How do you like your 2CH home theater setup?

[JKalman]

Jeff,

Oh ya, I saw that pic in the picture thread... what a beautiful simple setup.

Question... so you'd prefer a 4 channel (2 fr and 2 bk) setup over a 3
channel (2 front, 1 center)?

Ofcourse, 5.1 would be ideal, but of those 2 choices...

Tks!

Yes, only because you can have a surround system without the center channel if your receiver/processor allows you to turn off the center channel. You gain a lot more with that option than by adding a center channel. You would have a surround sound system as opposed to not having one at all with the other option.

As I've been saying this entire thread, you don't lose any of the center channel material if your receiver supports this function of mixing the center channel signal into the left and right speakers.

[JimTW]

Yes, only because you can have a surround system without the center channel if your receiver/processor allows you to turn off the center channel. You gain a lot more with that option than by adding a center channel. You would have a surround sound system as opposed to not having one at all with the other option.

As I've been saying this entire thread, you don't lose any of the center channel material if your receiver supports this function of mixing the center channel signal into the left and right speakers.

Cool, thanks Jeff. Next time I'm at the dealership, I'll ask to demo
some movies with 2 channel only, with center signal routed to the
front mains.

[JKalman]

JimTW, check out that link I posted above to the PDF file. It has some rational, down-to-earth information about audio and HT in general. Here is a link to some other articles, etc, as well. I don't agree with everything he says, but he has some interesting points, and definitely some informative and truthful information. I'll just repost the a link to all the downloads on his site: free journals. Someone turned me onto his articles recently and they have already been useful in helping me with my system. Good luck! :T

[JKalman]

The second journal will be useful for helping you set up your system in the best possible spot in your HT room.

[audioqueso]

Jim, JKalman is right about the tv. If you have a big furniture/tv inbetween, then it really isn't worth the time to focus on a 2-channel HT setup. If you have a similar setup, go for the multiple speaker setup. There is a BIG difference in imaging when you have something bulky inbetween your fronts. I had pushed the speakers back about 2 feet when I took that picture (for the picture). I had them about 2 feet further out to accommodate. But even that was not enough. I played around a bit and actually removed the tv and audio rack, placed the speaker about 5 feet from the wall, and had nothing blocking it. If I could, I would keep it that way. Imaging was gorgious. But I like my tv. My new home has a big living room so I am able to give my 805s a lot of space of their own. That's good, but it's not enough to create that phantom image that JKalman probably has, so I need a center. What does your setup look like?

[JimTW]

Jim, JKalman is right about the tv. If you have a big furniture/tv inbetween, then it really isn't worth the time to focus on a 2-channel HT setup. If you have a similar setup, go for the multiple speaker setup. There is a BIG difference in imaging when you have something bulky inbetween your fronts. I had pushed the speakers back about 2 feet when I took that picture (for the picture). I had them about 2 feet further out to accommodate. But even that was not enough. I played around a bit and actually removed the tv and audio rack, placed the speaker about 5 feet from the wall, and had nothing blocking it. If I could, I would keep it that way. Imaging was gorgious. But I like my tv. My new home has a big living room so I am able to give my 805s a lot of space of their own. That's good, but it's not enough to create that phantom image that JKalman probably has, so I need a center. What does your setup look like?

audioqueso,

What exactly happened to the imaging of the speakers when they were
placed very similar to the setup in the picture? I understand the big TV
was in the way, but what kind of effects did it have on the imaging the
soundstage?

Tks.

[audioqueso]

Think of it like this. You remember those 3D picture books where if you stare at it just right, you see a cool 3D image and it feels as if you're RIGHT THERE? It's almost the same thing. Our eyes see reflected light, our ears hear soundwaves. The speakers placed in a perfect setup (nothing inbetween, just enough space all around it, etc) will make perfect symmetrical waves, right? You're in the right chair, right listening position, so it's like you're focused just right on the picture image. When you see it, you get drawn in and it feels like you're right there in the picture, right? It's the same feel with the 805s. Once you have just the right setup you can sit down and it feels like you're right there in the music. You put something in the middle of the picture page, and you no longer can see the image in 3D the same way. You can see part of it, but not the whole thing and not get the same feel where it feels like you're there. You put something bulky in between the speakers, and the soundwaves now refract and you no longer have perfect symmetrical soundwave, which breaks the intregity of the 3D image. Make sense? That's why I bring my speakers out now as much as I can because the less I have in the way of the soundwaves, the better/bigger the image. Hope this makes sense to you.

[JimTW]

Think of it like this. You remember those 3D picture books where if you stare at it just right, you see a cool 3D image and it feels as if you're RIGHT THERE? It's almost the same thing. Our eyes see reflected light, our ears hear soundwaves. The speakers placed in a perfect setup (nothing inbetween, just enough space all around it, etc) will make perfect symmetrical waves, right? You're in the right chair, right listening position, so it's like you're focused just right on the picture image. When you see it, you get drawn in and it feels like you're right there in the picture, right? It's the same feel with the 805s. Once you have just the right setup you can sit down and it feels like you're right there in the music. You put something in the middle of the picture page, and you no longer can see the image in 3D the same way. You can see part of it, but not the whole thing and not get the same feel where it feels like you're there. You put a big TV between the speakers, and the soundwaves not refract and you not longer have perfect symmetrical soundwave, which break the 3D image. Make sense? That's why I bring my speakers out now as much as I can because the less I have in the way of the soundwaves, the better/bigger the image. Make sense?

Oh ya, ofcourse!

But, I was wondering if the big tv made the sound stag sound
any less deep or maybe less wide. Or perhaps just ruining the
3D-ness and/or symmety of the sound stage/image.

Btw, those 3D images are cool. Not everyone can focus their
eyes in such a way to see them. =D
or

[audioqueso]

I would say it loses width more than depth, and as you put it, kinda ruins the 3D-ness a lot more.

[audioqueso]

I used to think the whole furniture around the speaker was just some stupid myth, but then I read it on B&Ws website (the tutorial page), put two and two together, and remembered about a minor importance: refraction.

[Kevin D]

Just to add something here. Just because your pre/pro will let you mix back in channels, this does not mean it will be correct!

We had an issue on Club Rotel. All of Rotel's 10 series processors have limited processing power. It must first decode the signal into 7 channels and then it mixes back in unused channels. If you try mixing too many channels back in you will run out of processor. This leads to a severe loss of dynamics.

No center rears, you're fine.
No center, you're fine.
No center OR center rears, loss of dynamics on fronts and rears.
Fronts only, even more loss of dynamics.

It's seems more present on DTS tracks. I discovered this at a customers house that had a 4.1 setup. We replaced an HK piece that sounded pretty good. Set everything thing up and his favorite DTS concert sounded like butt. I was trying everything I could and nothing was fixing it. Playing around with the speaker settings I accidentally turned the center output back on. While we did lose center 'sound', the front and rear sound instantly jumped up in quality and dynamics.

Rotel's reply was that the preamp was a 7.1 unit that can do 5.1. Anything less and you compromise the sound. We had to leave the center turned on and add a mixer between the preamp and amps, mixing the center output back into the left/right ourselves AFTER the preamp.

Just a warning to check and make sure your preamp will mix the center back in, without effecting the original sound.

Kevin D.

[grit]

Just to add, if you're going to use fronts only or a 4.1 system, you may prefer to select the 2-ch soundtrack on a DVD (as opposed to the 5.1). For the 4.1 (or 3 channel set-up), you can try having the processor use Dolby ProLogic II to create your surround effect.

[abqnmusa]

I prefer 2 channel for home theater

Just personal opinion here. But I prefer the simplicity of 2 channel. It gives me the best possible sound for CD's & works quite well for DVD's.

I am using B&W 802 S3's powered by Rotel electronics.

B&W 802 S3 speakers
Rotel RC-1090 preamp
Rotel RB-1090 stereo power amp (380 wpc)
Rotel RCD-1072 CD player
Rotel RDV-1060 DVD player

The DVD is set for "stereo" and the player has stereo only left & right outputs. The DVD player mixes the center channel exactly into the center of the stereo mix. It provides clear voices.

Possibly a 3 channel amp could best the sound for voices. But I do not want to deal with the extra speaker & more expensive amp. The 1090 amp provides plenty of clear sound that controls the 802 S3 well. It provides ample headroom for the DVD soundtracks.

The 802 S3's do not need a subwoofer with the 1090 powering them. Movie soundtracks have plenty of low frequency bass notes in music, and smash, crash, bang on the movie soundtracks.

2 channel lives on :>)