Power Amp for 803S?

**stewfoo** · 08 January 2006, 00:57 Sunday

I just sold my 5 month old rotel gear for Classe ssp 300 pre-proc and 3200 amp. I have the 803s and htm3s also... I will let you know how it all sounds... I get the upgrades in a week or so.
Stew

**chinets** · 08 January 2006, 04:34 Sunday

I have 803's and I believe Rotel gear 1095/1098 is sensational for both HT and Music and make a great Marriage with B7W especially the 803's, and yes you do need vast power to run and make those 803's sing and 200w per chan. Is what you need from my experience nothing less will do. Good Luck !!!!!!!!!

**shadow** · 08 January 2006, 08:31 Sunday

Originally posted by chinets

I have 803's and I believe Rotel gear 1095/1098 is sensational for both HT and Music and make a great Marriage with B7W especially the 803's, and yes you do need vast power to run and make those 803's sing and 200w per chan. Is what you need from my experience nothing less will do. Good Luck !!!!!!!!!

Well, not necessarily. There is a fellow at AVS with these speakers who sold his Rotel 1095 because a Panasonic X55 receiver at $300 sounded just as good.

**chinets** · 08 January 2006, 08:58 Sunday

Shadow you must be joking????? Please send this comment to B&W and see what they say. Rotel 1095 equivalent to Panasonic...please my ears!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me Krell,Bryston whatever but not Panasonic. For God sake you are a senior member and should know better. You are destroying Rotel's Image in one second. Why not join the Panasonic forum Instead? The above was my honest opinion and for the money Rotel is sensational for HT/music!!! I am stating my own experience as I have that set up and I am not commenting hearsay of a fellow from AVS who told you that rubbish!!! I speak from my own very experience and In my opinion only from first hand experience not a story someone has told you. Please check your source before commenting since you are a Senior member and should know MUCH better. Sorry but I believe I am right.

**Lestat** · 08 January 2006, 12:32 Sunday

Originally posted by chinets

Shadow you must be joking????? Please send this comment to B&W and see what they say. Rotel 1095 equivalent to Panasonic...please my ears!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me Krell,Bryston whatever but not Panasonic. For God sake you are a senior member and should know better. You are destroying Rotel's Image in one second. Why not join the Panasonic forum Instead? The above was my honest opinion and for the money Rotel is sensational for HT/music!!! I am stating my own experience as I have that set up and I am not commenting hearsay of a fellow from AVS who told you that rubbish!!! I speak from my own very experience and In my opinion only from first hand experience not a story someone has told you. Please check your source before commenting since you are a Senior member and should know MUCH better. Sorry but I believe I am right.

Have you heard the Panasonic amp? If not, what basis do you have for your opinion? No, I haven't heard it either, but it seems that the X55 is getting extremely good reviews on the net, along with the pitiful looking T-amp. Both are fully digital amps, and it seems that the digital amps have some tricks up their sleeves. Don't dismiss a product based on brand or price, unless you've heard it you don't really have a basis for it.

Disclaimer: I'm a HK guy, and was/am sceptical about the X55 as well, but at least I have enough sense to not judge something until I've listened to it.

L.

**rav934** · 08 January 2006, 13:24 Sunday

Take a listen to the Musical Fidelity A5 integrated amp. I just got mine and it simply shocked me when connected to new 804s speakers. I liked it so much I ordered the A5 CD player to match. Look for my posts in two weeks reviewing the complete system.

**misterdoggy** · 08 January 2006, 14:47 Sunday

Its all a question of how much you are ready to spend isn't it ?

Classe, Levinson and Krell = bigger bucks than Panasonic, Rotel etc.

You get what you pay for.......

**shadow** · 08 January 2006, 15:45 Sunday

Originally posted by misterdoggy

Its all a question of how much you are ready to spend isn't it ?

Classe, Levinson and Krell = bigger bucks than Panasonic, Rotel etc.

You get what you pay for.......

Well, not necessarily but this attitude keeps the elite manufacturers and dealers rich and happy.

**shadow** · 08 January 2006, 16:00 Sunday

Hey Chinets, don't you think that actual experience with a product is a more reliable basis for judging a component than simply reciting conventional wisdom? As I noted, the user in the AVS Forum really used a Panasonic and decided for himself, rather than parrot the conventional wisdom of the magazines and dealers. Predictably, he has received his fair share of criticism from people who would never lower themselves to give the Panasonic a try, but he has considered these critcisms and stands by his decision. He sold his Rotel 1095 since it sounded no better than the X-55.

**Angioguy** · 08 January 2006, 16:30 Sunday

Mac-Krell-Levinson-Classe-Rowland

All your thoughts are greatly appreciated... back to my original question: Any thoughts about McIntosh / Krell / Levinson / Classe / Rowland for the 803's? Is comparing a tube to solid state power amplifier like comparing apples to oranges when considering the output needed to drive these speakers??

**misterdoggy** · 08 January 2006, 17:56 Sunday

Originally posted by shadow

Well, not necessarily but this attitude keeps the elite manufacturers and dealers rich and happy.

I've had my fair share of good amps in my day (levinson, Mcintoshand, krell and others) although you can find good sounding amps and create great systems for less money, you can be sure a krell fpb750mcx is going to sound good. Of course for 20k you would hope so.

You get what you pay for

**Karma** · 08 January 2006, 18:48 Sunday

HI doggy,
Yes, you do get what you pay for. It's a cosmic law or something.

Sparky

**stewfoo** · 08 January 2006, 20:48 Sunday

In my opinion, Rotels are great value pieces. But, the 800 series from B&W are truly way too much for Rotel. I dont mean this in terms of raw power. My 1095 rocked the hell out of my 803s and htm3s. But, when it comes to critical listening the 800 series is way too revealing to have that kind of "Value" gear behind it. Now lets put this into perspective. I live in a pretty nice country club area in Arizona and all theneighbors talk about how crazy my Rotel and B&W setup are. Its all relative. But, there is definitely the law of diminishing returns once you climb the hifi ladder... I am hoping that i get some benefit from moving from Rotel to Classe....
Stew

**misterdoggy** · 09 January 2006, 04:33 Monday

Originally posted by stewfoo

In my opinion, Rotels are great value pieces. But, the 800 series from B&W are truly way too much for Rotel. I am hoping that i get some benefit from moving from Rotel to Classe....
Stew

I had a Rotel RB1090 with 804S's but they really sang when i switched to the krell 2250. The rotel was 300wpc and the krell is 250wpc but no comparison. Also price is no comparison as the krell is more than twice the price. So more watts = better sound / not that simple a calculation. Especially when you move in to "A" watts.

**chinets** · 09 January 2006, 09:28 Monday

Shadow and Lestat, I have tried the Panasonic X55 for your information and I have the Rotel 1095 Amp. and IMHO believe the Rotel blows the Panasonic out of the water no matter what any magazine comments on. Yes, I base my feed back on actual listening to both. I personally hate the sound of Digital amps. and maybe that is the case ,but I would sincerely never compare Rotel to Panasonic YET!!!!!!!! That is my opinion.
Can misterdoggy please help the forum understand why would an Amp by Rotel 200 watts such as Rotel 1095 sound so different from the Krell let us say also a 200 w amp. and for argument sake all in 5 channel of out put 200w. What would be the different in sound you would hear..Please describe in detail!! and also what would be the difference in sound comparing both in music and again comparing both with HT?? WHAT WOULD YOU HEAR DIFFERENT?? ( IS IT A MAJOR DIFFERENCE THAT ANYONE OF THE STREET WOULD NOTICE IMMEDIATELY????AND WHAT ARE THEY???) This would be valuable information for all of us and of great interest to all of us. Thanks in advance Misterdoggy?????

**Kobus** · 09 January 2006, 10:15 Monday

The AVS X55 guy might be BLAZAR on this forum. This is what he said in club Rotel, the Jerry 1077 thread.

I wrote a review of the Panasonic SA-XR55 on the avsforum amp forum. My prior setup was a rotel 1095 amp. Except for almost non-existant baseline "hiss" there is no obvious perceivable difference between the two units except that the xr55 uses less power (more efficient), has 7 channels, weighs only 10 pounds, runs cooler, and is only $230 bucks.

I basically sold the rotel 1095 and shipped it off to its new owner and kept the panasonic since it sounds at least as good, if not better at times. I'm also selling my m-audio delta 1010 d/a converter since the panasonic can do it all and still sound as good.

I use B&W 802D's with my $230 panasonic and I'm very happy with the performance for the last week that I've had it.

It wouldn't surprise me that the rotel 1077 sounds great, I'm currently doubtful of it's current cash/retail value though considering how inexpensive the technology is becoming.
__________________
Blazar!
(HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

**pinoy_g35** · 09 January 2006, 10:57 Monday

Although I just started this audio hobby recently, I also run my 703, HMT7, and DS6 with Panasonic XR55. I am happy with the Panny but, I've never run my speaker setup with anything else. I'm still 'wondering' what it will be like to have a rotel amp or an outlaw audio amp to power my setup. I've also followed the AVS forum for awhile and have seen BLAZAR's comments on 1095 and it may have persuaded me to use the Panny. I haven't gone back to any dealer yet to audition 703 with rotel so I can't comment yet.

**Lestat** · 09 January 2006, 11:47 Monday

Originally posted by chinets

Yes, I base my feed back on actual listening to both. I personally hate the sound of Digital amps. and maybe that is the case ,but I would sincerely never compare Rotel to Panasonic YET!!!!!!!! That is my opinion.

Good, at least you aren't basing your opinion on hear-say. That doesn't change the fact that the X-55 caused a great furore when it hit the streets, among audiophiles especially. If the X-55 is just an average product for it's price, why is there suddenly this huge interest in it? Why are there so many people who are replacing setups with it? Again I reiterate that I'm sceptical myself, but it's foolish to discount the many stories from people who have found it to have great sound. Also, I wouldn't say Rotel is nearly at the level of Krell, not the stuff I've heard. It's not at the pricepoint of Krell either, so it's all good. Comparing Panasonic to Rotel isn't the same as comparing it to Krell or Bryston. (Which I've never heard).

L.

**Angioguy** · 09 January 2006, 11:52 Monday

As new to the forum as I am, there continues to be a recurrent theme-- a common thread woven into the fabric of many B&W posts-- and that thread is a reference to Rotel products-- WHAT'S THE DEAL? I put forth a question about Mac, Krell, Levinson and Classe, but what comes back is a rather engaging discussion leading to how great a company Rotel is, their association with Bowers and Wilkins and how the two products make beautiful music together: I dispute none of these claims. I prefer to think of myself an open-minded listener, which is why I post and why I am at this point adding them to my growing list.

Aside from Rotel (or Panasonic), what other power amplifier-- tube or solid state in the <$6000 price range-- might anyone recommend to drive a pair of B&W 803's?

Thanks again.

**nyny** · 09 January 2006, 12:11 Monday

Angioman, I am currently driving my 803S with Jeff Rowland Concerto Integrated and found them to be a good match. I auditioned Krell KAV-2250 and KAV-400xi, Bryston 4BSST, and Rotel RB-1080 before I decided on the Jeff Rowland due to the following reasons:

- To me, the JR sounded more musical; it just puts out a livelier sound through the 803S than the other amps/integrated that I tested;
- Small footprint and looks great;
- Very effecient and runs very cool.

If integrated amp is not your cup of tea, you should consider JR 201 or 501 monos. I think JR gears definitely worth a listen given your price range. Hope this helps.

**Kobus** · 09 January 2006, 16:16 Monday

Posted by Angioguy
WHAT'S THE DEAL? I put forth a question about Mac, Krell, Levinson and Classe, but what comes back is a rather engaging discussion leading to how great a company Rotel is

I agree with you, but part of the answer is value for money!, and you will have to pay double(or more) the money for a marginal benefit. It is all budget dependant. None of these guys promoting Rotel will argue that Krell, Classe, etc is not better.

Kobus

**gunny** · 10 January 2006, 00:57 Tuesday

"Aside from Rotel (or Panasonic), what other power amplifier-- tube or solid state in the <$6000 price range-- might anyone recommend to drive a pair of B&W 803's?

Thanks again."

Parasound Halo A51 worked well with my previous 804S's, and now does so with 802d's.

**RebelMan** · 10 January 2006, 01:31 Tuesday

Angioguy, here is my abridge opinion of the 803S's and the brands that I have heard them with...

Arcam - Two dimensional, laid back and lacking in detail.
Rotel - Somewhat forward, a little analytical and slightly anemic.
Bryston - Accurate, revealing and dynamically transparent.
Classe - Dynamically rich, full and musical in character.

My choice would be between the last two. Classe' is more elegant but Bryston makes the toughest gear you can buy. Acoustically speaking they are a draw as each shares many similar qualities. My summary above attempts to highlight the ones that stood out the most. Hope this helps.

**chinets** · 10 January 2006, 09:40 Tuesday

Lestat,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate it.

RebelMan described 4 different amps. very interesting to all of us ..Thanks!!!
What do you mean by forward and what is slightly anemic when describing Rotel??
Can you describe these 4 amps. In more deatail than just phrases. Sorry, what I mean is what would a person from the street with no knowledge of Music etc.. A total amateur tell the difference between these 4 amp. if they heard them from one room to another????? Could he come up with your same description and comments of these 4 amps.????? I am an amateur and I am thrilled to learn more ,so please bare with us, as we are learning from you and others on this forum and this is the purpose of this forum is to learn and I apprecaiate all your wise comments RebelMan. Thanks in advance!!!!

**jericho** · 10 January 2006, 17:29 Tuesday

I would also give the McIntosh MC-402 a try!!!Lot's of power, dynamic,etc...just you like the look or not!!!You can even drive the 803D or the 802D with this amplifier.About 7000$

Power Amp for 803S?

Power Amp for 803S?

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