Tritrix with grills...

[CADman_ks]

First of all, let me say that I think that I hate this hobby!, or whatever is. :P It's more like an addiction! After getting my Stentorians done, I had to build something else, and now the hunt is on. And, more importantly, I HAVE to have a reason to go out there and just listen to them. 8)

My current plan is to build my two daughters some "nice" speakers that don't break MY bank. Get them a nice entry level receiver, and get them going on their own HT/stereo setup. Something that they can build upon as they go.

If there are any ladies out there, don't take this the wrong way. MY daughters don't understand things that are mechanical or electrical, and probably really don't understand things that are both. Maybe that really reflects on me as a parent, but somehow, they are just not interested, even though I've tried.

So, I was originally pumped about making them some Speedsters. Those look like really nice speakers, and they are fairly small. Those would be nice for a dorm room. But the one thing that I'm a little bit concerned about there is power handling. I don't really want to be getting that call that they've blown a woofer or a tweeter, and the tweets on those on those Speedsters aren't exactly cheap. I guess that I haven't totally ruled out Speedsters at this point, but someone is going to have to convince me that I can pretty reliably keep these drivers from having issues. The receivers that they will be driving these with are rated at 80W/chan at 8ohms, so that's the kind of power they could see. Well, I hope not, but they could. I've thought about fusing them, and I haven't ruled that out as an option either.

So, I started looking for alternatives. Something that might have a little more load capabilities, OR have drivers that were a little more reasonable if something catastrophic did happen. My attention turned to TriTrix's. Even though, it's a little bit bigger cab, I would probably use the ported version, so that they could get a little more bass out of them.

But, one of the things that I'm really concerned about is how I get grills on there with the lack of space on the front of TriTrix's for grills, since the front baffle is so narrow. Both of my girls are getting close to college age, and I envision them taking these systems with them to college. Having exposed drivers out there sounds like a recipe for disaster. They are very fun to touch, you know.

The unfortunate thing about Speedsters is that they don't really lend themselves well to grills either, because the mids are surface mounted, so that's really another issue that I'm faced with there.

So, I'm thinking about installing grills on TriTrix's, which I know and realize is not the most ideal situation.

Here are the ideas that I've kind of worked up so far (I could NOT get any decent images out of CAD this evening, so I gave up, but hopefully, you get the idea). It's really hard to tell from these images, but the grills would be about 1/2" thick, and have 45deg chamfers around all edges.

Option 1: full length grill



Option 2: rounded off grills, just above the drivers top and bottom



Option 3: a hybrid version of both



Has anyone out there done any grills for TriTrixs, and if so, any ideas that might help me along the way? Is this a totally bad idea?, and I need to be looking for some other design which lends itself a little bit better to grills? I really think that grills for me a necessity at this point.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

Actually, I just realized that I was looking at the wrong price for the Speedsters, and I think that's a little bit rich for dear old dad.

While I might not mind building a set of those for myself, I'm not sure that they are the best speaker for first time owners, who didn't build the speakers themselves, if you catch my drift...

CADman_ks

[AdelaaR]

Statement monitors with grills?

No seriously ... I'm just back from my garage making my front baffles and so I know how much time and concentration goes into making speakers by now.
I would not advise to give selfmade speakers to youngsters in dormrooms. The chances of the speakers dying in the process are huge if not bigger even.
Youngsters in dormrooms should have crappy second hand speakers and then they can move up from there ... I know I did

[john trials]

I made Tritrix TL speakers and added grills to the front, and also to cover the terminus of the transmission line. I used Parts Express grill guides (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-367) and had no problems. I used 1/2" MDF for frames (spray painted flat black, then covered with PE grill cloth using 3M 77 adhesive spray).

[rdrowley]

I just used the PE pre made magnetic grills and implanted magnets on the speakers.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37387&highlight=tritrix

In order to do this I had to widen the baffle a bit (shhhh don't tell anyone that, and don't tell anyone that I couldn't tell a difference). I really like them that way though, the kids stay away from the speakers with them on.

[CADman_ks]

I just used the PE pre made magnetic grills and implanted magnets on the speakers.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37387&highlight=tritrix

In order to do this I had to widen the baffle a bit (shhhh don't tell anyone that, and don't tell anyone that I couldn't tell a difference). I really like them that way though, the kids stay away from the speakers with them on.

:E DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! :E We have a violation of BSC in sector 4! :rofl:

Seriously, I'm glad to hear this. Increasing the front baffle slightly to allow for a little more grill on there, was actually something that I was thinking about doing.

At this point, I think that I will opt for the snap grill connectors from PE. I have some already, and the one nice thing about them is that they are a lot more "permanent" than magnets would be, I would think. That way, prying minds aren't trying to take them off to see what's under there.

If you're not worried about the intergalactic police catching up with you, and you care to share, how much wider did you make your baffles? For the record, it will just be between you and me.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I made Tritrix TL speakers and added grills to the front, and also to cover the terminus of the transmission line. I used Parts Express grill guides (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-367) and had no problems. I used 1/2" MDF for frames (spray painted flat black, then covered with PE grill cloth using 3M 77 adhesive spray).

John,

Thanks for the input!

The one thing that you have going for you though, is that you built TL's, and that baffle is 1" wider than the sealed or ported. Space is at a little bit of a premium there on the sealed or ported.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

....

I would not advise to give selfmade speakers to youngsters in dormrooms. The chances of the speakers dying in the process are huge if not bigger even.
...

LOL!!!

Actually, I have a little bit of faith in my girls, but probably not as much faith in the people that they will meet there. Those are the people that I'm worried about.

That's one of the reasons that I'm interested in a "cheaper" build. If I build them cheaper speakers, I don't have to feel quite as bad when a woofer or tweeter is blown, and it won't cost THEM an arm or a leg to get it repaired.

...
Youngsters in dormrooms should have crappy second hand speakers and then they can move up from there ... I know I did

Well, for me, at this point, the only "crappy" speakers that I have are a set of Klipsch KG-2s in the house. They are not going to get those. While they may not be the best speakers on the planet, they are not all that crappy either, and they do make sound.

So, I don't even have any speakers to hand down to them, and the thought of buying one of those $100 "sets" from BestBuy doesn't really appeal to me either. So, I'm stuck.

CADman_ks

[rdrowley]

:E DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! :E We have a violation of BSC in sector 4! :rofl:

Seriously, I'm glad to hear this. Increasing the front baffle slightly to allow for a little more grill on there, was actually something that I was thinking about doing.

At this point, I think that I will opt for the snap grill connectors from PE. I have some already, and the one nice thing about them is that they are a lot more "permanent" than magnets would be, I would think. That way, prying minds aren't trying to take them off to see what's under there.

If you're not worried about the intergalactic police catching up with you, and you care to share, how much wider did you make your baffles? For the record, it will just be between you and me.

CADman_ks

I talk about it in that post I linked to, but for quick reference they are 8 in wide as opposed to the recommended 7.5.

You'd better keep this under wraps though, we may both be banned from the community for this kind of BSC desecration.

[---k---]

I seriously would build the Ochocincos. When I built them, they were the same price as the TriTrix, but with better drivers and designed for cheap receivers. Since they received a great reception at DIY Chicago, I have no problems pimping them all day long. :T

The Ocho baffle is wide enough that you'll have plenty of space to put a grill on it. And, if you're really lazy, you could just buy the pre-made grill from PE since the Ocho box matched the PE pre-made boxes.

Grills will cause a little diffraction issue, but these aren't that optimized, and it is a level of perfectionism. With your goals, I'm not worried in the least.

Mine are sealed, but as stated in the thread, you can do ported like the Aviatrix.

[cjd]

10% is usually the recommended limit.

Magnets don't come off that easily but also don't break when the speaker is dropped. If you mount the baffle with socket head screws you can probably line up grill magnets with the screw heads.

[CADman_ks]

10% is usually the recommended limit.

...

GREAT information! I do remember reading that now elsewhere on the forum, but I had forgotten that. Even if I stay with TriTrix, that would net me another 5/8" of an inch, and that would help out a LOT.

...

Magnets don't come off that easily but also don't break when the speaker is dropped. If you mount the baffle with socket head screws you can probably line up grill magnets with the screw heads.

:E:E:E:E There had better NOT be any speaker dropping!!! But you do bring up a good point, and that's something that I should probably consider. What would even be better, would be if I could come up with a way to fasten the grills "permanently" that didn't look tacky. Then, little hands, or big hands for that matter, couldn't get in there without removing the "bolts" that I had on there holding them on.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I seriously would build the Ochocincos. When I built them, they were the same price as the TriTrix, but with better drivers and designed for cheap receivers. Since they received a great reception at DIY Chicago, I have no problems pimping them all day long. :T

The Ocho baffle is wide enough that you'll have plenty of space to put a grill on it. And, if you're really lazy, you could just buy the pre-made grill from PE since the Ocho box matched the PE pre-made boxes.
...

Thanks for the input!

I'll have to look into those as an option...

Just what I need. More options.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

Another idea...

Looked into the Ocho's a little bit tonite, and as near as I can tell, it may cost a little bit more to build them than TriTrix's, but the drivers are probably nicer, so that's definitely something to consider.

But I saw some Overnight Sensation MTMs on Paul Carmody's site, and I really like the way that these speakers look. But, I'm not necessarily into the curved sides, as much as I like the black part where the drivers are housed: (I'd like to insert a pic here of this guys final work, but I don't have permission, so I'm not going to do that.)

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=220137

So, I took a little bit of liberty with the design of some Ocho's, and I incorporated this feature into a set of those. It think it does two things for me, the way that I see rationalizing it:
1) It allows me to double up the front, which was noted in the build wouldn't be a bad idea, and at the end of the day, the front baffle (or the place where the drivers sit) is about the same size as it is in the conventional plan
2) It allows me to build a wider box, but a shallower box in depth (but maybe that's a bad thing). The box in the original design is 22.6L internally, and my design would be 22.4L internally, so that's a wash.

Even with this "extra" front face, I would still have room for the obligatory grills that I have to install on there.

Here's a picture of what I'm thinking:



Here's a somewhat crappy looking model of what it would look like sans grills:



and here's about an equally as crappy image of what they would might look like with grills:



Imagine all of the brown areas as wood grain of some kind, most likely oak, and the black would be textured, probably with something like the 3M truck bed liner product, which appears to look nice on the pictures I've seen.

Would I be OK doing this, or would I totally have to start over on the crossovers?

All feedback, positive or negative is greatly appreciated!

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I forgot to add that one thing that I really like about the Ocho's is that they should have a lot more load carrying capability, when compared to the TriTrix's. In the case where these are going to be used, I think that the a more robust design when it comes to a load is probably worth a little bit of coin up front to try and stave off problems in the future.

With all of that being said, I still could put fuses in the things so that I didn't have issues later on with blown drivers. That would be true of either design...

CADman_ks

[AdelaaR]

Youngsters like loud bass.
My 20-year old sister came over and I let her listen to my new F4's.
First thing she said was that her (crappy big store) speakers had louder bass.

[CADman_ks]

Youngsters like loud bass.
My 20-year old sister came over and I let her listen to my new F4's.
First thing she said was that her (crappy big store) speakers had louder bass.

LOL!! That's one of the reasons that I was thinking about building the ported versions of the TriTrix's for. While they may not be as loud, the bass should extend down a little bit deeper, and make it feel like there's more bass there...

CADman_ks

[---k---]

Would I be OK doing this, or would I totally have to start over on the crossovers?

All feedback, positive or negative is greatly appreciated!

CADman_ks

The black color is hard for me to see and I haven't got original dimension next to your proposed dimension. But, while it may not be theoretically correct, I think you're close enough. We're probably nit-picking. And, EVERY design is going to be slightly affected by the grill cloth, grill edge, etc. Go put a piece(s) of scrap wood along the edge of your current speakers and see how much it changes things and if you can hear it.

A couple of things I need to note, the Ocho's aren't the most sensitive speaker. I think they are like 85db or something. We didn't have any problem getting them party loud in my brothers basement with a $300 Onkyo receiver. I generally think high sensitivity designs have benefits, but the benefits/requirements that a few on the internet talk about is way overblown. Summary, just make sure you have reasonable power and not a $50 25W chip amp.

Second, mine where sealed. CJD and I were both fairly impressed with the strong bass in the sealed configuration. F3 = 63 hz. But the first post does describe building them ported using the same box configuration as the AviaTrix. That is an option if you want more bass extension.

[---k---]

LOL!! That's one of the reasons that I was thinking about building the ported versions of the TriTrix's for. While they may not be as loud, the bass should extend down a little bit deeper, and make it feel like there's more bass there...

CADman_ks

There is a difference between bass extension and bloated bass from crappy speakers. I think she would still be disappointed by the ported design.

If you notice in all of our response graphs, the bass rolls off slowly and gently. Many of the fun commercial speakers that have monster bass actually have a big hump in the response. Further, the bass that people like as 'fun' bass is more in the 50hz to 80hz range. This is just a matter of changing the box design. Take a ported box and make it smaller and tune it higher to get a rise. It will make that fun sound. But, you'll get a lot less extension too. Trade-offs.

Best is to build the speakers correctly, then add a sub crossing at 100hz and just adjust the sub volume to to add the amount of fun bass you want.

[CADman_ks]

The black color is hard for me to see and I haven't got original dimension next to your proposed dimension. But, while it may not be theoretically correct, I think you're close enough. We're probably nit-picking. And, EVERY design is going to be slightly affected by the grill cloth, grill edge, etc. Go put a piece(s) of scrap wood along the edge of your current speakers and see how much it changes things and if you can hear it.

...

---k---,

Thanks as always for the input!

I know that it's hard to see from these illustrations. I couldn't find any happy medium for showing what they look like. Sorry about that.

I'll put the pieces of wood mimicking grills on my current speakers, and see if I can tell that much of a difference. That might be a little bit hard to tell as well, since they are hanging on the wall, and the sweet spot for them is a ways away from each speaker. Will give me an idea though.

As for dimensions, that "new" front baffle for me, the one that's put on there in addition to the front baffle, is 8" X 18". The original design called for 8" x 20", so I'm about the same there. The box, on the other hand, is 9 1/2" wide by 19 1/2" tall. I theorized (and I have no idea what I'm talking about here), that by having the front baffle stick out, and be the same width as the original, it's like having a 1 1/2" chamfer on the front baffle, which should hopefully mean that I shouldn't get too much diffraction. But, like you said, I've kind of got a whole other problem with having the grills on there, which are a requirement for the environment they are going to be used in.

... A couple of things I need to note, the Ocho's aren't the most sensitive speaker. I think they are like 85db or something. We didn't have any problem getting them party loud in my brothers basement with a $300 Onkyo receiver. I generally think high sensitivity designs have benefits, but the benefits/requirements that a few on the internet talk about is way overblown. Summary, just make sure you have reasonable power and not a $50 25W chip amp. ...

Going loud isn't all it's really cracked up to be either, and I'm pretty confident that these speakers, and just about any speaker for that matter, will go loud enough to get you trouble, especially when you live in a confined space like and apartment or dorm (been there, done that). The only REAL advantage to having super sensitive speakers that get super loud is if you get into a stereo war with your dorm buddies, but I wouldn't personally know anything about that, or how that might even work.

They will be driving these with Pioneer VSX-821-K's. Maybe not the best thing out there, but definitely should have some power to drive these.

... Second, mine where sealed. CJD and I were both fairly impressed with the strong bass in the sealed configuration. F3 = 63 hz. But the first post does describe building them ported using the same box configuration as the AviaTrix. That is an option if you want more bass extension. ...

The thing about venting these drivers, though, is that they have to have a pretty big box, from what Curt says, and he makes it sound on the AviaTrix page that the ONLY way they will work is as a MLTL. That just makes too big of a box for a dorm room, I think, so I'm stuck with sealed, and at the end of the day, that's not a deal breaker.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

...

Best is to build the speakers correctly, then add a sub crossing at 100hz and just adjust the sub volume to to add the amount of fun bass you want.

That's exactly what I'm thinking as well. This way, they have some speakers to listen to the system with, and IF we find that we need MORE bass, we can always build a smaller sub to fill that in.

Remember, I'm trying to build this system as something that we can build on later.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

....

Best is to build the speakers correctly, ...

This quote got me to thinking about my plan, and a way to execute that while minimizing my risk.

Because I'm not in a super big hurry to get these completed, I think that I'm going to do a little testing of my "theory" before I go cutting up a whole bunch of MDF.

I'm going to get some 3/4 plywood from the lumber yard, something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but it probably won't be the ideal substrate for speaker building, but should work. Then, I'm going to build the original Ocho cabs as designed, and my cabs, and see if I can tell any difference in the way they sound. I realize that the material that I'll be building these out of, is not really the ideal, but for my comparison, it should be OK, because I'll be comparing like construction to like construction, so if the cabs are vibrating, or there are voids in the ply, both will have voids. That would also allow me to do some A vs. B testing.

Then, if I can't tell that much difference, if any at all, with my proposed design, I'll go out and get some MDF, and build (4) final cabinets, and get them done the way that I want.

Doing this also allows me to learn a little bit more about how all of this works together. I've taken all of the designs at face value, and since I haven't experimented with any differences, I don't know really what the differences would do to the sound. This should be a great way to get some eduction if nothing else...

CADman_ks

[cjd]

Your approach will work fine. The drivers will mostly "see" just the front, narrower part and all will be happy and as expected in baffle step/diffraction world. Well within reasonable tolerance. Build and enjoy.

[CADman_ks]

Your approach will work fine. The drivers will mostly "see" just the front, narrower part and all will be happy and as expected in baffle step/diffraction world. Well within reasonable tolerance. ...

That's what my thinking was as well. It sure sounds in good in theory anyway. I read about a lot of this stuff, and then I try to make it all make sense. Sometimes, though, I'm not always for sure where I'm crossing the line doing the wrong thing, and when I'm actually "getting" it. Thanks! for the affirmation!

... Build and enjoy.

Get some drivers and XO parts ordered, and it's game ON!!!

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I didn't have anything better to do today (well, maybe I could have found something), so I decided that maybe I should download and learn Google Sketchup.

I used it to draw up my idea for my revisions to the Ocho's. Actually, Sketchup is not really all that hard to use, but at the end of the day, it's pretty simple in what it executes. And, doing more "complex" things is a whole order of magnitude harder than what I'm used to with work 3D modeling system. Simple things like adding fillets and chamfers is really a labor of love, and if you want it to all come out smooth and lined up, you have to be pretty much a stud with descriptive geometry, and know how to use that. Thank goodness that I had that class in college, and I was actually able to understand it, and still apply it.

But, one thing that Sketchup does very well is it lets you paint things more like a typical paint program, and that's a big plus over even some of the higher end modeling packages.

Here's the image that I ended up with out of Sketchup, and maybe it's easier to see what they are going to look like. The only thing that will be deviated from what you see here is that there will be a round over on the part that looks like it might be granite. I'm planning on using some texture paint there, and there will most likely NOT be that much white in it, but it could actually be that grey. I don't know that yet.

[cjd]

I hate Sketchup. It has to be the worst 3d modeling tool I have ever used.

Unfortunately, the good 3d tools I've used aren't so good at the CAD end of things, nor are they cheap.

Anyhow, looks sharp.

[CADman_ks]

I hate Sketchup. It has to be the worst 3d modeling tool I have ever used.

...

I use Pro/Engineer daily for solid modeling, and we can argue until the cows come home about Pro/E vs. other solid modelers, but I'm a huge fan of Pro/E. It does the drawing part very well too, and again that's a matter of opinion. But, what TRUE solid modeling brings to the table is parametrics. That is the one thing that I could never get used to when using Sketchup. I want to be able to control what dimension I put in there, and I want to be able to control that dimension in the future to make it something different, regenerate the model, and have something completely different. That's the difference, but then again, Sketchup is free. What can you expect for free?

But, I think for quick and dirty, and if you're someone with no experience, it's not that bad of a tool. You could definitely use it to get a feel for what something might look like, especially if you're a person who has a hard time visualizing things. And there are people out there that just can't visualize how something might look when they look at it on paper. They either have to see it "live" or they have to see a model that they can spin around to different views. I work with people who fall in the non-visualization category all day long, and that's quite all right.

...

Unfortunately, the good 3d tools I've used aren't so good at the CAD end of things, nor are they cheap.

...

And oh yes, Pro/E is NOT cheap, but thank goodness I'm not paying the bill.

...

Anyhow, looks sharp.

Thanks for the cudos. I like the look. When I saw the ones that I patterned this off of, I knew immediately that what I wanted to try to do.

We'll see how the execution part goes. That could end up being a completely different matter all together.

CADman_ks

[---k---]

I didn't have anything better to do today

Could have been cutting wood??? :W

I should have been....

[cjd]

I should probably mention at this point... best tool I've used is old now, but Alias Wavefront. And Maya a very very close second.

I used Autocad Light waaaaay back in the day, and even that is less frustrating than Sketchup. With GS I can NOT get a consistent point of reference for *anything* which suggests I'm missing something.

Your grills could be U-bent steel at the top and bottom (insert into holes in the baffle,) with the cloth stretched between, which would completely eliminate the worst of the diffraction. I bet you could get some nice 3/16" or ¼" steel bent up perfectly for the job...

[CADman_ks]

Could have been cutting wood??? :W

....

Touche'...

Drivers are on back order until mid May!! I probably have a little bit of time...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I should probably mention at this point... best tool I've used is old now, but Alias Wavefront. And Maya a very very close second.

...

So there are SO many 3D tools out there anymore. I've never even heard of Alias Wavefront. I have heard of Maya, but have never personally used it.

...

I used Autocad Light waaaaay back in the day, and even that is less frustrating than Sketchup. With GS I can NOT get a consistent point of reference for *anything* which suggests I'm missing something.

...

I might be dating myself here, but I AutoCAD was the first CAD package that I learned, and that was on version 2.5. That's a long time ago. We didn't keep it very long and moved onto something called VersaCAD (no longer in business) My first 2D love is STILL AutoCAD to this day, and it's why I use at work when I have to do 2D work. I love it for 2D work.

... With GS I can NOT get a consistent point of reference for *anything* which suggests I'm missing something.

...

You should be able to "snap" to end points, and use those as "anchors" and get things to be very precise. While I didn't really have a problem with that, getting a line that is EXACTLY 10" long is another matter.

...

Your grills could be U-bent steel at the top and bottom (insert into holes in the baffle,) with the cloth stretched between, which would completely eliminate the worst of the diffraction. I bet you could get some nice 3/16" or ¼" steel bent up perfectly for the job...

I've been toying with this idea, and actually thought about doing that on my Stentorians. I hadn't though of doing it the way that you're describing here. How does the cloth keep from stretching and getting narrower in the middle? The other thing that I don't like about this is that it wouldn't totally "hide" the drivers. I'm kind of wanting the drivers to be out of sight out of mind.

I'm going to have think some more about this...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

...

Your grills could be U-bent steel at the top and bottom (insert into holes in the baffle,) ...

The other thing that I forgot to mention about this is that I have a weakness or sickness for metal, and really, any excuse to use metal is a win-win situation.

I started with wood many moons ago, and I really like wood, and I have most of the tools required to be a fair woodworker. I dabbled in steel over the years, using friends equipment, but I never really did understand it, and it seemed to rigid and unforgiving.

But over the years, and having jobs in manufacturing using aluminum and steel, I've really grown to love working with steel. And for the most part, close counts, if there's any welding involved. You can cover a LOT of sins with a welder. You can also put together some amazing things with a welder.

But, for that ultimate precision, with the right tools, whatever that might be, you can dial steel down to the gnat's behind. Granted, I do NOT have all of these tools, but I do have access to them, and access in some cases is as good as owning them.

I've actually been toying with the idea of making some metal speaker boxes. I think that they would be cool. Everything you read about it says that it's probably a bad idea, because of the resonance of the steel. I think that problem can be overcome by adding ribs that go from top to bottom, making the side panels much more rigid. It would definitely look different than any speaker I've ever seen.

When I built my Stentorians, I almost dreaded having to go back and work with wood, but once I got going, I remembered why I love wood too. They definitely both have a place in my heart...

[cjd]

There are ways. You could fabricate stringers with thin music wire, just tack the corners. Or ... Lots of possibilities.

Metal is one of my favorites. Glass is awesome too. Steel isn't at the top of my list - I'll take silver as tops, I think.

I'm trying to do some surface finishing on steel right now and I'm just hating it. Forgot to wear a respirator for part of it today too, bad stuff.

Still need a place to put the anvil I got for Christmas. :B