart in comparision and a much better match albeit, 2.5 times the price. I purchased the 600 series before any reviews were available and interestingly, the very 1st review I read said the same thing about the HTM61.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • marsboer
                                                    Member
                                                    • Sep 2007
                                                    • 37

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by c22600
                                                    I hate to say it but this is exactly how I found the HTM61 when I bought it last year with the 683's and I also traded it for the HTM4S. To me the voices were very muffled and I had trouble understanding the dialogue. The HTM4S was a world apart in comparision and a much better match albeit, 2.5 times the price. I purchased the 600 series before any reviews were available and interestingly, the very 1st review I read said the same thing about the HTM61.
                                                    Yep. Sadly there are people that say this isn't true, just because they haven't heard how much they are missing out but I guess ignorance is a bliss. I just hope that these non-correct statements (even the measurements show that the HTM61 have problems) doesn't make other people waste their money on the HTM61, when they clearly can get something much better even for the same price.

                                                    It's okay that people are happy with their HTM61 setup, but it's NOT okay to say that the speaker is great when everyone that has compared it to other good center speakers at home concludes that the HTM61 sadly isn't up to the ordinary B&W standard, even for the price.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • marsboer
                                                      Member
                                                      • Sep 2007
                                                      • 37

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by altanpsx
                                                      marsboer,

                                                      In every forum I see you forcing persons to believe that HTM61 is a bad center speaker. There is no point to force people what u think is right. Of course we love to hear your experience about the speakers, but we are not eager to adopt them. I think HTM61 is a bargain for it's price, but this does not mean that you have to accept it. Maybe you had problems with it, maybe you did not use it in correct place, maybe we do not have sharp ear as yours, but most of the user like it, and you are free to dislike. But do not force people to think what you are thinking.
                                                      The problem is that every person I have seen that has actually compared the HTM61 with something else at home has concluded that it is not good. I have PERSONALLY done this too. In addition there are MEASUREMENTS that backs up the claims that it's not a sonically match for the 683s, and that it would give a rather closed sound.

                                                      I can't see you have done anything like this yourself.
                                                      I can only see that you are happy with it, but you obviously haven't compared it to a better sounding speaker, and won't accept the FACT that it's not a good speaker.
                                                      It's not my fault that you are stubborn and ignorant, but I actually have something real to back up my claims while you have ...well...nothing except your own limited experience.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • newguy987
                                                        Member
                                                        • Nov 2008
                                                        • 31

                                                        #28
                                                        marsboer, This is the last post i'll make on this subject. You seem to have a problem with those of us who enjoy this speaker. If you don't like it that's fine, move on! Don't try to be the hero and force your opinions on others. Who gives a flying $%^@! if there are better speakers out there, you're missing the point. The point is if you're happy with what you have.....the end. Call us ignorant call us whatever you want, we found something we are happy with-whether it's right in your eyes is completely irelevant. I find it quite funny, people on these forums who try to sway people in one direction or another. The choice is up to the individual, and if they are happy with their choice who are you to try to convince them otherwise? I'm sure the xxx series sounds better at xxx price. Not picking a fight here but let people make their own choices of what they feel is good to them-after all thats what it's all about. "what sounds good to me" not to mention can I afford this? Don't bother slamming me or picking a fight, like a said i'm not posting anymore on this subject, I am one of those who's happy with what I got-lucky enough to have what I got. move on and enjoy your stereo like the rest of us, without slamming those who have different opinions, and different gear.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • marsboer
                                                          Member
                                                          • Sep 2007
                                                          • 37

                                                          #29
                                                          I don't have a problem with people beeing happy with this speaker as I fully understand that many people either don't have the experience with other equipment or just have lower requirements. I DO however have a problem with the "I have it therefore it must be great even though I haven't compared it with anything and therefore the idiots which have done it must be totally wrong" attitude which you have shown! I did say that it's okay to be happy with the HTM61 for existing owners, but I just feel it's wrong to recommend it to someone when they are going for a new center.
                                                          When someone ask for recommandations, you try to recommend the best choices, not one of the worst just because you have it yourself and haven't listened to the alternatives.

                                                          My intention is to warn new possible owners that the HTM61 isn't a good center speaker amongst the choices, not to disrespect the already happy owners, and I'm sorry if I have done that.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • metallicaband
                                                            Junior Member
                                                            • Nov 2008
                                                            • 12

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by marsboer
                                                            I don't have a problem with people beeing happy with this speaker as I fully understand that many people either don't have the experience with other equipment or just have lower requirements. I DO however have a problem with the "I have it therefore it must be great even though I haven't compared it with anything and therefore the idiots which have done it must be totally wrong" attitude which you have shown! I did say that it's okay to be happy with the HTM61 for existing owners, but I just feel it's wrong to recommend it to someone when they are going for a new center.
                                                            When someone ask for recommandations, you try to recommend the best choices, not one of the worst just because you have it yourself and haven't listened to the alternatives.

                                                            My intention is to warn new possible owners that the HTM61 isn't a good center speaker amongst the choices, not to disrespect the already happy owners, and I'm sorry if I have done that.
                                                            Which center do you think best suits the 683's ? (other than HTM4S which is pretty expensive compared to the 600 series).

                                                            Also, if you have any experience with the previous 600 series speakers, is the LCR600 Center Speaker as bad as the HTM61 ?

                                                            Comment

                                                            • altanpsx
                                                              Member
                                                              • Nov 2008
                                                              • 63

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by marsboer
                                                              I don't have a problem with people beeing happy with this speaker as I fully understand that many people either don't have the experience with other equipment or just have lower requirements. I DO however have a problem with the "I have it therefore it must be great even though I haven't compared it with anything and therefore the idiots which have done it must be totally wrong" attitude which you have shown! I did say that it's okay to be happy with the HTM61 for existing owners, but I just feel it's wrong to recommend it to someone when they are going for a new center.
                                                              When someone ask for recommandations, you try to recommend the best choices, not one of the worst just because you have it yourself and haven't listened to the alternatives.

                                                              My intention is to warn new possible owners that the HTM61 isn't a good center speaker amongst the choices, not to disrespect the already happy owners, and I'm sorry if I have done that.
                                                              You do really have a attitude problem. All of us are idiot, and you are very clever...

                                                              ""It's not my fault that you are stubborn and ignorant, but I actually have something real to back up my claims while you have ...well...nothing except your own limited experience.""


                                                              Not only my own limited experience, don't you know how to read. At least 2-3 people claiming they are happy with their HTM61 and reccomending it. It is obvious who is stubborn and ignorant.

                                                              Behave yourself child.....

                                                              Comment

                                                              • marsboer
                                                                Member
                                                                • Sep 2007
                                                                • 37

                                                                #32
                                                                Okay, I did go a bit far there maybe. I'm sorry!

                                                                So far I can summarize this thread as following:

                                                                1. There are several people that say they are happy with their HTM61 and recommend it. None of them has so far brought forward any comparisons with other similar priced or better speakers.

                                                                2. Measurements show that the HTM61 is not sonically matching the 683, and that it's lacking output in the area which normally brings out clarity and detail

                                                                3. One person claims that the design may be a problem, but have not backed this up with further evidence.

                                                                4. Two people and a review claims that the HTM61 is a relatively bad speaker compared to 683 and that swapping it out for another speaker (HTM4S in my case, and a similar priced one (as the HTM61) in the review) brought considerable improvements


                                                                These are the facts as far as I can see, and from these facts people should decide if they should get the HTM61 or not (based on this thread at least)
                                                                Please correct me if I have let anything out.
                                                                Last edited by marsboer; 28 November 2008, 11:06 Friday.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • altanpsx
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Nov 2008
                                                                  • 63

                                                                  #33
                                                                  That's better...

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • mazewing
                                                                    Junior Member
                                                                    • Nov 2008
                                                                    • 8

                                                                    #34
                                                                    marsboer, what do you recommend as a centre speakers for the 683's. If possible please keep around de $600 range

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • emig5m
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                                      • 646

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by mazewing
                                                                      marsboer, what do you recommend as a centre speakers for the 683's. If possible please keep around de $600 range
                                                                      Maybe a single 685? I'd personally like to know what's going on with the HTM61 since it has the same midrange and tweeter as the 683 and same woofer of a 685. Bad crossover network? I should one day pull one of my 685's off the wall and replace the HTM61 with it.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • tudorvok
                                                                        Junior Member
                                                                        • Jan 2009
                                                                        • 17

                                                                        #36
                                                                        i heard the htm62 with 685 speakers and i didnt like it so i was thinking to buy the htm61 instead but this review made me change my mind.

                                                                        now i would buy another 685 as a center which will also save some money.

                                                                        what do you think about 685 as a center? bad / good idea?
                                                                        If you don't know what you want you'll never get it :sn

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • wgriel
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • May 2006
                                                                          • 241

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by tudorvok
                                                                          i heard the htm62 with 685 speakers and i didnt like it so i was thinking to buy the htm61 instead but this review made me change my mind.

                                                                          now i would buy another 685 as a center which will also save some money.

                                                                          what do you think about 685 as a center? bad / good idea?
                                                                          If you can fit a 685 do it!! It will outperform any of the 600 series center channels.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • newguy987
                                                                            Member
                                                                            • Nov 2008
                                                                            • 31

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Just a note, I too own the htm61 and the 683's, At first they were powered by my arcam avr300-fronts biamped. With this hook up I was unhappy with the center-especially at high volumes. The center would crackle and not be able to handle much bass. I recently purchased a used Arcam FMJ P25/3, now my fronts are all bi amped(using the p25/3 for LF), and the avr300 is freed up for two more surrounds(channels 6 and 7). The difference was massive! Now the center is at par with the fronts, even when listening at high volume levels (84-90dbs). So before throwing out the htm61, try bi-amping it, see if it makes a difference for you. One question i do have, is how could a 685 sound better as a center with the 683's when it doesn't have the fst midrange. This to me is the reason why the htm61 is a better match, unless of course you move into the cm, 700, or 800 series? Hope this helps anyone considering the htm61

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • fhsun
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Oct 2008
                                                                              • 39

                                                                              #39
                                                                              CM Centre for 683?

                                                                              Has anyone tried matching the 683's with the new CM Centre or CM Centre 2 center speakers?

                                                                              I, too, find my HTM61 a bit disappointing with my 683's. It seems to lack clarity and detail when it comes to quiet dialogues. I constantly find myself cranking up the volume so I can hear what is being said, then scrambling for volume control when music or action scenes kick in!

                                                                              -----------------------
                                                                              Edit typo from HTM1 to HTM61. Thanks Bryan!
                                                                              Last edited by fhsun; 21 May 2009, 20:37 Thursday.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • bnieman
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Jun 2006
                                                                                • 202

                                                                                #40
                                                                                You have an HTM1 and are disappointed!? I suspect that was a typo (The HTM1 is an Nautilus 800 series center channel)

                                                                                You should definitely take a look at the HTM7 (700 series center channel). It has a free-mounted Nautilus tweeter and is very clear. The 600 series and CM series lack the free-mounted tweeter. Once you get the tweeter out of the box I think it takes the sound to a whole new level. B&W omitted it from the new CM series and 600 series to reduce costs.

                                                                                B&W has discontinued the 700 series because they would have needed to increase prices yet again due today's manufacturing costs (it's much easier to make a speaker in a box like the 600 or CM series).

                                                                                You can get the 700 series speakers for a steal on the used market right now, or as close outs from dealers.

                                                                                I just upgraded to the N800 series HTM1 from the HTM7 for a bit more power (the HTM1 has 2 woofers in addition to the surroundless midrange and free-mounted tweeter). With that in mind, the HTM7 is nothing to gawk at and if you are coming from the 600 series it should be quite a noticeable improvement.

                                                                                If you're interested I've got my HTM7 listed on Audigon right now Just type in HTM7 into the search box. Gorgeous speaker

                                                                                Cheers!

                                                                                Bryan
                                                                                Guide: Ripping DVD-Audio Discs (DVD-A) to FLAC in Windows

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • JustinGN
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • May 2009
                                                                                  • 105

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Glad I caught this thread in time. Unfortunately, the only local dealer I have doesn't carry the 600 series on a consistent basis, so I have to special order anything for auditioning - a burden I don't want to put on the dealer, if things don't sound right. For now, I've decided to pass on the HTM61 and have asked for pricing on the HTM7, CM Centre, and HTM62; depending on them, I'll probably audition the CM and HTM62, unless the HTM7 is much cheaper than I'm expecting.

                                                                                  Unlike a lot of you, I don't have the cash to step into 800 series territory Heck, I can't even afford 683s! I'll never get rid of my 684s, though; they're my "first", as it were.

                                                                                  EDIT: Question, though. How much of a color difference is there between Black Wenge and Black Ash? If I go for the HTM7 or CM Centre, is there going to be a glaring fashion faux pas?

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • pixeljedi
                                                                                    Member
                                                                                    • Apr 2009
                                                                                    • 38

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by fhsun
                                                                                    Has anyone tried matching the 683's with the new CM Centre or CM Centre 2 center speakers?
                                                                                    Yup, I'm currently using a CMC2 with the 683s. The HTM61 was not to my liking at all, the sound coming from it was 'muddy'. Even the dealer agreed with me on my listening test.

                                                                                    Zero complaints from the CMC2, that is one damn nice speaker. Dialog is clean and clear. The sound matches very well with the 683s. I went with the piano black, but had to wait almost three months for it to come in.

                                                                                    Cheers,
                                                                                    Thor

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • pixeljedi
                                                                                      Member
                                                                                      • Apr 2009
                                                                                      • 38

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      I should note, I also tested out the CMC1 for a week, but finally decided on the CMC2, as the CMC1 just felt 'small' in sound next to the 683s. In all honesty, if I could do things again, I'd probably save some cash and get an awesome used center off Audiogon (like Bryan's HTM7) :T

                                                                                      Apologies to any htm61 owners out there, didn't mean to knock your gear - just relaying my experience.

                                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                                      Thor

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • emig5m
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Aug 2008
                                                                                        • 646

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by pixeljedi
                                                                                        Yup, I'm currently using a CMC2 with the 683s. The HTM61 was not to my liking at all, the sound coming from it was 'muddy'. Even the dealer agreed with me on my listening test.
                                                                                        I've been jumping through the hoops to get BluRay playback all working nice and peachy with the Windows 7 Beta and now Release Candidate with TotalMedia Theatre and the Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 HDMI soundcard. Along with recalibrating my HDTV I was also playing around with my speaker setup. I too notice the center sounded slightly on the muddy side until I fully plugged the bass port. I also tried the port plugs in the 683's and thought they took away too much of the nice lower bass extension that the 683's have and didn't like the 683's bass ports plugged at all. But plugging the port on the HTM61 made all the difference for me in taking most of the muddiness away that was making it sound less clear than the 683.

                                                                                        Using the channel test sounds (which sound like chimes) in the control panel of my PC and manually sweeping from left to center to right channel I couldn't tell the difference between the sound of the 683 and the HTM61 in the vocal and top end. I just watched The Dark Knight BluRay and the HTM61 sounded perfectly clear to me and blended perfectly with the 683's in the vocal and up frequencies... of course the 683 has better lower bass extension, but, I feel the HTM61 suits it purpose as a dialog center channel to timbre match for the 683's in a surround setup. As a owner now of a complete 600 series surround setup for nine months I highly recommend trying the full plugs in the bass port of the HTM61 (which on the other hand I don't recommend with the 683 becuase it takes too much of the nice lower bass extension away.)

                                                                                        I'm still wondering if there was a bad early batch or they tweaked/reconfigured something along the way in say, the crossover after hearing complaints because even the auto calibration EQ in my preamp when set to "EQ all channels to match front mains" only adjusts a couple frequencies 1 or 2 dB to match the 683 so my preamp also doesn't hear much difference? I bought mine new and had to be ordered (none in stock) around the 3rd week in August last year.

                                                                                        I came from Cerwin Vega...

                                                                                        ...and that center didn't match B&W at all, lol. When sounds panned you COULD really hear and localize the B&W mains from the Cerwin Vega center but I'm just not hearing that much of a difference with the HTM61.... (sounds much smoother, realistic, and clearer too.)

                                                                                        I do like the idea of using the CMC2 though... looks like a killer center speaker. I might of went that way if I had the funds and it was out when I purchased the 600 series. It does "look" like a more properly designed center speaker, but the HTM61 still "sounds" good to me so I probably wont change it out any time soon.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • pixeljedi
                                                                                          Member
                                                                                          • Apr 2009
                                                                                          • 38

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by emig5m
                                                                                          plugging the port on the HTM61 made all the difference for me in taking most of the muddiness away
                                                                                          If reducing the lower frequencies made it sound better, you may also want to try increasing the crossover frequency for that channel on your receiver (assuming your receiver has that feature), to further reduce them.

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