Which electronics should I get with my B&W speakers?

[BWLover]

Room treatments definitly effect sound quality overall. I'm moving, so I took down all my treatment, and the difference was night and day. I didnt buy my treatment at my B&W dealer, as they only had really expensive brands. So I went over to my local music shop (like band equipment and Dj gear) and they had some good priced stuff. Primacoustic is that brand I have. You should try going to your dealer first, see what they have, and if its to much $$ find a local music shop and see what they have.

[KahunaCanuck]

Harmon Kardon recievers IMO are junk. Get a rotel reciever at least if you have b&w speakers

Don't ya think this is a little aggressive? I don't have Harmon Kardon gear, but I would never call any of today's receiver's "junk"...I appreciate that you like Rotel, but it isn't the only good sounding brand out there.

[emig5m]

Since I've loved the sound of my Yamaha 663 (combined with the Emotiva XPA-5) from my 600 series right up to the 800's, I was curious if the higher end Yamahas would provide me a better sound quality (more specifically for 2-channel bitstreamed CD-A). Someone on the AVS forum commented about going from the 663 to the 3900 and the sound is much more natural, refined and detailed. So I decided to go pick one up for myself and see. :B





Switching back and forth and back and forth listening to the same few songs over and over resulted in some disappointing conclusions.... Yes they do sound slightly different. The 3900 has less bass which makes it sound slightly forward in the upper end. The 663 has more and punchier bass (easily noticeable). I tried to listen for subtle details and they both seem to be identical. The 663 gives me a fuller sound with the same detail. The 3900 has.... you can't even count how many features.... but I don't even use all the features of the 663 so my main concern was the baseline sound quality which to my disappointment the receiver that cost $1000 didn't offer me any improvement and in fact I preferred the sound of the cheaper model. I thought that maybe it might be the firmware since I updated my 663 as soon as I got it so I updated the 3900 to the latest firmware (took 10 minutes to install, eek) and it didn't make any difference to the sound....

Well good news I have 30 days to return the 3900 for a full refund with no restocking fee and I'm saving $1500 I could put towards the matching bookshelf speakers for my 800 series kit. I really thought that a unit that cost $1000 more would have a boosted up baseline sound quality but it didn't. I don't know, I felt before that a cheap $400 unit just wouldn't cut it, especially with a higher end B&W 800 series speaker but somehow it does...heh.

Now I've listened to some high end stuff at my local dealer (one was a Krell stereo pre amp with home theater bypass) on 801D's and honestly for the price of the system I wasn't too impressed... But that's their room and their recordings (in which I never heard before). I should see if they have something I could bring home that 'should' put the Yamaha to shame for 2-channel music. So far the B&W speakers themselves has lived up to the hype for me, still very impressed with them. I'm also very impressed with the baseline sound quality of Yamaha 663 + Emotiva XPA-5 combo. I don't think you can get anymore bang for the buck for the price. It's just not happening. How such a cheap receiver is doing it for me I have no clue, heh, but so far I haven't heard anything overly impressive in the higher end units over what I have (I disliked what I heard on the 803D with a $9000 Classe power amp but that was determined to be room/setup).

Now back in the day when all the gear was transmitting their signals in the analog domain, yea, there was pretty noticeable difference between the low end and high end. But now that everything is pretty much bitstreamed digitally (well not vinyl, but I have no vinyl anyway), I'm just not hearing the big differences anymore....

What do you guys recommend me trying that will put my Yammie and Emo kit to shame for 2-channel CD-A? Krell has good bass punch I've read... but for the price it's going to have to be a night and day difference in clarity and detail too. Maybe I should just forget about it and enjoy what I already know I like and didn't cost me a arm and a leg, heh. :E

[emig5m]

Room treatments definitly effect sound quality overall. I'm moving, so I took down all my treatment, and the difference was night and day.

Oh yea it does... I ripped my room apart last weekend to install new flooring and just my voice alone sounded boxy and muddled with no absorption and dispersion with everything out of the room. I put a little decorative carpet on a bare piece of wall behind my listening position and just that one little tweak made a very noticeable difference - it was a pretty bad reflection spot. So it seems that speakers, placement, and room acoustics are the absolute most important things for having top notch sound....

[Hammie]

Since I've loved the sound of my Yamaha 663 (combined with the Emotiva XPA-5) from my 600 series right up to the 800's, I was curious if the higher end Yamahas would provide me a better sound quality (more specifically for 2-channel bitstreamed CD-A). Someone on the AVS forum commented about going from the 663 to the 3900 and the sound is much more natural, refined and detailed. So I decided to go pick one up for myself and see. :B





Switching back and forth and back and forth listening to the same few songs over and over resulted in some disappointing conclusions.... Yes they do sound slightly different. The 3900 has less bass which makes it sound slightly forward in the upper end. The 663 has more and punchier bass (easily noticeable). I tried to listen for subtle details and they both seem to be identical. The 663 gives me a fuller sound with the same detail. The 3900 has.... you can't even count how many features.... but I don't even use all the features of the 663 so my main concern was the baseline sound quality which to my disappointment the receiver that cost $1000 didn't offer me any improvement and in fact I preferred the sound of the cheaper model. I thought that maybe it might be the firmware since I updated my 663 as soon as I got it so I updated the 3900 to the latest firmware (took 10 minutes to install, eek) and it didn't make any difference to the sound....

Well good news I have 30 days to return the 3900 for a full refund with no restocking fee and I'm saving $1500 I could put towards the matching bookshelf speakers for my 800 series kit. I really thought that a unit that cost $1000 more would have a boosted up baseline sound quality but it didn't. I don't know, I felt before that a cheap $400 unit just wouldn't cut it, especially with a higher end B&W 800 series speaker but somehow it does...heh.

Now I've listened to some high end stuff at my local dealer (one was a Krell stereo pre amp with home theater bypass) on 801D's and honestly for the price of the system I wasn't too impressed... But that's their room and their recordings (in which I never heard before). I should see if they have something I could bring home that 'should' put the Yamaha to shame for 2-channel music. So far the B&W speakers themselves has lived up to the hype for me, still very impressed with them. I'm also very impressed with the baseline sound quality of Yamaha 663 + Emotiva XPA-5 combo. I don't think you can get anymore bang for the buck for the price. It's just not happening. How such a cheap receiver is doing it for me I have no clue, heh, but so far I haven't heard anything overly impressive in the higher end units over what I have (I disliked what I heard on the 803D with a $9000 Classe power amp but that was determined to be room/setup).

Now back in the day when all the gear was transmitting their signals in the analog domain, yea, there was pretty noticeable difference between the low end and high end. But now that everything is pretty much bitstreamed digitally (well not vinyl, but I have no vinyl anyway), I'm just not hearing the big differences anymore....

What do you guys recommend me trying that will put my Yammie and Emo kit to shame for 2-channel CD-A? Krell has good bass punch I've read... but for the price it's going to have to be a night and day difference in clarity and detail too. Maybe I should just forget about it and enjoy what I already know I like and didn't cost me a arm and a leg, heh. :E

Have you looked at the Emotiva USP-1 Stereo Pre-amp? I've heard there are people really loving it. :huh:

I'm personally using a Denon 3808 as my pre-amp with the same speakers you have. I plan on getting the XMC-1 when ever it gets released.

Have you tried different cabling? I was impatient when I first got my amp and just used some cheap component cables. I thought it sounded way too bright and was a little disappointed. Since I got my new IC's and the amp, speakers and cables have broken in some, it is far more neutral and sounds perfect and to my liking.

I'm thinking of playing with some treatments on the wall to see if that enhances the sound anymore. There's just so much to do and so little time.

[emig5m]

Have you looked at the Emotiva USP-1 Stereo Pre-amp? I've heard there are people really loving it. :huh:

I'm personally using a Denon 3808 as my pre-amp with the same speakers you have. I plan on getting the XMC-1 when ever it gets released.

Have you tried different cabling? I was impatient when I first got my amp and just used some cheap component cables. I thought it sounded way too bright and was a little disappointed. Since I got my new IC's and the amp, speakers and cables have broken in some, it is far more neutral and sounds perfect and to my liking.

I'm thinking of playing with some treatments on the wall to see if that enhances the sound anymore. There's just so much to do and so little time.

Yes I have considered the USP-1 (with a DAC as well since I bitstream losslessly from a media server and would need a DAC somewhere after my source) but there's this one problem with it that I don't think I could live with... when you use the full range outputs the home theater bypass doesn't work! If you want to use the bypass feature then you're basically forced to use your sub all the time! :E

I got different cables, but not because of anything to do with changing the sound quality. I had some of the Monoprice premium RCA's and half of them must of had a bad ground because they where causing a hum in my amp. I ordered some cable made to custom length from bluejeans cables and couldn't be happier with the quality.

I think for what I'm trying to do (take 2-channel CD-A to the next level of sound quality) I'm thinking the best way to go about it is a good stereo pre with a decent DAC with home theater bypass. It's too bad about the USP-1. Emotiva definitely make some very fine performing stuff for the price and I always look them up first to see if they offer something I need. I truly believed the XMC-1 would be out by now!

How do you like your Denon as far as sound quality? I was looking at them last night and even thought about taking a Denon home instead of another Yamaha. I think my Yamaha 663 is a steal for what the sound quality and features is. It's definitely one of the best sounding receivers I've owned to date - even ones costing three times more!

[Hammie]

Yes I have considered the USP-1 (with a DAC as well since I bitstream losslessly from a media server and would need a DAC somewhere after my source) but there's this one problem with it that I don't think I could live with... when you use the full range outputs the home theater bypass doesn't work! If you want to use the bypass feature then you're basically forced to use your sub all the time! :E

I got different cables, but not because of anything to do with changing the sound quality. I had some of the Monoprice premium RCA's and half of them must of had a bad ground because they where causing a hum in my amp. I ordered some cable made to custom length from bluejeans cables and couldn't be happier with the quality.

I think for what I'm trying to do (take 2-channel CD-A to the next level of sound quality) I'm thinking the best way to go about it is a good stereo pre with a decent DAC with home theater bypass. It's too bad about the USP-1. Emotiva definitely make some very fine performing stuff for the price and I always look them up first to see if they offer something I need. I truly believed the XMC-1 would be out by now!

How do you like your Denon as far as sound quality? I was looking at them last night and even thought about taking a Denon home instead of another Yamaha. I think my Yamaha 663 is a steal for what the sound quality and features is. It's definitely one of the best sounding receivers I've owned to date - even ones costing three times more!

I have the same BJC IC's and am very happy with them. I am considering, however, trying the Emotiva RCA's they just came out with. After the 25% current user discount, I would save myself almost $25 -- That's a movie or a SACD or CD .

I spent months listening and comparing receivers when I bought mine. I thought the Denon was a more warmer neutral sound (if that makes sense). I thought the Yamaha's were too bright and forward and the Onkyo's were too laid back. The Denon seemed to fit in the middle nicely. The Denon GUI is very nice but the Owner's Manual totally sucks. It is one of the most confusing things I have every read. In some places it was like they took a foreign language, put it through an online translator and put it in the manual without editing for making sense.

I love the Denon, but I do not need the internal amps and a Pre/Pro is usually a smaller footprint in height and would just give me a little more breathing room.

But, who knows what will happen. Only time will tell, I guess. :huh:

[51st8]

hello again Guys!

i have been reading on the others forums but no one could advise me which form: CM7, 683 or 684 speakers are better?
it is really important for me. i heard that cm7 are not really good without any reason and i cannot find anyone who could share his views about them 3 speakers, compare them. these speakers are nearly in the same price range and my budget allows me only for that. i wont go other makes because i'm using already 685 and i'm very glad to have them, my freinds are impressed about sound etc. i want to go floorstands.
i would be very pleased if someone could help me.

kind regards
chris
i have another question.

[emig5m]

hello again Guys!

i have been reading on the others forums but no one could advise me which form: CM7, 683 or 684 speakers are better?
it is really important for me. i heard that cm7 are not really good without any reason and i cannot find anyone who could share his views about them 3 speakers, compare them. these speakers are nearly in the same price range and my budget allows me only for that. i wont go other makes because i'm using already 685 and i'm very glad to have them, my freinds are impressed about sound etc. i want to go floorstands.
i would be very pleased if someone could help me.

kind regards
chris
i have another question.

I've read others opinions, but haven't heard in person myself that the CM7 is a little light on the bass compared to say, the 683. Probably not a problem if you're committed to using a sub for 2-channel. I have had both, the 685 and 683 in my room positioned in the same spot as mains - both are spectacular for what they each are (when the rest of the setup can back them up and let them run at full potential). If you're using a sub the main difference will be the FST midrange. The mids are much more open and clear. If you're not using a sub, you'll also have deeper and more strength in the bass. The equivalent CM series would be the CM9. In your budget range I would go 683 (but again I never heard the CM7 to compare - but you definitely want something with the FST midrange).

Oh and by the way - I wouldn't bother with the 684 coming off the 685. 685 + sub will smoke the 684 alone. (Yes I've also had the 684 in my room in the same spot as the 685/683). The 684 just has a little deeper and more bass hit, but no noticeable improvement in the midrange. I would just go with the 683 if I where you.

[51st8]

I've read others opinions, but haven't heard in person myself that the CM7 is a little light on the bass compared to say, the 683. Probably not a problem if you're committed to using a sub for 2-channel. I have had both, the 685 and 683 in my room positioned in the same spot as mains - both are spectacular for what they each are (when the rest of the setup can back them up and let them run at full potential). If you're using a sub the main difference will be the FST midrange. The mids are much more open and clear. If you're not using a sub, you'll also have deeper and more strength in the bass. The equivalent CM series would be the CM9. In your budget range I would go 683 (but again I never heard the CM7 to compare - but you definitely want something with the FST midrange).

Oh and by the way - I wouldn't bother with the 684 coming off the 685. 685 + sub will smoke the 684 alone. (Yes I've also had the 684 in my room in the same spot as the 685/683). The 684 just has a little deeper and more bass hit, but no noticeable improvement in the midrange. I would just go with the 683 if I where you.

thanks for your advise and reply Emig5m

unfortunately i cannot afford CM9. i wish to but i have the others expenses and my budget is a little bit narrow.
i was thinking about CM7 and 685 as rear surround for home cinema. for music 2.1 system. i do have a sub. its nothing special but it does the job (in some ways). i'm going to upgrade my sub, but i have to do all that step by step.
i have read that if you keep CM7's nicely off the walls and let bass breath then the bass is not such a big issue plus support from the sub.
anyway what sub you think i should looking for, for my setup.
i'll add that my AVR is HK 355. i don't know if my amp will supply with enough power to run them. but i ve been told on this forum and i think it was you i can use HK355 as a pre out and add power amp to my setup.

so... in short, do you think that CM7 plus 'some' better sub than i do have now would be alright?
or 683 will suit me better?
i'll find a dealer who can demo CM7 against 683for me.

one more question:
if i feel not enough power with my HK 355 can i do bi-amping the CM7 before i get new power amp?
it would be very handy advice.

thank you very much
kind regards
chris

[kmcheng]

The HK355 will be a limiting factor for you down the road. I personally think the CM7 (or 683) deserves something better, and I do not think bi-amping will improve the results. (Bi-amping itself is a rather controversial topic to begin with, but let's not get into that.)

When I was comparing the 683 vs. CM3, I initially found that the 683 has more "oomph". The bass is more "loose" on the 683. Depending on your preference, it can be a good or bad thing. However, if you already have a sub, I would say the extra "oomph" from the 683 will likely be a bad thing.

Also, I think you can get the CM7 in gloss black. Now that's just too good to pass.

[51st8]

The HK355 will be a limiting factor for you down the road. I personally think the CM7 (or 683) deserves something better, and I do not think bi-amping will improve the results. (Bi-amping itself is a rather controversial topic to begin with, but let's not get into that.)

When I was comparing the 683 vs. CM3, I initially found that the 683 has more "oomph". The bass is more "loose" on the 683. Depending on your preference, it can be a good or bad thing. However, if you already have a sub, I would say the extra "oomph" from the 683 will likely be a bad thing.

Also, I think you can get the CM7 in gloss black. Now that's just too good to pass.

thank you for your reply and advise.

i've been told that if i like how my speakers sound through HK355 and if i upgrade my system to floorstands speakers i can use HK 355 as a pre amp.
is it good idea? i'm going to use it for HC and for listening music in 2.1 direct mode.
my question is: if i add Rotel RMB1565 as an amp in my system will it improve better sound with CM7 2.1 with music and in 5.1 in HC?
or you recommend something else?

thank you very much.
your advise will help me to decide what with what will go better.
chris

[kmcheng]

Do you have a dealer who is willing to help you with the comparison?

Have the dealer hook up both the CM7 and the 683 to the same Rotel 1565. Your dealer will likely use the Rotel 1570 as pre. Remember to also connect a subwoofer, since you have one in your own set up.

The important thing here is to pick the speaker you like better. Ideally, you want to pick the speaker you like better after at least one hour of listening -- that is at least 30 minutes on each model. Take your time here -- you are spending a lot of money.

If you cannot tell the difference, or do not know which one you like better, then pick in terms of aesthetics. The two models are slightly different sizes, and come in different color options. In my opinion, I think the finish on the CM7 look better. Did I mention that it is the only one available in piano black?

I will be the first to admit that I cannot always readily tell the difference between B&W speakers, especially those within the same series. Even on the occasions that I can correctly identify the speakers, I think a lot of it is luck and psychology.

Also, with the new class D technology, you can also consider getting the rotel class D receivers instead of the 1565 multi-channel amps. Life is much simpler with a receiver.

You can always move your HK unit to the bedroom. :W

[51st8]

Do you have a dealer who is willing to help you with the comparison?

Have the dealer hook up both the CM7 and the 683 to the same Rotel 1565. Your dealer will likely use the Rotel 1570 as pre. Remember to also connect a subwoofer, since you have one in your own set up.

The important thing here is to pick the speaker you like better. Ideally, you want to pick the speaker you like better after at least one hour of listening -- that is at least 30 minutes on each model. Take your time here -- you are spending a lot of money.

If you cannot tell the difference, or do not know which one you like better, then pick in terms of aesthetics. The two models are slightly different sizes, and come in different color options. In my opinion, I think the finish on the CM7 look better. Did I mention that it is the only one available in piano black?

I will be the first to admit that I cannot always readily tell the difference between B&W speakers, especially those within the same series. Even on the occasions that I can correctly identify the speakers, I think a lot of it is luck and psychology.

Also, with the new class D technology, you can also consider getting the rotel class D receivers instead of the 1565 multi-channel amps. Life is much simpler with a receiver.

You can always move your HK unit to the bedroom. :W

Thank you very much for your very helpful advise :T .
Now I know what I'm up to and 'How To' choose what I am expecting.

Kind Regards
Chris

[51st8]

hello !

emig5m did mention about Emotiva XPA-5 1,000 Watt 5 Channel Power Amplifier.
Is there by any chance to get it with the plug for the Europe with 240 volts?
It would be a very good price for it instead spending money for Rotel.
Does Emotiva make any AVR?

Many thanks
Chris

[wettou]

hello ! emig5m did mention about Emotiva XPA-5 1,000 Watt 5 Channel Power Amplifier. Is there by any chance to get it with the plug for the Europe with 240 volts? It would be a very good price for it instead spending money for Rotel.

Here you are

"• IEC power inlet, 120/230 VAC configurable"

Does Emotiva make any AVR? Many thanks Chris

http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

[bnieman]

MJB
half decent?
for example QED starts prices form £4.50 pm or QED GENESIS SILVER SPIRAL SPEAKER CABLE and up to £500 for some flat ones pm
Can you recommend exact make and model so i can look and read?
what about: Nordost 2 Flat Loudspeaker Cable at http://www.hifigear.co.uk/site/scrip...roduct_id=1954
thanks
chris

Speaker cable: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm
Interconnects: http://www.monoprice.com

Excellent build quality and shielding. And the price is right :T

[wettou]

Speaker cable: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm Interconnects: http://www.monoprice.com
Excellent build quality and shielding. And the price is right :T

Or get Mogami cables used in 90% of all recording studios

https://www.markertek.com

[nergee]

I just upgraded my 600 series 3 system to CT700's. 3 CT7.3's up front and two 7.5s in back. I have a Rotel RMB 1075 and it's just not enough. I have an Onkyo 806 receiver (which will be upgraded next), but I don't know what to get for an amp. It'd be simple to get the RMB-1575 and be done with it, but I like trying different companies and mixing and matching components. Looking for something under $3000, and I think I'm down to Wyred4Sound MC5x250, Anthem MCA50, Outlaw 7500, B&K 200.5, Emotiva XPA-5.... it goes on and on. Am I missing any good ones or should I just write them all on pieces of paper and pull one out of a hat and buy it?

[Klaas]

Guys, i'm new to this whole audio scene. I'm used to plug-and-play speakers :$
Today I bought 2 B&W DM310 speakers but they came without cables.
Can anyone tell me what devices/cables I need to get these 2 blasting sound?

[pazu]

Hallo!

I use an Unison Research Unico 100 amplifier for my B&W 803S and I think the result is excellent.

[ryan.devry]

Hey everyone,

The analog outputs on my pioneer elite CD player have crapped out on me. So, now I gotta get a new CD player......(I think the player may have been damaged when I moved it down stairs to my new home theater room).

My budget is 500 or less, and I would prefer new equipment. Any thoughts on a good CD player for that money? (I am interested in Cambridge 340C, Emotiva ERC-1, NAD C-515BEE, but I am all ears for any suggestions).

Current Set Up:

Harman Kardon HK-3485
B&W 685
B&W ASW608
MIT cables

[kmcheng]

These are all very good players at excellent prices. I don't think you can go wrong for any of these. Without the opportunity to listen to them side-by-side, I say pick them on their looks. (I am not kidding.) Which one of them best match your other equipments?

If it were up to me, I will go with Emotiva. The NAD and Cambridge Audio sound pretty similar to me. I have never tried the Emotiva. For that reason alone I would give Emotiva a chance.

[SoCalCM]

I have B&W 802Ds, I really like these speakers. I have a Rega P9, ARC PH5, Ayre C5xemp, Anthem D2, Classe CA3200. What is the best SS amp for this system? Is the CA3200 as good as it gets for these speakers? Can a substantial improvement be achieved by changing the amp? When do you get to overkill, i.e. the amp is too good and will not yield any improvement over a less expensive choice? I will probably add a good 2ch preamp, maybe the ARC Ref5.

[wettou]

I have B&W 802Ds, I really like these speakers. I have a Rega P9, ARC PH5, Ayre C5xemp, Anthem D2, Classe CA3200. What is the best SS amp for this system? Is the CA3200 as good as it gets for these speakers? Can a substantial improvement be achieved by changing the amp? When do you get to overkill, i.e. the amp is too good and will not yield any improvement over a less expensive choice? I will probably add a good 2ch preamp, maybe the ARC Ref5.

Cool if you can upgrade get Classé CAM400

[SoCalCM]

I've auditioned the CAM400s and IMO they aren't a substantial improvement over the CA3200, better but not much. Classe make very good electronics but they don't make the best, at least that seems to be the consensus. Sometimes I think that it is too bad that B&W own Classe because that is the usual pairing -- like a great lead singer always playing with a very good, but not great, band.

Suppose the best were in the running, Lamm, Boulder, Krell, Ayre, Dartzeel, Burmester etc. etc. Would the CAM400 still be the best choice?

[Skyblue]

I'm looking for experience with small amplifiers for a HT setup with 802D or 800D.

I would'nt mind getting a couple of mcintoshes or similar, but the missus would, so I'm looking for something small that doesn't generate too much heat either.

Amps I'm considering are Ayre MX-R, Icepower asx250 (3. gen, 600w mono), and.. I don't know.. What does it take? What did I miss?

[wettou]

I've auditioned the CAM400s and IMO they aren't a substantial improvement over the CA3200, better but not much. Classe make very good electronics but they don't make the best, at least that seems to be the consensus. Sometimes I think that it is too bad that B&W own Classe because that is the usual pairing -- like a great lead singer always playing with a very good, but not great, band.

Suppose the best were in the running, Lamm, Boulder, Krell, Ayre, Dartzeel, Burmester etc. etc. Would the CAM400 still be the best choice?

Interesting, the price starts rising very fast as well... How about Pass Labs

[Relentless]

I'm looking for experience with small amplifiers for a HT setup with 802D or 800D.

I would'nt mind getting a couple of mcintoshes or similar, but the missus would, so I'm looking for something small that doesn't generate too much heat either.

Amps I'm considering are Ayre MX-R, Icepower asx250 (3. gen, 600w mono), and.. I don't know.. What does it take? What did I miss?

I have owned both and they can be driven with 200W but I found that more power the better they sound in the mid bass especially. The 800D needs a minimum of 400W to get the potential out of it and the 802D needs an amp that is fine with dipping into the 2ohm range often.

[Skyblue]

I have owned both and they can be driven with 200W but I found that more power the better they sound in the mid bass especially. The 800D needs a minimum of 400W to get the potential out of it and the 802D needs an amp that is fine with dipping into the 2ohm range often.

So even the ayre isn't really powerfull enough. Ah man ..

[Relentless]

So even the ayre isn't really powerful enough. Ah man ..

My Ayre dealer is a B&W dealer also and he likes the 300W Ayre amp driving the 800D's the best. Before they hooked up the Ayre mono's they were driving them with a Boulder 2060. I preferred the Boulder set up.

[wettou]

My Ayre dealer is a B&W dealer also and he likes the 300W Ayre amp driving the 800D's the best. Before they hooked up the Ayre mono's they were driving them with a Boulder 2060. I preferred the Boulder set up.

Talk about over kill with amplifiers two times more expensive than the speakers !!

[Hammie]

Integra DHC-80.1

Has anyone tried the new Integra DHC-80.1 with their B&W's yet?

My dealer has just started carrying the Integra line. Wondering how is pairs up.

Also, soundwise, would the 40.1 sound much different if I was able to do a home demo of that one, even though I was interested in the 80.1? My dealer doesn't have any 80.1's and is not sure when he will have one since they are in such demand right now (backordered through the middle of Feb).

[emig5m]

Has anyone tried the new Integra DHC-80.1 with their B&W's yet?

My dealer has just started carrying the Integra line. Wondering how is pairs up.

Also, soundwise, would the 40.1 sound much different if I was able to do a home demo of that one, even though I was interested in the 80.1? My dealer doesn't have any 80.1's and is not sure when he will have one since they are in such demand right now (backordered through the middle of Feb).

I'd wait for the Emotiva XMC-1, honestly. I have no experience with Integra, they may be perfectly fine, but one thing I don't like about them is that they still look like a cheap receiver (nothing wrong with cheap receivers, I own one :rofl: ). But just saying- If I'm going for a dedicated pre/pro over just a standard AVR, I also want that higher quality look to go with it. IMO a quality pre/pro shouldn't look like a cheap receiver bought at Best Buy. Of course, looks has nothing to do with sound, but just saying.

And furthermore, I'm still skeptical that a dedicated pre/pro from Emotiva/Integra is going to blow us AVR users away with a heightened level of sound quality like our B&W speakers gives us (since we're already using a dedicated power amp and not the built in AVR's). Back in the day when all signals where transported analog there seemed to be a much larger gap between the low end and higher end. Now with all digital and more refined designs that can be done for cheaper with today's tech, I think the gap isn't that big anymore.

I'll get the XMC-1 when it comes out, but I wont be afraid to send it back if it doesn't improve the sound quality just like I did with the 3900 Yamaha over the 663. I'm willing to pay for a difference, if the difference is there (I do own 9 grand in speakers alone afterall). I'm still very skeptical in major differences in electronics these days, unless you're talking about a lower end Sony receiver, then yea, anything will be night and day better. :rofl:

I think with the equipment you have now, room treatments & acoustics is the truly next step in noticeable differences in sound quality. I should know, I've walked away from an amazing deal on the 803D's running on 20 grand of electronics (high end Classe) because the system didn't sound as good as my 600 series and Yamaha...lol. (very poor room acoustics not the speakers fault- but the experience was enough to put doubt in my head about spending the money on the speakers with the idea that just buying the best gear doesn't guarantee the best sound.)

I speculate Denon to Integra isn't going to be that big of a deal for you unless there's added features that you need from the Integra. It's not like your Denon is way out of date anyway. At the end of the day, the Denon is still a quality unit and not home theater in a box level sound.

I really like these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8H0HFMylo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzmBhkR4JQ&feature=channel

I know, I know, your room is picture perfect pristine. As much as I don't care about classy looks I don't even think I would feel comfortable with messing with your decor. It's clean enough that it could arguably be used in an official B&W speaker catalog (heck, a couple of your photos do look like they're from a B&W catalog) and I would also hate to to cluster up the look with a bunch of dedicated room treatments, bleh, but I think it's the reality of taking your sound quality to the next level. I would at the very least lose the mirror on the wall directly behind the listening position and add at least some type of decorative carpet that looks like art. Make a nice frame around it with wood molding make it look neat. It's bad enough we all have these reflective flat screen displays directly between our speakers without needing to bounce around and smear the sound even more.

I'm just saying that because when I moved my room around (pig pen hehe 8) ) I wound up with a bare wall directly behind the listening position and it threw the sound way off compared to what I had before. It's like the mids and highs lost all their detail and resolution and sounded like cardboard. I thought I was going to have to re-arrange the room back to the way it was because the sound quality went way downhill. I simply threw up a decorative rug on the bare wall behind the listening position (I had no expectations it would do anything but I figured it would be tons easier than moving the entire room back around) and it was night and day difference. I can't imagine what something as hard and smooth as a mirror could be doing. 8O

But if you do get the Integra, I'm very curious in your opinion on it if there is in fact a worthwhile upgrade in sound quality. But you know that you want that nice Emotiva XMC-1 to match your amp....hehe. : And personally, I have more faith that the Emotiva product will be a better step up than the Integra anyway.

[SoCalCM]

Has anyone heard the new Classe 600 watt monoblocks yet? I read the Stereophile CES blog about them and then the Classe website. They look very interesting.

[Hammie]

I'd wait for the Emotiva XMC-1, honestly. I have no experience with Integra, they may be perfectly fine, but one thing I don't like about them is that they still look like a cheap receiver (nothing wrong with cheap receivers, I own one :rofl: ). But just saying- If I'm going for a dedicated pre/pro over just a standard AVR, I also want that higher quality look to go with it. IMO a quality pre/pro shouldn't look like a cheap receiver bought at Best Buy. Of course, looks has nothing to do with sound, but just saying.

And furthermore, I'm still skeptical that a dedicated pre/pro from Emotiva/Integra is going to blow us AVR users away with a heightened level of sound quality like our B&W speakers gives us (since we're already using a dedicated power amp and not the built in AVR's). Back in the day when all signals where transported analog there seemed to be a much larger gap between the low end and higher end. Now with all digital and more refined designs that can be done for cheaper with today's tech, I think the gap isn't that big anymore.

I'll get the XMC-1 when it comes out, but I wont be afraid to send it back if it doesn't improve the sound quality just like I did with the 3900 Yamaha over the 663. I'm willing to pay for a difference, if the difference is there (I do own 9 grand in speakers alone afterall). I'm still very skeptical in major differences in electronics these days, unless you're talking about a lower end Sony receiver, then yea, anything will be night and day better. :rofl:

I think with the equipment you have now, room treatments & acoustics is the truly next step in noticeable differences in sound quality. I should know, I've walked away from an amazing deal on the 803D's running on 20 grand of electronics (high end Classe) because the system didn't sound as good as my 600 series and Yamaha...lol. (very poor room acoustics not the speakers fault- but the experience was enough to put doubt in my head about spending the money on the speakers with the idea that just buying the best gear doesn't guarantee the best sound.)

I speculate Denon to Integra isn't going to be that big of a deal for you unless there's added features that you need from the Integra. It's not like your Denon is way out of date anyway. At the end of the day, the Denon is still a quality unit and not home theater in a box level sound.

I really like these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8H0HFMylo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzmBhkR4JQ&feature=channel

I know, I know, your room is picture perfect pristine. As much as I don't care about classy looks I don't even think I would feel comfortable with messing with your decor. It's clean enough that it could arguably be used in an official B&W speaker catalog (heck, a couple of your photos do look like they're from a B&W catalog) and I would also hate to to cluster up the look with a bunch of dedicated room treatments, bleh, but I think it's the reality of taking your sound quality to the next level. I would at the very least lose the mirror on the wall directly behind the listening position and add at least some type of decorative carpet that looks like art. Make a nice frame around it with wood molding make it look neat. It's bad enough we all have these reflective flat screen displays directly between our speakers without needing to bounce around and smear the sound even more.

I'm just saying that because when I moved my room around (pig pen hehe 8) ) I wound up with a bare wall directly behind the listening position and it threw the sound way off compared to what I had before. It's like the mids and highs lost all their detail and resolution and sounded like cardboard. I thought I was going to have to re-arrange the room back to the way it was because the sound quality went way downhill. I simply threw up a decorative rug on the bare wall behind the listening position (I had no expectations it would do anything but I figured it would be tons easier than moving the entire room back around) and it was night and day difference. I can't imagine what something as hard and smooth as a mirror could be doing. 8O

But if you do get the Integra, I'm very curious in your opinion on it if there is in fact a worthwhile upgrade in sound quality. But you know that you want that nice Emotiva XMC-1 to match your amp....hehe. : And personally, I have more faith that the Emotiva product will be a better step up than the Integra anyway.

Thanks for the response.

I'm trying to get a demo unit to see how it sounds in house.

I'll let you know. I'm also going to see how the XMC-1 sounds, but first they need to release it.

[emig5m]

I'm also going to see how the XMC-1 sounds, but first they need to release it.

I hear ya on that. I expected it out last year, honestly. But it worked out good for me because if I had spent the money on the XMC-1 last year I might not have been able to afford my 800 series speakers and I'd rather have the best speakers possible before the best electronics possible. Can't say I'm too worried about it right now though since my line of work is seasonal (off work during the freezing weather months in the winter) so a summer release this year will be perfect timing for me.

I suppose I could try the UMC-1, but I 1) Definitely need a headphone jack and 2) I figure if there's any possibility that Emotiva could be a stepping stone for me into the higher end electronics and show me there's a true higher level than what I have like the 683 was the stepping stone that convinced me to try the 804S, the XMC-1 might have a little better quality overall to showcase that higher level. And for the price of Emotiva products, just like the 683 was, worth the gamble just to try/test out. Spending $5k on a pre/pro just to experiment and see, I'm not into that. It will take a stepping stone product to convince me like the B&W 683 did. We'll see what happens when I get the XMC-1. Who knows, this time next year I might be back here with full blown high end electronics, or I might just still be content with a cheap Yamaha, hehe. :lol:

[Skyblue]

My Ayre dealer is a B&W dealer also and he likes the 300W Ayre amp driving the 800D's the best. Before they hooked up the Ayre mono's they were driving them with a Boulder 2060. I preferred the Boulder set up.

Thanks for the answer, it's good to know that the ayre can drive them. I can see from the rave reviews that the boulder 2060 is something else as well. But at 250lbs, not the small amps I'm currently looking for

[wettou]

Thanks for the answer, it's good to know that the ayre can drive them. I can see from the rave reviews that the boulder 2060 is something else as well. But at 250lbs, not the small amps I'm currently looking for

It is only $45,000 :lol:

[Skyblue]

It is only $45,000 :lol:

Hahahaa.. does it come with complementary 800D's?

Well, if people have the money why not. I personally haven't but here we are..

I read somewhere else that you only have a good system if you spend at least $1 million on a dedicated room and gear. I'm sure it sounds great, but my dream system currently consists og 800D's and Ayre MX-R, KX-R, QB.9. This system should cost just about twice what I got, so we'll see if it ever happens ...

[SoCalCM]

My Ayre dealer is a B&W dealer also and he likes the 300W Ayre amp driving the 800D's the best. Before they hooked up the Ayre mono's they were driving them with a Boulder 2060. I preferred the Boulder set up.

What was it about the Boulder setup compared to the Ayre that you liked? Was it a big difference?

[Relentless]

What was it about the Boulder setup compared to the Ayre that you liked? Was it a big difference?

Different presentations, the Ayre set up was balanced from top to bottom and had my favorite vocals of the two setups, maybe of all setups but the Boulder setup excelled in moving the 800D's woofers and making the bass tighter. They both are exceptional I just liked the way the Boulder setup reproduced percussion better. It is just a personal choice, anyone would be lucky to have either. I went with a Krell pre and amps and an Ayre source to get the best of both worlds. I got slam and dynamics and the smooth Ayre mids.

[wettou]

PASS LABS :T I just need to sell my car so I can afford their amp :cry:

[sc2]

Wow

PASS LABS :T I just need to sell my car so I can afford their amp :cry:

Wettou, I thought you were a Nemo guy!!!! You changed!!!:B :B :lol:

[wettou]

Wettou, I thought you were a Nemo guy!!!! You changed!!!:B :B :lol:

I love Electrocompaniet, I just recently experienced PASS Pure Class A whoa :T