Help me

[Kobus]

I currently use N803, not driven by much.

A very good friend is upgrading his 802D to 800D. Good for him.

So, I can buy his one year old 802D's, at a discount of +- 25% on the new price (maybe not such a good friend ). This is the same as about +- 15% above the new price of the 803D's.

I am currently happy, but you know......................

Obviously you will say
- it's your choice
- you will love the improvement
- etc...

I am not super rich, this will come out of my savings, and I am supposed to be a conservative accountant.

And I will have to drive them.

So what is my question?

You know how I feel at the moment. Help.

Thank you

Kobus

[dyazdani]

First, what is your current amp? Second, I think 25% off of new on a 1 year old speaker is a little high. I would offer him less.

[Jesse111]

I agree. He would be hard pressed to find someone to pay him 75% of new price and then most likely have to pay for shipping too. I'd offer him 60% price of new at the most or else keep what you have. I've known some dealers who will sell for 25% off of brand new for good customers. Where do you live?

[Aldo]

I also know dealers who sell with 25% fro new speakers, so I suggest you wait, I'm shure that when ever you want them you can get the same price or better!

[Kobus]

Hi, thanks for the help so far.

My amplificaton at the moment is a 120wpc receiver that will anyway be replaced soon.

The 25% is off the nett retail price here in South Africa, in other words already discounted. (+- R90 000 new).

Kobus

[Aldo]

Well, then they should be about 40% less of the list price, in that case I say go for them!

[Clepto]

Well, keep in mind, that generally speaking, most people can get 100% of their 1 year old B&Ws when 'trading up'...

[RNKC]

I know things are expensive in SA. Having said that, 90,000 Rand is about $14K Canadian or $12.5K US. On Audiogon, 802D generally seem to run $9500 US so the price does seem a bit steep.

On the actual upgrade itself, I currently have N802. Moving to 802D was not enough of a sonic difference that I could realistically justify the price. But I would think that moving from N803 the difference will be much greater. I know that when I listened in the store, I thought N803 was very good but N802 was much better. To my ears, it was like moving to a different class of speaker which in a way is true since N802 and above have a different midrange than N803 and below. So price aside, I think you'll very much enjoy the sonic difference between N803 and 802D.

But then of course, you know that you'll end up wanting to replce the amplifier shortly thereafter ... You're already on that path so this purchase will just increase / accelerate the desire for an upgrade.

[RobP]

Kobus, Although the chance to upgrade to a N802 is tempting, you may want to consider upgrading your power to your N803's, you may be suprised to find that there is still alot of hidden suprises in those speakers, I went through the same process myself. I first started by feeding mine 120w of Rotel power, which was not bad , but I knew that the quality of what I was hearing was lacking, since then I have gone through two upgrades of Classe power and both times have realized positive benfits of doing so. If you can get the chance to audition an in home demo of a high quality amplifier, I would do so, you may find a new pair of speakers hiding in your N803's. :T

[ShadowZA]

Kobus, this is a tough one. If I were in your shoes, I know what I would want to do, but it is not necessarily what I WOULD do.

The ONE thing which scares me is that you would use your savings to do the deed. As you know, there is a potential danger in this. As a fellow accountant I would seriously recommend keeping retirement funds a number one priority, whilst at the same time building a separate and realistic financial provision (independently) for the audio hobby. If you can remember, I was seriously tempted to break into "my" savings and acquire my system all in "one go". It was a tough decision ... but I purchased in stages (piecemeal) and have ended up being happier for it.

The thing to note (and this is where I concur with what Soundgravy says) is that any of the B&W 800 series really need to be coupled with high-end/reference quality hardware. I am of the opinion that your N803's are superb and will provide you with a noticeable performance boost by upgrading the processor & amplification ... not forgetting about a decent source player too.

Even if you are able to acquire the 802D's at a most favourable price, you will (in addition) need to spend between say R50 000 and R150 000 to get those babies to perform as they should (or close) or else they will simply disappoint.

I have recently undergone this process and only now can I say that my 803D's are being fed a decent signal and are performing close to their best.

Good luck, Kobus

[Kobus]

Thanks all,

And Shadow, I will be carefull and apply GAAP (generally accepted audiophile practice).

Kobus

[SPACEMANRICK]

"And Shadow, I will be carefull and apply GAAP (generally accepted audiophile practice)" :lol:

Coming from another accountant, lets leave the accounting humor off of here! I was diagnosed with a serious illness last year which I have been able to overcome. Life is short, balance savings with enjoying what you can when you can, keep that in mind also.........

I do think also that you should be getting more than 25% off these speakers from your friend. The dealer took off close to 30% of the retail price on my 804S speakers when I bought them last year. I think 35% to 40% off of retail would be a pretty fair price for both parties.

[D-bucket]

...It was a tough decision ... but I purchased in stages (piecemeal) and have ended up being happier for it...

I too agree with this approach of acquiring the major components of your dream system piecemeal or in stages. It does require discipline and patience, but among the many advantages and rewards are:

- having a strong motivation to put some extra funds aside regularly in anticipation of future purchases
- purchasing only when discretionary funds are actually available without the need to dip into savings or household expenses
- possibly being in a better position to take advantage of any unexpected great deals that sometimes present themselves during this period of time
- being able to hold out for those items you really want instead of settling for compromises
- eventually arriving at a system that you can really be proud of

But this graduated approach may not be for everyone. There are those that feel quite strongly it is better to have a much lessor system that is well balanced all around now than to have a system in progress with great speakers like the 802D's but with inadaquate or inferior electronics & source components to feed them in the meantime. I, on the other hand, would say that if you can get those 802D's without breaking your piggy bank, get them! Having said that, I also would think that price for your friend's 1 year old 802D's isn't discounted enough to be a great deal.

Soundgravy, I had a real good laugh when I first saw your new avatar. Now that is just too funny! :rofl: And it is holiday appropriate also. :T That really made my day.

[RobP]

Soundgravy, I had a real good laugh when I first saw your new avatar. Now that is just too funny! :rofl: And it is holiday appropriate also. :T That really made my day.

:lol: Glad you like it, I bring him out once a year to help set the mood for Thanksgiving. :B

[sikoniko]

my question is, do you have a goal in mind for your system? For me, I knew I wanted 802's, and I upgraded every chance I could until I got them. Now that i have them, I am working to bring my other pieces up to par. I have a new proc on order and just got a new CDP. next year, I hope to get new amps. I honestly have no desire to get diamonds at this point. I may hold out until the next generation to be perfectly honest. Im not getting the most out of them yet anyways, why upgrade again until they have maxed themselves out?

If you goal was for the N803's, I say keep them and use the money to upgrade your electronics. If your goal is to get the 802d's, go for them.

Your an accountant, and you understand ROI and depcreciation. I am going to try and put my stuff on a 5 year depreciation cycle, except for dvd player and vid game system, which is subject to change on a moments notice.

If you depreciate your speakers on a 5 year basis, that would only be 20%, so for me, 25% might be good. especially from a known resource, where you know what you are getting and can safetly transport them to your house. Id steer clear of considering audiogon or an auction house with speakers of this size. You just don't know what your getting.

[Kobus]

can safetly transport them to your house.

If decided, transport will still be tough without boxes. Any advise out there?

Thanks for your advice.

Kobus

[georgev]

Perhaps get your local dealer to help you out, you don't want to damage those speakers.
BTW you have not heard the full potential of the 803's yet due to inadequate amplification. Try to amplify them as they deserve to be and then make your call.
Good Luck.

[BTB]

Kobus

George's advice is right on the money.

Your existing speakers are great and the reciever you're powering them with is probably not doing them justice. I can imagine that the temptation is huge at present but if I were in your shoes I wouldn't want to end up out of pocket and frustrated with a pair of underpowered 802's which will probably force your hand sooner than later (at even greater expense) to get a more suitable amplifier.

I just upgraded my amplifier recently & kept my speakers (a humble pair of 704's) and it's been an absolute revelation to me what they are actually capable of with proper quality (and power) driving them. I know that this anecdote might be of limited application in your situation, but I'm sure many others will have had similar experiences.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[misterdoggy]

Kobus,

Just my 2 cents

25% isn't really worth jumping at. Hell, 25% is what all the dealers in Germany are ready to offer and more. .......

Let your "friend" sit on them and while he is pacing around and definitely not finding any other takers, will acept a lower offer.

Hey, Its only fair that you buy them at the correct used price, not a real good discounted new price. After all they are not new ?

I would have to say that you probably will see more resluts in some changes on the back end, better amplification, and sources before changing speakers. They N802 and 802D are very similar to a degree.

[Kobus]

GOT THEM.

Made a deal.

R60 000 for those from SA.

I will need to spend something NOW on amplification etc !!!!. Will seek advice soon.

Thank very much for the input.

ps. Doggy I am upgrading from N803.

Kobus

[misterdoggy]

GOT THEM.

ps. Doggy I am upgrading from N803.

Kobus

Kobus,

N803 to 802D is a jump worth taking. !!!!!!!!!! ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

Enjoy them :T

[ShadowZA]

Congratulations, Kobus :T

Man, I am happy for you.
Get ready to enjoy.

[georgev]

Congats Kobus, now get ready to be entertained.

[caleb]

Kobus - well done - they werent mine were they?

Did we speak last week?

You will enjoy those 802 immensely.

Give me a PM and I'll send you my address - come and listen to my system to give you an idea of what 802s can do with a decent front end.

[chinets]

Congrats!! Now you got a fair price and if they were well taken care off then you did a sweet deal my friend!! Well done!!

Now you are up there with the BIG leaguers!!!!!!!!!!

Amplification is going to be your soar point now, as you will need to spend some serious $$$$ to get those 802Ds singing!!!
Well as you have gone to the second hand world, I believe you will have to get yourself a second hand Krell, Classe, Bryston or Mac amp to get these puppies yelping!!! I personally hate going the second hand route, unless I know the person very well ,and know how he treats his equipment.
If you go NEW I believe Rotel High end Power amp would be the best bang for your buck, but would they give total justice to those 802Ds is another story, but they will run them well for sure and you just might be happy with this combination unless you buy second hand again, or dig deep into your savings for a smashing NEW high end Amp that will give those 802Ds a ride for its money!!!! Like Krell or Classe for starts!!

Good luck and keep us posted!!
Cheers and CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charles]

Kobus, your patience paid off well!! Take your time and listen to several different amps before making your final purchase. Can't go wrong with Krell, Classe or Mac at this point as everyone suggests. Best of luck and enjoy!!

[Kobus]

[QUOTE=chinets]

Amplification is going to be your soar point now, as you will need to spend some serious $$$$ to get those 802Ds singing!!!

Damn, when your are in deep, you really are in deep.

Well as you have gone to the second hand world, I believe you will have to get yourself a second hand ....

There is not really a second hand market in SA, not big anyway. And I will be very hesitant to buy second hand. Unless from a friend where you know how the stuff was treated.


Thanks all.

Kobus