PV1 Setup

[Nolan B]

I could use some help with something i cant get my head around.

Currently I have my PV1 hooked up to a RSP 1068 via the Coax sub cable for home thearter use. I just bought a RCD 1072 and wish to hook it up via the analog cables to bypass the 1068 however it looks like I will get no LFE to my sub that way and my B&W FPMs deffinately need the sub.


My PV1 came with a "stereo" connection which looks like a phone jack on one side and wire on the other. I assume its to plug into the PV1 and attach right to the speaker wire connection on the amp. Does anyone know if its possible to use BOTH the stereo connection and Coax connection so I can have the sub in use with bypassing the prossessor for Stereo playbe and have the coax usd for HT?

[Briz vegas]

Should'a bought a Rel mate !!!

Ok that was not very helpful of me now was it, but Rels are designed to work that way and that is how I have mine set up!

I have to think back a way to my failed attempts to setup a PV1 (I failed to achieve what I wanted, but I also learnt a bit, like the crossover on your PV1 only works on the high level input- seems even most B&W dealers don't know that one).

Your suggested hook up option will definitely work fine for 2 channel as there is no low level input in that mode. For multi-channel it is a bit of a question mark as both high and low signals will hit your pv1 at once. While Rel recommends this B&W are silent on the topic. I would email the tech support guys at B&W with that question (it is the only question I did not ask them) I found them very helpful.

And don't worry about the telephone quality wires, I was reassured by the tech guys that they tried options with decent quality cables but with the high level signal this did not make a difference so they went with the neatest solution.

[Nolan B]

Ok that was not very helpful of me now was it, but Rels are designed to work that way and that is how I have mine set up!

I have to think back a way to my failed attempts to setup a PV1 (I failed to achieve what I wanted, but I also learnt a bit, like the crossover on your PV1 only works on the high level input- seems even most B&W dealers don't know that one).

Your suggested hook up option will definitely work fine for 2 channel as there is no low level input in that mode. For multi-channel it is a bit of a question mark as both high and low signals will hit your pv1 at once. While Rel recommends this B&W are silent on the topic. I would email the tech support guys at B&W with that question (it is the only question I did not ask them) I found them very helpful.

And don't worry about the telephone quality wires, I was reassured by the tech guys that they tried options with decent quality cables but with the high level signal this did not make a difference so they went with the neatest solution.

Thanks for the reply. It would make sense that is should work. With the crossover set to 80 for 5.1 home theater via the coax I dont see any interference with having the phone jack hooked directly to the speaker wire fore stereo.

Durring stereo bypass play no signal will even be going through coax, and durring HT nothing above 80 will be sent to the speakers (and in this hook nothing below 80 t te sub VIA stereo set up. Is my logic correct?

Is the phone jack one the "high level input"? In that case it would be a good thing. That way when I listen to stereo I can set it to 80 and when I listen to LFE from the coax connection I can turn down the cross over on the PV1 so it isnt getting (or outputting) two signals...right?

[Briz vegas]

I had to draw up a table to work that out but the answer is theoretically yes. Although you should have said in the second sentence "nothing below 80hz will be sent to the speakers" or the subs high level input, and then the subs high level crossover filters out the signal above 80, with a net result of no high level signal to the sub.

Of course this assumes that your subs crossover and the receivers crossovers are "brick walls" at 80hz, where as in reality they will most likely have a more gentle transition, fading out above and below 80hz. This is where your suggestion of turning the crossover down in 5.1 HT mode to ensure that no high level signal comes through may be a good idea. If you had speakers with more bass response this might not be required as you would have the crossover set lower anyway.

Of course you can test this by ear if you have some test signals on a CD. In HT mode unplug the low level coax connection and the speakers then feed the system an 80hz sign ( or something either side) and you should hear nothing. This should help to understand exactly how the crossovers on the receiver and sub are behaving. Maybe you can just leave your crossover at 70hz if the response curve is steep; set and forget.

Of course if the PV1 handles both signals happily then this might not even be an issue.

Good luck and let us know how you go !!!

[Nolan B]

can anyone see why this wouldnt work? Switch it to the input with the cable to my sub when I want to listen to Stereo and switch it to the other socket with no cable when i want the LFE to work for home theater.


Is this solution to simple? am i missing someting?

[Nolan B]

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Nevermind. It wont work becuase a standard phone jack only uses 2 wires inside and the phone jack for the PV1 (while the same size) has 4 wires.

Anyone know know what esle uses 4 wires with this kind of cable? maybe I can find another switcher. DAMN I WAS SOO CLOSE! :M

[BlazeMaster]

I believe the cable itself was called RJ23 from the B&W manual, I've had the PV1 for around half a year and I used the RJ23 connection and the regular sub RCA cable plugged in at the same time.

[Nolan B]

I believe the cable itself was called RJ23 from the B&W manual, I've had the PV1 for around half a year and I used the RJ23 connection and the regular sub RCA cable plugged in at the same time.

did this cause any issues for you when you were watching movies and getting a signal from both the LFE and the RJ23 at the same time?

Did the sub just dissregard the signal from the RJ23 if it was getting one form the Coax?

[Nolan B]

In case some finds this thread looking for the answer I was it appears that the PV1 can be hooked up by both the Stereo connection and LFE connection. This allows you to use it for both HT and Stereo bypass. :T

[fordster]

Thanks Vancouver. Although I don't own a PV1 I have been considering getting one and this question was one that had occurred to me.

[Nolan B]

Thanks Vancouver. Although I don't own a PV1 I have been considering getting one and this question was one that had occurred to me.

to be safe I would turn down the cross over on the sub when watching movies. This will cancle most of the double signal..in case its happending and I donty know about it. Dont worry as te sub cross over on the PV1 only controls the stereo intput and doees not effect the LFE

[WI Rotel]

Best solution is 2 subs, one for each side. Since you are using Rotel all you have to do is set it to stereo (lt+rt+sub) rather than to 2 channel bypass. If you use 2 subs placed at the same distance from the mains stereo effect is not affected. The result is quite spectacular and much better than simple 2 channel stereo. PV1 bass is only bettered in fidelity and extension the 800 or 801, 2 PV1's offer significantly better bass than the 802. If 2 subs break the bank you can do the same thing with one sub but then it must be set equidistantly between the mains.

[Nolan B]

Best solution is 2 subs, one for each side. Since you are using Rotel all you have to do is set it to stereo (lt+rt+sub) rather than to 2 channel bypass. If you use 2 subs placed at the same distance from the mains stereo effect is not affected. The result is quite spectacular and much better than simple 2 channel stereo. PV1 bass is only bettered in fidelity and extension the 800 or 801, 2 PV1's offer significantly better bass than the 802. If 2 subs break the bank you can do the same thing with one sub but then it must be set equidistantly between the mains.

This is not realy a solution. The purpose of bypassing the Rotel processor is to get the full benefit of the DACs on the CD player. In my case the 1072 sounds much better. If you use the L+R+Sub in the prossesor then the signal must go through the pros DACs. If that happens much of the money you invested in a high quality CD player was for nothing


2 subs will only give more power. Even if you used 1 sub for just stereo and 1 for HT the stereo sub will still give a partial ouput durring movies because it hooked directly to the speaker wire. The purpose of the setup was being able to use the PV1 for two reasons.

1. LFE via Coax for home theater.

2. CD bypass with use of a Sub. The only way to do this is to hook up the PV1 via its stereo cables (the telephone looking ones)

[WI Rotel]

This is not realy a solution. The purpose of bypassing the Rotel processor is to get the full benefit of the DACs on the CD player. In my case the 1072 sounds much better. If you use the L+R+Sub in the prossesor then the signal must go through the pros DACs. If that happens much of the money you invested in a high quality CD player was for nothing


2 subs will only give more power. Even if you used 1 sub for just stereo and 1 for HT the stereo sub will still give a partial ouput durring movies because it hooked directly to the speaker wire. The purpose of the setup was being able to use the PV1 for two reasons.

1. LFE via Coax for home theater.

2. CD bypass with use of a Sub. The only way to do this is to hook up the PV1 via its stereo cables (the telephone looking ones)

I tried that, unfortunately you can't connect both at the same time. The DAC of the 1068 is pretty darned good. One point to ponder is, if you are connecting the CD via digital connection to the 1068 you are bypassing the CD's DAC already!

[Nolan B]

I tried that, unfortunately you can't connect both at the same time. The DAC of the 1068 is pretty darned good. One point to ponder is, if you are connecting the CD via digital connection to the 1068 you are bypassing the CD's DAC already!

The point is you dont want to bypass the DAC in the CD player. When I say listen in CD bypass i mean CD bypass mode on the 1068. Sorry if i was vague on that

Why do you say you cant connect both at the same time? I have both connected with no issues.

[BlazeMaster]

The PV1 is designed so that you can "daisy chain" 2 together, but both sub cannot be hooked up to the amp via the RJ23 cable. It's been a long time since I've had the PV1 in my posession, I'd ask one of the other PV1 owner regarding this.

[Nolan B]

The PV1 is designed so that you can "daisy chain" 2 together, but both sub cannot be hooked up to the amp via the RJ23 cable. It's been a long time since I've had the PV1 in my posession, I'd ask one of the other PV1 owner regarding this.

Not to to sure what you mean by this, but I have a PV! and have it hooked up both ways. Tell me waht signs are there that show me its not a good idea to hook my PV1 both ways?

[WI Rotel]

Not to to sure what you mean by this, but I have a PV! and have it hooked up both ways. Tell me waht signs are there that show me its not a good idea to hook my PV1 both ways?

When I tried to connect the sub via the Phone jack connector the first time I got a ground loop hum. I contacted BW and they informed me that an RCA plug was required, they promptly shipped me one (it was included on my second PV1 however). After that expirience and since my stereo is in a place where it s very difficult to change connections I left it alone. I understood your point on the processor, the point I was trying to make is that if you use your CD digital "OUT" to connect it to your processor, you have already bypassed your player'sDAC. To truly bypass your processor and use your player's DAC you have to use the line level (RCA) outputs. :W

[Nolan B]

When I tried to connect the sub via the Phone jack connector the first time I got a ground loop hum. I contacted BW and they informed me that an RCA plug was required, they promptly shipped me one (it was included on my second PV1 however). After that expirience and since my stereo is in a place where it s very difficult to change connections I left it alone. I understood your point on the processor, the point I was trying to make is that if you use your CD digital "OUT" to connect it to your processor, you have already bypassed your player'sDAC. To truly bypass your processor and use your player's DAC you have to use the line level (RCA) outputs. :W

agreed.

I have not experience a ground loop with using both setups. It could be the Richard Grey unit has fixed that. The only problem I see (in theory) with having both connections is durring 5.1 home theater use the sub is getting a signal from the Coax LFE, and the stereo connection.

I dont know whats happening inside the PV1 as a reslut of getting two signals. I do not hear any difference if I unplug the stereo connection, so I assume the PV1 ignores the signal when getting LFE. Again this is an assumption, and when I asked B&W they said they didnt know either.

I would be very interested if someone has access to a more tecnically inclined person at B&W to ask what the PV1 does when getting two signals at the same time.

[Briz vegas]

Little knowledge can be dangerous

I have just posted a problem I am experiencing which is very similar to this on the Home theatre part of this forum, only I am using a phase reversing pre-amp which is causing the head aches.

My solution posted above worked for me while I was running the receiver as a pre. When I put in a phase reversing pre amp for two channel and made some assumptions about the high level connection I got into major trouble.

[Nolan B]

I have just posted a problem I am experiencing which is very similar to this on the Home theatre part of this forum, only I am using a phase reversing pre-amp which is causing the head aches.

My solution posted above worked for me while I was running the receiver as a pre. When I put in a phase reversing pre amp for two channel and made some assumptions about the high level connection I got into major trouble.

I dont think i fully understand what you mean. Can you please explain what a "phase reversing amp" is?

How do you have things hooked up now and what the major problems you are experiencing?

[Briz vegas]

Basically I blew up my amp because I hooked up the sub the wrong way. It would seem that because my Rel has only 3 wires you must connect it as per the instructions or amp damage can occur. I hooked it up with the postive and negative reversed to compensate for the fact that the amplifier outputs an out of phase signal. This may be ok when 4 wires are used like you PV1, but the Rel is wired differently with a shared - input and 2 positives (3 wires in total).

I am sure that you have heard of people accidentally connecting speakers with the wires swapped so that they are out of phase and you do not get the central image to the sound.

Most amplifiers take the phase correct signal from you cd/dvd and output a phase correct signal. You hook up your speakers on the amps output with the positive wire to the positive and negative wire to the negative, and everything sounds right.

There are phase inverting pre amps and power amps that output the sound inverted. If you have a pre and a power amp that both do this the final signal is phase correct. If only the pre does it (like my CJ), and the power amp does not do it, you need to hook up your speakers with the positive wire to the negative on the amp and negative wire to the positive.

The idea behind a phase inverting amp is that it cuts out the additional circuits necessary to most pre and power amps to put the amplified signal back in phase after it is amplified. The simpler audio path is meant to give a purer signal at the end.

I like to think of it like magnifying glasses or cameras that give you an upsidedown image - two in series will give you the image the right way up.

[Nolan B]

Basically I blew up my amp because I hooked up the sub the wrong way. It would seem that because my Rel has only 3 wires you must connect it as per the instructions or amp damage can occur. I hooked it up with the postive and negative reversed to compensate for the fact that the amplifier outputs an out of phase signal. This may be ok when 4 wires are used like you PV1, but the Rel is wired differently with a shared - input and 2 positives (3 wires in total).

I am sure that you have heard of people accidentally connecting speakers with the wires swapped so that they are out of phase and you do not get the central image to the sound.

Most amplifiers take the phase correct signal from you cd/dvd and output a phase correct signal. You hook up your speakers on the amps output with the positive wire to the positive and negative wire to the negative, and everything sounds right.

There are phase inverting pre amps and power amps that output the sound inverted. If you have a pre and a power amp that both do this the final signal is phase correct. If only the pre does it (like my CJ), and the power amp does not do it, you need to hook up your speakers with the positive wire to the negative on the amp and negative wire to the positive.

The idea behind a phase inverting amp is that it cuts out the additional circuits necessary to most pre and power amps to put the amplified signal back in phase after it is amplified. The simpler audio path is meant to give a purer signal at the end.

I like to think of it like magnifying glasses or cameras that give you an upsidedown image - two in series will give you the image the right way up.

interesting, and I learned something new today. I am surprised to hear that if you swap the positive with the negative you only get an unclear central image to the sound. I woudl have thought the outcome would be much worse.

[WI Rotel]

interesting, and I learned something new today. I am surprised to hear that if you swap the positive with the negative you only get an unclear central image to the sound. I woudl have thought the outcome would be much worse.

This is correct, if you "switch" one of the of the channels one of the channels it causes the sound to be "out of phase" which means one speaker is "pushing" while the other is "pulling" thus working out of unison. If such a problem happens all you have to do is switch the polarity in one of the speakers, it doesnt matter which. The pos and neg symbols have nothing to do with anode and cathode, they are simply symbols so you can keep your wiring the same for both sides and have them cooperate (in phase), rather than fight each other. if you were feeding mono signals to the speakers and they were connected out of phase in theory they would cancel each other's sound!

[Nolan B]

This is correct, if you "switch" one of the of the channels one of the channels it causes the sound to be "out of phase" which means one speaker is "pushing" while the other is "pulling" thus working out of unison. If such a problem happens all you have to do is switch the polarity in one of the speakers, it doesnt matter which. The pos and neg symbols have nothing to do with anode and cathode, they are simply symbols so you can keep your wiring the same for both sides and have them cooperate (in phase), rather than fight each other. if you were feeding mono signals to the speakers and they were connected out of phase in theory they would cancel each other's sound!

just curious. What does it sound like. Is it possible someoe could have them switch nd not know it?

[Briz vegas]

B&W or Stereophile CD will show you

You can try it yourself by simply swapping the + & - on your speakers (don't do it on the sub just to be safe).

B&W were giving away a test disk with new speakers called "interactive owners guide" that had test signals and there is also the Stereophile disk that does the same. It goes something like...."The bass guitar you are about to hear was recorded equally loud in both channels and in phase. You should hear a clearly defined central image........The bass guitar you are about to hear was recorded equally loud in both channels and out of phase, you should not hear a clearly defined central image".

If what you hear is the opposite of the dude on the cd then you speakers are hooked up positive to negative and therefore out of phase, except in my case :roll:

[WI Rotel]

just curious. What does it sound like. Is it possible someoe could have them switch nd not know it?

All "test" CD's have a phase check track. The sound simply lacks focus rather than centered as in stereo. Its easy to tell the difference specially on a monotone male voice.