B&W 803D Versus 802D Review

[misterdoggy]

Well the plans are not set in stone yet. My house on lake annecy is for sale but have to sell it first.

We have looked on both the atlantic and mediterranee at Biarritz on the atlantic and now we are going to check out the coast from montpellier down to spain.

Beautiful Castle that. Is that in Carcassone ? I'll have to check that one out. I have visited the Loire Valley with all the castles and they always amaze me.

[ShadowZA]

Thats a lovely place!! Is there a B&W dealer behid those walls?

Interestingly, within the castle walls are shops, narrow pedestrian streets, a Best Western hotel (Le Donjon - in which we stayed) and lots of restaurants. No B&W dealer though. Not sure if there is one in Carcassonne, the main city.

Beautiful Castle that. Is that in Carcassone ?

Yes it is. We only spent 5 days there. I could have spent longer. Visited cousins who stay in Montlaur - about 15 minutes outside Carcassonne. To me, the whole area is beautiful beyond belief. The vineyards, countryside ... not too far from the Med coast. Maybe an hour away. Bliss!

[misterdoggy]

Here's the view from my window where I live now

But I would like to head to the SUN

[ShadowZA]

Here's the view from my window where I live now

But I would like to head to the SUN

That ... is beautiful, Misterdoggy! :T

[misterdoggy]

That ... is beautiful, Misterdoggy! :T

I hear South Africa is one of the most beautiful places on Earth !!

Some day I would love to see it ;x(

[1oldguy]

Looks lovely.......Too bad I'll never get there after blowing my stash on Gear.Can't have it all right.
Congrats

[sikoniko]

I've not travelled the world much.., never been to France, but Bath in England is one of the most beautiful towns I've ever been in.

supposedly Johnny Depp lives in the south France somewhere... you could become his neighbor.

[wettou]

Here's the view from my window where I live now. But I would like to head to the SUN

Very nice a bit cold but never the less beautiful, yes I lov the Sun as well try Hawaii, Queensland :B or better yet Bora Bora now that is sun

[misterdoggy]

Very nice a bit cold but never the less beautiful, yes I lov the Sun as well try Hawaii, Queensland :B or better yet Bora Bora now that is sun

Yeah All sound nice great places.....

I like be in Europe though, Islands tend to make you feel isolated after 6 months..

[wettou]

Yeah All sound nice great places.....

I like be in Europe though, Islands tend to make you feel isolated after 6 months..

As you said to each his own ...:B Australia is a big Island

[misterdoggy]

As you said to each his own ...:B Australia is a big Island

I was referring to Hawaii and Bora Bora not Australia

I would love to visit Australia

[KyaDawn]

Well if the dealer was trying to set up the demo so to convince me to buy the more expensive 802Ds, then he failed miserably! :B

Your argument would make more sense if the 802Ds completely out-shined the 803Ds in the audition, but they did not. In fact, I went into the audition with serious thought about purchasing the 802Ds and thinking the demo would "seal the deal", which is why I came away so shocked that I found very little difference between the 802Ds and 803Ds.

Perhaps if I spent more hours and demoed a wider range of music genres, I might come away with hearing the differences between the two speakers that you obviously do. But then again, I went into the audition with my own CDs and CDs which represent the music I enjoy listening to, and under that criteria, the speakers performed nearly identical to me.

Like you said, this is "my money and my tastes", so no amount of selling from the dealer or opinions I read online is going to convince me that the 802Ds is worth the extra costs FOR ME. No, that would be a decision I make solely by myself, and like I said, the only reason for me to choose the 802Ds at this time is for aesthetic reasons, which may not be the reason to buy a speaker, but then again, it's entirely up to me as it is "my money and my tastes".

As for the dealer, they are the only B&W dealer here in Hong Kong where I live, and they sell exclusively B&W speakers, and Classé and Rotel electronics. They have been at their location for as long as I've been remember using the same demo rooms, so if after all this time, they haven't found the prime sweet spot in the room, I'm not sure how much better luck I would have in a couple of hours! :B

P.S. The name of the "dealer" is "B&W Group Asia Ltd". I think perhaps that would qualify them as having more than a casual knowledge of B&W products! :rofl:

Just a quick follow-up, in the end, I went with the 802Ds instead of the 803Ds. Even though I didn't hear that much of a difference between the two, I just like the look of the 802Ds so much better! Call me a sucker for looks, but I feel a lot happier after my decision. I figure I'm going to have these speakers for a long time, and I knew I would never be fuller satisfied with the 803Ds, always wondering if I made the right decision, and the only upside to getting them was to save a few grand.

I ordered them yesterday and unfortunately the dealer didn't have the cherrywood in stock, so I will need to wait 45 days for delivery. Guess that will give me plenty of time to figure out my amps! :lol:

[KyaDawn]

I had spent considerable time auditioning the 800Ds several months ago, but I didn't compare them directly to the 802Ds during the same listening sessions.

Rebelman has shown that the crossovers are better on the 800Ds versus the other speakers in the 800 Diamond Series.

The marlan head including the mid range speaker and the tweeter are the same dimensions between the 800D and the 802D. The primary difference is in the bass drivers, the crossovers, the cabinet size/depth and plinth.

From my memory, the 800D is everything that I want in a speaker with it's big soundstage and deep full bass output.

But, maybe someone can do a side-by-side comparison and give us a review.

The 800D also has about a $23-24,000 list versus the $14,000 list for the 802D, and $9,000 list for the 803D.

I listened to the 802D, 801D and 800D yesterday in that order. Actually started with the 805S first, which I got for my surrounds, and they sounded way better than I expected, though obviously not in the same league as the other three.

Compared to the 802D, the 801D was much more bass-heavy. The audition room was probably not big enough for them, but they still sounded great. Thought I heard an improvement in the mid-range over the 802D, but the extra bass was distracting. As the demo room was similar to size as to my living room, I would take the 802D over the 801D as my room just isn't suitable for the 801D.

The 800D is a different story. Noticeably lighter in bass than the 801D, it seemed much more balanced than the other two, while also providing a fuller sound than the 802D. Definitely had more bass than the 802D, but not overwhelming like the 801D. There seemed to be a wider soundstage than the 802D, and a more natural mid-range. In fact, the 802D sounded a little colored in the mid-range and somewhat "boomy" compared to the 800D.

Overall, all three are excellent speakers, but the 800D is not surprisingly the best out of them. The difference between the 800D and the 802D, however, is not as dramatic as, say, between the 802D and the 804S, in my view.

Interestingly, before the B&W audition, I was upstairs at the Wilson Audio dealer and listened to the Wilson Audio Alexandria X-2s, my second time hearing them. I have to say the 800Ds held up very well in comparison. :T

[beden1]

Just a quick follow-up, in the end, I went with the 802Ds instead of the 803Ds. Even though I didn't hear that much of a difference between the two, I just like the look of the 802Ds so much better! Call me a sucker for looks, but I feel a lot happier after my decision. I figure I'm going to have these speakers for a long time, and I knew I would never be fuller satisfied with the 803Ds, always wondering if I made the right decision, and the only upside to getting them was to save a few grand.

I ordered them yesterday and unfortunately the dealer didn't have the cherrywood in stock, so I will need to wait 45 days for delivery. Guess that will give me plenty of time to figure out my amps! :lol:

If you're in the USA, that's strange it will take 45 days for delivery? Usually they are in the warehouse and take about a week for delivery.

Good luck with your new speakers.

[KyaDawn]

If you're in the USA, that's strange it will take 45 days for delivery? Usually they are in the warehouse and take about a week for delivery.

Good luck with your new speakers.

I'm in Hong Kong actually, and they need to ship them from the UK.

[sikoniko]

The 800D is a different story. Noticeably lighter in bass than the 801D, it seemed much more balanced than the other two, while also providing a fuller sound than the 802D. Definitely had more bass than the 802D, but not overwhelming like the 801D. There seemed to be a wider soundstage than the 802D, and a more natural mid-range. In fact, the 802D sounded a little colored in the mid-range and somewhat "boomy" compared to the 800D.
:T

Some of this can also be attributed to the different cross-over system used by the 800D.

[KyaDawn]

Some of this can also be attributed to the different cross-over system used by the 800D.

Yes, that should be it. Does anyone know exactly what the difference is in the crossover systems between the 800D and 802D?

I wonder how much the crossover system factors in the USD$9,000 difference between the two models, taking into account the different woofers and cabinets, etc.

[ShadowZA]

Yes, that should be it. Does anyone know exactly what the difference is in the crossover systems between the 800D and 802D?

I wonder how much the crossover system factors in the USD$9,000 difference between the two models, taking into account the different woofers and cabinets, etc.

These threads could go some way in answering your question, KyaDawn (also discusses other differences between the 800D & 802D):

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=25449

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=21817

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=26968

[KyaDawn]

Great links ShadowZA! Very informative. About the crossover used in the 800D, I understand that it was needed due to the larger woofers than on the 802D. But it also seems from the links that they used higher quality materials. Is that the case? If so, I wonder if the 802D could be improved, especially in the mid-range, using similar crossovers (i.e. M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitors) as the 800D.

I know it affects the cost, but I also wonder if B&W deliberately "held back" on using these superior crossovers in the 802D to present a noticeably superior 800D, thus justifying the higher price-point of their 800 series flagship model. Not a knock on B&W, as every company finds the need to differentiate their models and to justify the additional costs of the "top-of-the-line", but I just wonder how much better the 802D would be if these superior crossovers were utilized.

[ShadowZA]

... I just wonder how much better the 802D would be if these superior crossovers were utilized.

I must admit, this thought has crossed my mind too. :scratchhead:

[William]

Here is my take since I now own both and have had both hooked up in the same position with same room and equipment (picture below). I have owned 803D's for about 2 years and just moved them to the rears and replaced with 802D's.

Got the 802D's Tuesday, hooked them up and let them play for 4 hours at 90dB plus to break-in and then calibrated.

Oddly my main reason to upgrade was the rears I was using. Had 804N's for the rears and they were too low and just didn't timbre match the 803D's. I was going to get 2 more 803D's but have friend who went from 803D's to 802D's. He swore it was quite an improvement. I was skeptical since both use the same FST and Diamond tweeter with the 803D actually having more woofer surface area. WOW was I pleasantly surprised. While maintaining the same timbre match to the 803D's the 802D's have much deeper and smother low end (had to check to be sure my Velodyne sub wasn't pumping). They also seem to have a much tighter sound and at the same time more open and defined soundstage. It seems the Marlin Head actually does a great job of focusing the FST and with the Diamond mounted closer it blends the transition between the two. Also the 802D's crossover must really help "tighten" up the sound. I also decided to replace my HTM2D with a HTM1D though they are on backorder.

[ShadowZA]

Here is my take since I now own both and have had both hooked up in the same position with same room and equipment (picture below). I have owned 803D's for about 2 years and just moved them to the rears and replaced with 802D's.

Got the 802D's Tuesday, hooked them up and let them play for 4 hours at 90dB plus to break-in and then calibrated.

Oddly my main reason to upgrade was the rears I was using. Had 804N's for the rears and they were too low and just didn't timbre match the 803D's. I was going to get 2 more 803D's but have friend who went from 803D's to 802D's. He swore it was quite an improvement. I was skeptical since both use the same FST and Diamond tweeter with the 803D actually having more woofer surface area. WOW was I pleasantly surprised. While maintaining the same timbre match to the 803D's the 802D's have much deeper and smother low end (had to check to be sure my Velodyne sub wasn't pumping). They also seem to have a much tighter sound and at the same time more open and defined soundstage. It seems the Marlin Head actually does a great job of focusing the FST and with the Diamond mounted closer it blends the transition between the two. Also the 802D's crossover must really help "tighten" up the sound. I also decided to replace my HTM2D with a HTM1D though they are on backorder.

Congratulations, William!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Like you, I was a bit hesitant to go for the 802D's at first. I have no regrets at all now. I'm sure that you also find the 803D's do a superb job as rears.

I am interested to hear your views once you've had some time to spend with your HTM1D. Good luck and hope that it arrives soon. :T

[William]

Congratulations, William!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Like you, I was a bit hesitant to go for the 802D's at first. I have no regrets at all now. I'm sure that you also find the 803D's do a superb job as rears.

I am interested to hear your views once you've had some time to spend with your HTM1D. Good luck and hope that it arrives soon. :T

Thanks, but it looks like it will be quite a while before B&W ships me my HDM1D.

[kmcheng]

803D vs. 802D?

Here is a dilemma I am facing, and I am hoping some of the forum members can chime in and help me decide.

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

Let's assume that I have the money. (Food and gas would become luxury items that I will live without for about three months.) Which speakers would you pick?

I mostly listen to classical and jazz, and currently do not plan to change my Bel Canto class D 150W per channel class D amp.

[misterdoggy]

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

Dont you mean the opposite ? A pair of 802D's for the price of 803D's

What you suggest sounds like a poor deal

[focker]

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

So let me get this straight... you can get a pair of open box 803D speakers for around $14,000.00 and want to know what to do? Are you saying the dealer opened the boxes of the 803Ds and then raised the price 5 grand???

I say buy the sealed 802D since they are the same price as some open box speakers and eat Top Ramen for the next 4 months :T

[kmcheng]

Sorry, I forgot to include the price.

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for 55% of the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

[Briz vegas]

I can get an apple for 55% the price of an orange. Your comparison is confusing as the 803D is about 65% the price of a 802D without a discount.

Surely what matters is the discount on the price vs a sealed box pair of 803D.

[ray5]

Sorry, I forgot to include the price.

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for 55% of the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

The 802D's are 14000$/pair list and 803D's are 9000$/pair list. Could you clarify what the deal is? Is this dealer going out of business? Is it a reliable dealer in Boston?

[Orb]

Sorry, I forgot to include the price.

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for 55% of the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

I agree with the others, why has the dealer not told you the % of the price compared to new 803D.
At the moment this sounds like a sales trick by the dealer

Cheers
Orb

[ray5]

Sorry, I forgot to include the price.

I am offered the an open-box, but brand new, pair of 803D for 55% of the price of a pair of sealed-box 802D.

Also, if I get it right that amounts to 803D's for about $7700( if we take 14000$ as list for a pair of 802D's) that is 13% discount. You could get about 15% even without all this with a dealer in Boston.

[focker]

Man I need a cocktail that is 55% rum, 32% ice, 3% coconut and oh let me see what is that percentage of pineapple juice.... never mind... this makes my head hurt

[kmcheng]

For some reason I thought it is not allowed to mention B&W prices on a public forum. Apparently I was too paranoid.

Anyway, I am offered $6800 for the open box 803D. The brand-new 802D is listed at $14000. Based on personal experience with the dealer I think I can get at least 10% discount, if not more.

No I do not think the dealer is going out of business. I have been buying from them and there is nothing fishy or tricky or anything like that. Yes they are always trying to get me to buy more expensive stuff, but I actually have a lot of respect for them. If anything, I blame them for not being persuasive enough initially and get me to buy the 803D from the get-go. : That would have saved me all the troubles and money with upgrading and changing out my system. I just want to see what other people think is the "proper" premium to pay for the better performance of 802D over the 803D. That's all.

ray5: We are probably talking about the same dealer.

[ray5]

For some reason I thought it is not allowed to mention B&W prices on a public forum. Apparently I was too paranoid.

Anyway, I am offered $6800 for the open box 803D. The brand-new 802D is listed at $14000. Based on personal experience with the dealer I think I can get at least 10% discount, if not more.

No I do not think the dealer is going out of business. I have been buying from them and there is nothing fishy or tricky or anything like that. Yes they are always trying to get me to buy more expensive stuff, but I actually have a lot of respect for them. If anything, I blame them for not being persuasive enough initially and get me to buy the 803D from the get-go. : That would have saved me all the troubles and money with upgrading and changing out my system. I just want to see what other people think is the "proper" premium to pay for the better performance of 802D over the 803D. That's all.

ray5: We are probably talking about the same dealer.

We probably are. I think that is a fantastic price for a 803D. The prices are on easily available web searches. I apologize if that is the rule but I guess it was getting confusing without the actual numbers. Good luck kmcheng.

[KyaDawn]

That's a good price for the 803D, but your dilemma should really be how much do you want the 802Ds, and how much it would be worth it to you to get the improvement. If you don't think there's a huge difference between the two, then the discounted 803Ds are the obvious choice. If the 802Ds provide a sound you can't live without and you would never be satisfied with the 803Ds, then it doesn't matter how much of a discount you get on the 803Ds. Most likely, it's probably somewhere in the middle of these two scenarios, and it's really mostly a personal choice. If it was me, I would get the 802Ds. Other people would jump at the discounted 803Ds. The only thing you need to know from us is the 803Ds are at a good price if in fact they are "brand new".