803/804 Speakers - Now the sub.

[dmccombs]

I currently have 803s up front and 804s for the rear, with a HTM1 center. My sub is crruntly a SVS 20-35PCI.

I have been working on my room setup. I now think my sub may be my "weak piece" that needs to be improved next. I am hoping this knowledagble grou pcan give some opinions.

I setup my room so I am viewing at the 62% point (room length is 26.66 feet - I am viewing at 17.15) I have given the 804s about 4 fett from the rear wall, and 40" from the sides. The rears have about 20" on each side.

In addition, I have two bass panels and 3 for 1st reflections. I may do more in this area, but I will save that for another day.

Others advise a crossover of 60-80hz. I have read the literature, and think the offloading the bass from the mains/rears make sense.

I don't like crossing at 80hz, because in my setup, I can localize the sub. So I tried crossing at 60hz and 40hz. While at 60hz, the speakers had a little bit sweeter sounding mids, the bass from the sub seemed a little boomy.

When I cross at 40hz, I loose just a little of that sweetness in the mids (not much - have Krell amps with good headrrom). But at 40hz, he bass sounds much tighter with the sub handling only the <40hz signals.

I have heard the SVS sub are good. Is maybe the little bit of boominess I hear becuase it is not EQd. I have considered adding an SMS-1. Or, do I need to upgrade my sub to something like a Velo DD-12?

Regards,
Darrell

[RobP]

Darrell,

Sounds like you have a nice room peak in the bass area around 50hz according to your description, have you tried moving your sub around a little bit to see what effects it has? If not this may be your first and cheapest thing to try.
OTOH, you may want to upgrade to a "faster" subwoofer. Servo driven subwoofers seem to work well with B&W. The Velodyne would be a good choice. In my setup which consist of N803's, HTM1, and N805's for surrounds, I found that the Martin Logan Descent was perfect in my setup. I have mine crossed over at 60hz.
See if you can find a dealer that will give you a loaner sub for the weekend and try it out.

[chinets]

No!! Please ! ASW 855 ONLY :T ;x( That Sub would sound superb with your current speakers set up! :T
Please trust me , and you'll be happy with the same timbre and tight bass of your speakers.

[dmccombs]

Chinets,

But I heard B&W subs suck. :rofl: OK, I heard there are better subs for the money.

Is the 855 better than the Velo DD-12 or 15 with the built in EQ? And if I get the B&W, I assume I still need SMS-1 to EQ it for best results? That's $3000 used altogether...

Regards,
Darrell

[scanido]

I haven't heard neither and actually will be in the market for one at the end of the year. From what i gathered the DD series is at a level above B&W subs. This is from all the reading i have done over at avsforums where they are sub craZy! :evil:

I would recommend the DD series or even the new JL Audio subs.

[akhter]

I currently have 803s up front and 804s for the rear, with a HTM1 center. My sub is crruntly a SVS 20-35PCI.

I have been working on my room setup. I now think my sub may be my "weak piece" that needs to be improved next. I am hoping this knowledagble grou pcan give some opinions.

I setup my room so I am viewing at the 62% point (room length is 26.66 feet - I am viewing at 17.15) I have given the 804s about 4 fett from the rear wall, and 40" from the sides. The rears have about 20" on each side.

In addition, I have two bass panels and 3 for 1st reflections. I may do more in this area, but I will save that for another day.

Others advise a crossover of 60-80hz. I have read the literature, and think the offloading the bass from the mains/rears make sense.

I don't like crossing at 80hz, because in my setup, I can localize the sub. So I tried crossing at 60hz and 40hz. While at 60hz, the speakers had a little bit sweeter sounding mids, the bass from the sub seemed a little boomy.

When I cross at 40hz, I loose just a little of that sweetness in the mids (not much - have Krell amps with good headrrom). But at 40hz, he bass sounds much tighter with the sub handling only the <40hz signals.

I have heard the SVS sub are good. Is maybe the little bit of boominess I hear becuase it is not EQd. I have considered adding an SMS-1. Or, do I need to upgrade my sub to something like a Velo DD-12?

Regards,
Darrell

I run the DD12 with the N804, and its a hard combo to beat...

[ZX10 Guy]

I run an HGS15 with an SMS-1 and a DD18 with my N804s. :B

[ssabripo]

what's your budget? this will make it easier to recommend something. the SVS/HSU offerings are very good bang for buck. The Velo DD15/18 are extremely accurate and have very good extension. The JL Fathoms (F112 or F113) are probably the cream of the crop at this point. There is also the Mark Seaton Submerssive, and several other options.

or you could go DIY and blow all of the above out of the water at 1/2 the cost.

[dmccombs]

Well, I would prefer to spend nothing, if I could get away with it.

I did take some time today and I think I have the 20-39pci configured as best as I can without an EQ. It sounds good, but I know it would sound better with an EQ. This would cost $500-$600. I can spend that.

I guess if I have to buy a whole new sub with EQ, I could go about $1800. If I go this route, I wouldn't mind buying used. But, I would really have to know that this would be a big increase in SQ.

Regards,
Darrell

[KEF]

Well, I would prefer to spend nothing, if I could get away with it.

Truthfully I think Soundgravy has given the best advice - it isn't like you have a $50 HTIB tinker toy sub on your hands.

That SVS is solid, 320W extending way down - it is your money, but I would move that sub all over the room until you found the spot that drops out the "boominess" before upgrading.

I would start with the crossover at 60 and then start moving the sub until you find something you can live with, but again, just my opinion.

We have very similar room size and set ups 803s, Krell Amps, etc, but I have a much larger SVS (PB12-Plus/2), and only use it for HT only... I can break things in my neighbors house with that monster!

Regards,
Keith

[chinets]

dmccombs,
IMHO I do believe the ASW 855 are better than any of the Velodyne ,whether it is DD 12, 15 or 18 !! :T ;x( Sad, but true IMHO, and with my ears ,and I run 800D for L&R and 4 802D for surround and the HTM1D :T and those 2 ASW subs are what makes the rest of my speakers shine. They match and mix perfectly with my set up, and believe me, I heard and auditioned Velodyne. Velodyne is great, but with B&W 800 series, they intigrate better ,and they match the typical B&W sound better. :T I find the ASW 855 is more tight , faster and more accurate, and has that LOW gut smooth bass, that I was always looking for. ;x( :T
If you say B&W ASW 855 suck well that is your opinion!! :W :rofl: But, MOST people that have serious B&W 800 series set ups end up with the ASW 855 subs as it is is essential! Ask Aldo on this forum, and others, that have serious 800 seies? See what they say. Aagain this is all ones personal taste and one's ears, so I can't argue more than that!! :roll:
Cheers!!

[ZX10 Guy]

IMHO I do believe the ASW 855 are better than any of the Velodyne ,whether it is DD 12, 15 or 18 !!

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=326224&postcount=16

[ssabripo]

dmccombs,
IMHO I do believe the ASW 855 are better than any of the Velodyne ,whether it is DD 12, 15 or 18 !! :T ;x( Sad, but true IMHO, and with my ears ,and I run 800D for L&R and 4 802D for surround and the HTM1D :T and those 2 ASW subs are what makes the rest of my speakers shine. They match and mix perfectly with my set up, and believe me, I heard and auditioned Velodyne. Velodyne is great, but with B&W 800 series, they intigrate better ,and they match the typical B&W sound better. :T I find the ASW 855 is more tight , faster and more accurate, and has that LOW gut smooth bass, that I was always looking for. ;x( :T
If you say B&W ASW 855 suck well that is your opinion!! :W :rofl: But, MOST people that have serious B&W 800 series set ups end up with the ASW 855 subs as it is is essential! Ask Aldo on this forum, and others, that have serious 800 seies? See what they say. Aagain this is all ones personal taste and one's ears, so I can't argue more than that!! :roll:
Cheers!!

WOW.....pretty bold there!! :roll: I guess I could also say that an Audi 2.0T is better than a BMW M3 because it "integrates better" and "feels more" like an Audi to me.





dmccombs, I design and build my own subs, and have owed a slew of subs including SVS's PB12-ISD, PB12 Plus/2, and PB12-Ultra. For example, here is my last DIY AV15 subwoofer (on the right) and the SVS PB12-Ultra (on the left).....the AV15 sounded like an Ultra/2 for ISD prices!
(click to enlarge)
Currently, I'm building a pair of collosal and massive subs using the Avalanche 18" drivers with XBL^2, in mamoth Tubes of 650L tuned to 12.2 hz, in-room frequency flat to single digits......extremely musical, accurate, and yes, DEEEEEEP. Think Infinite Baffle on the go.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=756408

The whole point of saying this is, that there are many options out there for you. If you are trying to get rid of the boominess, this is something that room placement and EQing can do for you. If you dont like the acoustical signature of the SVS, then perhaps the new HSU HO would fit your bill for under $1k.

If you want to spend $1.8k with EQ and some bells and whistles, and you want a sub that will be an absolute killer, then go into the used market and search for either a DD15 or an F112 at that price....either one will integrate better (whatever that means....accurate bass is accurate bass, and very musical), sound better, and have much deeper extension. I love B&Ws, but most of us who are not fanboys know that their Achilles heel is their subs.

Like I said, you could also build your own with a pair of TCsounds TC3000 drivers or a pair of Adire Tumults 15"s or Fi Audio Q18s, and throw a nice Crown K2 amp, and some EQ (either an SMS-1, a DEQ2496, etc), and you would have immaculate bass.......just need a couple of weekends and some tools (or perhaps your neighbor's tools):

http://tcsounds.com/tc3000.htm

good luck

[sikoniko]

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...4&postcount=16

I can't speak directly to anyone elses findings, but I will agree that the B&W 800 series subs integrate perfectly with b&w speakers.

tests might represent a subjective view, but it is only 1 piece of a puzzle. you still need to rely on your own opinion, and not what someone elses.

[ZX10 Guy]

I can't speak directly to anyone elses findings, but I will agree that the B&W 800 series subs integrate perfectly with b&w speakers.

tests might represent a subjective view, but it is only 1 piece of a puzzle. you still need to rely on your own opinion, and not what someone elses.

Yes. And I refrained from adding my own opinions as they are just that just like the saying about opinions and the exit oriface down south. With test measurements on subs you can get a pretty accurate impression on how the sub is going to perform. Of course a follow up with subjective listening is a must but I have problems with people making blanket statements like what chinets has been doing on two threads about subs.

I'm in total agreement with ssabripo's post above.

But if you want my personal opinion about how Velodyne subs integrate, I can tell you equivically, that they integrate very well. I have 3 Velo subs a HGS12, HGS15, and a DD18. I use the HGS12 with a pair of N805s. I use the other two subs in a setup with 4 N804s and an N HTM1 center. I have no issues with integration and the bass quality is spot on. Not only do my subjective listening tests back this up but the actual measured in room response given by both the DD and the SMS backs this up too.

[dmccombs]

Chinets,

Thanks for the advise. I appreciate it, especially since you have been able to compare the 855 to the Velodyne.

Obviously the B&W subs don't suck. I just wanted to "pull your chain" a litle bit. :twisted:

You keep refferring to the 855 as LOW. But the spec sheets say the DD-12, etc. are lower (17hz vs. 22hz). Can you elaborate on what you mean by "deep low"?

Thanks,
Darrell

dmccombs,
IMHO I do believe the ASW 855 are better than any of the Velodyne ,whether it is DD 12, 15 or 18 !! :T ;x( Sad, but true IMHO, and with my ears ,and I run 800D for L&R and 4 802D for surround and the HTM1D :T and those 2 ASW subs are what makes the rest of my speakers shine. They match and mix perfectly with my set up, and believe me, I heard and auditioned Velodyne. Velodyne is great, but with B&W 800 series, they intigrate better ,and they match the typical B&W sound better. :T I find the ASW 855 is more tight , faster and more accurate, and has that LOW gut smooth bass, that I was always looking for. ;x( :T
If you say B&W ASW 855 suck well that is your opinion!! :W :rofl: But, MOST people that have serious B&W 800 series set ups end up with the ASW 855 subs as it is is essential! Ask Aldo on this forum, and others, that have serious 800 seies? See what they say. Aagain this is all ones personal taste and one's ears, so I can't argue more than that!! :roll:
Cheers!!

[dmccombs]

Kef,

I did as you suggested, and the sub is now in the best viable spot. The response is better and smoother, but the setup still sounds better crossed at 40hz, than 60hz.

I think I will need a sub EQ to really get it smooth. I just dont want to buy an EQ, then find out that I really need a better sub.

The SVS 20-39pci is a good sub and I have never come close to running out of power in my 3360 cubic foot room (plus openings). In fact, I have the sub turned up less than 25%, and the AVR set the sub at -5DB.

I just wonder quality wise, if I am where I want to be. My local dealer has a used B&W825 sitting around. Maybe I show demo that to see how different a "better quality" sub will sound.

Thanks,
Darrell

Truthfully I think Soundgravy has given the best advice - it isn't like you have a $50 HTIB tinker toy sub on your hands.

That SVS is solid, 320W extending way down - it is your money, but I would move that sub all over the room until you found the spot that drops out the "boominess" before upgrading.

I would start with the crossover at 60 and then start moving the sub until you find something you can live with, but again, just my opinion.

We have very similar room size and set ups 803s, Krell Amps, etc, but I have a much larger SVS (PB12-Plus/2), and only use it for HT only... I can break things in my neighbors house with that monster!

Regards,
Keith

[dmccombs]

Ssabripo,

Thanks for the advise.

I can barely put up shelving (handyman challenged), so the DYI solution is out for me. But I will check out the other suggestions.

Thanks,
Darrell

[ssabripo]

Ssabripo,

Thanks for the advise.

I can barely put up shelving (handyman challenged), so the DYI solution is out for me. But I will check out the other suggestions.

Thanks,
Darrell

no problem :T

also, if you wanna upgrade the sub, SVS is coming out with their new Ultra PB13 (replacing the now discontinued Ultra 12"), and they will have an EQ box (called the AS-EQ) based on Audyssey...that should be a KILLER combo.

[dmccombs]

Just a terminolgy check. SVS doesn't have an upgrade program (trade in), do they. I assume you mean that I buy a new sub and sell off my curent on right?

I heard a little bit about the AS-EQ1. ~$750 with a ~4 month wait. The literature doesn't say how many correction points it makes in the 20-120hz range.

I have a Denon 3806 receiver with Audessey, and it only make 2-3 adjustments in that range which obviously isn't enough. The AS-EQ1 will make many more, but it would be noce to know how many. I would hope at least 8 as the SMS-1 can do that many.

Regards,
Darrell

also, if you wanna upgrade the sub, SVS is coming out with their new Ultra PB13 (replacing the now discontinued Ultra 12"), and they will have an EQ box (called the AS-EQ) based on Audyssey...that should be a KILLER combo.

[KEF]

Kef,
The SVS 20-39pci is a good sub and I have never come close to running out of power in my 3360 cubic foot room (plus openings). In fact, I have the sub turned up less than 25%, and the AVR set the sub at -5DB.

I just wonder quality wise, if I am where I want to be. My local dealer has a used B&W825 sitting around. Maybe I show demo that to see how different a "better quality" sub will sound.

Thanks,
Darrell

Darrell,

It sounds like you've got the upgrade bug that we all get from time to time... haha

In any case yes, if you have a need to go down this road, I would say that your idea of the in home demo is logical. At least you'll convince yourself one way or the other and have real world evidence. The worst case is you invest nearly 2K into a new sub only to find out the "boomieness" was a function of the room itself.

Again, the sub you have is no slouch, FWIW.

I do not use a sub when listening to 2 Channel music so I really wanted something to shake the room during HT. I am upgrading to the 802Ds at the end of the month, but even when I had the N804s I never used my sub for music.

Best of Luck,
Keith

[dmccombs]

Keith,

I really don't have the upgrade bug (for a sub anyways). I do want to upgrade my prepro, so I waould prefer to NOT have to do anything with the sub right now.

I have done a lot of work on the setup and placement. I think I do need a couple more bass traps, but not a new sub. I also may want to add an EQ later, but I will see how the bass traps help.

Enjoy the 802Ds. Everyone who gets those really seem to enjoy them.

Regards,
Darrell

[KEF]

Keith,

I really don't have the upgrade bug (for a sub anyways). I do want to upgrade my prepro, so I waould prefer to NOT have to do anything with the sub right now.

Regards,
Darrell

Darrell,

OK, I'll bite then - do you really need a sub to augment the 803Ss driven by a Krell???

Again, I only ask because my set up is the 803Ss, a Krell FPB-300cx and a Krell 280p pre - and I really like the sound, and have never once given any thought to adding in a sub.

I wouldn't do it (it's a philosophy thing) but I have never felt the need to do it either.

I listen to a wide range of music, and Chemical Brothers are in the mix often, they work the 803S quite a bit, bass is very good and the Krell really puts out the juice, so to speak. It always heats my large room up a few degrees!

Anyway, just curious -

Cheers,
KEF

[chinets]

dmccombs,
Thanks for your kind words. When I said low..I really meant deep and very gut slaming bass. That very deep, smooth, and accurate extremely fast bass I was referring to.
Sorry, I confused you!! ops:
I still believe in them ASW 855 :T ,whatever anyone says, Sorry, but my ears like the B&W over Velodyne ,unless you are into hard rock, then Velodyne yourself all you want!! 8O
Cheers amigo!

[dmccombs]

KEF,

I use a Denon 3806 as a prepro with Krell amps. I think that a sub is definetly a plus with movies. The sub gets lower than the 803s can and provides greay umph for when needed.

For music, I think the need for a sub is borderline, but I do think it helps for music with deep bass. Most music doesn't go down past 28hz (the 803s lower limit), but some music does, and I find the sub helps in those cases.

Again, this is using the Denon as a prepro. When I auditioned a Krell HTS 7.1, it did bring out bass much better so that could explain the differences we are seeing.

Regards,
Darrell

Darrell,

OK, I'll bite then - do you really need a sub to augment the 803Ss driven by a Krell???

Again, I only ask because my set up is the 803Ss, a Krell FPB-300cx and a Krell 280p pre - and I really like the sound, and have never once given any thought to adding in a sub.

I wouldn't do it (it's a philosophy thing) but I have never felt the need to do it either.

I listen to a wide range of music, and Chemical Brothers are in the mix often, they work the 803S quite a bit, bass is very good and the Krell really puts out the juice, so to speak. It always heats my large room up a few degrees!

Anyway, just curious -

Cheers,
KEF

[bigburner]

Darrell,

Upgrading your sub is an excellent idea, but setting it to 40Hz makes no sense at all. Let me explain...

The lowest octave that can be heard (20Hz to 40Hz) has hardly any energy at all in most music. It contains mainly room rumble. Try for yourself by switching off all the speakers in your system other than the sub and then set your sub’s filter to 40Hz. Rumble, rumble, rumble.

If you are interested in films (movies) - with explosions, stampeding dinosaurs and earthquakes - then managing the first octave (20Hz to 40Hz) obviously becomes much more important. However I presume we're talking about music here?

If you listen to classical music then the main sounds you will hear in the first octave are the bottom end of the double bass, harp and contrabassoon (see attached chart). Large pipe organs also go into the first octave. Other esoteric instruments achieve these low frequencies too, but I’m talking about mainstream instruments here.

If you listen to modern music the second octave (40Hz to 80Hz) mainly contains the frequencies of the low bass guitar notes and the kick drum. Bass and drums are commonly referred to as the “rhythm section” in a band. The lowest note you will usually hear is 41Hz on a 4-string bass guitar, although 5-string bass guitars can go down into the low 30’s. The thump of the kick drum is in the 60Hz to 100Hz range.

Therefore, if you set your sub to 40Hz you will miss the chest thump of the kick drum, unless you’ve got really substantial floorstanders. A lifeless kick drum sound degrades the energy level of most modern music genres. You’ll also miss much of the energy from the bass guitar too. Bye bye rhythm section. A good sub solves this problem.

I use the filter in my sub to pass frequencies 80Hz and above to my floorstanders. My sub plays 80Hz and below. I avoid boom and localisation by taking great care to adjust the volume of my sub for each CD and DVD. I further minimise the localised sound of the sub by placing it dead centre between my floorstanders.

I should point out that I have fairly modest floorstanders (see attached). If I had a pair of 800D’s it might be a completely different story.

All I can tell you is that by carefully integrating a sub I have turned my modest speakers into substantial speakers at a very modest cost. You may be able to do the same.

Nigel.

[chinets]

Nigel, ( Mr. Bigburner )
Thanks for your very detailed, Informative, intersting explanation you gave us. Very Intersting!
Cheers and have a wonderful day.

[ssabripo]

Darrell,

excellent information provided by Nigel...read in detail. One note, as he said himself, is that you have to find a good medium between your floorstander's capabilities, your listening habits, and your room acoustics.

for example, I have two giant avalanche 18" subs tuned to 12 hz, with a pair of 802s, and the best combination for me has been 60hz....but that could be completely different for you, and with a single SVS plus cylinder, there is more work to do:






Goto Audioholics.com and search for a link on subwoofer frequency crossover point, under bass management, and you will see a very detailed article on how to test for the best combination of XO point for a given room and speaker/sub combo.

[dmccombs]

Nigel,

Thanks for the in depth reply. It is terrific

Your speakers are like the current 804s which I have in the rear in my setup. Up front, I have the 803s which has a slightly bigger box and woofers. This makes for a great comparison.

Each paragraph you wrote makes sense, but thus far in my system, the 40hz crossover point lets me hear more bass than at 60hz. I hear a more solid kick drum crossed at 40hz than at 60hz.

BUT, I have noticed that there is better quality of Bass and mids when I do cross at 60hz. I think I just need to turn the sub up a bit when crossing at 60hz.

I could try 80hz even, but I use my system for HT, 2CH Music, and 5.1 Music. So when you recommend to put the sub in the middle, that means behind the TV. In my setup, that would mean right against the front wall.

I did try putting the sub in the middle behind hte seating position but it was to easy to localize at 80hz.

Thanks for the terrific info Nigel. I will do some more experimenting with the concepts you outlined.

Regards,
Darrell

Darrell,

Upgrading your sub is an excellent idea, but setting it to 40Hz makes no sense at all. Let me explain...

The lowest octave that can be heard (20Hz to 40Hz) has hardly any energy at all in most music. It contains mainly room rumble. Try for yourself by switching off all the speakers in your system other than the sub and then set your sub’s filter to 40Hz. Rumble, rumble, rumble.

If you are interested in films (movies) - with explosions, stampeding dinosaurs and earthquakes - then managing the first octave (20Hz to 40Hz) obviously becomes much more important. However I presume we're talking about music here?

If you listen to classical music then the main sounds you will hear in the first octave are the bottom end of the double bass, harp and contrabassoon (see attached chart). Large pipe organs also go into the first octave. Other esoteric instruments achieve these low frequencies too, but I’m talking about mainstream instruments here.

If you listen to modern music the second octave (40Hz to 80Hz) mainly contains the frequencies of the low bass guitar notes and the kick drum. Bass and drums are commonly referred to as the “rhythm section” in a band. The lowest note you will usually hear is 41Hz on a 4-string bass guitar, although 5-string bass guitars can go down into the low 30’s. The thump of the kick drum is in the 60Hz to 100Hz range.

Therefore, if you set your sub to 40Hz you will miss the chest thump of the kick drum, unless you’ve got really substantial floorstanders. A lifeless kick drum sound degrades the energy level of most modern music genres. You’ll also miss much of the energy from the bass guitar too. Bye bye rhythm section. A good sub solves this problem.

I use the filter in my sub to pass frequencies 80Hz and above to my floorstanders. My sub plays 80Hz and below. I avoid boom and localisation by taking great care to adjust the volume of my sub for each CD and DVD. I further minimise the localised sound of the sub by placing it dead centre between my floorstanders.

I should point out that I have fairly modest floorstanders (see attached). If I had a pair of 800D’s it might be a completely different story.

All I can tell you is that by carefully integrating a sub I have turned my modest speakers into substantial speakers at a very modest cost. You may be able to do the same.

Nigel.

[dmccombs]

Ssabripo,

Dayum, couldn't you find a real sub? ;-)

18" and 12hz... You must have those lights and TV bolted into the frame of the house.

Regards,
Darrell

[ZX10 Guy]

dmccombs,
Thanks for your kind words. When I said low..I really meant deep and very gut slaming bass. That very deep, smooth, and accurate extremely fast bass I was referring to.
Sorry, I confused you!! ops:
I still believe in them ASW 855 :T ,whatever anyone says, Sorry, but my ears like the B&W over Velodyne ,unless you are into hard rock, then Velodyne yourself all you want!! 8O
Cheers amigo!

:roll:

[bigburner]

ssabripo, when you say "giant" you're not exaggerating are you? Amazing!

[chinets]

ssabripo,
Wow, Nice pics!! :T Thanks for showing us your system!! Congrats!!


NOW, ZX10 Guy,
:E 8O Having a writing Block or just trying to rock the boat here! :rofl: :W

I guess you want to rock the boat!!

:roll:

[ZX10 Guy]

ssabripo,
Wow, Nice pics!! :T Thanks for showing us your system!! Congrats!!


NOW, ZX10 Guy,
:E 8O Having a writing Block or just trying to rock the boat here! :rofl: :W

I guess you want to rock the boat!!

:roll:

No but you certainly are with some of your comments that can only be classified as ignorant at best.

unless you are into hard rock, then Velodyne yourself all you want!!

[DM3000 Owner]

How is everyone here hooking up their Velodyne DD series subs? Are you going from your preamp to the sub then using the sub's output to your power amps (using the sub's internal crossover for your mains) or are you runnign parallel from your preamp with one leg to the sub and one leg to your power amps (running your mains full range)?

I would want to make sure that the subs crossover is outstanding so that the signal from the preamp is not degraded.

[ZX10 Guy]

How is everyone here hooking up their Velodyne DD series subs? Are you going from your preamp to the sub then using the sub's output to your power amps (using the sub's internal crossover for your mains) or are you runnign parallel from your preamp with one leg to the sub and one leg to your power amps (running your mains full range)?

I would want to make sure that the subs crossover is outstanding so that the signal from the preamp is not degraded.

I'm running my L/R mains and L/R surrounds full range (center set to small) from my Meridian processor. The subs are running in parallel with only using the crossover set points with the DD and SMS. I'll be experimentiing with running one sub dedicated to producing the upper bass range below 80 Hz and the other the deep bass. From what I've read about with people doing this has intrigued me enough to give it a try.

[bigburner]

I would want to make sure that the subs crossover is outstanding so that the signal from the preamp is not degraded.

I'm happy to use my ASW750's crossover because I assume that B&W knows how to make top quality crossovers. It's a core competency of a speaker manufacturer.

[miner]

I use a B&W ASW sub with my N804. I send full range to N804 and cross my sub @ 60 Hz. I have yet to try using sub internal Xover (80 Hz) to amp and then amp to mains.

[chinets]

zx10Guy &quot; Be Polite on this forum!! And you will get respect!

No but you certainly are with some of your comments that can only be classified as ignorant at best.

ZX10 Guy:


That is down right rude of you!! :E
People have their own opinions and I love B&W ... So I am considered "ignorant" because I love B&W over Velodyne!! :T Very childish of you!! 8O
You should be ashamed of yourself and grow up!!! Don't be so close minded!!
Have some respect and manners on this forum, because you are so rude!! :evil:
Hope you have a nice day and get over your PMS !!! :rofl:
Cheers
P.S. Be polite and earn your respect!!! :W

[ZX10 Guy]

ZX10 Guy:


That is down right rude of you!! :E
People have their own opinions and I love B&W ... So I am considered "ignorant" because I love B&W over Velodyne!! :T Very childish of you!! 8O
You should be ashamed of yourself and grow up!!! Don't be so close minded!!
Have some respect and manners on this forum, because you are so rude!! :evil:
Hope you have a nice day and get over your PMS !!! :rofl:
Cheers
P.S. Be polite and earn your respect!!! :W

I just call it how I see it. It's fine that you have your preference with B&W subs. But your never ending statements which are presented as fact and are also veiled insults to those that differ from your opinion to me is down right childish. I see you didn't even address why I called you ignorant in the quoted excerpt I put up. I think you need to go back and re-read everything you've posted up as to who was instigating what. I never posted up saying B&W subs suck as opposed to what you've been saying about Velodyne. I only added my own opinion about Velodyne when someone else pressed me for my take.

BTW, respect is earned and only given when it is due. And the ones crying out for respect are typically the ones that deserve it the least.

[dmccombs]

Can you guys take this to PM so the thread can stay on track?

[ZX10 Guy]

Can you guys take this to PM so the thread can stay on track?

You're right. Sorry about the thread jack. Chinets, we can continue this "intellectual" dissertation in PM if you so desire.

[chinets]

Sorry dmccombs too,

For ZX10Guy, I never said Velodyne are bad!! I just said I prefer B&W subs!!
Velodyne are great subs: There: does that make you happy again!! I hope so as nothing ever satisfies you!!
No, I don't want to PM you. You are NOT worth it, sorry!!!

I'm back on track dmccombs ,and I appologize that we high jacked this thread from you! I just can't stand Rude people, that are aggresive when you have done nothing.
Sorry guys!!
I'm out of this thread!!
Cheers!!