Bi-Amping the 802D (and other newbee Questions).

[dmccombs]

I recently upgraded to 802D speakers. Like most new owners of these big speakers, I have a few questions. I will just throw one out for today though.

I have (2) Krell Kav-250a amps. I used Y split interconencts to split the signal, and am using one 2CH amp for each speaker.

The mids and high opened up and the soundstage is much deeper now. I expected this to a point, but I am surprised how deep the soundstage is now. It's great.

But, the bass also opened up and sounds more airy. The best way I can describe it with text is to say the bass sounds like the following:

Before (No Bi-amp): Thump, Thump, Thump-Thump.
After (With Bi-amp): Thum, Thum, Thum-Thum.

The bass is a deep as before but less defined. I want airy highs, but not airy bass.

Does anyone have any ideas about this? Is this what you would expect?

Thanks,
Darrell

[Kobus]

Enjoy, bi-amping worked for you, just enjoy.

Kobus

[beden1]

Check your wires to make sure they are in phase and you didn't cross the wires + and -. Also check the connections to make sure they are tight. Each wire has to be the same quality and length as well.

My 803Ds are also bi-amped and if anything, the base is tight and well defined.

[dmccombs]

So the more airy bass is right?

I was expecting it to be very tight and defined with the increased power.

Enjoy, bi-amping worked for you, just enjoy.

Kobus

[dmccombs]

Beden,

Out of phase was the first thing I suspected. All the wires are the same kind, and they are wired correctly. I will double check tonight.

Regards,
Darrell

[hifiguymi]

So the more airy bass is right?

I was expecting it to be very tight and defined with the increased power.

Bass is what defines the space of the recording (the size of the room, etc.), so airy bass is a good thing!

Eric

[beden1]

Bass is what defines the space of the recording (the size of the room, etc.), so airy bass is a good thing!

Eric

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning?

[hifiguymi]

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning?

All of the detail that describes the room size and liveliness of the room is in the bass region. Most of that information tends to get lost in a lot of systems. Having detail and air in the bass helps the soundstage tremendously!!

Eric

[dmccombs]

Well, I removed the bi-amp. Overall, I considered the pros and cons to come out about even. With that, I may as well sell off the extra amp.

Maybe I will see both off. This would give me ~$3500 to buy new amps for the 802D, and HTM3S center. Can I find better amps for $3500 (used) than my current Krell Kav-250a setup?

The Krell setup is pretty good, but I am wondering if there is a better match in my price range.

Thanks,
Darrell

[beden1]

Well, I removed the bi-amp. Overall, I considered the pros and cons to come out about even. With that, I may as well sell off the extra amp.

Maybe I will see both off. This would give me ~$3500 to buy new amps for the 802D, and HTM3S center. Can I find better amps for $3500 (used) than my current Krell Kav-250a setup?

The Krell setup is pretty good, but I am wondering if there is a better match in my price range.

Thanks,
Darrell

Darrell,

I suspect something else is possibly going on that is affecting your bass output, although, the 802Ds have a more open/less defined bass than do my 803Ds (IMO).

I originally had these speakers powered by a single Krell KAV-250a, and decided to buy a used Classe CAV-150 in order to bi-amp my three front speakers and get 300 watts per channel. The Krell had a strong tight/defined bass output, and I'm surprised you're not getting the same. I am also very happy with my current Classe amp setup for base/mids/highs.

It may be the design of your speakers, but, I'm sure those with 802D speakers are more qualified to express their thoughts than am I. I auditioned the 803D and 802D extensively before my purchase.

[beden1]

Darrell,

The other thing I was wondering, is how many hours do you have on your new 802Ds? I recently replaced my sub woofers in two of my setups, and they are becoming more defined - the more I play them.

There seems to be differing opinions on the performance affects of speaker break-in periods. But, I have noticed the same thing with my 703s and my 803Ds . . . that the more playing time they get, the better the bass definition becomes.

[dmccombs]

Beden,

I got the 802Ds used from my dealer, so they are already broken in. The sound is as you would expect when I drive them with a single 250 wpc amp.

I am just trying to get the best out of them that I can. Since I have the extra Krell amp, I was hoping to imrove things by bi-amping. That would have been easiest.

I could sell of the Krells and buy something in the same range if something would be a better match. Another option is to wait until I can throw more money into the pot and get one of the 2-3 favorties here. That could be ~ 6 months though.

On the bright side, they sound very nice now, even with my Denon 3806 acting as the PrePro. I know they will sound noticably better when I get my Halcro SSP-100 back from the service center.

Regards,
Darrell

[johan]

Beden,

Out of phase was the first thing I suspected. All the wires are the same kind, and they are wired correctly. I will double check tonight.

Regards,
Darrell

I had a similar problem once and after I had triple-checked that my cabling was not out of phase I opened the termination and it turned out that they were terminated out of phase by the store where I bought them.
Worth checking..

Johan.

[beden1]

Darrell,

I just got back from picking up and installing custom granite bases I had made as a solid base for my Velodyne subs in my main PA HT setup. These were sitting on my hardwood floors and the bass tones were vibrating throughout the house. I also put super spikes under each corner of the granite bases.

I just auditioned a couple of pieces and "WOW" what a difference. The bass is super strong and tight, and the house vibrations are history.

What is your flooring?

[dmccombs]

Beden,

I live in a single story house that has a concrete slab, covered with medium pile carpet. I have the 802D spikes installed.

Great idea with the marble slab for the sub. I have a SVS Cylinder sub. They don't believe in spikes. I have wondered if I should get the flat bottom off the carpet like you have done. But, if I upgrade to the Fathom monster sub, it will be a mute point. :twisted:

REgards,
Darrell