B&W 803D Versus 802D Review

[beden1]

Well, I spent over 3 hours at the Classe/B&W dealer today to demo the SSP-800 for the first time, as well as to compare the 803Ds to the 802Ds once again.

For this post, I eliminated the section of my Classe SSP-800 review that I posted in the Classe Forum section.

I really like their Sales Rep at this prominent high line 90%+ audio store. He's about 50, and along with selling audio gear, he's an active musician in a band and has been involved with live bands and orchestras since grade school. He also likes a lot of the same music as me. He was very helpful, and is extremely knowledgable regarding how music should sound, and with the nuances of audio equipment and systems.

On a side note, this store has more audio equipment then I have seen in one place for many years. They have about 10+ rooms full of all kinds of great gear. What a candy store for an audiohaulic. :T

Their demo setup included a Classe CDP-202, CAM-400s, the SSP-800, and God only knows what speaker cables they use that were the diameter of copper pipes. I'm sure the interconnects were also top shelf.

The CD I brought is Brian Wilson's "That Lucky Old Sun". IMO, his voice is tailor made for comparing the mid range frequencies. His music also uses a full orchestra and an expanded percussion section that gives a good workout throughout the scales. Overall, I think this is a great CD to demo new components and speakers. One of the guys there is a big Brian Wilson fan who came in to listen with me for part of the time. I donated the CD to the store as he looked like a sad puppy when I was about to leave with it in the end.

We first discussed the differences in my system versus what we were going to listen to during the demo. He really likes my CAM-350's, and felt they were bolder in the bass ranges versus the CAM-400s. He felt the CAM-400's would tend to be a bit sweeter in the highs. The CD players were probably going to be on par. I have a CP-500 pre-amp versus the new SSP-800. My room has a live performance sound, versus their room that has a flat response to the point of maybe being a bit too controlled. The 803Ds are what we used first, as this is what I have in my system for the mains.

The 803Ds versus the 802Ds.

I was very pleased by the performance of the 803Ds. They were well defined throughout the ranges, and in particular, I was impressed with the lower bass output in their flat room.

For the first time, I also loved the 802Ds. This awakening that I had for these speakers may have been realized because I was now listening to them with a CD player, as opposed to a music server.

I also listened to the entire CD through the 802Ds as I had through the 803Ds. Their sounds are both characteristic B&W. The addictive detail, engulfing yet focused sound stage, full body and sweet highs. My basic impression remains in that the 803Ds are best suited for Rock N' Roll, and the 802Ds are best suited for jazz and orchestra music.

The 803Ds seem to be not as silky smooth in the mid ranges as are the 802Ds. The 802Ds are more polite versus the 803Ds that have a bit more raw character. I sensed the 802Ds have a fuller body of sound, but this is not to say the 803Ds are lacking in this area. I actually liked to hear Brian Wilson's aged raspy like male voice through the mid range of the 803Ds over the 802Ds. But, we picked up that the 802Ds accentuated more detail with the background sounds of instruments like the wood blocks and some other esoteric percussion instruments. There was not much in the way of female voices in this CD, but I would imagine the 802Ds may shine in this area as well. The lower bass output of the 803Ds seemed to have more punch, but the 802Ds seemed to fill out the lower and mid bass a bit fuller overall.

I think they are both very good speakers. The Sales Rep feels the 803Ds are the sweet spot in the B&W line-up. We both love the 800Ds. He also said the Signature Diamonds are possibly their best sounding speaker, and only lack the full bass of the 800Ds by any comparison. He felt they were absolutely the best in the mids and highs. I found this interesting, but not enough to want to spend more time listening to them. From what he said, it would be difficult to match the Signature Diamonds with a center channel speaker for HT, and that they are best suited for a discriminating stereo set-up in a smaller listening room.

At any rate, my listening experience was extremely enlightening and enjoyable. I am looking forward to adding the SSP-800 to my system, and if anyone hears me out there in cyberspace, please offer me a great deal so I can also add a pair of 802Ds!

All I can say is that ShadowZA must be really enjoying his great system. ;x(

[ShadowZA]

Thanks for your detailed and informative review, Beden1. Oh, how I would have loved to be there with you guys. I agree that the 803D's represent one amazing sweet spot (which explains the reason that I did struggle somewhat to "separate" with them as front ends). The 802D's? ... well .... they're ... um ... amazing.

Please don't do a review of the 800D's :twisted: :B :twisted: (just joking, of course)

[style]

Hallo Beden1,

The ssp800 is a great well? I have your ssp800 in little time or what? or you will wait the new decoding before buy?

802D--> they are your head (devil inside), your next pictures will be with a setup frontmains 802D....

Beden I have write to you in the PM. over the system 5 or 7 channel...
and yourself have chequed by the B&W Dealer that the system was in 5 channel correct?

Like ShadowZA my "Best" is the 802D. sure if you have a dedicated room with isolation and,and, make a difference from the 2 speakers (803d and 802d) and
too with the same speaker in the 2 "room" I can feel the difference.....
marlan head? I go this week end the listen by my friend a 801D with a Plinius ampli and Classe... :T
I give you my opinion

If you have a concact with God and the 802D coming with the SSP800 make
this order for me too :B

Omar

[MikeFL52]

A local store (one of the few left in Central Florida where you can audition equipment) was having a "private sale" for previous buyers so I went along and critically listened for 2+ hours to the 802D and 803D speakers and ended up ordering the 803Ds (for a very good price - the B&W rep was there so I assume that this was an agreed price reduction).

I am not going to try and say that the 803D sounded better than the 802D, just that it sounded different, the 802D was more forward (or the 803D more laid back) in the mid range. Was the 802D more detailed; probably; but they both sounded absolutely excellent and quite a move up from my current B&W 804s.

I went in wanting the 802Ds however after listening I just could not pay the extra money for the sound difference, maybe in another 10 years I will consider whatever the replacement for the 802D is at that time.

Just want to comment on amplifiers and power to drive top end B&W speakers. I listened to them with McIntosh amps both the 501s and a beautiful tube amp (275). The 501s are 500W monoblocks, the 275 is a 2-channel 75W tube amp. The 75W tube amp had absolutely no problem driving the B&Ws and if anything sounded better than the 501s. My point is that in the forums you read a lot about needing gobs of power to drive B&W speakers, but I think it is more to do with the quality of the power and how stable the amp is under all load conditions. I will be driving mine with my trusty Anthem Statement P5 amp.

[beden1]

Just want to comment on amplifiers and power to drive top end B&W speakers. I listened to them with McIntosh amps both the 501s and a beautiful tube amp (275). The 501s are 500W monoblocks, the 275 is a 2-channel 75W tube amp. The 75W tube amp had absolutely no problem driving the B&Ws and if anything sounded better than the 501s. My point is that in the forums you read a lot about needing gobs of power to drive B&W speakers, but I think it is more to do with the quality of the power and how stable the amp is under all load conditions. I will be driving mine with my trusty Anthem Statement P5 amp.

Congratulations, and I'm sure you will enjoy your new 803Ds. The topic of power requirements have been discussed in depth on this and other forums. But, the comparison you used between the 501s and the 275 may not be a difference in the wattage output, but more to do with the 275 tube amp throughputs more voltage.

I would love to listen to the McIntosh 275 with the B&W Signature Diamonds. I think that would be a great combo. :T

[beden1]

Hallo Beden1,

The ssp800 is a great well? I have your ssp800 in little time or what? or you will wait the new decoding before buy?

802D--> they are your head (devil inside), your next pictures will be with a setup frontmains 802D....

Beden I have write to you in the PM. over the system 5 or 7 channel...
and yourself have chequed by the B&W Dealer that the system was in 5 channel correct?

Like ShadowZA my "Best" is the 802D. sure if you have a dedicated room with isolation and,and, make a difference from the 2 speakers (803d and 802d) and
too with the same speaker in the 2 "room" I can feel the difference.....
marlan head? I go this week end the listen by my friend a 801D with a Plinius ampli and Classe... :T
I give you my opinion

If you have a concact with God and the 802D coming with the SSP800 make
this order for me too :B

Omar

Omar,

I would love to legitimately demo the 801Ds. I have heard them, but not for any duration.

I remember a dealer saying to me last month, that the 801Ds are best suited for jazz. He said it's difficult to marry the highs and mid ranges with the large diameter bass speaker. Maybe you can keep this in mind when you listen to them. I would be interested in your thoughts.

It was the only time when someone actually gave me an explanation more than "we don't like the 801Ds"! Those kinds of comments are really not too helpful.

I listened to the SSP-800 in stereo mode only.

[wettou]

More we always want more , Ok so we should all get 800D each powered with CA-M400 :T

[beden1]

Please don't do a review of the 800D's :twisted: :B :twisted: (just joking, of course)

Ah! . . . the 800Ds are wonderful. But, Ive decided they are too big/deep in size for my room, and I don't want to have to deal with the idea of mating them with the HTM1D, etc.

I would definitely want the 800Ds if I had a dedicated stereo setup. :T

[style]

hy Beden,

I give my feed back....

But the top Point is that a dedicated room with panel/ sonic absorber make the REALLY difference between a listen from 80XD in every situation!!!


--> PM. Your speakers is the 802D (and for me too) :T :T

omar

[beden1]

hy Beden,

I give my feed back....

But the top Point is that a dedicated room with panel/ sonic absorber make the REALLY difference between a listen from 80XD in every situation!!!


--> PM. Your speakers is the 802D (and for me too) :T :T

omar

Hi Omar,

You're right about the room being right to get the most out of your speakers. I can't do a dedicated room at this point, so we can both dream about someday adding the 802Ds!

Maybe we can put a Global order together for a big discount? :B

[garak]

Hi Omar,

You're right about the room being right to get the most out of your speakers. I can't do a dedicated room at this point, so we can both dream about someday adding the 802Ds!

Maybe we can put a Global order together for a big discount? :B

Let's see, who else has 803Ds? Gump are you in?

I see an order for 4 pairs of 802Ds for some lucky dealer in the future.

[Pedro]

I would love to legitimately demo the 801Ds. I have heard them, but not for any duration.[

Heard them but without any duration, what do you mean ?? hehehehe

If you heard just 1, 2, 3 minutes whatever say what you thought about them, and go to listen them again if necessary. I´ve just bring to home last weekend a pair of Rosenut. I will probably turn on this week when the amps arrive. I don´t think they are suited for jazz, they are hard to get speed in the large woofer and that´s why they need so much power above 600W!! The 803D could be the most easy to amplify, but his midrange lacks the detail of the big brothers Marlan Head IMO.

I´ve heard 801D and 800D not side by side. The 800D could be a little more fast, but lacks the deep bass of 801D wich the rockers and metalians will always need

[beden1]

Heard them but without any duration, what do you mean ?? hehehehe

If you heard just 1, 2, 3 minutes whatever say what you thought about them, and go to listen them again if necessary.

I didn't listen to them with an ear that I would want them due to their size, so I really didn't formulate an impression either way.

I only listened for a few minutes when the dealer was testing them for a customer who had ordered them for his home. They were fresh out of the box.

From what I remember, the bass was strong as I like.

[KyaDawn]

Great thread! My wife and I just auditioned the 802Ds, 803Ds and the 804Ss this weekend. The components in the demo room from the CD player to the pre-amp to the power amps were all Classé. We started with the 804Ss, which sounded decent, but right away I noticed the soundstage was a bit muddled, and that it was lacking a bit with the bass. Somewhat disappointing, because we were seriously considering the 804Ss.

Next, we listened to the 803Ds, which blew us away. Absolutely stellar soundstage, full, voluptuous bass, and incredible detail. We listened to a variety of CDs, from female jazz vocals to "Dark Side of the Moon", and everything sounded brilliant. This set the bar, and effectively crossed the 804Ss off from our list. With the performance of the 803Ds, that got us excited to listen to the 802Ds. We were careful to only listen to tracks that we had already heard on the previous speakers, so that we could compare them as best as we could.

After hearing the first track on the 802Ds, and then changing CDs, we were shocked that we found the 802Ds nearly identical with the 803Ds. Perhaps the huge difference between the 804Ss and the 803Ds affected our expectations, but we really thought we would hear more of a difference between the 802Ds and the 803Ds, particularly with the Marlan head of the 802D that is lacking with the 803Ds.

My wife actually thought there was slightly better imaging with the 803Ds on some tracks, particularly for the jazz CDs. Specifically, she thought she could image the "height" of the instruments better with the 803Ds. I was thinking perhaps it's an illusion from the extra driver that the 803D has over the 802D, but that is what she heard.

In any case, from listening to these three speakers, we are very much leaning on purchasing the 803Ds. For a while, I did fantasize about purchasing the 802Ds, particularly from its reputation and what I've read online about the difference the Marlan head makes over the 803Ds, but now that I've auditioned them together, it's hard for me to justify purchasing the 802Ds with the additional cost, particularly since I really couldn't hear for myself a difference between the two speakers. If I do end up buying the 802Ds, it would probably be for aesthetic reasons, as I do think they look better than the 803Ds, even though I think the 803Ds looks great as well.

Coincidentally, after we auditioned these three speakers, we saw the Signature Diamonds in the room and asked if we could listen to them as well. The B&W rep obliged, and we listened to these speakers with a couple of CDs. My initial impression is that they sound a lot different from the 800 series. There seemed to be a bit more detail and transparency from these speakers, but the biggest difference from the 800 speakers we just heard was the bass, or the lack of it. The Signature Diamonds are smaller speakers by comparison with only 2 drivers, and while I thought it provided a decent amount of bass in light of its size and number of drivers, it surely cannot compare in terms of muscle with the 800 series. So altogether a totally different speaker and probably more of an "acquired taste" and more suitable to certain genres of music than others.

[sikoniko]

Sounds like a fun time. Nice that your wife goes along.

After hearing the first track on the 802Ds, and then changing CDs, we were shocked that we found the 802Ds nearly identical with the 803Ds. Perhaps the huge difference between the 804Ss and the 803Ds affected our expectations, but we really thought we would hear more of a difference between the 802Ds and the 803Ds, particularly with the Marlan head of the 802D that is lacking with the 803Ds.

My wife actually thought there was slightly better imaging with the 803Ds on some tracks, particularly for the jazz CDs. Specifically, she thought she could image the "height" of the instruments better with the 803Ds. I was thinking perhaps it's an illusion from the extra driver that the 803D has over the 802D, but that is what she heard.

In any case, from listening to these three speakers, we are very much leaning on purchasing the 803Ds. For a while, I did fantasize about purchasing the 802Ds, particularly from its reputation and what I've read online about the difference the Marlan head makes over the 803Ds, but now that I've auditioned them together, it's hard for me to justify purchasing the 802Ds with the additional cost, particularly since I really couldn't hear for myself a difference between the two speakers. If I do end up buying the 802Ds, it would probably be for aesthetic reasons, as I do think they look better than the 803Ds, even though I think the 803Ds looks great as well.

One question: Did you experiment with placement with the speakers? This can drastically change how the speakers perform. I never let the dealers place the speakers and I often try multiple locations before determining a prime spot.

[KyaDawn]

No, I didn't experiment with the placement of the speakers as I auditioned them at an official B&W dealer and I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing! The dealer did use the same spots for all 4 pairs of speakers, and used all the same equipment to drive them.

[sikoniko]

No, I didn't experiment with the placement of the speakers as I auditioned them at an official B&W dealer and I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing! The dealer did use the same spots for all 4 pairs of speakers, and used all the same equipment to drive them.

never assume a dealer knows what he is doing, especially when your money is at the table.

[beden1]

No, I didn't experiment with the placement of the speakers as I auditioned them at an official B&W dealer and I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing! The dealer did use the same spots for all 4 pairs of speakers, and used all the same equipment to drive them.

Nice review and very much appreciated. I think these types of reviews from actual listeners/end users can be helpful for all of us to maybe have a reference point while doing our own auditions, and to help plan our budgets.

I found the differences between the 803Ds and the 802Ds to be very subtle as did you and your wife. Both of these speakers are very good, and it's just a matter of degrees between one another.

Your B&W dealer did the right thing by swapping each speaker into the same listening position as before. This way, you were legitimately able to hear the differences between each speaker, and comparing apples to apples in positioning.

Yea, maybe if you played around with positioning for a while, you might find spot where a speaker would sound better, but, each of the speakers would gain the same benefit, so the issue is kind of moot.

[sikoniko]

Nice review and very much appreciated. I found the differences between the 803Ds and the 802Ds to be very subtle as did you and your wife. Both of these speakers are very good, and it's just a matter of degrees between one another.

Your B&W dealer did the right thing by swapping each speaker into the same listening position as before. This way, you were legitimately able to hear the differences between each speaker, and comparing apples to apples in positioning.

Yea, maybe if you played around with positioning for a while, you might find spot where a speaker would sound better, but, each of the speakers would gain the same benefit, so the issue is kind of moot.

lets just agree to disagree. everyone has different tastes. If the differences were subtle, noone would justify the extra expense.

When I am auditioning something, I never let the dealer run the demo. Its my money and my tastes. I also never assume that the dealer is any more than a salesman. There is no such thing as an official b&w dealer. either you are a dealer or you arent.

I don't doubt what was heard or experienced and I'm not questioning anyone. I am suspect of the variables of the demo though, as IMO, the differences between the 803d and 802d are not subtle when it comes to imaging. perhaps they sound similar, but the soundstage is not.

[beden1]

lets just agree to disagree. everyone has different tastes. If the differences were subtle, noone would justify the extra expense.

I don't doubt what was heard or experienced and I'm not questioning anyone. I am suspect of the variables of the demo though, as IMO, the differences between the 803d and 802d are not subtle when it comes to imaging. perhaps they sound similar, but the soundstage is not.

I think I agreed with your statement in my review, that the soundstage of the 802Ds is larger/fuller as compared to the 803Ds.

I didn't hear any difference in the imaging, however.

[Pedro]

i have never compared 802D with the big brothers (801D and 800D). But being the same Marlan Head, and probably crossovers, do they sound similar in the midrange???

[beden1]

lets just agree to disagree. everyone has different tastes. If the differences were subtle, noone would justify the extra expense.

Actually, I just remembered what two dealers said to me about selling the 803Ds versus the 802Ds. Both said they had a much easier time moving customers up the ladder from the 803Ds to the 802Ds when there was only a 3-$4,000 difference. Their job is much more difficult now that the difference is $5,000. The $5,000 number must have crossed to the other side of the glass ceiling.

Both had a kind of smile on their face too, when they were reminiscing about the good ole' days!

[beden1]

i have never compared 802D with the big brothers (801D and 800D). But being the same Marlan Head, and probably crossovers, do they sound similar in the midrange???

I had spent considerable time auditioning the 800Ds several months ago, but I didn't compare them directly to the 802Ds during the same listening sessions.

Rebelman has shown that the crossovers are better on the 800Ds versus the other speakers in the 800 Diamond Series.

The marlan head including the mid range speaker and the tweeter are the same dimensions between the 800D and the 802D. The primary difference is in the bass drivers, the crossovers, the cabinet size/depth and plinth.

From my memory, the 800D is everything that I want in a speaker with it's big soundstage and deep full bass output.

But, maybe someone can do a side-by-side comparison and give us a review.

The 800D also has about a $23-24,000 list versus the $14,000 list for the 802D, and $9,000 list for the 803D.

[Kal Rubinson]

i have never compared 802D with the big brothers (801D and 800D). But being the same Marlan Head, and probably crossovers, do they sound similar in the midrange???

Very similar. Since I have not had them in my listening room at the same time, I cannot comment very specifically.

Kal

[KyaDawn]

lets just agree to disagree. everyone has different tastes. If the differences were subtle, noone would justify the extra expense.

When I am auditioning something, I never let the dealer run the demo. Its my money and my tastes. I also never assume that the dealer is any more than a salesman. There is no such thing as an official b&w dealer. either you are a dealer or you arent.

I don't doubt what was heard or experienced and I'm not questioning anyone. I am suspect of the variables of the demo though, as IMO, the differences between the 803d and 802d are not subtle when it comes to imaging. perhaps they sound similar, but the soundstage is not.

Well if the dealer was trying to set up the demo so to convince me to buy the more expensive 802Ds, then he failed miserably! :B

Your argument would make more sense if the 802Ds completely out-shined the 803Ds in the audition, but they did not. In fact, I went into the audition with serious thought about purchasing the 802Ds and thinking the demo would "seal the deal", which is why I came away so shocked that I found very little difference between the 802Ds and 803Ds.

Perhaps if I spent more hours and demoed a wider range of music genres, I might come away with hearing the differences between the two speakers that you obviously do. But then again, I went into the audition with my own CDs and CDs which represent the music I enjoy listening to, and under that criteria, the speakers performed nearly identical to me.

Like you said, this is "my money and my tastes", so no amount of selling from the dealer or opinions I read online is going to convince me that the 802Ds is worth the extra costs FOR ME. No, that would be a decision I make solely by myself, and like I said, the only reason for me to choose the 802Ds at this time is for aesthetic reasons, which may not be the reason to buy a speaker, but then again, it's entirely up to me as it is "my money and my tastes".

As for the dealer, they are the only B&W dealer here in Hong Kong where I live, and they sell exclusively B&W speakers, and Classé and Rotel electronics. They have been at their location for as long as I've been remember using the same demo rooms, so if after all this time, they haven't found the prime sweet spot in the room, I'm not sure how much better luck I would have in a couple of hours! :B

P.S. The name of the "dealer" is "B&W Group Asia Ltd". I think perhaps that would qualify them as having more than a casual knowledge of B&W products! :rofl:

[style]

Hy,

Always said that the 803D is a big speaker!!!

the jump from a 804/803s to 803D make a really and big difference versus a
803D to 802D.... (the difference from the 802D and 803D is little vs. the BIG jump from 803S and 803D.....)

Ok, we can make a mega order from 802D.. we make 30% from the brutto price?

well the next monday I have the B&W at home the set the SSP800 with the CA5200 and a complet system controll (they come with the good to me!!!) :B :B :B (I need a XLR cables --> soon at possible!!)

Beden I give you a feed back from the listen from the 801D (set from my freind with a Plinius ampli - 2channel in a dedicated room - full acoustic treatment)
I dont have never listen the 800D bud the 801D are really fantastic - sound amazing in HF and LF!!!! is a dream for me ;x(

well at today me "little" dream is the SSP800-CA5200 and my 803D - HTM2D- 805S next: a paar of Velo subwoofer, 802D? yes but not my first thought.

I go make a pictures from the B&W man at work....--> I wait the new rack!!


Omar

[sikoniko]

Like you said, this is "my money and my tastes", so no amount of selling from the dealer or opinions I read online is going to convince me that the 802Ds is worth the extra costs FOR ME. No, that would be a decision I make solely by myself, and like I said, the only reason for me to choose the 802Ds at this time is for aesthetic reasons, which may not be the reason to buy a speaker, but then again, it's entirely up to me as it is "my money and my tastes".

You're right. You have to do what is best for you. :T

Do you already have your electronics?

[beden1]

Does anyone remember the list price of the 802Ds before B&W had their price increase last November-December? The price increase they said was due to the currency imbalance between the USD and the EURO.

[wettou]

Well the next monday I have the B&W at home the set the SSP800 with the CA5200 and a complet system controll (they come with the good to me!!!) I go make a pictures from the B&W man at work....--> I wait the new rack!! Omar

Where are the pictures? Is it all that you expected

[htsteve]

Does anyone remember the list price of the 802Ds before B&W had their price increase last November-December? The price increase they said was due to the currency imbalance between the USD and the EURO.

$12,000 USD per pair before the price increase.

[beden1]

$12,000 USD per pair before the price increase.

Thanks for the help.

[Miyuki]

Hi,
Talking about speakers must be the most male dominated discipline on earth, but here I am a female, who knows very little about audio but wants the best out of those boxes.
Well, I really wanted to buy 802Ds just for their looks as they would look nice with my black Dior bag. My room is, however, a very small Japanese room about 20 square meters so I finally bought 803D with HTM2D. I listened to both and I liked 802D better, but not as much as I would look for a new apartment with a larger room and depend on piano movers to move those elephants around.

Current setup
HTM1 (center)
N803 (fronts)
N805 (rear)
Denon (Receiver) AVP A1HD
Denon (Power amp) POA A1HD
Kimber cable 4VS (don’t laugh, I know they are very low end)

Upgrading to
HTM2D (center)
803 D (fronts)
N803 (rear)
Denon (Receiver) AVP A1HD
Denon (Power amp) POA A1HD
Cables: Audioquest Rockefeller for fronts and center
Kimber 4VS for rears.

[beden1]

Hi,
Talking about speakers must be the most male dominated discipline on earth, but here I am a female, who knows very little about audio but wants the best out of those boxes.
Well, I really wanted to buy 802Ds just for their looks as they would look nice with my black Dior bag. My room is, however, a very small Japanese room about 20 square meters so I finally bought 803D with HTM2D. I listened to both and I liked 802D better, but not as much as I would look for a new apartment with a larger room and depend on piano movers to move those elephants around.

Current setup
HTM1 (center)
N803 (fronts)
N805 (rear)
Denon (Receiver) AVP A1HD
Denon (Power amp) POA A1HD
Kimber cable 4VS (don’t laugh, I know they are very low end)

Upgrading to
HTM2D (center)
803 D (fronts)
N803 (rear)
Denon (Receiver) AVP A1HD
Denon (Power amp) POA A1HD
Cables: Audioquest Rockefeller for fronts and center
Kimber 4VS for rears.

It's nice to know there are at least a few of the fairer sex who appreciate quality sound. That's a great system you've put together. How do you like your Denon AVP A1HD?

I'll be interested in learning your impressions of the 802Ds versus the 803Ds, and how the 803Ds sound once you get them set up in your apartment.

[garak]

Hi,
Talking about speakers must be the most male dominated discipline on earth, but here I am a female, who knows very little about audio but wants the best out of those boxes.
Well, I really wanted to buy 802Ds just for their looks as they would look nice with my black Dior bag. My room is, however, a very small Japanese room about 20 square meters so I finally bought 803D with HTM2D. I listened to both and I liked 802D better, but not as much as I would look for a new apartment with a larger room and depend on piano movers to move those elephants around.

Current setup
HTM1 (center)
N803 (fronts)
N805 (rear)
Denon (Receiver) AVP A1HD
Denon (Power amp) POA A1HD
Kimber cable 4VS (don’t laugh, I know they are very low end)

Upgrading to
HTM2D (center)
803 D (fronts)
N803 (rear)
Denon (Receiver) AVP A1HD
Denon (Power amp) POA A1HD
Cables: Audioquest Rockefeller for fronts and center
Kimber 4VS for rears.

Hi Miyuki,

I work in software development - I think there are even fewer women interested in that field.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, and that's quite a nice system you've put together.

[misterdoggy]

Miyuki,

Welcome to the forum of the Obsessed

You will hear an improvement with the changes in speakers, but if It was me I would change my sources before speakers.

Denon is OK , but you will hear more of an improvement with better Amps and sources than the smaller differences you will hear stepping up to newer models.

I've owned the htm1 and htm2d and now own a htm1d, but although the htm2d is a truly great performer, it needs proper Amp to drive it correctly and to its limits.

You might want to check some more upscale brands like classe, Parasound, levinson, mcintosh etc even if they are used.

You will hear BIG differences with your speakers which are already pretty good.

In other words speaker upgrade some improvement, Source and Amp upgrade much improvement in your case (IMHO)

best of luck what ever you decide :T

[ShadowZA]

Welcome to the forum, Miyuki ... and congratulations on your upgrade. :T

In my humble opinion you've effected a perfect speaker upgrade. The reasons are as follows:

1. You've upgraded your front soundstage to diamond tweeters. I would say that the change from aluminium dome tweeters to diamond dome tweeters is much more of a sizable upgrade than the change from say the 803D's to the 802D's.

2. The HTM2D is the perfect match to the 803D's.

I don't know much about the Denon POA A1HD amp, but from what I've read, it has decent enough specs and can double its output when driving a 4 ohm load. Given that, this amp should be able to drive your speakers without too much effort.

Wishing you many hours of audio bliss.

[SeaNile]

Any experience in using an Emotiva XPA-5 (200Wx5) amp with the 803d's and corresponding center? I am beginning to think the 803d's would be a great upgrade for my HT setup.

--JK

https://www.seanile31.com

[Miyuki]

Many thanks to your kind replies and I feel welcomed,

My room
My Japanese listening room is acoustically very good with thick straw mats that eat most of the sound wibrations. In the back I have a closet full of futons（Japanese folded beds）. I have neighbors and can’t play as loud as I need in order to fully appreciate 802Ds. Would I have a 30+ square meters room and no neighbors with no plans to move, cherry 802D is the way to go w/o hesitation. Again, they look nice, very nice in a Japanese room.

Sound
I listened to Enya, ABBA, “Phanton of the Opera” (to check male and female voices and the mix between), electronic music (to put those tweeters to their limits), lots of Chopin, early Beatles (to know how those handle imperfect recordings). I concentrated on tweeter and midrange performance. As I said, I don’t know much about specs, electronics of physics behind, thus it is just a pure listening evaluation. I was very impressed with those 803Ds despite of the fact that I listened to them using a Marranz multichannel separates with monster cables, which are lower grade than my Denon AVP/POA and the cables I am going to get. Disregarding looks, performance/price ratio wise 803Ds is higher than 802D for me. 803Ds are breathtaking and I love them.

Amp
In Japan, Denon is quite cheap compared with imported brands and I could afford their best multi-channel combo. Mctoshes are surely lovely by looks and performance, but they are very expensive here relatively to Japanese amp makes. I was using a Denon 5803 receiver before I upgraded to AVP/POA separates. The improvement was huge and I am indeed very happy with the upgrade. Enough for me in my small room and I don’t need a heater anymore!

Cables :unsure:
The most difficult and agonizing step in upgrading is selecting suitable speaker cables!
The dealer upgraded my Audioquest Rockefeller (2m) to Audioquest Gibraltar2 (3m) cables w/o extra cost simply because I wanted longer cables. What’s written in cable brochures sounds like nonsense and requires a PhD degree in physics to know whether it is true or not. The cables have a strange device with a battery to do some magic inside the cable. The dealer told me that they are better cables but I don’t know a thing about cables. My favorite brand is actually Kimber and I wanted something like Monocle because those snakes are simple plan black – beautiful – without strange devices attached to them. Anyway, if Gibraltar2 cables sound better than monster cables I am OK for now.

My question is: How important is it that the specs of the center channel cable matches the cables to the fronts? What cables do you think is best with regards to performance/price ratio for 802Ds or 803Ds?

Miyuki,
:brunette:

[ShadowZA]

Miyuki, in order to answer your first question one would need to ask:

Do you use your hi-fi/home theatre system mainly for audio or for movies or equally for both? If your main passion is to use your system for critical listening over and above anything else then one would want to pose the further question: How do you prefer to listen? In two channel only? Or in multichannel?

If you mainly prefer two channel listening then I would say that quality cabling to your 803D's (left & right fronts) would be more important. That being said, I would not neglect quality cabling to your HTM2D centre. Bear in mind that when playing multichannel music/movies the HTM2D becomes the most important speaker in that it becomes the "voice" channel. You would want to hear voices as detailed as possible and in so saying you might find that quality matching cables feeding all three of your front speakers might just be the best way to go.

If you view my profile, you'll notice that I use slightly thinner cabling for my HTM2D.

I'm not too knowledgeable regarding cable brands, so am unable to assist you with your second question. Apology for that.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[William]

Any experience in using an Emotiva XPA-5 (200Wx5) amp with the 803d's and corresponding center? I am beginning to think the 803d's would be a great upgrade for my HT setup.

--JK
www.seanile31.com

I use a XPA-5 with my 803D's, HTM2D, and 804's. It is a great neutral sounding amp that complements the diamonds quit well. Plenty of power and even runs cool to the touch after a >90dB listening session.

[Miyuki]

Shadow,

I saw your profile with your setup.... AMAZING!!!! I love what you have and I can only dream of having such a high-end setup with 802Ds in the front and 803D as rears. Krell amp is surely better than Denon too. Indeed cherry speakers are the best looking and our tastes are the same! Congratulations!

What is your mix of stereo and multichannel listening? I am going to listen to multichannel 92Khz PCM based music a lot from now on running my blue-rays on a PS3.

Cheers,
Miyuki
:brunette:

[beden1]

Miyuki,

IMO, just go with these in 10 guage and save yourself a lot of money.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

I had expensive cables like you are describing and they actually caused problems with my amps. I also use the locking banana plugs listed on this page as well.

[ShadowZA]

Thank you, Miyuki.

At this time my preference is 80% stereo listening (playing CD's) and 20% multichannel (music/movies on standard DVD).

I've held back from buying a Blu-ray player for the time being. My main reasons for this are firstly to allow the hardware (players) to imbed themselves a little more and secondly to allow some time for enough music discs to appear. I don't know if I can hold out any longer though. I hope to look into it in 2009. I'm certain that your 92KHz PCM based multichannel music Blu-ray discs are going to sound awesome. In fact I have a feeling that once you've listened, there will be no going back to anything else.

My hope is that the music industry takes full advantage of the Blu-ray format.

Enjoy the music!

[garak]

My question is: How important is it that the specs of the center channel cable matches the cables to the fronts? What cables do you think is best with regards to performance/price ratio for 802Ds or 803Ds?

Miyuki,
:brunette:

Miyuki,

It looks like we have fairly similar setups. I also have the 803D, HTM2D. I am also running AQ Gibraltar, but for my fronts and center. I do listen to a fair amount of multichannel music, and with the same cable for the center the timbres match.

However, you seem quite comfortable using your ear to make determinations, which IMO is the best way to judge what is best anyway. So in this case, I'd suggest that you use your system as you normally would, and if you notice a timbre difference between the fronts and center, then perhaps you should change the center cable to Gibraltar as well.

[Miyuki]

Hi garak ,

The dealer is offering two 3m AQ Gibraltar2 cables so I better find a matching used 3m Gibraltar2 cable for my center to make all speakers exactly the same.

I am expecting my diamonds next week, but I have not settled down with cables yet. Should I consider paying a bit extra for AQ Mont Blanc or Kimber Monocole-X ... hmm.

Miyuki
:brunette: