Better equipment small speakers or big speakers and lesser equipment

[Tweir]

Okay I would like to see what everyone thinks about this. So would you consider having a pair of 805s with a classe cp500 and a ca2200 and cdp202 or even a cp700 with two ca2100's with cdp102 in a passive bi-amp. The same could be said about 805s with a mcintosh c46 and 402 with mcd201. Or having larger speakers like 802d's with only a cp2100 or ma6900 with the only source being a cdp102 or mcd201. So would you choose better equipment Mcintosh, Classe with smaller speakers (805s) or 802 with only an integrated.

[Tweir]

The extreme would be say 801d or 802d with Rotel. More money in the speakers and less in the amps, pre, source.

[Cactus]

Larger speakers / smaller equipment. The electronics you mention may be integrated pieces, but are top notch by most standards. You mention the MA6900, have you seen the brand new MA7000 @ 250wpc? Best looking integrated Mac ever!

802D + MA7000 = Nice!

[Tweir]

Yes, I have. I think that would be a C45 and a MC252 in one box. Like Classe cp-500 and the ca-2100 in one.

What about 801d's with Rotel Rb1091 x2 with a Rc1082 and rcd1072 vs Mcintosh Ma7000 with an mcd201 and 804's?

[Cactus]

That little Rotel stack is an unbelievable value for its performance. BUT, are you the kind of guy that would constantly be kicking yourself in the arse for not getting what you really want?

It's only money......you'll make more.

[Tweir]

There it is! Money.. Like my setup. I have 803ds with cam400's and cp500 and cdp102. I could have gotten a ca2200 and cdp202. I felt the better choice was in the amps over the source.

Here is a setup for you.
Mcintosh c2300 preamp and mc402 with mvp871 on pair of 805s.

VS

Rotel rc1082 and 2 rb1080's (passive bi-amp) with rdv1093 on pair of 801d's.

Both would be the same price.

[Cactus]

Fantastic.

We have very similar taste. My listening room sytem consists of 803D, cp500, c2200, and cdp102.

My living room system is 805S and Mac MA2275 and an older MCD205 (not such a great player, might look at the new MCD301 to keep the Mac look together.

[Tweir]

Well you have the best of both. The detail warmth depth and dynamics of the classe and 803d's. Then you have the intimate and accuracy of the 2-way system with the tubes. I have heard on many occasion the MA2275 and still can not believe the sound that integrated produces. I have heard on 802d's and 803d's and was really wowed by it. I can only imagine the enjoyment you get on the 805's with it.

I have heard the 301 is to be a very good player...

[DeepEndX]

Big speakers/Less equipment. I had Rotel RB 1090 amplifier and RC 1070 Pre driving B&W N801 at one point. Later on when I had more money, YES MONEY DOES MATTER, I upgraded to Krell components...

[Tweir]

Big speakers/Less equipment. I had Rotel RB 1090 amplifier and RC 1070 Pre driving B&W N801 at one point. Later on when I had more money, YES MONEY DOES MATTER, I upgraded to Krell components...

Did you enjoy the sound from the Rotel while you had?

[Tommy]

I am going for better equipment and small speakers. I think it really depends on what you listen to mostly. I listen to vocal, country, and blues with medium volume, never loud. So I think small speakers like the 805s will be better due to its simpler design and crossover. Plus, I don't have to deal with boomy base or use base trap.
I read somewhere people say that properly built 2 way speakers actually image better than 3 way speakers, again due to their simpler design. Less is more in this case.

[iiaudio]

Big speakers, lesser gear for me any day of the week.

[cug]

Big speakers, lesser gear for me any day of the week.

Dito. Differences in speakers are HUGE. Differences in equipment compared to that is small.

[DeepEndX]

Yes i did. I had the N803 and the differences between N801 were night and day. Later on I upgraded my amps to Krell. The differences between the amps were huge, but I believe the rate of return between the N803 and N801 were exponential.

[audioqueso]

It's only money......you'll make more.

That's a really good quote! I just kept laughing. :B

[scanido]

If there are no plans to upgrade further, I would get smaller speakers coupled with better electronics.

[wettou]

If you looks at music studios, monitors are usually very small speakers with separated large subwoofer. The idea is to keep the high and lows separated.

Now if you work at Abbey Road in Landon, that is an other story:

" Studio 3 and The Penthouse now feature systems comprising 5 x B&W 800D, 1 x ASW 855 and 10 x bi-amplified Classé CA-M400. The value of this outstanding reference system can already be appreciated through the superb sonics of early projects completed using it, including the recording and mixing of the musical scores to Star Wars, Episode III—Revenge of the Sith, and the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory."

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1621

I wished I could afford a system like that, talk about killer sound!

Total cost for this system (MSRP Speakers $57,500 + $50,000 for amps) Of course they didn't pay the retail price and better than dealers (discounted at 50% off) still a big chunk of cash.

[Tweir]

If there are no plans to upgrade further, I would get smaller speakers coupled with better electronics.

If smaller speakers which would you choose.

CAP-2100 with CDP-202 on 805s
or
CP700 with a pair of CA-2100 with CDP-202.

Do you think on the smaller 805s that there would be a difference in sound between the integrated or better with the pre and passive bi-amp on a pair of CA-2100...

[hifiguymi]

I'd get the CDP-202, CP-700, and a CA-2200. I'd bet the CA-2200 will sound better than two CA-2100's and be cheaper to boot.

Eric

[cug]

If smaller speakers which would you choose.

CAP-2100 with CDP-202 on 805s
or
CP700 with a pair of CA-2100 with CDP-202.

Do you think on the smaller 805s that there would be a difference in sound between the integrated or better with the pre and passive bi-amp on a pair of CA-2100...

Probably not. Only if you believe in it.

But I wouldn't get the 805S. In that case I'd get the 804S. CAP-2100 and a Classé CDP is fine if you want to spend a lot of money.

[wettou]

I would do 805S and CA-2200, too bad the 805 dont have the diamond tweeter!

[scanido]

I'd get the CDP-202, CP-700, and a CA-2200. I'd bet the CA-2200 will sound better than two CA-2100's and be cheaper to boot.

Eric

I agree with Eric. Better to get the bigger amp.

805S's on a CA-2200 would sound awesome!

[Mig17]

I am a fan of electronics rather speakers

[bigburner]

The difference between speakers is far greater than the difference between electronics, assuming that the electronic components are of a reasonable standard and the amplifier you are using to drive the speakers has a high input impedance, low output impedance, flat frequency response, low distortion, low noise floor and the power to drive them at the volume you want without clipping.

Or to put it into English, if you don't have money to burn, put more of your money into speakers and upgrade to fancy electronics when Great Aunt Maude dies and leaves you a bundle.

If you do have money to burn, or wearing shabby shoes doesn't worry you, then buy those fancy electronics now.

Nigel.

[ShadowZA]

In deciding between the 802D's (diamond tweeters) & 805's (not diamond tweeters) there is no question ... I'd go for the 802D's even if I have to wait 3 years to be able to afford better electronics to drive them with.

[DeepEndX]

That's exactly what I did. I was a happy owner of N801 with Rotel, and became an extreme delighted owner with Krell.

[btf1980]

Neither. Get electronics that match up and mate with your speakers. If you can't afford it, then save up until you can. I've seen some set-ups with $5K CDP's and $300 bookshelves. That's a person who either doesn't know what they are doing, or has their priorities messed up.

[george_k]

Neither. Get electronics that match up and mate with your speakers. If you can't afford it, then save up until you can. I've seen some set-ups with $5K CDP's and $300 bookshelves. That's a person who either doesn't know what they are doing, or has their priorities messed up.

If you look through the Montreal FSI show coverage on Stereophile you'll see that one of the better systems the Stereophile folks heard was a setup consisting of a Rogue Audio integrated, a pair of PSB bookshelfs (~$300) and a very expensive oracle turntable (I believe retail on that was ~$8k).

To the original poster I share with you this personal experience.

I started with a pair of B&W 603's which were powered by a relatively inexpensive NAD receiver. I then upgraded to 703's and continued using the receiver. Saw a NAD C272 poweramp for sale one day at a good price so I bought that. It made a huge difference over the receiver which was anemic in powering the 703's

At that point in time my speakers were worth just over double what the electronics powering the speakers were worth. I later added a Mac 6900 for fun and was completely blown away at how it took the sound to a whole different level, that day I put my NAD setup for sale and it was sold within a week.

Speakers upgrades will always make for a drastic change in sound but the accompanying electronic play a huge role as well.

[btf1980]

If you look through the Montreal FSI show coverage on Stereophile you'll see that one of the better systems the Stereophile folks heard was a setup consisting of a Rogue Audio integrated, a pair of PSB bookshelfs (~$300) and a very expensive oracle turntable (I believe retail on that was ~$8k).

Which makes one wonder what it would sound like with better speakers. (Note I am not necessarily equating more expensive with better, but more often than not, it is the case) However, if 90% of your budget is going on sources, and not a more sensible distribution between speakers, amplification, sources and lastly, cabling, then I think that person is going about it the wrong way.

[SoCalCM]

I bought 802Ds while I still had very modest electronics (Anthem AVM20, MCA 20). They replaced a pair of JMLab Micro Utopia Be standmount speakers -- which I still have and are the best standmount speakers I have ever heard, 805Ss included. But right away, even with the same electronics, the 802Ds were in a whole different class. Later I upgraded the electronics getting a Classe CA3200 amp which of course made the 802Ds sound even better. I have the Utopias in another room with a Krell 400xi integrated -- they sound wonderful but the 802D is just better, even when being powered by the Krell integrated (I ran this combo for a couple of weeks before buying the Classe). If its a choice between 805S and 802D, to me it's an obvious choice -- 802Ds all the way. There is a review by HiFiChoice of the 802D comparing them to the 805S that you should look at, its from 2005 and I think you can get to it from the B&W website, it is a very accurate review.

[BassThatHz]

Just look at the distortion ratings:
Speakers: 0.1 to 10%
Amps: 0.01 to 1%
Processors: 0.0001 to 0.009%

Better speakers gets you closer to perfection, unless you clip something and then it's a different story.

[scanido]

This case is a bit too extreme. If I got the 802D i would be opening up the doors to further expenses down the road, because at the end of the day, you KNOW you wont be doing any justice to those speakers running on sub par electronics. You'll want (need) to upgrade eventually.

As for the 805S combo, your setup will be complete.

I say set a budget for how much you want to throw away into this hobby today and in the future and start your system from there, keeping with your budget ll the time. If your budget allows for the 802D and better electronics later than go for it. There is NO question they are superior to the 805S.

[Antus]

i think the diminishing return kick in at different price point for component.

it's my opinion of course,

for speakers, once hit $5000-$6000 per speaker range. u will get smaller return. from 805s to 803s, double the money, (in my opinion) huge improvement. and again from 803s to 802D, double money, double performance. but go from 802D to 800D only give u little extra. (besides, the "improvement" are more likely resulting in better capacitors in the crossover of 800D)

for amps, it kick in much sooner. i will say $2-3000 per channel. anything above that will only give u little extra more.

EDIT: u have a very nice system. 803D and 2xM400. did you try 802D with CA2200 when u got ur system. i wonder how would u compare the 2 in performance. (since both system will cost exactly same money)

[Alaric]

Middle of the road on speaks and electronics , with good synergy , would be close to the best of both worlds. If you save money on watts RMS , get good , efficient , speakers. I'm running a paltry 95 wpc RMS if I crank it up. In reality , I probably rarely get out of Class A. (25 watts , advertised) With 91db efficiency speaks , I get very detailed sound , with good "punch".

Also , as a general rule , A/B watts are the norm , Class A watts are bigger , and tube watts are huge , and Class A tube watts clang when they walk . More current=more energy to the drivers.