Improving 2 channel sound for my 804S speakers

[SPACEMANRICK]

I just found on Craigslist today a 200 watt ROTEL RB-990BX stereo power amplifier for $350 that is about 25 miles from my house. Can I run the ROTEL RB-990BX as my power amp and use my Denon 3805 as the preamp (excuse my ignorance on this but how do I do connect the amp and receiver)? I think this amp was manufactured in 1993, should I be concerned that it is too old and may be on it's last legs and may not be compatible with my Denon 3805 made in 2005? Do you think this may be a better solution for adding more punch and lows than the $800 ASW CM subwoofer?

Thanks for any advice you guys can offer :W

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/ele/563789656.html

[george_k]

I just found on Craigslist today a 200 watt ROTEL RB-990BX stereo power amplifier for $350 that is about 25 miles from my house. Can I run the ROTEL RB-990BX as my power amp and use my Denon 3805 as the preamp

You probably can but you need to check if your receiver has pre-out connections in the back. On some of the lower cost receivers the manufacturers leave this feature out so you should double check to see if your okay.

On a side note if that 990 doesn't work out for you try audiogon, I've scored some good stuff from the US for cheap! There really screw us with pricing up here... I'm from Montreal :-)

[wgriel]

I believe the 3805 has full set of pre-outs, so you should be able to hook up external amplification easily. Whether this solves your problem or not, I can't say.

[NonSense]

I just found on Craigslist today a 200 watt ROTEL RB-990BX stereo power amplifier for $350 that is about 25 miles from my house. Can I run the ROTEL RB-990BX as my power amp and use my Denon 3805 as the preamp (excuse my ignorance on this but how do I do connect the amp and receiver)? I think this amp was manufactured in 1993, should I be concerned that it is too old and may be on it's last legs and may not be compatible with my Denon 3805 made in 2005? Do you think this may be a better solution for adding more punch and lows than the $800 ASW CM subwoofer?

Thanks for any advice you guys can offer :W

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/ele/563789656.html

Spacemanrick

IMO, the 804's should be treated with better source electronics than what you're proposing. In the end, you probably will still be unhappy. Buget HT receivers are good for HT. Very little was spent on their 2CH performance. In my experience, since HT receivers generally are used in systems with a sub for HT, they tend to offer very little bass weight when operated in their 2CH mode. The sonic character which makes for good HT, usually doesn't do 2CH justice. I went down this same road. For years, I regretted changing out my meager 2CH system for a much more expensive HT system when it came to 2CH playback. (Don't get me wrong, the system performed amazing with 5CH HT for which it was designed) I then added an external amp, just like you are considering with only minimal improved results. I had even seriously considered selling my speakers until I finally integrated some 2Ch gear back into my HT system. What a difference.

Remember the performance is restricted by the weakest link. In some cases, receivers without an analog bypass will actually digitize the analog signal for DSP processing before converting it back to analog at the pre-out connection. Even if the unit has a bypass circuit, you are often faced with cheap digital volume control circuits or poor quality components as for the majority of the users, the anaog playback is an afterthought. Anyway, I'm sure you get the point.

You should seriously consider checking out the MF A5 integrated that is listed on Canuckaudiomart in Nanaimo BC.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/79364-musical_fidelity_a5_integrated_amp/

The MF A5 will absolutely outperform any combination you make with the Denon receiver. Very few pieces of multichannel equipment can beat even an average 2CH system. And with the HT bypass feature, you may easily integrate this unit with your HT system.

You should at least have an audition at a local dealer. It will probably save you in the long run.

[RobP]

Spacemanrick,

I am going to have to echo what some here are suggesting, if you want better two channel performance then move on from the Denon Receiver, even with a separate amplifier you will not realize the full potential of those speakers.

If you are looking for performance from your 804's you will need to seek out an high current amplifier, one that is able to raise its power output as the impedence drops, this will offer you much better control and output from your speakers in the bass department, as well as offer better dynamics in the upper ranges. With your budget, you could afford a nice pre-owned Classe CA-201 and a Classe pre-amp such as a CP35 or better If your concern is only two channel. This will take your system to a whole other level, one that with your current setup, will never achieve.

[SPACEMANRICK]

I went and listened to the B&W ASW CM subwoofer today and thought they added extra punch to the 804's on display in the store but was not entirely sold on buying them because I was also concerned about too much muddy boom on the low end.

I decided to go ahead and buy them and give them a try..............well I am blown away by the difference in the bottom end and the body added to almost all of my CD's. I have the controls set pretty low but even at very minimal settings the difference is incredible :T Perhaps the size of my room and the high ceilings needed more extra low end than most rooms but the difference is night and day. I am sure that improved electronics may help some also but in the meantime I am more than satisfied with my system and am happy I chose this route for now.

CD's that I found unbearable before the subwoofer because they were too thin, like the Eurythmics and U2 are now a blast and revelation to listen to!

I have attached an image of the new subwoofer on the floor to the right of the wooden stand holding my receiver :W

Thanks everyone for all your input and help. By the way I heard the 802D's for the first time today at the dealer and was extremely impressed by the imaging and clarity but I am not sure if the step up from my 804's to $16,000 a pair for the 802D's is in my cards any time soon.....

Thanks also Bruce for the link to CanuckAudioMart I have been keeping my eyes open on there and missed the amp that you had linked to me on here...perhaps that will be my next upgrade but in the meantime I will enjoy what I have.

[Isaac]

I can't live without my ASW825 subwoofer for Stereo. Of course I only have the smaller 805s's. I believe the factor that makes the biggest improvement to a sound system is proper room treatment. Even a megabuck Pre-amp/Amp setup will sound bad if they are in a room that is not acoustically good.

[Kal Rubinson]

I can't live without my ASW825 subwoofer for Stereo. Of course I only have the smaller 805s's. I believe the factor that makes the biggest improvement to a sound system is proper room treatment. Even a megabuck Pre-amp/Amp setup will sound bad if they are in a room that is not acoustically good.

He doesn't seem to want to accept that. :E

Kal

[SPACEMANRICK]

Listen "Kal" I if you read my first post, one of the first things I said was that I put in a carpet in my listening room to tame the highs. Sorry that I didn't follow your expert audiophile advice by not buying the bass traps that you seem to think that you know is the very best sound solution for my room.

My music sounds much better with the new subwoofer and I love the sound improvement. Sorry to disappoint you "Kal" that you couldn't prove yourself right but the music sounds better to my ears even with my lowly ASW CM subwoofers.

Thanks again to everyone else for their help. In the future I may still upgrade my electronics but in the meantime I am ecstatic with the improvement in my music........I am now going to go off to listen to some CD's :W

"Rick" :lol:

[RebelMan]

Rick,

I don't think Kal was trying to patronize you but his implicit wording may seem that way. You asked for some suggestions with room treatments but haven't really headed the advice, discounting the domestic treatments you already applied prior to your opening post. Why ask, what now seems like, an indirect question? Are you really looking for help with treatments or advice on equipment? Adding a subwoofer is not improving your 804S's. :W

[Briz vegas]

Well I am glad that Spaceman has found a way to improve his sound and that he is happy with the result. The longer I have been into this hifi thing and the more "audiophiles" I meet the more I am sure that everyone has their own audio holy grail and it isn't the same thing for everyone.

I was given a lecture on my system recently (its really annoying when you are spoken to like a kid at school when you have been playing with audio, on and off, for 20 years - of course many nerds lack social skills so I decided not to take it too personally). I was told to run my system up the long axis (like spacemans actually) instead of across the room and I was told to put my HT in a different room as the speakers would be resonating and stuffing up my 2 channel. Well I tried it and it improved some things but it sounded thin and it did not suit my practical considerations - ie it was not the right set of compromises for me. I have heard audio nirvana on my system and it is a corner bass trap, a power cord and one cable upgrade away.

If Spaceman is like the rest of us he will be looking for another upgrade in 12months time (if he can wait that long). When that happens I am sure he will play with all of the options suggested here, including Kal's.

[sikoniko]

Rick,

what you are going to run up against is the limitations of the 804's. Adding a sub might help, but realistically, if it is 2 channel you are listening to, why not add 2 and have them in stereo?

I personally don't like using a sub with my 2 channel, so I needed a bigger speaker...

There are two things you can do in this situation... decide that you like the speakers, and upgrade everything else, or that the speakers arent delivering what you are looking for... If you choose to stick with the speakers, the biggest improvements will come from treating the room, the preamp, amp and stuff in between... All of which can be equally expensive. There are many variables into what could be effecting your listening experience.

I sincerely suggest you look into getting some sound anchor stands. you will notice greater depth and tighter bass from the speakers and they cost a little more than $200 for the pair... again, what can it hurt to try?

You have to decide what is right for you, but people that try to help you don't deserve to be ridiculed.

regardless, if you ask for advice, why not try it? what can it hurt? especially since Kal's original suggestion was cost effective to identify if it would solve your problem...

[RobP]

Rick, glad to see that you found a simple solution to make you happy :T

[RobP]

I sincerely suggest you look into getting some sound anchor stands. you will notice greater depth and tighter bass from the speakers and they cost a little more than $200 for the pair... again, what can it hurt to try?

Ill second this one........

[Kal Rubinson]

Listen "Kal" I if you read my first post, one of the first things I said was that I put in a carpet in my listening room to tame the highs. Sorry that I didn't follow your expert audiophile advice by not buying the bass traps that you seem to think that you know is the very best sound solution for my room.

My music sounds much better with the new subwoofer and I love the sound improvement. Sorry to disappoint you "Kal" that you couldn't prove yourself right but the music sounds better to my ears even with my lowly ASW CM subwoofers.

Thanks again to everyone else for their help. In the future I may still upgrade my electronics but in the meantime I am ecstatic with the improvement in my music........I am now going to go off to listen to some CD's :W

"Rick" :lol:

Sorry you took my comments as you did. If you choose not to put acoustical treatments into your system, that's fine regardless of the reasons. I did read your note about the carpet and, since that seems to have helped, that minimal application should have suggested to you the validity of the approach.

Kal

[SPACEMANRICK]

Perhaps I was too hard in my response to your post Kal. In hindsight your response was only intended to improve the sound from my speakers, please accept my apologies.

The sound anchors and electronics will have to wait for the next round of upgrades. My wife is now looking for some new furniture so I guess it is her turn now to buy some new toys

[Kal Rubinson]

Apologies accepted. Acoustical treatment has become a bit of a hobby-horse for me.

Kal

[iiaudio]

Getting acoustic treatments and putting my 803s on Sound Anchor stands made a bigger difference in performance than going from Energy C-4 powered by an Integra receiver to 803s powered by RC-1082/RB-1080. That relatively small investment allowed my system to really shine.