Still Debating Whether to Upgrade to 800d's.

[Stockinv]

I've had the 802d's for about 2 years. My room is about 19 feet square and open to the rear. The sloping ceilings are 9-11 feet. I'm using McIntosh
MC-501 monoblocks and an Aragon Stage I pre/pro. I don't think the acoustics are very good in the room. Would I benefit from moving up to the 800d's? Is it a marginal improvement or a major one?

[beden1]

Try tweaking the acoustics in your room before investing more money over the 802Ds.

[jericho]

I think going for those 800d's is a big improvement.I have them both and also the mcintosh 501's as well as the 1201's for the 800d's.The bass response is tighter on the 800d's especially when you're playing at low volume.

[ShadowZA]

You know what to do ... go 4 it!

Sufferer of acute "egging-on" syndrome

Seriously though ... as beden 1 mentions, you might want to tweak your acoustics before taking the plunge.

[PewterTA]

I think you should get the 800Ds, then send the 802Ds to me!!!! :T :rofl:

No serious, it really sounds more like you need acoustic treatment over purchasing new speakers. The money you spend on that will reap a far better reward than moving from the 802Ds to 800Ds.

[DeepEndX]

You know you want it and will be thinking about it if you don't get it. But in the same time, work on the acoustic while you are waiting for your 800D's to arrive.

RH

[Dave999]

I agree with the others. You should look into the acoustics and see if they can be improved before investing any more money. That said, if you can work the acoustics out so that they will not remain a problem, the 800Ds are fantastic.

[Charles]

I say get the 800D's and work out the accoustics for them!! You'll always wonder what your missing.

[dmccombs]

It sounds like you will get much more bang for the buck by taking care of the room acoustics first.

If you upgrade to 800D in a bad room, it may not sound a whole lot better than the 802Ds.

However if you improve the room, you know the 802Ds will sound better.

[GregLett]

Treat the room Treat the room. It's amazing how much difference that will make. Getting new speakers without addressing the room problems will only leave you disappointed.
If you are itching to get new speakers, get the new speakers and then treat the room. Don't treat the room and then replace the speakers, you'll most likely have to do it twice.

[Briz vegas]

Treat the room Treat the room. It's amazing how much difference that will make. Getting new speakers without addressing the room problems will only leave you disappointed.
If you are itching to get new speakers, get the new speakers and then treat the room. Don't treat the room and then replace the speakers, you'll most likely have to do it twice.

I've only played with the concept of room treatment (ie wool blanket over closed ironing board leaning against corner so that if forms a panel of sorts......check if impacts on sound, etc etc) however I don't quite get why you would need to retreat your room 802D Vs 800D. Are you saying that the more powerful bass will require more attenuation? Surely the difference would be no greater than listening to the 802D at 80 db vs say 85db (in terms of additional bass - not in terms of quality).

Can a treated room be dialed in to that degree or is it really a matter of improving the room as far as you can achieve practically - which will improve any system.

To my mind treating the room first will maximise the performance of the 802D and will serve as an upgrade(to feed the bug). The next upgrade can then be the 800D if he is still not satisfied - and lets face it, we are never satisfied until we either run out of money or we reach the pinacle of the available technology (hey Aldo :T ).

Its funny, when I suggest to "hifi" friends that I am contemplating an upgrade they get this look on their face that says "damn, what can I upgrade to keep up with Jonesy here" - I probably do that look myself.

[GregLett]

I've only played with the concept of room treatment (ie wool blanket over closed ironing board leaning against corner so that if forms a panel of sorts......check if impacts on sound, etc etc) however I don't quite get why you would need to retreat your room 802D Vs 800D. Are you saying that the more powerful bass will require more attenuation? Surely the difference would be no greater than listening to the 802D at 80 db vs say 85db (in terms of additional bass - not in terms of quality).

Can a treated room be dialed in to that degree or is it really a matter of improving the room as far as you can achieve practically - which will improve any system.

To my mind treating the room first will maximise the performance of the 802D and will serve as an upgrade(to feed the bug). The next upgrade can then be the 800D if he is still not satisfied - and lets face it, we are never satisfied until we either run out of money or we reach the pinacle of the available technology (hey Aldo :T ).

Its funny, when I suggest to "hifi" friends that I am contemplating an upgrade they get this look on their face that says "damn, what can I upgrade to keep up with Jonesy here" - I probably do that look myself.

Cant argue the difference there, weather you would need to retreat between the 800 and 802D, but the Bass might be a factor. I think treating the room is the way to go if he is unhappy with the acoustics. Getting the 800D will sure soothe the bug but he could still have the same issues. I know in my room adding treatment made a BIG difference in the bass, and focusing. Also I have a dedicated room, so I have no WAF issues I have to bear that in mind for those of us that are not so lucky.

[beden1]

Improving the acoustics in the listening room doesn't necessarily have to include dedicated/professional room treatments.

I don't have professional room treatments in my listening rooms (WAF!). But, I've extensively played with furniture placement; area rugs over hard wood and marble floors; strategically hanging artwork; adding or deleting and/or opening draperies at different widths; closing or opening doors; added floor plants; speaker placement and raising speakers with custom bases or stands; angling speakers with toe in/out and angled upwards/downwards; adding speaker sound anchors; etc.

It's amazing and fun to find the differences you can make by just utilizing what's already in the room, and/or getting creative to add things that incorporate well with the decor.

For me, the creative juices start to flow at around beer number six, and so forth and so on!

[amdan]

Cant argue the difference there, weather you would need to retreat between the 800 and 802D, but the Bass might be a factor. I think treating the room is the way to go if he is unhappy with the acoustics. Getting the 800D will sure soothe the bug but he could still have the same issues. I know in my room adding treatment made a BIG difference in the bass, and focusing. Also I have a dedicated room, so I have no WAF issues I have to bear that in mind for those of us that are not so lucky.

Greg - what rooms treatments did you install to make the 'BIG' difference to the bass?

[GregLett]

Greg - what rooms treatments did you install to make the 'BIG' difference to the bass?

Amdan,

I added the Auralex room treatment starter kit to my room. The room is 10x14x7
with three of the four walls are brick, so you can imagine the problems. I was actually very surprised at the effect it had on the room.

[amdan]

Amdan,

I added the Auralex room treatment starter kit to my room. The room is 10x14x7
with three of the four walls are brick, so you can imagine the problems. I was actually very surprised at the effect it had on the room.

Thanks. Did the bass traps make a big difference? I am interested to know how much effect was due to the bass traps only. I have done a little experimenting with bass traps without a huge amount of success.

[GregLett]

Thanks. Did the bass traps make a big difference? I am interested to know how much effect was due to the bass traps only. I have done a little experimenting with bass traps without a huge amount of success.

It did. I stopped the prolonged bass notes I was hearing. A lot of it has to do with the room also. Can't see the ones at the front, they are only at the top by the way. Here's a peek.

[amdan]

Thanks for the pics. I will keep trying with the bass traps. Is that a Cary 300/303 in the back there?

[GregLett]

Thanks for the pics. I will keep trying with the bass traps. Is that a Cary 300/303 in the back there?

No. That a Jolida JD-100

[RebelMan]

I've had the 802d's for about 2 years. My room is about 19 feet square and open to the rear. The sloping ceilings are 9-11 feet. I'm using McIntosh
MC-501 monoblocks and an Aragon Stage I pre/pro. I don't think the acoustics are very good in the room. Would I benefit from moving up to the 800d's? Is it a marginal improvement or a major one?

You will benefit from doing both but neither will yield ideal conditions. Unfortunately, a square room is the least conducive to optimizing sonics given the propensity for standing waves to interact more frequently throughout the audible bass octaves.

The 802D nasty midbass hump will exacerbate this issue further which clearly you are noticing. Improving the acoustics will help but it will not completely ameliorate your speaker's natural characteristics as it interacts with your room. The 800D will be far more forgiving in this regard because it runs ruler flat across the low frequency spectrum.

If your system is going to be locked into this room for the foreseeable future and you can afford the upgrade to the 800D, then I would suggest you buy the 800D and then treat the room. But whether you buy the 800D or not treating the room is not an option for you.

Moving up to the 800D would be a major improvement in bass but a marginal improvement in the midrange/treble.

[moonlightdrive21]

...The 802D nasty midbass hump...

Hey RebelMan, how are you?

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by this?

Thanks!
Dave

[RebelMan]

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by this?

Hey moonlight, I am doing well, a bit busy but well, thanks for asking.

The 802D produces a +5dB hump between 45Hz and 100Hz which peaks around +7.5dB at 65Hz. The input signals coincident to these frequencies will experience a boost in energy resulting in a thickening of bass production, described by some as a tubby or bloat sounding bass response. The 800D, on the other hand, runs 0dB across the same region thus preserving the integrity of the music source by a wide margin.

[moonlightdrive21]

Hey moonlight, I am doing well, a bit busy but well, thanks for asking.

The 802D produces a +5dB hump between 45Hz and 100Hz which peaks around +7.5dB at 65Hz. The input signals coincident to these frequencies will experience a boost in energy resulting in a thickening of bass production, described by some as a tubby or bloat sounding bass response. The 800D, on the other hand, runs 0dB across the same region thus preserving the integrity of the music source by a wide margin.

Thanks. This is just a guess, but I can see that bass hump making certain music (e.g., guitar rock) sound even better. I know that I speak blasphemy and have made an "audiophile taboo" because what I am implying would mean that coloring the original recording could be good, but I would not be surprised if I liked it when comparing with other speakers that have flatter output in the bass region.

I guess there is no way for me to tell unless I did an A/B comparison with the 802D's and 800's. Even then it would be hard to discern because I would not know if the difference in sound is the bass hump or the superior 800 design for the bass drivers. Hmmm....

[chinets]

800D all the way to the bank my friend!!

Congratulations!!! Couldn't do better Amigo!!

[Relentless]

The 802D produces a +5dB hump between 45Hz and 100Hz which peaks around +7.5dB at 65Hz. The input signals coincident to these frequencies will experience a boost in energy resulting in a thickening of bass production, described by some as a tubby or bloat sounding bass response. The 800D, on the other hand, runs 0dB across the same region thus preserving the integrity of the music source by a wide margin.

now see this is why I refused to audition the 800D when I bought the 802D because I knew I would have to have them. I keep reading stuff like this and it is just a matter of time before I audition them and start obsessing over the fact that I still have 6-7 months to trade the 802D in on them. You guys are killing me :B

[Indytown]

Hey moonlight, I am doing well, a bit busy but well, thanks for asking.

The 802D produces a +5dB hump between 45Hz and 100Hz which peaks around +7.5dB at 65Hz. The input signals coincident to these frequencies will experience a boost in energy resulting in a thickening of bass production, described by some as a tubby or bloat sounding bass response. The 800D, on the other hand, runs 0dB across the same region thus preserving the integrity of the music source by a wide margin.

Rebelman,

Thank you for your determination in being able to identify/research the greatest difference between the 802D and 800D. The last argument I heard was the drivers where bigger and is it worth the $8000 difference for more bass.

There is more to it than bass performance, considering what frequencies the woofers produce in a piece of music.

Again, thank you, the 802D are great speakers, but the 800D's sound totally different to me.

Indy

[Stevebez]

Where do we see the 802D's have a 7.5db hump at 65hz ? and +5db between 45 and 100hz?

The freq response is quoted "34hz-28khz +-3db on reference axis" ... ? So the actual performance is worse than what they are quoting or am I misinterpreting the data and conclusions?

[george_k]

My suggestion would be to measure your room response and then treat the frequency "trouble areas". It won't cost nearly as much as the 802->800 upgrade, you'll notice a definite difference and it may please you enough.

If you go with the 800's now you'll still need to treat your room down the road to get every last bit of good sound out of your system.