Grills on or off?

[Jesse111]

I did some extensive A/B stuff the other day. Grills on Grills off. Well, I'm not sure if I could truly tell a difference. But, a few times I "thought" I did. So, what does that mean? Well, it means that since I think I might be able to tell the difference, I don't think I can leave the grills on. You see, just thinking I might can tell leaves me with a measure of doubt way back in the mind that I just can't live with.

Then I began to reason on the matter to further justify the conclusion that deep down inside I truly wanted to come to. Yes of course, proving a conclusion. One of the best things an audiophile can do. Find "facts" to prove a forgone conclusion. Takes a little practice but anyone can do it.

So, I took the grill. I held it in my hand over my ear as I sit in my favorite chair. I began to think. If I had ten of these grills stacked together and held them over my ear, I would certainly hear a difference without a doubt. So, that means, no matter how small, no matter if I can truly hear it or not, there must be a difference with the grills on vs. off.

My grills are now off. And I have all the hard science I need to support my decision.

[William]

Anything that is placed between the driver and your ears will cause some change in reflection and/or absorption of the sound waves. Grills off always.

[Jesse111]

Anything that is placed between the driver and your ears will cause some change in reflection and/or absorption of the sound waves. Grills off always.

Yes, I agree and that is certainly true. But can we all tell in a blind test? I must admit I had a bit of trouble. I think I can tell but I'm not sure I could all the time in many circumstances.

And I accidentally polled for them On. I now have them off. Can one of you kind moderators change my poll from On to Off?

[tboooe]

Take It Off Baby!!!

[RobP]

So, I took the grill. I held it in my hand over my ear as I sit in my favorite chair. I began to think. If I had ten of these grills stacked together and held them over my ear, I would certainly hear a difference without a doubt.

Now this is something only us guys would do, I can only imagine the level of ridicule I would receive from my wife for doing something like that. :rofl:

[RobP]

Can one of you kind moderators change my poll from On to Off?

:scratchhead: I dont see a way do that, Ill check it out though.

[Karma]

HI All,
While it seems reasonable to assume that the grilles would alter the sound, the real question is whether the difference is an improvement.

Speaker engineers spend many hours voicing their creations. Part of the voicing process is aimed at compensating for subtle things like the grilles. You can bet that all B&W designs are compensated. It's our decision to decide if we want to live with the designers ideas.

Over the years I have used speakers both with the grilles on and off. Generally, I prefer them on and my current 805S system has grilles mounted. I really dislike tweeters that grate on my ears and the grilles usually reduce that effect. In fact, I really dislike tweeters, period! But, living with speaker systems using conventional drivers, tweeters are a fact of life. The best I can do is find speakers that use tweeters that are not terrible. My main music system uses Martin Logan CLS IIA electrostatics so there is no choice.

But, since it so easy to do, we can and should experiment. As with most hings hi fi, there are no pat answers. Only your ears will reveal the truth.

[Jesse111]

It may be worth mentioning that grills are off at Abbey Roads.

[Karma]

HI,
This was a duplicate post which I removed. Sorry.

Sparky

[miner]

I honestly believe grills were designed for the WAF, but in case of B&W 800 series (and other series , too), they are just too pretty to hide. My first speaker upgrade in the 1970's (Altec to JBL 100) the foam crate grills on the JBLs certainly did affect the sound but they looked so much better with them on than off.

[style]

on or off

If do you will only a good look off, sure better probabily a little bit in the performance too (with wht for mesure-maschine :B )
but for a long time life of the woofer&tweeter ON is sure the better solution

omar

[Rolex]

FWIW some speaker manufacturers design their speakers to be played with the grills in place. Paradigm is an example that comes to mind.

For those of us that are really into "taking it off" keep in mind the tweeter pod also has a grill. You haven't officially become naked until that grill comes off.

[RebelMan]

Jesse, perhaps now that you have undressed your ladies you can fully appreciate the delima I am in. What will it be for you now? Aluminum or plastic? (Hee Hee). Too bad you can only vote once but you can always add new comments. :B

How about adding a third option to your poll with the label "Both"

[RebelMan]

Speaker engineers spend many hours voicing their creations. Part of the voicing process is aimed at compensating for subtle things like the grilles. You can bet that all B&W designs are compensated. It's our decision to decide if we want to live with the designers ideas.

This begs the question "How does one know which way the speakers have been voiced?" If I had to take a wild guess I believe B&W voices them (at least the 800 series) with the grills off. I drew this conclusion from a graphic displayed in their brochure. Again, I am only speculating. Karma is clairvoyance another one of your talents or do you know something concrete about which way B&W does it?

[Karma]

HI Reb,
Good point. I don't know.

Sparky

[Jesse111]

Jesse, perhaps now that you have undressed your ladies you can fully appreciate the delima I am in. What will it be for you now? Aluminum or plastic? (Hee Hee). Too bad you can only vote once but you can always add new comments. :B

How about adding a third option to your poll with the label "Both"

I actually didn't think about polling for both. I'm sure some do interchange. I guess we'd call that... transgrilling?

Ok, enough with the jokes.

Phase plugs;
Since my ladies have officially gone naked, I will definately be using the metal phase plugs. Oh yes, much smoother highs, more air and presence. More articulation and transparency. Ever so slight increase in image detail. Sounds more like analog. Even the bottom end is more defined with more authority somehow. I also grew 2 inches and lost 20 lbs right after I installed them. Can't believe I ever listened to music with out them all these years. Did I tell you Britney Spears stopped by for a spot of tea? We had a delightful time discussing business, politics and things of that sort.


You was ready for a fight about half way through that paragraph now weren't you? Go ahead you can admit it. I wanted to fight myself as I was writing it.

Just like my bi-wiring, meaningless, but they look cool. And they feel cool too 'cause they're heavy. So I'm gonna use em. Yes, it's a trade off because now they are more noticeable against my decor but it's worth it to me. Besides, now I get to see the wife do her cute little march of the penguins whenever she feels like pushing my button.

BTW, I say metal plugs because they're attracted to the magnet. Don't think Aluminium does that. Explanation?

[Karma]

HI Reb,
Actually, this whole grille question puzzles me in the context of the 800 series speakers. From the point of view of sonics, I have never heard the grille make a difference in the midrange-only to tweeters. But the 800 series only has grilles over the mid and bass drivers. I assume that folks are not talking about removing the wire grille from their expensive tweeters. So, they must be talking about sonic differences in the mid range.

I guess it is possible since the 800 series midrange extends up into the lower treble cutting off at 4kHz. Is that what we are discussing?

In contrast, most competing speakers I have heard have a grille that covers all the drivers. In that case we could limit the discussion to the treble but not here.

It would be more clear to me if someone would describe the precise differences they are hearing. That would help define the issue for me.

Sparky

[yourtoys7]

Grills off shure sounds better, or I like to think so! but most times they stay on :>

[Clepto]

In fact, I really dislike tweeters, period! But, living with speaker systems using conventional drivers, tweeters are a fact of life. The best I can do is find speakers that use tweeters that are not terrible.

You could always invest in a pair of Bose speakers, they don't have tweeters (; 8O

[Clepto]

Aesthetically, I prefer the grills off, but I have a cat, and the grill will prevent the driver from becoming a chew toy (;

[Karma]

HI clepto,
Why would I do that? You know there are great speakers that don't have multiple, specialized drivers. As I mentioned above, my electrostatics are full range speakers. Yes, no tweeters. Or midrange either, Or, horrors, no woofer. Of course, they don't do great bass. I guess you can't have everything.

Tweeters are at best a compromise. Every speaker designer would love to get rid of them if they could. But they can't because conventional cone type speakers simply can't cover the required frequency range. There is no virtue in drivers which are specialized to a particular range.

Since they are necessary, we buy the best if we can. B&W's are one of the best. That doesn't mean I have to worship what is basically a necessary compromise.

Sparky

[DM3000 Owner]

Not a hard decision.

I ran my grills off until I decided that I had to put them on when the cleaning people are over. After putting them on I decided that my speakers look better with the grills on, so now the N801's have them on and the DM3000's have them off (except when the maids come - can't trust them to be careful).

[RebelMan]

You was ready for a fight about half way through that paragraph now weren't you? Go ahead you can admit it. I wanted to fight myself as I was writing it.

How about if I just admit a chuckle here and there?

Just like my bi-wiring, meaningless, but they look cool. And they feel cool too 'cause they're heavy. So I'm gonna use em.

I think the jury is still out on this. Did you try putting your bi-wires up to your ears? I think your grill theory can apply here too. :lol:

Seriously, I am still not convinced that they add no benefit. As another poster commented in another thread B&W is very specific about how the speaker cables should be connected to the binding posts and they do recommend bi-wiring whenever possible. I know Kal's B&W source may downplay the benefits. However, there exists a number of other B&W sources that suggest otherwise. As we all know every little bit helps.

BTW, I say metal plugs because they're attracted to the magnet. Don't think Aluminium does that. Explanation?

I don't have one. But that doesn't change the fact that B&W calls it a "solid aluminum plug". :roll:

[jim777]

I think grills on my 703's change the sound, but I keep them on anyway for protection. If I'm in for really serious listening I'll take them off.

The tweeter grill also comes off, but I'm afraid to break my tweeter if it's not on..