New HT speakers... B&W 805S/XT4?? (Pictures)

**sikoniko** · 11 April 2006, 06:31 Tuesday

Ive never heard of those monoblocks. where did you find them?

**DrJRapp** · 11 April 2006, 06:33 Tuesday

The XT4 is one of B&W's so called "lifestyle" speakers and as such has many compromises for the sake of looks. Many have compared it in sq to a 703, but never an 800 series. I'm an XT4 owner and I use it for a dedicated 2 channel setup in my study/library. It's greatest strength is it's looks and build quality.

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 07:00 Tuesday

Originally posted by sikoniko

Ive never heard of those monoblocks. where did you find them?

The blocks are all new, highly rated in forums in Norway, but not as well known in other countries... some digital amps from other brands use the same ICE-moduls.

Midgardaudio.no -

http://www.midgardaudio.no

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 07:04 Tuesday

Originally posted by DrJRapp

The XT4 is one of B&W's so called "lifestyle" speakers and as such has many compromises for the sake of looks. Many have compared it in sq to a 703, but never an 800 series. I'm an XT4 owner and I use it for a dedicated 2 channel setup in my study/library. It's greatest strength is it's looks and build quality.

So is it fair too say in therms of sound quality, they are just as good as the 700-series? The XT4 looks very nice... In design the probably are the "most" perfect for my room.

Today I`m using a Tannoy Arena 5.1 speaker system.

Do u have any experience with the 800-series compared too the XT4? Is the difference very clear?

**DrJRapp** · 11 April 2006, 07:07 Tuesday

I think that that is a valid comparison. However, they tend to be more power hungry than the 700 series. I power mine with NuForce Ref9s which seem to be a near perfect match.

I've listened to the XT4 and an 804s inthe same demo room. The 804 was a tad fuller and smoother IMHO.

**Aussie Geoff** · 11 April 2006, 07:26 Tuesday

Haakon,

I would highly recommend the 804S and 805S combination if you can afford the cost and get the 804S at a good price. As covered by others - the 805 and 804 are both superior in sound to the XT series - which is more like a stylish, slightly bass limited version of the 700 series (still very good though but more suited to environments where style is extremely important). I think you will appreciate the difference. Especially if you can get the matching HTM3S centre and a nice sub... The 804S and HTM3S have the FST midrange which is quite superior in sound than the 2 way 805S. Also - by the time you get the essential stands for the 805S the 804S (US prices) are quite close... Lastly the 804S for pure stereo (ie no subwoofer) will do a better job...

Geoff

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 07:31 Tuesday

Originally posted by DrJRapp

I think that that is a valid comparison. However, they tend to be more power hungry than the 700 series. I power mine with NuForce Ref9s which seem to be a near perfect match.

I've listened to the XT4 and an 804s inthe same demo room. The 804 was a tad fuller and smoother IMHO.

I have enough power, thats the least of my problems...

I guess I just gotta compare them for myself at a store. Thanks for your reply..

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 07:42 Tuesday

Originally posted by Aussie Geoff

Haakon,

I would highly recommend the 804S and 805S combination if you can afford the cost and get the 804S at a good price. As covered by others - the 805 and 804 are both superior in sound to the XT series - which is more like a stylish, slightly bass limited version of the 700 series (still very good though but more suited to environments where style is extremely important). I think you will appreciate the difference. Especially if you can get the matching HTM3S centre and a nice sub... The 804S and HTM3S have the FST midrange which is quite superior in sound than the 2 way 805S. Also - by the time you get the essential stands for the 805S the 804S (US prices) are quite close... Lastly the 804S for pure stereo (ie no subwoofer) will do a better job...

Geoff

Thanks.

Well... The only thing bothering me about the 804S with the HTM3S is the size (style/design is quite important). At the same time I`m worried they will not be perfect in a room of only 25sqm, and probably more happy in a bigger rom....

For the 8055S stands, I dont need too use the over-priced B&W-stand, do I?

As far as bass goes, im gonna use a good subwoofer anyway. And I dont need so much bass as I live in a appartment and for one strange reason the neighbours dont like bass... :huh:

**Aussie Geoff** · 11 April 2006, 08:50 Tuesday

Haakon,

25 SQM is quite big (5m x 5m or 4m x 6m anf the 804S will be fine in that space...)

An option for your rears (fronts at well if you have to!) is the SCMS which are special versions of the 805S made for wall mounting. These arguably sound as good (99%) as the 805S and are less intrusive on the room...

Geoff

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 09:24 Tuesday

Originally posted by Aussie Geoff

Haakon,

25 SQM is quite big (5m x 5m or 4m x 6m anf the 804S will be fine in that space...)

An option for your rears (fronts at well if you have to!) is the SCMS which are special versions of the 805S made for wall mounting. These arguably sound as good (99%) as the 805S and are less intrusive on the room...

Geoff

Great... A couple of SCMS might do better in the side-back. Cheaper also.

My room is about 4m wide X 6m length. I want the 804S IF they sound better, but I think they will look too big in my room, specially the center HTM3S who is HUGE and also twice as expensive as the HTM4S (who is the perfect match for 805S).

Guess I have some listening too do...

**Kobus** · 11 April 2006, 10:23 Tuesday

My dedicated room is +- 4m x 6.5m and my 803's fits perfectly in terms of sound and looks.

And I also have the htm3 centre which fits perfectly.

Kobus

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 12:00 Tuesday

Originally posted by Kobus

My dedicated room is +- 4m x 6.5m and my 803's fits perfectly in terms of sound and looks.

And I also have the htm3 centre which fits perfectly.

Kobus

I see.... Should be no reason for my consern about the 804S then, at least when it comes too sound.

Would be nice too hear some experiences about the 805S also....?

**Boone38** · 11 April 2006, 14:32 Tuesday

I had the 805s in about the same size room you have. I was using the Velodyne sub as well. It sounded great. I sold the 805s and now have the 804s. There is a tremendous differnence in the mids. That size room and the 804s are a great match. I have mine powered by the Rotel 1075. My only next upgrade will be more power.

Good luck

**Haakon** · 11 April 2006, 14:52 Tuesday

Originally posted by Boone38

I had the 805s in about the same size room you have. I was using the Velodyne sub as well. It sounded great. I sold the 805s and now have the 804s. There is a tremendous differnence in the mids. That size room and the 804s are a great match. I have mine powered by the Rotel 1075. My only next upgrade will be more power.

Good luck

Seemes like I can`t rule out the 804S`s then, since so many recommend them.... I might go for them if I can get them at the price I hope for.

Thanks for your input..

**DrJRapp** · 11 April 2006, 17:04 Tuesday

I'm listening to 2 channel on the XT4s in a room that is about 4.5 x 4.5m. Bass id plenty strong so I don't use a sub. When I first heard them in a demo room, I went looking for the hidden sub. The Xt4s have two tuning plugs so you can tune the speaker for either low end excursion or punch. I have mine with one plug in which makes them seem just right.

**Haakon** · 12 April 2006, 03:42 Wednesday

I will have a listen too the XT4`s also, but after all I have heard I am pretty sure I will like 805S more.... just a guess. The XT4 have exellent design, so if the sound is good enough for me, they will go home with me.... :driver:

**Karma** · 12 April 2006, 08:40 Wednesday

HI Haakon,
I can't speak about the XT4's since "life style" speakers are not my cup of tea. I have 805S's in front with a HTM4S in the center and the SCMS's for surrounds. In other words, mine is an entirely 805S based system.

For my tastes, the 805S's alone do not produce enough bass to be satisfying for either music or HT. When I selected the 805S's as the basis for my system, I fully planned for subwoofers right from the beginning. I selected dual ASW800 subs. The ASW825 is the current updated ASW800. I operate all the speakers full range except, of course, the subs.

I am experimenting using the foam phase plugs in the reflex ports to see how they work with the 805/subwoofer integration. These give the 805's something like an acoustic suspension alignment (as opposed to bass reflex) but reduces the low bass extension. This must be compensated by raising the sub crossover frequency slightly. So far, the results sound promising.

So the system can be viewed as a three way system with crossover frequencies different than, say, the 804. I view this as an advantage in that it moves the low crossover frequency well down into the bass (45Hz or maybe slightly higher) and out of the sensitive midrange frequencies.

INHO, this combo is better than the 804. I know some will disagree. They like the midrange of the 804's better. OK, that's fine. But I maintain they are locking onto midrange non-linearities caused by the midrange to woofer crossover which adds a certain warmth (exageration?) to the lower midrange. All B&W 800 series floorstanders are tuned to 350Hz for the mid to woofer crossover. I hold that my 805S system has more accurate midrange and MUCH better bass. A down side is the cost.

I think B&W has done a good job of hiding the crossover transition and making it pleasant to listen to in their floorstanders. That does not mean it is accurate, however. At the 802 performance level is where I hear the other 800 series speakers exceed the 805S combo midrange performance. But 805S combo still exceeds with it's bass performance.

I think the 805S with good, compatible subs, is a fantastic combination fully qualified to be called High End. The only lack is ultimate dynamic range which could be an issue with your rather large room. 804's will not solve that problem. Only with the 800, 801, 802 or 803 models will you get significantly greater dynamic range. That translates to big dollars. Actually, unless you demand ungodly high volume levels, I think the 805S's will work well in your room. You will need a capable amp.

BTW, I have the 805 dedicated stands. I think B&W is getting a bad rap with these stands with folks calling them over priced. True, they are expensive. But they are excellent and fully compatible with the 805's. I don't think they are over priced. It's a truism that excellent stands are expensive.

Sparky

**Kal Rubinson** · 12 April 2006, 09:16 Wednesday

Originally posted by Karma

All B&W 800 series floorstanders are tuned to 350Hz for the mid to woofer crossover.

Except the 803s at 250Hz, unless that's a typo in my B&W book.

Kal

**NonSense** · 12 April 2006, 09:23 Wednesday

Haakon

If you like the XT4's, you should have a look at Canton. A reputable German Manufacturer (like B&W) that has been around for more than 30 years. Their two high end series of speakers have an optional finish that some would call the lifestyle look. The nice thing about Canton is that this lifestyle look is carried into their flagship models. Worth a look and listen if that is what you are really looking for.

**Karma** · 12 April 2006, 10:23 Wednesday

Originally posted by Kal Rubinson

Except the 803s at 250Hz, unless that's a typo in my B&W book.

Kal

HI Kal,
I just came off the B&W site and all of the 800 series speakers except the 805S have a listed mid to woofer crossover frequency of 350Hz. I don't know where the typo is but something is out of step.

Thanks for reading so carefully.

Sparky

**Nolan B** · 12 April 2006, 10:53 Wednesday

My dealer has a full 5.1 setupe with vienna accustics which I have heard powered by classe and rotel. Those speakers and B&W FPMs are considered to be the best on wall speakers you can get. I have compared them both to the XT4s and felt that as previously mentioned the XT4s are power hungry and in my opinion dont sound as good as vienna accustics at lower to moderate listening levels.

They sound great when properly powerd, you wont be dissapointed, and in my onion you need to spend a lot more in order to get to the next level.

**Haakon** · 12 April 2006, 11:11 Wednesday

Karma: Thanks for your great input. Really helping me choose here. 2 805S, HTM4S and 2 SCMS at the back would look very nice. Im not sure about the sub yet, but the 825 might be the best alternative sound-wise... Im also checking out the Velodyne DD10 with the integrated EQ, even the B&W PV1 has crossed my mind, with its nice design, digital amp and good build quality. Not sure how they will integrate with the 800-series, doh...

I will have a listen too both the 805S and the 804S. If the diffence is small/non important, I will choose the 805S with stands. If I can get the 804S at the same price as 805S w/stands, I will still need the twice as expensive super-large center HTM3S, and that will not look nice under my plasma.

I know the stands are good and perfect match for the 805S, but I have also looked at stands half the price, looking better in all aluminium.

NonSense: Thanks, I`ve heard only good things about Canton. But the Karat series design are just soo deep. Im also conserned about how easy they are too place in the room, with their side-mounted woofer.

**Haakon** · 12 April 2006, 11:15 Wednesday

Originally posted by Vancouver

My dealer has a full 5.1 setupe with vienna accustics which I have heard powered by classe and rotel. Those speakers and B&W FPMs are considered to be the best on wall speakers you can get. I have compared them both to the XT4s and felt that as previously mentioned the XT4s are power hungry and in my opinion dont sound as good as vienna accustics at lower to moderate listening levels.

They sound great when properly powerd, you wont be dissapointed, and in my onion you need to spend a lot more in order to get to the next level.

I really dont have a wall too put the Vienna`s on, its only windows behind the speakers, I`m guessien they might not like that. They are about same price as 805 without the stands, so I will have a listen too them anyway.

**NonSense** · 12 April 2006, 15:21 Wednesday

Haakon

The entry level of the Karat is quite compact, but the Vento series from Canton is more similar to the B&W 800 Series footprint. The siver finish looks outstanding.

**Haakon** · 13 April 2006, 04:21 Thursday

Originally posted by NonSense

Haakon

The entry level of the Karat is quite compact, but the Vento series from Canton is more similar to the B&W 800 Series footprint. The siver finish looks outstanding.

Thanks for the advice, ive been checking out the Vento series now, and it seemes like the correct price range. Also they have exellent reviews in several magasines like Stereophile.... Guess they are worth a look.

**alpina** · 19 April 2006, 02:23 Wednesday

Originally posted by Haakon

B&W 805S
4 of these with the matching center is tempting. I know these sounds very good, but they dont go so deep... Im gonna use a sub anyway.

Wow!

Never seen the stand in blk with a rosenut bookshelf. Think I'll go blk stand with rosenut 705s. Looks awesome!

Thanks,

Julie

**Kal Rubinson** · 19 April 2006, 06:32 Wednesday

Originally posted by Haakon

4 of these with the matching center is tempting. I know these sounds very good, but they dont go so deep... Im gonna use a sub anyway.

5 of these would be even better.

Kal

**ZX10 Guy** · 19 April 2006, 07:00 Wednesday

Originally posted by Haakon

Karma: Thanks for your great input. Really helping me choose here. 2 805S, HTM4S and 2 SCMS at the back would look very nice. Im not sure about the sub yet, but the 825 might be the best alternative sound-wise... Im also checking out the Velodyne DD10 with the integrated EQ, even the B&W PV1 has crossed my mind, with its nice design, digital amp and good build quality. Not sure how they will integrate with the 800-series, doh...

I will have a listen too both the 805S and the 804S. If the diffence is small/non important, I will choose the 805S with stands. If I can get the 804S at the same price as 805S w/stands, I will still need the twice as expensive super-large center HTM3S, and that will not look nice under my plasma.

I know the stands are good and perfect match for the 805S, but I have also looked at stands half the price, looking better in all aluminium.

NonSense: Thanks, I`ve heard only good things about Canton. But the Karat series design are just soo deep. Im also conserned about how easy they are too place in the room, with their side-mounted woofer.

I don't know about the HTM3S not looking nice under a plasma.

**Karma** · 19 April 2006, 10:18 Wednesday

HI ZX,
The center speaker looks great in your setup. I would have a hard time emulating you because my plasma is stand mounted. I have my center mounted over the top of the plasma and tilted down.

I have question for you. Looking at your pictures it is striking that there is no room treatment showing. Does your room sound overly bright? If it does perhaps your room acoustics need some attention. Just wondering.

Sparky

**Boone38** · 19 April 2006, 12:21 Wednesday

Looks nice on the set up. I have the HTM4S with the 804S and it sounds great. I did not like the HTM3n are it was too big as well. My question is why two subs? And it looks as if they are different sizes? One for HT and one for 2 channel?

I am looking for a sub to go with my 804S. I was looking at the DD12 and can get one for about 1800.00. What is the brand and size you are using?

Thanks

**Kal Rubinson** · 19 April 2006, 13:53 Wednesday

Originally posted by Karma

I have question for you. Looking at your pictures it is striking that there is no room treatment showing. Does your room sound overly bright? If it does perhaps your room acoustics need some attention. Just wondering.

Me, too. Looks kinda stark.

Kal

**alpina** · 19 April 2006, 16:06 Wednesday

i think the room looks awesome. love that minimalistic, clinical look. hope to achieve something similar ourselves though our floors are polished concrete.

cheers,

julie

**Karma** · 19 April 2006, 16:30 Wednesday

HI Julie,
For more reasons than I can go into here, the minimalist, clean look as shown in the photos above is usually the kiss of death for great sound. Reflections abound, high frequencies are very prominent and out of balance, and because of the uncontrolled reflections, image focus and precision soundstaging is difficult if not impossible to attain.

Speakers will not do well in this kind of sonic environment no matter how much it appeals to your sense of aesthetics or how expensive the speakers.

If your priorities are such that a sparse listening room is the most important thing then save your money. You might as well buy a less expensive system because the expensive ones will not perform to their best.

Sorry for the bad news.

Sparky

**Kal Rubinson** · 19 April 2006, 17:26 Wednesday

Originally posted by Karma

HI Julie,
For more reasons than I can go into here, the minimalist, clean look as shown in the photos above is usually the kiss of death for great sound. Reflections abound, high frequencies are very prominent and out of balance, and because of the uncontrolled reflections, image focus and precision soundstaging is difficult if not impossible to attain.

Speakers will not do well in this kind of sonic environment no matter how much it appeals to your sense of aesthetics or how expensive the speakers.

If your priorities are such that a sparse listening room is the most important thing then save your money. You might as well buy a less expensive system because the expensive ones will not perform to their best.

Sorry for the bad news.

Sparky

Ditto. A few decades ago, my brother-in-law wanted my help in building a stereo system for their new living room in their new custom-designed house. The living room has an 18' ceiling with one long wall completely of glass. It is on this wall where the speakers were to go so that he might listen and gaze out on his domain. Another wall is stone. Only a small carpet and a sofa offered any relief from the hard surfaces. Did I tell you there was an all glass wet bar on another wall?

I gave him the same hard advice you state but he insisted on spending the money on a big system which, to this day, sounds like crap. And he knows it.

Kal

**Aussie Geoff** · 19 April 2006, 19:19 Wednesday

ZXGuy,

Ditto...

However re your set-up with only minor comrpomises in minimalisim, you could make it sound a whole lot better. I would recommend a large plain minimalist style rug in front of the system. There are available is a variety of pale off-whites and beiges. Also a couple of minimalist wall sound absorbing hanging panels for the side wals - you can get these even in white or in pale fabrics. They are 1/2 inch or so thick and placed well would look like art (you can even get prints on them but I suspect not for your room). Place these at equall distance from the front to your listening postion. These two changes would clean up the sound a lot...

Geoff

**ZX10 Guy** · 19 April 2006, 20:15 Wednesday

Yes, I agree with you all. The system is on the bright side depending on the source material. The room was just finished as part of some major rennovations that occurred on my house. The room was part of a large basement finish which included cutting out a new walkout and adding a new gas fireplace. The other part of the rennovations that happened at the same time was 2 story addition that added space off the basement to be used as either a small bedroom or an exercise room. On the first level I have an new study off the formal dining room and the sun room. I had budgeted about $84k max for the project. I'm now at around $95k and I wouldn't be surprised if I added up all the loose odds and ends that I'm really at $100k. So money is a bit tight right now. Believe me, I'm doing room treatments. I already consulted with an acoustics company about my room configuration. I already have a plan of placing acoustic panels. There will be two on the front wall (one on each side of the plasma) and 2 on each side wall. Plus I'll have two bass traps on each corner of the front room. Just have to free up some cash to get those ordered. I also plan on having a rug on the floor along with a coffee table which with my expensive tastes will take me a while to get too.

The subs at the front of the room are an HGS15II and a HGS12II. I plan on replacing the HGS12 with a DD18 which might happen soon. I know that I should get room treatments first and I'm short on cash. But if the deal that I'm thinking I might get on the DD18 is going to happen, I'd be stupid not to jump at it no matter how far I have to stretch to do it.

Oh and sorry about the blurry pictures. My digital camera isn't the greatest.

ETA: If the deal with the DD18 doesn't go through, you can count on room treatments being up on the wall in short order. Don't be surprised if I post up pics within a month or so with the room treatments mounted. And the equipment hasn't been in the room more than maybe 2 or so weeks. Still lots of tweaking that's going to happen.

**ZX10 Guy** · 19 April 2006, 20:20 Wednesday

Originally posted by Boone38

Looks nice on the set up. I have the HTM4S with the 804S and it sounds great. I did not like the HTM3n are it was too big as well. My question is why two subs? And it looks as if they are different sizes? One for HT and one for 2 channel?

I am looking for a sub to go with my 804S. I was looking at the DD12 and can get one for about 1800.00. What is the brand and size you are using?

Thanks

That's almost how I have the setup. One is full time with both music and movies (HGS12.) The other is just for additional LFE reinforcement (HGS15.) Looking to replace the HGS12 with a DD18 depending on if I get the deal I'm thinking I might get. Will use the HGS12 in my 2 channel system.

**alpina** · 19 April 2006, 21:17 Wednesday

are there undercoat and paints (for walls) that help with acoustics?

julie

**ZX10 Guy** · 19 April 2006, 21:20 Wednesday

Not that I'm aware of. You could possibly try to find a heavy type rubber coating similar to undercoating used on cars. But using undercoating as is....isn't the most aesthetically pleasing. I suppose you could mix it with paint but I still feel it's not very practical.

**alpina** · 19 April 2006, 21:29 Wednesday

definite intention would be to paint over the undercoat

julie

**ZX10 Guy** · 19 April 2006, 22:38 Wednesday

Well, I think you and I have the same taste in aesthetics. I think you'll find the room treatments I'm going to select will be both functional and won't detract from the overall look of the room. Hence why I'm paying a bit more than most for room treatments.

**alpina** · 19 April 2006, 22:53 Wednesday

Originally posted by ZX10 Guy

Well, I think you and I have the same taste in aesthetics. I think you'll find the room treatments I'm going to select will be both functional and won't detract from the overall look of the room. Hence why I'm paying a bit more than most for room treatments.

Can't wait to see your end result as I'm hoping to get some ideas

Julie

**Karma** · 20 April 2006, 00:07 Thursday

HI ZX and Julie,
While you are waiting to make a wall treatment decision you could start with the floors. You are going to have to carpet a high percentage (90%?) of your beautiful floors. I would go with wall to wall carpeting but that's just me. As an alternative, you can use large area rugs so part of your floor can show around the edges. There is just no getting around the fact that the most effective alteration will be thick, lush carpeting.

I think that once you make up your mind that your bare floors are your biggest enemy, you will come up with something that will be both sonically effective and stuningly beautiful. I know you can do it. I can hardly wait to see your solution.

Then you can get with the wall treatment program. Don't forget drapes (also thick and lush). Of course, when not listening, the drapes can be opened to reveal whatever it is you want to reveal.

Sonic treatment does not have to be ugly. As mentioned above, with a little imagination and determination you can have your cake and eat it too.

Sparky

**alpina** · 20 April 2006, 00:20 Thursday

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

please not the polished concrete floor - not really an option after spending a small fortune to do it. rugs we can live with that we put on and remove as required

there has to be another solution but floors are here to stay

julie

New HT speakers... B&W 805S/XT4?? (Pictures)

New HT speakers... B&W 805S/XT4?? (Pictures)

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Related Topics