Need Help My B&W 802D Tweeters are Blown

[rickc]

I just contacted my dealer about my tweeters not working :cry: !

I checked and double checked the connections and they are apparently blown. Has anyone gone through the process of how they will get repaired? They are under warranty, but I was not sure if I will have to send the whole speakers back in etc? Will they just replace the Diamond tweeters? Could it be a crossover inside of the speaker? I have two Classe CAM 400 mono blocks running these speakers. I never turn it up past 80, so I am surprised that they aren’t working?

Please let me know if you have been through this with B&W?

Thanks

[RobP]

More than likely your dealer will just come to your home and do the repair, at least that my dealer handles things. There would be no need to send the speakers back. You may want him/her to check over your setup to see what may have caused it.

[Glenee]

Rick c, That is funny that both of them blew. The fix is about 15 minutes a speaker with parts and tools in hand. I would want to know what caused it, I mean both of them something isn't right somewhere.

[misterdoggy]

Are they broken physically

They are expensive if not under guarantee $1000+ each

They usually replace them as its unusual

[rickc]

Thanks for all of the replies!

The tweeters are not physically damaged. I do need to figure out what caused this? My guess is that the volume was turned up to loud. If it was one tweeter, I would assume that something was hooked up wrong? The fact that both of them seem to be blown leads me to think that it had to happen with the volume being turned up to loud? I do have teenage kids, but they never turn the volume up high.

I emailed my dealer and I am waiting for a reply. Hopefully, this is something that they can repair at my home.

[Alaric]

I do have teenage kids, but they never turn the volume up high.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm sorry . I had to do that. :B

[rickc]

I understand that a lot of people could take that comment with a laugh!!!

I have three systems in my house and my kids are not into music like me! They are like most kids their age that all they care about is playing video games and sports. They love their ipods and they never listen to this system that I have in my basement. When I was their age I was into music big time. That’s why I have a $70K stereo system. It was probably me that turned this system up to loud?

[Alaric]

Yeah , I'm 46-and I know I turn it up too loud! I'm lucky (?) in that my daughter (now 8 ) discovered she gets my stereo in the will. She now encourages me to ride motorcycles.......
If I were King Of The World , I wouldn't ban iPods. I would , however , ban calling what comes out of them "music". 8O

[Race Car Driver]

As much as I would love some D's a $99 tweeter is much more comfortable to blast then a $999 tweeter.

[misterdoggy]

I doubt that you turned up the volume loud enough to blow the tweeter.

Your ear would give out before the tweeter.

No me thinks there is another explanation. You know there are resisters in the base and I am not sure maybe a fuse or some protection

If the tweeter is intact that is a good thing imho.

The Diamond tweeter either is intact or blown, if not look elsewhere.

[Dutch BW]

Might the biwire bridge (jumpers high freq / low freq) be disconnected? Maybe the kids played around there...

[Aldo]

I really doubt those tweeter are blown, specially both!
I think there are no fuse in the speaker so check your jumpers, something most be wrong with connections.

[sc2]

I really doubt those tweeter are blown, specially both!
I think there are no fuse in the speaker so check your jumpers, something most be wrong with connections.

actually, there are fuses/ resisters in the bottom for each range... I know this due to the fact that both mine (tweeters) blew out last week and the service guy removed the bottom to check things out... man those caps are big You guys really should check those out!

I was listening at 83db, in the middle of a song and the high end just disappeared, they suspect it was one of three things, 1) a dc cross-over
2) a transient signal in the music
3) a build up of distortion in the amp over a long period of time,(7 hrs of continuous playing at 75db, then I cranked it up to 83db), personnally, I think its my amp (ca-5200), sent a surge, but that's a story for another time... so, when they go again, will know.

A word to the wise, dont crank up those speakers till those tweeters are replaced!

Update: Well, I spoke with the tech quys again today, and they decided those were not fuses or resistors, but some chip that helps control the tone.

Sorry for the mis-information....

Steve

[misterdoggy]

If the Diamond Cone is intact, chances are good you will find the problem elsewhere.

[MikeCarron]

I'll place my bet on either blown fuses or some non-resetting circuit breaker in the speaker, especially since Steve (SC2) has confirmed the installation of fuses above.

Wishing you a fast and inexpensive cure so you can get back to the music my friend.

Mike C.

[rickc]

Thanks for all of the messages.

My dealer came in last night and replaced my tweeters and I am back in business. It was a simple process of removing the tweeters and replacing them with brand new tweeters from B&W. I am thankfull that my speakers have a 5 year warranty. My dealer mentioned that each tweeter was about $1,000 bucks

[DM3000 Owner]

Thanks for all of the messages.

My dealer came in last night and replaced my tweeters and I am back in business. It was a simple process of removing the tweeters and replacing them with brand new tweeters from B&W. I am thankfull that my speakers have a 5 year warranty. My dealer mentioned that each tweeter was about $1,000 bucks

Yikes! Its hard enough explaining to the wife that you "need" a pair of $12,000 speakers, but needing another $2,000 worth of replacement tweeters. Ouch. I guess you could say that its like changing the oil, tweeters only last 6 months. Glad you have a waranty.

[RebelMan]

actually, there are fuses/ resisters in the bottom for each range... I know this due to the fact that both mine (tweeters) blew out last week and the service guy removed the bottom to check things out... man those caps are big You guys really should check those out!

They are bigger in the 800D! :E

I was listening at 83db, in the middle of a song and the high end just disappeared, they suspect it was one of three things, 1) a dc cross-over
2) a transient signal in the music
3) a build up of distortion in the amp over a long period of time,(7 hrs of continuous playing at 75db, then I cranked it up to 83db), personnally, I think its my amp (ca-5200), sent a surge, but that's a story for another time... so, when they go again, will know.

1.) Not likely, the protection circuit would have shut the amplifier down unless it failed.

2.) Possibly. A spike in the signal could have pushed the amplifier to clip.

3.) It's not possible to build up distortion in the amplifier but a capacitor may be failing. Again, I find this an unlikely cause because both speakers were impaired. An 83dB SPL is not helpful without knowing how and where the measurement was taken.

In all three cases the knowledgeable technician should know how to check the health of your amplifier to rule it out. If you are uncertain, send it in.

Things that I would want to know would be...

1. Was an electrical storm near by? Power-lines miles upstream can be impacted to effect your equipment downstream.

2. Is the system on a dedicated circuit or supplied sufficient power? Brownouts can be just as lethal as spikes.

3. Did any system tampering (equipment and/or cable changes or adjustments) occur sometime prior to the incident?

[RebelMan]

The tweeters are not physically damaged. I do need to figure out what caused this? My guess is that the volume was turned up to loud. If it was one tweeter, I would assume that something was hooked up wrong? The fact that both of them seem to be blown leads me to think that it had to happen with the volume being turned up to loud?

The voice coils were probably fried. Large doses of current coupled with weak windings can do that. It happens sometimes. Glad it all worked out for you. :T

[Race Car Driver]

Thanks for all of the messages.

My dealer came in last night and replaced my tweeters and I am back in business. It was a simple process of removing the tweeters and replacing them with brand new tweeters from B&W. I am thankfull that my speakers have a 5 year warranty. My dealer mentioned that each tweeter was about $1,000 bucks

As much as I would love some D's a $99 tweeter is much more comfortable to blast then a $999 tweeter.

:lol:


Glad it was covered! I just hate it when $1000 tweets fail! :x

[misterdoggy]

Its a puzzlement ???

I would want to figure it out. Replacing the tweeters might just be a bandaid to the real problem.

I blew a tweeter on the 802D and it was physically broken in the dome. It took my Lexicon M12B blowing up to do it. Loud metallic crack Bam and it was gone.

I repaired the Lex and replaced the tweeter. But I repaired the problem and knew where it came from.

You repaired the effect, but what was the cause. ?

[joetama]

I agree with misterdoggy, I would be wanting to seriously find what caused these to go.

It could have just been a weird fluke, but it also could be a gremlin waiting in your system to strike again. I don't want to be pessimistic or to make you paranoid, but I would take this seriously until I had a concrete answer.

How long are you though the warranty? In case it was to happen again.

If it was just one tweeter I would probably just shrug it off and move along. But both of them would have me concerned about my amplifier and/or power.

[misterdoggy]

Questions

Does one amplifier supply both speakers or 2.

If both blew you have to search something that affects the Left and Right

Were other speakers running and with other amps sources. Did you do anyting, was there an electrical storm, what was playing.

Time to become Sherlock Holmes IMHO

[RobP]

I would do some investigating into why both tweeters failed, B&W only allows three replacements under warranty, after that your on your own.

[sc2]

They are bigger in the 800D! :E

1.) Not likely, the protection circuit would have shut the amplifier down unless it failed.

2.) Possibly. A spike in the signal could have pushed the amplifier to clip.

3.) It's not possible to build up distortion in the amplifier but a capacitor may be failing. Again, I find this an unlikely cause because both speakers were impaired. An 83dB SPL is not helpful without knowing how and where the measurement was taken.

In all three cases the knowledgeable technician should know how to check the health of your amplifier to rule it out. If you are uncertain, send it in.

Things that I would want to know would be...

1. Was an electrical storm near by? Power-lines miles upstream can be impacted to effect your equipment downstream.

2. Is the system on a dedicated circuit or supplied sufficient power? Brownouts can be just as lethal as spikes.

3. Did any system tampering (equipment and/or cable changes or adjustments) occur sometime prior to the incident?

First off, I am kind of new to the Audiophile thing. I haven’t really had a system for more than 15 years. And I have had nothing but trouble with my Classe/B&W System, I bought it in November, but, that story, is not for this thread.

As far as my tweeters go, it was a sunny day, no power issues; I have it all on a 15 amp circuit, dedicated, (CP-500, CDP-502, CA5200 and a music server.) as far the Db goes, it was just what was shown on the display of the CP, (there were zero offset or gain settings set in the unit). And the amp just came back from Classe, whom completely overhauled the unit. I have a surround system, that I have yet to hear, (the ssp-300 was in the shop too!) but I did not trust that amp when it came back, so I put it thru the paces and low and behold I lost my tweeters, I have only had the amp a week and this was the first time I could actually listen to it for a reasonable amount of time. Friday I was told that the speakers were not designed to be listened to in the manner (continuously at that level), Hogwash if you ask me. And again I was told it was distortion build up of an insufficient amp incapable of supporting prolonged loads at too high of volume levels… did I say Hogwash, unfortunately my knowledge level is one of a novice, so I cannot argue too much with them. So now they say I must bi-amp my speakers if I am going to prevent it from happening again… geezzzz.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

[merlinus]

Very sorry to hear of your difficulties, and hope they will end soon.

First off, I am kind of new to the Audiophile thing. I haven’t really had a system for more than 15 years. And I have had nothing but trouble with my Classe/B&W System, I bought it in November, but, that story, is not for this thread.

I for one would like to hear about this, as I have had a two-channel system with CD and later on, DVD player, for the same length of time as you, and am about to take delivery of a Classe and B&W system. Would you be willing to post your experiences in the Classe forum?

Thanks!

[mjb]

Have you thought of having your Classe Mono blocks checked out? Its possible that they're oscillating (or generating noise) outside of human hearing (those D tweeters are good upto 80Khz). Something must have caused both to fail like that. As others have said, I wouldn't like that kind of repair out of my pocket.

[RebelMan]

First off, I am kind of new to the Audiophile thing. I haven’t really had a system for more than 15 years. And I have had nothing but trouble with my Classe/B&W System, I bought it in November, but, that story, is not for this thread.

As far as my tweeters go, it was a sunny day, no power issues; I have it all on a 15 amp circuit, dedicated, (CP-500, CDP-502, CA5200 and a music server.) as far the Db goes, it was just what was shown on the display of the CP, (there were zero offset or gain settings set in the unit). And the amp just came back from Classe, whom completely overhauled the unit. I have a surround system, that I have yet to hear, (the ssp-300 was in the shop too!) but I did not trust that amp when it came back, so I put it thru the paces and low and behold I lost my tweeters, I have only had the amp a week and this was the first time I could actually listen to it for a reasonable amount of time. Friday I was told that the speakers were not designed to be listened to in the manner (continuously at that level), Hogwash if you ask me. And again I was told it was distortion build up of an insufficient amp incapable of supporting prolonged loads at too high of volume levels… did I say Hogwash, unfortunately my knowledge level is one of a novice, so I cannot argue too much with them. So now they say I must bi-amp my speakers if I am going to prevent it from happening again… geezzzz.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

sc2, are you using balanced or single ended connections? If you are reading the absolute scale on the CP-500's LCD at 83, then that's not actual SPL. Your SPL's is more like 104 dB (if using balanced connections). I sit about 12 feet away and with the dial set to 52 and I metered 74 dB on average. The difference between 52 and 83 is about 30 dB. When you add the two numbers together you get about 104 dB. Where were you when this happened? Were you throwing a party (seriously)? The CA-5200 was not designed to drive the 802D to reference volumes of that magnitude. You were breaching the threshold at that level.

Who told you it was "distortion build up" in the amplifier, the dealer or someone from the Classe' technical team? It looks to me like the amplifier was hard clipped which will mean certain death to the drivers, usually the tweeters. The amplifier was starved of power to deliver clean current. The cause is not a build up of distortion but the result of the damage to your speakers is. The 802D are demanding speakers, you may need to reconsider what you are driving them with and step up to something like the CA-M400's if you are going to continue the high revs. It's not hogwash but the laws of science that you ran up against, I am afraid. By the way, a pair of 802D are only capable of 108 dB at a distance of ~12 feet (4m).

[joetama]

sc2, are you using balanced or single ended connections? If you are reading the absolute scale on the CP-500's LCD at 83, then that's not actual SPL. Your SPL's is more like 104 dB (if using balanced connections). I sit about 12 feet away and with the dial set to 52 and I metered 74 dB on average. The difference between 52 and 83 is about 30 dB. When you add the two numbers together you get about 104 dB. Where were you when this happened? Were you throwing a party (seriously)? The CA-5200 was not designed to drive the 802D to reference volumes of that magnitude. You were breaching the threshold at that level.

Who told you it was "distortion build up" in the amplifier, the dealer or someone from the Classe' technical team? It looks to me like the amplifier was hard clipped which will mean certain death to the drivers, usually the tweeters. The amplifier was starved of power to deliver clean current. The cause is not a build up of distortion but the result of the damage to your speakers is. The 802D are demanding speakers, you may need to reconsider what you are driving them with and step up to something like the CA-M400's if you are going to continue the high revs. It's not hogwash but the laws of science that you ran up against, I am afraid. By the way, a pair of 802D are only capable of 108 dB at a distance of ~12 feet (4m).

Rebleman,

Do you know the max SPL on some of the other B&W speakers? Just curious what they would be.

Thanks,
Joe

[sc2]

sc2, are you using balanced or single ended connections? If you are reading the absolute scale on the CP-500's LCD at 83, then that's not actual SPL. Your SPL's is more like 104 dB (if using balanced connections). I sit about 12 feet away and with the dial set to 52 and I metered 74 dB on average. The difference between 52 and 83 is about 30 dB. When you add the two numbers together you get about 104 dB. Where were you when this happened? Were you throwing a party (seriously)? The CA-5200 was not designed to drive the 802D to reference volumes of that magnitude. You were breaching the threshold at that level.

Who told you it was "distortion build up" in the amplifier, the dealer or someone from the Classe' technical team? It looks to me like the amplifier was hard clipped which will mean certain death to the drivers, usually the tweeters. The amplifier was starved of power to deliver clean current. The cause is not a build up of distortion but the result of the damage to your speakers is. The 802D are demanding speakers, you may need to reconsider what you are driving them with and step up to something like the CA-M400's if you are going to continue the high revs. It's not hogwash but the laws of science that you ran up against, I am afraid. By the way, a pair of 802D are only capable of 108 dB at a distance of ~12 feet (4m).

Yes, the dealer said this. Yes it's balanced and it's strange, considering I rocked out with a CA-2200 for 6-7 weeks with no problems at all, and I know it did not clip. I have the max volume set at 85db, just to prevent this kind of thing...
I sit 9ft away. I will go get a meter and figure this out. My replacements have arrived at the dealer, but now we are waiting on audioquests y-adapter, till then, I'll have to wait. I don't want to chance blow-em again.

From what I have read, 802D is the hardest speaker to drive from B&W, but honestly, it doesn't seem that loud to me, now, I have had it up to 92 on the dial, now thats loud!! 83db is a confortable level for me.

Classe is supposed to have some serious safety features to prevent clipping in their amps according to what I have read, I wonder about that.

I thought I bought a quality enough (& large enough) system to handle my needs, guess I was mistaken... at least I know which way to go :laughat:


Thanks though

Steve

[joetama]

CT Series?

[sc2]

I like the way you think!

Steve

[DL86]

Whats the weighting system you are using on your SPL meter? I run my paradigm studio 100's sometimes between 100-105 db and they got no problem going that loud. I'm using the C weighting on my SPL meter with the reading speed set to hi.

[RebelMan]

Rebleman,

Do you know the max SPL on some of the other B&W speakers? Just curious what they would be.

Which one did you have in mind?

[RebelMan]

Yes, the dealer said this. Yes it's balanced and it's strange, considering I rocked out with a CA-2200 for 6-7 weeks with no problems at all, and I know it did not clip. I have the max volume set at 85db, just to prevent this kind of thing...
I sit 9ft away. I will go get a meter and figure this out. My replacements have arrived at the dealer, but now we are waiting on audioquests y-adapter, till then, I'll have to wait. I don't want to chance blow-em again.

From what I have read, 802D is the hardest speaker to drive from B&W, but honestly, it doesn't seem that loud to me, now, I have had it up to 92 on the dial, now thats loud!! 83db is a confortable level for me.

Classe is supposed to have some serious safety features to prevent clipping in their amps according to what I have read, I wonder about that.

I thought I bought a quality enough (& large enough) system to handle my needs, guess I was mistaken... at least I know which way to go :laughat:

Something doesn't sound right with what you are saying. Again you can't go by the reading on the dial. You have to measure the SPL from the listening spot. If you sit 9 feet back and have the dial on 83 you are listening at reference volumes in excess of 100dB on average. Everything has limits including your ears.

Your dealer should have sized the equipment to meet your needs more appropriately. Of course he needs to know for certain what your requirements are and what you can budget to be successful. If you want to party hardy you need something the caliber of the 800D. Not trying to be critical but hopefully give you some realistic expectations.

[RebelMan]

Whats the weighting system you are using on your SPL meter? I run my paradigm studio 100's sometimes between 100-105 db and they got no problem going that loud. I'm using the C weighting on my SPL meter with the reading speed set to hi.

What is the relative distance between the speakers and your ears? You need to use the Slow response with C weighting otherwise the results will reflect peak dB not averages. The 802D have no problems playing loud but you've got to put a frame of reference on the measurements that are taken.

[DL86]

Listening position is about 10ft from both speakers in a 2000 cubic feet room with high absorbing walls. I'll give it another go with the slow response and report when the time is right ofcourse. Really depends what i'm listening to on how loud I like it, with metal I prefer the higher SPL's with classic rock I prefer the lower SPL's (ACDC is an exception ).

[joetama]

Which one did you have in mind?

703 or 804S

[RebelMan]

A pair of 703 or 804S will have a max continuous SPL of about ~106dB at 10 feet. To put this into perspective a pair of 805S is about ~102dB, a pair of 802D is about ~110dB and a pair of 800D is about ~113dB at the same distance.

[joetama]

A pair of 703 or 804S will have a max continuous SPL of about ~106dB at 10 feet. To put this into perspective a pair of 805S is about ~102dB, a pair of 802D is about ~110dB and a pair of 800D is about ~113dB at the same distance.

Cool thanks, good to know stuff right there...

I need to buy a SPL meter out of curiosity.

[joetama]

Got a SPL meter today... Did some metering, continuous SPL is in the mid 90s about 5 ft from the speaker.

[Tom20062]

B&W 802D Tweeters

I have blown 3 sets of tweeters. They blew at the same time when volume on my Krell PBI was set aroung 75 on the display. Each time the dealer replaced them. His eventual fix was to put a 0.5A Fast Blow fuse in line with mid and high frequency. So now I blow fuses.

I called the B&W support in UK but they had no idea. I kinda think they were blowing me off..

Any ideas? Perhaps some sort of a Low Pass filter to limit any HF transients but where do I get one?

[misterdoggy]

I have blown 3 sets of tweeters. They blew at the same time when volume on my Krell PBI was set aroung 75 on the display. Each time the dealer replaced them. His eventual fix was to put a 0.5A Fast Blow fuse in line with mid and high frequency. So now I blow fuses.

I called the B&W support in UK but they had no idea. I kinda think they were blowing me off..

Any ideas? Perhaps some sort of a Low Pass filter to limit any HF transients but where do I get one?

Could be your electricity

[Tom20062]

Hmmmm, how is that? Spikes on the line or not enough capacity?

[joetama]

How loud is "75"?