803D: Mcintosh 402 or 7B SST's

[nick.h]

I have a choice at the moment either a Mcintosh MC402 at $6,000 or a pair of 7B SST's at $8,000.

I do at a later stage want to power the HTM2D, which if I went for the Bryston would be another 7B SST.

If it was the Mcintosh, not sure what I would do.

Any comments?

[style]

MC - Bryston

@nick.h,

not easy or?

But I'm pro McIntosh. No words.

Bryston is a very serius product but McIntosh is before
I drive my 803s with a RB1092 Rotel and I dream from a MC.

Greetings from Switzerland Omar

[akhter]

i am with style on this...I am thinking about adding a 252 for my 804s. Mac + B&W are a match made in heaven...

[jericho]

I would also advice McIntosh.Why not a pair of 501 blocks for those mains, and after another one for the HTM2D. :T

[nick.h]

I suppose in the end it all comes down to cost.

Pair of 501's are about 16k

[style]

Mc

Hi nick.h,
a pair of 501 is too much!!

I have listened Classè, Krell, Bryston,..but the macht Mc and B&W personaly is better as the other (ex. more advised Classè + B&W)

I will go with a MC252 (x2 for mains - and is very power!) and if do you have good rears a MC205or207.
The system is so overpowered!!! with so set yuo can drive 802D or what do you will.
With a pre MX136 and ampli 207 do you fly at 7x200watt no distorsion sure!!!

I have a 803S and like akhter i see for buy a MC252 (1pc. for mains and listen to)
Omar

[akhter]

yes macs offer a lot of flexibility. you can get a 252, and add a second one if you feel its underpowered. or you can start with a 402 and play it safe. dual 501s are overkill imho, and much cheaper to get dual 252s in bridged mode.

[jericho]

501 is NO OVERKILL for the 803D, for the 803S it is, but 803D they can handle it that's for sure.I've got a pair of those 501's on my 802D's and that's also 500W like the 803D!!!
You'll never play at full power all the time

[jack d]

This is a problem, no doubt. I faced the same dilemma. I tested the MC402 with my 802Ds and loved it. The problem was balance for the center (HTM1D) and the rears (804Ss) since Mac doesn't make a three channel. I considered the 207 for the rest but was concerned about matching power to the center.

In the end I got a very good deal and ended up with 5 MC501s. I don't regret it at all even though the 501s for the rear 804Ss is a bit overkill. Also, while the 402 would have been perfectly good with the 802Ds I did notice improvement with the 501s--not night and day, but still a noticeable difference. It's been discussed a lot around here and other places but the 802Ds really sing with more power.

In any case, don't think you have to pay list price for them. With a little patience and a little luck you can pay a good bit less. What happened for me was that there was a very good deal on Audiogon. I used that to negotiate with my local dealer with whom I had developed a good relationship.

As for the difference between the Mac and the Bryston, both are quality products and I doubt you can go wrong wtih either. I think it boils down to a matter of taste and, if you can, you might want to audition both of them. Some people love the Brystons with their BWs and others love the Macs.

If you do auditon the Macs just make sure to try with both the 8 and 4 ohm taps. There is some disagreement around here about which are better but I found that there was no comparison; the 4 ohm taps are way better with the 802Ds.

[style]

Overkill no but we must are realistic.

I have 803S (front) and 805S (rear) for they mains and rear I have 2x Rotel
RB1092 (2x500watt front and 2x500 rear) plus Rb1091 (mono 500Watt) for center. The Rotel 1092 fro the rear is not a little power...

@jericho -->You'll never play at full power all the time ! 100% with you

I do not how much is big the room, is a dedicat home cinema room,....
A good system is not only a ampli and speakers... exemple much people in the forum do not have acustic pannel or so like that...
Power in not all or better Watt are not all.
Well with a set B&W 802D mains and Htm2D center personaly I will buy a MC207, 2x MC252 for mains, and the MX136 pre.
----> in the head from Eurythmics: Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)

Omar

[earwit]

I agree McIntosh with B&W are the way to go.
Why not just by used Mac equipment
402, 501, or perhaps the 352..
there are plenty of places to buy Mac's used,
and they will last longer then most of us

try audioclassics.com

Bob

[gostan]

I had the opportunity this week to demo the 803D's with the Mac 501's and the 402 as well as the Bryston 7Bsst. I had never really listened to the Mac amps before. For my musical tastes, the Macs are a better fit with the 803D's than the Brystons. There has always been something that has held me back from investing in Bryston amplifiers.

The 501's are in a league of their own, but the 402 is a great match for these speakers. For most of us, there is no reason to pay for the 501's unless you have $$$ burning a hole in your pocket. And you can find some decent deals on A-gon for both.

My N803's and Nautilus HTM1 center were sold this week, so I am awaiting delivery next week of new 803D's and an HTM2D next week. They will be powered for now with a Cary Cinema 5 as I have opted to go for all diamonds across the front, with the amp upgrade to come later down the line.

And unless I can find equal sound for bette value, I will likely go the McIntosh amplification upgrade route.

[RebelMan]

gostan, what did you use for a front-end between the McIntosh and Bryston amps?

[gostan]

gostan, what did you use for a front-end between the McIntosh and Bryston amps?

I started with the Mac C1000C Audio Control Center and the Meridian G08 upsampling cdp. Then I went back and forth between a VTL 6.5 and 5.5 and the Meridian G08, G06 and an Esoteric X03 as I felt that the Mac rack was an unfair comparison with my Anthem D2 and Esoteric SA-60 front end. I also threw a pair of VTL MB-185's and MB-450's into the amplification end.

[yourtoys7]

Mac. + B&W what sold me the 804S, = match made in heaven.

[RebelMan]

The heavenly match is between B&W and Classe' (they were engineered and voiced together) but the B&W and McIntosh combo, given my recent encounter suggests they make good music togther too.

[gostan]

The heavenly match is between B&W and Classe' (they were engineered and voiced together) but the B&W and McIntosh combo, given my recent encounter suggests they make good music togther too.

There are likely many great matches to try out with B&W speaks. My friend Sikoniko and I listened to Classe' and B&W's together last year when he travelled to Boston from Jacksonville for business. Dan was much more enthralled with the Classe' match than I as he is building a Classe' system to go with his B&W N802's, etc.

[RebelMan]

There are likely many great matches to try out with B&W speaks.

Agreed. Choosing between McIntosh or Bryston is like chosing between two luxury automobiles. No can deny that Mercedes and BMW's are equally great cars with stengths and weakness in each. With this analogy I would be inclined to choose Bryston over McIntosh. A complete Bryston setup produces the most transparent sound I have heard to date from solid state equipment. But that transparency comes at a price. It can be somewhat fatiguing with some B&W's.

I believe most people place a higher priority on nostalgia than they do sound quality when it comes to McIntosh. Let's face it, who here would still by a mac if the cool looking blue meters and black face plates were gone? Even I am taken somewhat by the look but not as you might think. The best thing mac has going for it is that you can buy a piece of hardware today without any worry in the future of adding another mac component to your system. It will be a cosmetically perfect match. That is what really defines macs and makes them cool.

[style]

B&W and MC /Classè

@RebelMan,

Ok, B&W and Classè are from the same "group". If do you make a question
at the dealer B&W + Clasè or Bryston the repons is ...with Classè get better....

maybe but personaly I will buy a new ampli for my system (at the moment
al Rotel 2xRB1092 + RB1091 5 channel). Classè, MC or Bryston?
For my Mc is really better....i have read a test in a german-book from
Krell Evo and Mc MC2KW ( around $ 150.000 pro sysetm /only pre-ampl)
well, is treu the winner is not easy to say.... depend rock/bleus/classic music... but in any case MC have the nose ahead.
RebelMan you system is very great, superb no words. but whit a MC you will be sure happy too!!!
----
question whit a pre Classè (ssp300 or 600) and ampli MC207 for HT wht do you think?

Greeting from Switzerland
Omar

[hd99yr]

@RebelMan,

Ok, B&W and Classè are from the same "group". If do you make a question
at the dealer B&W + Clasè or Bryston the repons is ...with Classè get better....

maybe but personaly I will buy a new ampli for my system (at the moment
al Rotel 2xRB1092 + RB1091 5 channel). Classè, MC or Bryston?
For my Mc is really better....i have read a test in a german-book from
Krell Evo and Mc MC2KW ( around $ 150.000 pro sysetm /only pre-ampl)
well, is treu the winner is not easy to say.... depend rock/bleus/classic music... but in any case MC have the nose ahead.
RebelMan you system is very great, superb no words. but whit a MC you will be sure happy too!!!
----
question whit a pre Classè (ssp300 or 600) and ampli MC207 for HT wht do you think?

Greeting from Switzerland
Omar

I just had a chance to compare a mc-402 with 2 ca-m400 in my home with a SSP-300 and 802D's. To make a long story short next week the mc-402 should arrive. I don't know how to describe it but the McIntosh just Sounded smoother and I could listen to it for hours. Those of you with 501's must be on cloud 9 every time you turn them on.

Just for the record it's being mounted in the basement out of sight under my TV because of space problems (no room for a audio rack )so looks have nothing to do with it.

SSP-300 and McIntosh work fine together. Go for it!

Definition of a real friend - someone who arranges a home demo with 2 separate high fi stores for a disabled friend in a wheelchair, picks them up, sets them up and returns them.

Hope all of you can find a true friend like that or be one to someone in your lifetime.

[Eliav]

I just had a chance to compare a mc-402 with 2 ca-m400 in my home with a SSP-300 and 802D's. To make a long story short next week the mc-402 should arrive. I don't know how to describe it but the McIntosh just Sounded smoother and I could listen to it for hours. Those of you with 501's must be on cloud 9 every time you turn them on.

Just for the record it's being mounted in the basement out of sight under my TV because of space problems (no room for a audio rack )so looks have nothing to do with it.

SSP-300 and McIntosh work fine together. Go for it!

Definition of a real friend - someone who arranges a home demo with 2 separate high fi stores for a disabled friend in a wheelchair, picks them up, sets them up and returns them.

Hope all of you can find a true friend like that or be one to someone in your lifetime.

IMHO, the combo ssp 300 and Mac (rather than ssp300 /cam400) is like taking a BMW 750's steering wheel and transmission system then integrating them with an Audi's engine and declaring this mutation as the ultimate driving machine ! :roll:

[RebelMan]

hd99yr enjoy your new MC-402. It's a fine piece given its price advantage over the CA-M400, but don't forget the SSP-300 is responsible for a significantly higher portion of the sound quality you hear. This goes for either the MC-402 or the CA-M400. Smoothness of character and fatigue free listening are the two definitive qualities that defines Classe's house sound. Again enjoy!

[hd99yr]

IMHO, the combo ssp 300 and Mac (rather than ssp300 /cam400) is like taking a BMW 750's steering wheel and transmission system then integrating them with an Audi's engine and declaring this mutation as the ultimate driving machine ! :roll:

Well, until I get the lexicon MC-12HD the SSP-300 will have to suffice. The SSP-300 cam400 just didn't do it for me. Good thing we don't all have to be robots or lemmings. some people shudder at the thought of mixing equipment but I was lucky enough to make an instant comparison with the mix. My only regret might be not ordering 2 mc501's.

I also hate the look of the McIntosh processors and because of their height wouldn't fit in space wise.

On the subject of matching equipment. With home theater I don't think manufactures have caught up to their amplifiers with their processors in all cases. Stereo yes, you should try to match. Hard to argue that lexicon doesn't lead the way in processors right now, but would I buy a lexicon amplifier. Nope!

Before I rile anyone up remember that this hobby is all a matter of Tastes and preferences. Somewhere on the Wilson Forum someone is bashing 800D's in favor of their WATT/Puppy 8

[Eliav]

[QUOTE=hd99yr]Well, until I get the lexicon MC-12HD the SSP-300 will have to suffice. The SSP-300 cam400 just didn't do it for me. Good thing we don't all have to be robots or lemmings. some people shudder at the thought of mixing equipment but I was lucky enough to make an instant comparison with the mix. My only regret might be not ordering 2 mc501's.

I also hate the look of the McIntosh processors and because of their height wouldn't fit in space wise.

On the subject of matching equipment. With home theater I don't think manufactures have caught up to their amplifiers with their processors in all cases. Stereo yes, you should try to match. Hard to argue that lexicon doesn't lead the way in processors right now, but would I buy a lexicon amplifier. Nope!

Before I rile anyone up remember that this hobby is all a matter of Tastes and preferences. Somewhere on the Wilson Forum someone is bashing 800D's in favor of their WATT/Puppy 8[/QUOT

hd9yr
no offense . I agree. this is just a hobby, if a certain combo sounds great to your ears, than this is the right one for you. anyhow, you cant go wrong with brands like Classe or Mac. enjoy.
Eliav

[hd99yr]

hd99yr enjoy your new MC-402. It's a fine piece given its price advantage over the CA-M400, but don't forget the SSP-300 is responsible for a significantly higher portion of the sound quality you hear. This goes for either the MC-402 or the CA-M400. Smoothness of character and fatigue free listening are the two definitive qualities that defines Classe's house sound. Again enjoy!

Thanks Rebel. I'm looking forward to it! Even though B&W bought Classe for the sound match I'm amazed it's about 50/50 split between McIntosh and Classe for amplifiers on this Forum.

[gostan]

Well, until I get the lexicon MC-12HD the SSP-300 will have to suffice.

Save yourself some money and opt for the less expensive and superior (IMO) Anthem D2 over the Lexicon Mc-12HD. There are large numbers of Lexicon owners who have made that choice. In fact many of them have sold their Lexicons' and had lots more $$$ to upgrade their B&W (or other) speakers.

[style]

@gostan,

I'm with you 200%.


I will buy a new pre for my system : No Words the Anthem D2 have all in
(scaler 1080P/24, decoder dd+,true,.., XLR, hdmi, ...

the SSP300 Classè have only big the price nothing else.
(with respect! but the reality is so) A SSP300 without XLR,hdmi, no thank.


Omar

[RebelMan]

I have to agree with gostan that the D2 is a state-of-the-art piece and a worthy upgrade available today for people interested in high-end video scaling and HDMI LPCM decoding of the latest audio codecs. However, the SSP-300 has an edge with sound quality for the standard codecs and single ended analog connections.

If hd99yr were interested in sticking with Classe' I would suggest he wait a while longer until they roll out their next generation SSP-700 processor next year. It will support XLR and HDMI inputs/outputs but don’t expect to see video scaling. They made a design decision to eschew scaling in the second generation SSPs. The decision was based on the fact that current and future displays already include high performance graphics processors mitigating the need for (additional) external scalers for standard definition content and deeming them unnecessary for high resolution sources.

[sikoniko]

I just had a chance to compare a mc-402 with 2 ca-m400 in my home with a SSP-300 and 802D's. To make a long story short next week the mc-402 should arrive. I don't know how to describe it but the McIntosh just Sounded smoother and I could listen to it for hours. Those of you with 501's must be on cloud 9 every time you turn them on.

Just for the record it's being mounted in the basement out of sight under my TV because of space problems (no room for a audio rack )so looks have nothing to do with it.

SSP-300 and McIntosh work fine together. Go for it!

Definition of a real friend - someone who arranges a home demo with 2 separate high fi stores for a disabled friend in a wheelchair, picks them up, sets them up and returns them.

Hope all of you can find a true friend like that or be one to someone in your lifetime.

Im curious... Were you listening to 2 channel music with this setup? As the ssp-300 does not have the built in 2 channel pre, and you will not be doing the system justice, had you demo'd the ssp-600.

I think even MrDoggy would agree, a lexicon will not satisfy your 2 channel listening.

You are spending the money on the 402's, and are going to have good power, but you are still lacking the benefit of either a dedicated 2 channel preamp, or what is built in the ssp-600, or any competitors.

The ssp-300 is engineered and optimized for multichannel sound, not 2 channel.

[hd99yr]

Im curious... Were you listening to 2 channel music with this setup? As the ssp-300 does not have the built in 2 channel pre, and you will not be doing the system justice, had you demo'd the ssp-600.

I think even MrDoggy would agree, a lexicon will not satisfy your 2 channel listening.

You are spending the money on the 402's, and are going to have good power, but you are still lacking the benefit of either a dedicated 2 channel preamp, or what is built in the ssp-600, or any competitors.

The ssp-300 is engineered and optimized for multichannel sound, not 2 channel.

The SSP-300 is designed for stereo. I have mine setup to default to 2 channel stereo when it starts on all devices. To do this follow this procedure --
MENU/SYSTEM SETUP/INPUT/AUDIO/FAVORITE PROCESSING/2 CHANNEL/ - from here, you can select “Stereo” as the default mode for this input. Do be sure to set this mode for each input that you desire to use for 2 channel listening.

You can also use the stereo ir code that it has to enter into your remote. I use a pronto tsu6000.

Your missing so much if your not using your SSP-300 for 2 channel! :T


Thanks for the advice on the lexicon. I haven't really looked into processors since I picked the SSP-300. A deal I couldn't refuse. It will have to do for now and I'm sure I'll be happy with it. Should have everything setup in two weeks and I can't wait. To much work picking everything out, looking for deals, electrical outlets and shelving.

But it will all be worth it when I can enjoy the sound for many many hours!!!!!!!

[sikoniko]

The SSP-300 is designed for stereo. I have mine setup to default to 2 channel stereo when it starts on all devices. To do this follow this procedure --
MENU/SYSTEM SETUP/INPUT/AUDIO/FAVORITE PROCESSING/2 CHANNEL/ - from here, you can select “Stereo” as the default mode for this input. Do be sure to set this mode for each input that you desire to use for 2 channel listening.

You can also use the stereo ir code that it has to enter into your remote. I use a pronto tsu6000.

Your missing so much if your not using your SSP-300 for 2 channel! :T


Thanks for the advice on the lexicon. I haven't really looked into processors since I picked the SSP-300. A deal I couldn't refuse. It will have to do for now and I'm sure I'll be happy with it. Should have everything setup in two weeks and I can't wait. To much work picking everything out, looking for deals, electrical outlets and shelving.

But it will all be worth it when I can enjoy the sound for many many hours!!!!!!!

The SSP may provide Stereo, and I am sure, as all things Classe Delta, sounds great. My point was that the DAC's aren't optimized for 2 ch stereo.

I love my classe, and its always great to see others that enjoy theirs as much as I do mine. Happy listening!

[hd99yr]

The SSP may provide Stereo, and I am sure, as all things Classe Delta, sounds great. My point was that the DAC's aren't optimized for 2 ch stereo.

I love my classe, and its always great to see others that enjoy theirs as much as I do mine. Happy listening!

Sorry for misunderstanding what you were stating. You are correct with the DAC's but to avoid the DAC's I will be using the 7.1 input since I don't have a sacd. That signal bypasses the DAC's and comes as close as you can get to a CP-500. It will be interesting to see the results as you could run an optical and RCA's at the same time and just switch inputs for a instant comparison.

I hope I don't notice to much difference because it's the only input that bypasses the DAC's. Seeing that I don't have a cp-500 to compare it to I may never know what I'm missing also. That might be a good thing! There has to be a stopping point :??

[Glenee]

hd99yr, You are just fine in both of your new pieces. I have had good amps and really good amps. There is a small difference in the really good ones and the MC402 being one of the really good ones. Just enjoy and play around with things. Borrow different cables and such from friends and other Sicko's like me. Put your speakers on the 4ohm taps and break them suckers in for about 50 hrs then try the 8ohm taps see what sounds the best to you. Toe your speakers in and out and then get it really dark( Pitch Black and listen. Move the toe in don't forget to shut the lights off and listen. Play it soft and listen. Then kickem in the ass and LISTEN. Try all the different stuff in the world but first LISTEN. Now how does it sound. Do YOUlike it.That's all that matters.
Congratulations,
Glenee

[Pedro]

Nick,

Try to listen to the Gamut D200Mk3. They rock so much with the 803Ds, and they arent so expensive than the 402 or the 7B sst. They sound very clear without fatigue with a intense and speed bass

[eljr]

Before I rile anyone up remember that this hobby is all a matter of Tastes and preferences. Somewhere on the Wilson Forum someone is bashing 800D's in favor of their WATT/Puppy 8

Anyone have a link?
I can't seem to find it. Thanks
eljr

[sikoniko]

Nick,

Try to listen to the Gamut D200Mk3. They rock so much with the 803Ds, and they arent so expensive than the 402 or the 7B sst. They sound very clear without fatigue with a intense and speed bass

Its stupid of people to bash any speaker of this level. There is no reason for it. I guess money does not equal class. Both speakers are good, it just depends on ones tastes.