802 d vs 803ds

[Dan White]

I live in Africa and Im going to ship either speaker to Angola. Question between the 2 which is a better speaker for movies and music? I'm going to buy either the Mac mc 207 or the mc 205.

[Edgeyboy]

I demmed both and the 802D is my preference. I found the bass a bit fruity on the 803D. For want of a better word, the 802D is a more "high end listen".

[Dan White]

What amp are you using on your 802d?

[Jasondtx]

802s get my vote. Clearer midrange with Marlan head and better bass.

[Mark-n-b]

I was in two minds between the 803D and 802D and in the end I went for the 802D. It is a better speaker, although the 803D is great, no doubt.

[Aussie Geoff]

Dan,

If you just listened to the 803D you would be very happy, is if a very good speaker.

However once I listenned ot the 802D I knew that was a great speaker... The midrange is noticably more natural and less coloured (courtesy of the Marlin Head I guess) and the overall soundstage very much more cohesive and 3D...

So you you can afford it.. there is no doubt in my mind that the 802D is worth it...

Geoff

[Dan White]

Thanks for everyone imput I will get the 802ds with the HTM2d.

One other question my choice of Amps. Im looking at the Mac mc 207 or 205, I would like to do 3 mc 402 any thoughts?

[Tommy]

If you choose the 802D, you'll want as much power as you can afford. I would pick the MC402. It's also fully balanced.
Better, 3 MC501's, then you are in heaven.

[Mig17]

Many people choose 802 just for looking
because of the beaty of 802

[Pedro]

Better, 3 MC501's, then you are in heaven.

or a pair of Krell EVO 400

[misterdoggy]

Dan,

The electric current in Angola is the same as France 220-230v and I have a mc207 and mc205 for sale. you can pm me if you like.

802D's are nice and I use 802D's with mc501's. You probably will need a bit more pawer for the 802D's than the 803D's. They are both great speakers and the 802D's are big boys to move around.

[Dan White]

When I get back from vacation I will PM you. I leave for Portugal then Spain then on to Paris for a few days.

Thanks again for everyones adviced.

Happy Easter Dan

[rodH]

My dad just upgraded from the N803 to the 802D, suprisingly I didn't notice much difference in the highs, BUT it was the midrange that was better. Obviously has more bass as well.

He is running an MC252. I don't think the MC205 or MC207 is enough unless you bi-amp them. The 802s are great speakers get a great amp to power them.

[eljr]

Dan,

The electric current in Angola is the same as France 220-230v and I have a mc207 and mc205 for sale. you can pm me if you like.

802D's are nice and I use 802D's with mc501's. You probably will need a bit more pawer for the 802D's than the 803D's. They are both great speakers and the 802D's are big boys to move around.

i have read the opposite. The 802d I have been told is easier to drive than the 803d.

[misterdoggy]

i have read the opposite. The 802d I have been told is easier to drive than the 803d.

Actually I was speaking out of turn, since I am not really familiar with the 803d's I can't really say from experience. I know that the 802D's do like power and thought the 803d's might work well with less.

I have tried everything from 150w per channel to 400 and 500w per channel on the 802d's and all different kinds of watts. From my experience, with them, they like power, but can run on less power and sound great. However, add 500 watts per channel and you are at cruising speed for them.

I have had many Amps on these 802D's from Pass Labs X250.5, Mark Levinson 436's, Krell 400FPB, Rotel 1095, McIntosh 501's, and even tried a smaller Pass Labs X150 (150 watts per channel) on them for experience
and others as well, but they do like power. Not to say they aren't efficient and sound good with less power too, but IMHO More power more UMphhhhh ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

[dalundin]

802d

This was the same question that was bothering me. Luckily with the bad business lately the local dealer agreed to order a pair of 802d to compare to the 803ds he already had on the floor. I spent 3 hours comparing CD after CD. I will tell you that the difference is small. The low end is better in the 802d but not by much and the mids and highs are really hard to tell the difference. Both were hooked up to McIntosh MC402. If you have a great sub then it will hard to tell I think but the look and feel of the 802 was too hard for me to pass up and I got a great deal on the following setup

Mcintosh MX120 AV Pre
Mcintosh MC207 200W 7 channel Amp
Mcintosh MC402 400W 2 Channel Amp
B&W 802Ds
B&W HTM2 Center
B&W DS8S Surrounds
JL F113 Fathom Sub

DL

[DeepEndX]

You have to make sure the new speakers are properly burn in. Great system you have there dalundin.

[DeepEndX]

Dan:

The higher the series (805 to 800D), the more power it is required to make your speakers happy, except the 801D which is hardest to drive. I had the N801 and started with Rotel RB 1090 (380Wx2 stereo). After I tested the Krell MCX 750 (750W mono), I upgraded. The difference was night and day. Rotel RB 1090 is a good amplifier and very cost efficient; however, Krell is in a different league. Before the upgrade, I tested Classe, Mac's, Krell's, CJ.

I tested MC501 but not the MC402 so I can't give you feedback. But from my experience, mono's should be able to control your speakers better. You should go and audition the separates and hope you don't hear any differences so you can save some money.

[dalundin]

Burn ins?

So what I hear is that burn in is kind of a myth?

I hear that it is mostly just your ears getting used to the new sound. In fact this is what is says in the B&W guide??

[dalundin]

Mc402

By the way I did listed to the 802Ds with two 501s and a single 402. There was no real difference. The 402 is an amazing amp which has won several awards for a reason and the warmth really sounds great with B&W which are quite bright on their own although the diamonds lessen this brightness as well..

Saddly b/c of the poor US dollar, Mcintosh gear all went up significantly (20%) as of April 1 (why I ordered on the 30th) It is kind of BS because its made in NY but I guess they get a lot of parts overseas???

Anyway, Certainly a great match for the 802Ds

[DeepEndX]

Burn in is very debatable. Certain people believe its a myth and certain people think its true. From my experience I believe its true, after upgrading from N803 to N801 to 800D. Initially I bought N803 with Rotel 1090, after a year, I upgraded to N801. The first week after the upgrade, I thought I made a mistake because the N801 didn't sound as good as the N803. I called my dealer and he promised me that if i still didn't like it, he will take it back at 80% of the trade in price. After a week playing the music for over 20 hrs/day, N801 became one of the most dynamic speakers I have ever heard. 6 months later after I was satisfied with the N801, I upgraded my amps to Krell.

Nevertheless, you are going to enjoy your system! Maybe you can test out the theory after you listen to your system over 100 hrs and compare it to the dealers if he/she receives a new system with the same setup. I will very much like to see what are the results.

[style]

802d-803d

Hi,

well I say 802d.
But in my personaly ht room they are to big.

I have this week the 803D plus Htm2D buyd. (upgrade 803s,htm4s...)

for the 802d a dream set? the new Classè SSP800 (next with software update for sound DTS master&Co. for HD mega video quality), CA5200,
CAM400 for left and right.

the MC402/ mc501 is sure a good choice but the pre/pro from MC are to muh overpriced!!! and vs. the Classè they have nothing to do.

Greetings from Switzerland
Omar

[wettou]

Go full blast 800D I wished I did, it's only money after all!

[Briz vegas]

So what I hear is that burn in is kind of a myth?

I hear that it is mostly just your ears getting used to the new sound. In fact this is what is says in the B&W guide??

From my personal experience listening to run in components in a home demo situation vs installing the product new after purchase I can confirm that burn in is real. The new components took 2 weeks on average to sound like the gear I demoed. I enjoy listening to them change over time - its like getting a kitten and watching it grow (did I really just say that - whatever, its fun).

I agree with B&Ws comment also. We are actually pretty cr@p at listening to stuff - how many times have you gone to a system shootout with other hifi heads and everyone listens for half a track before someone says "hey the left speaker isn't working". It takes time for your brain to work out the sonic signature of the system.

Auditioning gear is tuff - I have done 5 upgrades in the past 18 months and each time it was different recordings that showed the changes best, while some only ever sounded marginally better. I am happy to say it was always an improvement.

First job after an upgrade is to listen to every disc in your collection - its required by international law and under about 3 UN international conventions.

Just to be on topic - if you can afford it who could say no to a 802D. I'm starting to think I might get mine in black or wait for the next signature line. This is in my dreams of course and don't tell my 804s, they might not understand.

[style]

803d

Hi wettou,
I have the Rotel Rb1092 for drive the 803D, Rb1091 for Htm2d and another
Rb1092 for the rear 805s.

Sure Classè is much better - not how much watt but the quality :T ,

With the Rb1092 I can drive (with good qualtity) the 803d??

Omar

[wettou]

Hi wettou, I have the Rotel Rb1092 for drive the 803D, Rb1091 for Htm2d and another Rb1092 for the rear 805s. Sure Classè is much better - not how much watt but the quality :T , With the Rb1092 I can drive (with good qualtity) the 803d?? Omar

I compared Rotel 1092 and Classé Ca-52000 and from my perspective there was no comparison, Classé was so much richer and cleaner but that just me!

The Rotel 1092 was very good with bass, but I have a JLAudio Fathom F113 (2500 W) subwoofer and have it crossed over at 80Hz which leaves me with tones of room for high and mid for the 802D.

[style]

@ wettou,

Classè for me is the best builder and pre amp.
Nobody has their technology, design and class!
the 200watt from Classè are sure better vs. 500watt Rotel....
is not a watt quantity but watt quality!.

My only question was whether the Rotel Rb1092 can play well the 803d!

the MC i like too BUT as powerampli in mono or stereo (the MC205-207 are not better as one another powerampli that the consumer pay 1/3
= Mc207 $.13000? = Rotel rmb1095 $ 4000? --> mc205-207 is all denon inside and over-overpriced!!, pre/pro Mc136/120 too overpriced from what they can...) I do you speak Mc252-402-501 good gear's...

The new SSP800 will the leader whitout doubt.

I recieve the new 803D and the Htm2d this week and at this moment I go with the Rb1092(front)-1091(center)-1092(rear) but next upgrade will be sure sure a Classè powerampli (or a CA5200 or CA3200 for L/C/R and rear with rotel..)
When I see Set powered CA5200 combined with a pre / pro denon & Co. I believe that the classè is wasted.

A combo classè (not for design but for waht is inside) SSP800 with CA5200
or with a CAM400 for L/R I the best.
What do you think???
Omar

[wettou]

@ wettou,

Classé for me is the best builder and pre amp. Nobody has their technology, design and class! the 200watt from Classé are sure better vs. 500watt Rotel.... is not a watt quantity but watt quality!.

Agreed!

[/QUOTE]
My only question was whether the Rotel Rb1092 can play well the 803d![/QUOTE]

Yes




[/QUOTE]The new SSP800 will the leader without a doubt. CA5200 combined with a pre / pro denon & Co. I believe that the Classé is wasted.[/QUOTE]

Agreed

[/QUOTE] A combo Classé (not for design but for what is inside) SSP800 with CA5200 or with a CAM400 for L/R I the best.
What do you think???
Omar[/QUOTE]

If I was redoing my system I would put CA M400 L/C/R and three 800D rather than the 802D! I have 3 B&W 802D with CA-5200

[kyle333]

new at this

I live in Africa and Im going to ship either speaker to Angola. Question between the 2 which is a better speaker for movies and music? I'm going to buy either the Mac mc 207 or the mc 205.

ok i just got the denon avp-a1hdci and the poa a week ago.now im waiting for the 803d speakers.I got em already but i returned it cuz they send me the cherrywood instead of the rosenut,now i gota wait for a week or so.2 things i wanna know.should i get the 802d instead of the 803d? and also will the denon separate match with the either 803d or the 802d speakers? i really ancious to try them out.oh ya also im getting the b&w 15inch sub asw855 but my room size insn't that big. should i just go with the 12inch asw825 instead of the 15inch since my room isnt that big?

[wettou]

ok i just got the denon avp-a1hdci and the poa a week ago.now im waiting for the 803d speakers.I got em already but i returned it cuz they send me the cherrywood instead of the rosenut,now i gota wait for a week or so.2 things i wanna know.should i get the 802d instead of the 803d? and also will the denon separate match with the either 803d or the 802d speakers? i really ancious to try them out.oh ya also im getting the b&w 15inch sub asw855 but my room size insn't that big. should i just go with the 12inch asw825 instead of the 15inch since my room isnt that big?

802D are harder to drive but better sound

[Dan White]

Thanks for all the imput. I think I'm going to go with 3 MC 402.

thanks

[ShadowZA]

802D are harder to drive but better sound

Wettou, I'm interested in your reasons in mentioning that the 802D's are harder to drive than the 803D's. The B&W site rates the 802D's down to 3,5 ohms whilst the 803D's are rated down further to 3 ohms. As I read it, the 803D's could do with a bit more current than the 802D's. I also ask this as I'm looking towards a future upgrade path.

[wettou]

Well, I speak from personal experience regardless of the specs I compared a Classé CA-2100 and CAM400 and it was day and night with the 802D the CAM400 opened them up really nice.

With the 803 the CA-2100 the sound was stellar.

[ShadowZA]

Appreciate your reply, wettou. Thanks. Please check your PM. I've asked your opinion on something.

[style]

Hallo wettou / ShadowZA

If I think a upgrade from Rotel to Classè I see more possibilities:
CA5200 / CAM400 have for the three fronts -> Top solution
CA3200 plus CA 2200 (rear) / but more expensive than a CA5200!
CA3200 plus CA 2100 (rear) / as above
In HT I don't believe much in a 7.1 system with DVD standart (better a good 5.1 in place a 7.1 if the room in not very big - source in 7.1 I don't have a dvd in 7.1 max 6.1 dts es...)
with the new coding for bluray / hd maybe has more meaning Or?

But 2 channels I prefer 2 x CAM400 that 2 xCA 2200 in bi.amp!
------------------------------------
@wettou--> 802D are harder to drive but better sound ummm, and the 803D with a Classè CAP-2100?


What is your opinion?

Omar

[ShadowZA]

Style, I cannot comment from personal experience ... but I do believe that one can take it as given that the Classe' CA-M400 is king of the amps that you mention.

I've asked Wettou something similar in that it regards a choice selection.

Other important factors that need to be considered are: Finances (now & future), room size, whether your main goal is to have an ultra-top rated system (reference quality) as well as your committment to this hobby. The law of diminishing returns applies in terms of cost vs benefit and at a certain point it becomes a personal choice.

If I had to choose from your list, it would be CA-M400's for the front end & CA-2200 for the surrounds in a 5.1 setup.

[wettou]

Yes I wished I had done 3 CAM400 for the front and CA-5200 for the rest but finance gets in the way!

I might add a CA-5200 and bi-amp the five 802s (3D and 2S)

[style]

Hi,

well finance with Classè is a important point....

My room is im total (meter) long 9,7 and large 5.5,

The HT system is in 6x5.5meter but the rest room is without wall or other separation...

I will go with the CA5200 or CA3200 at first time for front and in futuer I see
with the SSP800 to change the CA3200 from front to rear and i I have the possibility to have a couple od CAM400....

Omar

[wettou]

Cool if I had more capital I would do 5 CAM400 and that would take care of it but that is over $25K plus the SSP-800 an other $8K, ouch!

[eljr]

Wettou, I'm interested in your reasons in mentioning that the 802D's are harder to drive than the 803D's. The B&W site rates the 802D's down to 3,5 ohms whilst the 803D's are rated down further to 3 ohms. As I read it, the 803D's could do with a bit more current than the 802D's. I also ask this as I'm looking towards a future upgrade path.

I think that we just assume that a bigger speaker is harder to drive.

[Pedro]

The difference was night and day. Rotel RB 1090 is a good amplifier and very cost efficient; however, Krell is in a different league. Before the upgrade, I tested Classe, Mac's, Krell's, CJ..

Have you tested or heard the NEMO+N801 combo?

[wettou]

Have you tested or heard the NEMO+N801 combo?

Yes the Nemo 600 wake up the entire line of B&W from the 800D up to 802D is what I have tested

[Guy]

Yes the Nemo 600 wake up the entire line of B&W from the 800D up to 802D is what I have tested

Agreed the Nemo will be a goodmatch for 800 to 802 models. I went with the AW400s as I could not justify the cost difference after hearing both with the 802D.

I think the N801 & Nemo were used together by Abbey Studios at one stage. Apparently the Nemo was designed specifically for the B&W 801s.

[wettou]

Agreed the Nemo will be a goodmatch for 800 to 802 models. I went with the AW400s as I could not justify the cost difference after hearing both with the 802D

Guy, How do you like them! How long have you had them for?

check this out

http://www.dagogo.com/EdMomkusOnNemo-Nautilus800D.html

[beden1]

Guy, How do you like them! How long have you had them for?

check this out

http://www.dagogo.com/EdMomkusOnNemo-Nautilus800D.html

That was a very good write-up. I'd be interested in his auditioning the same components with a Classe pre-amp in the mix. From reading his impressions, the CAM-400's did a very good job overall. What is the price difference between the two amps? If it is a big difference in cost, then it may not be worth it to get the Nemos, unless one's goal is to get as close to absolute personal perfection as possible regardless of finances.

I also keep thinking while reading these reviews, that the difference in audible sounds at this high-end level are by small degrees. In order to achieve listening nirvana, there are so many factors that come into play like source materials, upstream components and connections, room configurations, etc., etc.

Also, unless someone had a very talented and experienced sound architect design to build a dedicated theater in your house, then only could many of these subtle differences in components be truly appreciated.

While reading his review, I was mostly salivating over the 800Ds!