B&W 803s and Bryston 9B-SST

[RebelMan]

Can anyone share their experiences with B&W's 803s and Bryston's 9B-SST?

I know it seems like a technical mismatch at first glance but I am curious to know if anyone decided to drive their 803s with the 9B-SST inspite of the rules. Comparisons and contrasts to the Rotel RMB-1075 are also welcome, again with respect to the 803s.

[james_dmi]

Why is it against the rules?

Are you planning to bi-amp with 4 of the channels? And use the 5th for a small centre?

I have been reading up quite a bit on Bryston and from what I can gather all the amps have similar sound quality but differ in power output. There are no ranges in the Bryston line-up just the best amps they can make at different power levels.

Many have said other amps in the range are good with B&W so I guess it should be fine as long as you don’t want to go too loud. Sorry I don’t have any first hand experience as of yet. I'm booked in to listen to 802D’s with a Bryston 4B-SST against other rivals on November the 26th and I would be happy to share that with you when I'm done.

James.

[PavelL]

B&W requirement is 50w/channel minimum for smaller rooms. What mismatch are you talking about? B&W sound best when biamped. (at least that's my experience... and it makes sense - by biamping your speakers you "isolate" those hard-to-drive bass drivers from the more "delicate" mids and highs) bryston 9b will let you biamp 803s.

[RebelMan]

Many have said other amps in the range are good with B&W so I guess it should be fine as long as you don’t want to go too loud.

Ultimately, I would like to utilize a high performance multi-channel amplifier that can server me well in both music and HT applications. I am particular interested in Bryston's 6B-SST, 4B-SST and 3B-SST, but the problem is they demand plenty of real estate. The 9B-SST's form factor is more conducive to my equipment space requirements, therefore, I wonder how it would stack up driving the 803s under realistic conditions.

I don't intend to make any compromises but if the 9B-SST could do the job then I would like to consider it. Unfortunately, not as much is said about the 9B-SST, in relation to its cousins when driving relatively demanding loads, so I am looking for some practical feedback.

I am already familiar with the Bryston sound and its sonic consistency between amplifiers. What I don't know is how well the 9B-SST would do under pressure given the demands of the 803s and my ocassional "need for speed", so to speak.

[RebelMan]

B&W sound best when biamped. (at least that's my experience...)

My intentions would be to use the 9B-SST without bi-amping.

[JKalman]

I am using the Bryston 9B SST and the Bryston SP1.7(in bypass mode for music) with a pair of B&W 802Ds. I have them bi-amped though, two channels per speaker. They do sound great bi-amped. I don't see why you would have problems with 120 Watts using only one channel per speaker. I shouldn't need mine bi-amped, but since I'm saving up for the rest of my 5.1 setup, I figured why the hell not in the mean time. I don't think the 803 would have problems, but you could always try to find a dealer who has both and try it out. I'll probably get a 14B SST when the time is right to finish up my HT.

[RobP]

Hey Rebelman,

I know that you and I are in the same boat as far as wanting to stick with multi-channel amplifier and we are both looking to upgrade, my concern on the Bryston is that it is rated @ 120 Watts per channel, Right now I am using my Rotel 1065 that is rated @ 120 Watts a channel in 2 Channel mode, and it is really not enough to kick things up a knotch when needed.
Now I know that the Bryston is a better quality amplifer, but will it still be enough? As you know I am on the look out right now for a Classe CAV180 which delivers 180Watts a channel x 5, and somehow, I still think that even I would need a little more for reserves "if needed" to bring out the bass detail in my 803's.
I remember hearing a pair of 803's on a Classe CA2200 and it just took charge of the speakers and really impressed the hell out of me and if I can get close to that , then I will be one happy camper. :B

[RebelMan]

JKalman, from what I have seen the 9B-SST (C) has been re-rated for 140 wpc and some have reported that it has tested over 160 wpc. Still, it would be nice to have that comfort zone of 200 - 250 wpc, just in case. This is where my trepedation sets in. Could I play the amp loud enough to satisfy me? Better yet would I even need to?

I sometimes push my RB-1080 because it doesn't respond well, on the low end, otherwise. I love it when my woofers are snapping to the beat, but I don't care for the fatigue that starts to set in on top at these volumes.

Bass extension with my 803S's is fine, I just want more "volume" and I know the Bryston can deliver. After all, I heard the 6B-SST and the RMB-1095 drive the same pair of 802D's and the Bryston was definitely fuller. Though, I am pretty sure the SP 1.7 versus the RSP-1098 had a pretty big hand in this also.

By the way, do you run your SP 1.7 with the "Bass Extender" on or off in two channel by-pass mode?

SG, I have heard Classe' amplifiers driving a pair of 802D's at another dealer and I was pleased with their results too. Although, it wasn't the CA-5200 that I am (also) intrested in. The only real problem I have with Classe' is their pricing structure! LOL

[RobP]

Well it looks as if the Brystons are underated in their power, although at least 200wpc would be nice.

The Classe 5200 is a very exspensive amp, my wife never says anything about what I buy, but if I brought that home, she may start.

[JKalman]

JKalman, from what I have seen the 9B-SST (C) has been re-rated for 140 wpc and some have reported that it has tested over 160 wpc. Still, it would be nice to have that comfort zone of 200 - 250 wpc, just in case. This is where my trepedation sets in. Could I play the amp loud enough to satisfy me? Better yet would I even need to?

I sometimes push my RB-1080 because it doesn't respond well, on the low end, otherwise. I love it when my woofers are snapping to the beat, but I don't care for the fatigue that starts to set in on top at these volumes.

Bass extension with my 803S's is fine, I just want more "volume" and I know the Bryston can deliver. After all, I heard the 6B-SST and the RMB-1095 drive the same pair of 802D's and the Bryston was definitely fuller. Though, I am pretty sure the SP 1.7 versus the RSP-1098 had a pretty big hand in this also.

By the way, do you run your SP 1.7 with the "Bass Extender" on or off in two channel by-pass mode?

SG, I have heard Classe' amplifiers driving a pair of 802D's at another dealer and I was pleased with their results too. Although, it wasn't the CA-5200 that I am (also) intrested in. The only real problem I have with Classe' is their pricing structure! LOL

In bypass mode everything is off, it is bypass mode...

[JKalman]

As far as using the 9B SST, I don't see why you would have a problem. It is way above the minimum that B&W asks for their speakers...

[JKalman]

BTW, you know that B&W owns Classe now anyway?

[JKalman]

Pitting that Rotel vs the Bryston BTW, is sort of funny, no comparison in my opinion, and unless you work for B&W you would agree I think. The Bryston blows it away, unless you work for B&W... since they own it.

[RobP]

Looks like I found a Bryston dealer close to where I live, Im going to have to see if I cant make it over there and have a listen. dont they have a three channel version?

[Mark_C.]

The Bryston blows it away, unless you work for B&W... since they own it.

B&W does not own Rotel. They have joint marketing, but are separate companies. It's when persons proclaim assumptions as facts on the internet that misinformation becomes gospel.

[RebelMan]

Looks like I found a Bryston dealer close to where I live, Im going to have to see if I cant make it over there and have a listen. dont they have a three channel version?

Yes they do, it is the 6B-SST.

Hopefully, you will get the opportunity too and maybe even share your thoughts about them.

[RebelMan]

B&W does not own Rotel. They have joint marketing, but are separate companies. It's when persons proclaim assumptions as facts on the internet that misinformation becomes gospel.

Hmm, isn't that kind of like saying that Pepsi Cola Co. doesn't own KFC, or Taco Bell or Pizza Hut....

B&W Group has a financial interest in Rotel, it is a subsidary of theirs, which for all intents and puposes means that they own the company. They just don't run the day to day operations.

Take a look here... http://www.bwspeakers.com/clarity/

[Mark_C.]

Kind of flies in the face of this thread....

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=11579&highlight=owns+rotel]

[RebelMan]

Does it? Please take note of the following...

DISTRIBUTION
Contact: John Nicoll
Nicoll Public Relations Inc.
781-762-9300

Equity International Bestowed Prestigious Industry Award Again!

At the recent PARA (Professional Audio/Video Retailers Assn.) Conferenceheld at the Camelback Inn, Scottsdale, AZ............Equity International.Inc., the holding company of B&W Loudspeakers, Rotel Electronics, I-Command,and Classé Audio was the proud recipient of PARA’s “Manufacturer of the Year” award for the 3rd time.

PARA bestows this award to only those manufacturers who consistently exhibitthe highest level of excellence in dealer support and services.

“We have always maintained a strict commitment of supporting our dealers whowe consider our business partners,” Peter Wellikoff, President of Equity International stated. “We are extremely proud to have received theManufacturer of the Year Award from PARA again, it is truly an honor and itgives us even more incentive to excel in all our future dealer support
activities.”

As a PARA associate member, Equity International has continually supportedPARA in their efforts to create programs to help the specialty dealer become more proficient and professional in all day-to-day activities.

About Equity International:

The B&W Group’s portfolio of consumer electronics brands is comprised ofBowers & Wilkins (B&W) Loudspeakers, Classé Audio (electronics), i-Command™(control systems), and Rotel Electronics. This extensive combination of premium products are marketed in more than 60 countries worldwide via B&W’s network of wholly owned and independent distributors. Headquartered in Worthing, England, the B&W Group also maintains a U.S. office in North Reading, Massachusetts with Equity International, a subsidiary, which distributes the brands throughout North America.

A holding company is a company that owns enough voting stock in another firm to control management and operations by influencing or electing its board of directors.

Strictly speaking, the term "holding company" might be used to describe any company that owns a majority of shares in another company. Usually, though, the term signifies a company which does not produce goods or services itself, but, rather, whose only purpose is owning shares of other companies (or owning other companies outright). Holding companies allow the reduction of risk for the owners and can allow the ownership and control of a number of different companies.

Any questions?

[Mark_C.]

The point is B&W speakers do not own Rotel.

Any questions?

[RebelMan]

We are getting off topic so I will make this my final comment.

Perhaps you are just unfamilure with the interworkings of corporate enterprises? It really comes down to semantics. B&W Bowers & Wilkins (a.k.a B&W Loudspeakers) does not own Rotel any more than it owns Classe'. The parent company (B&W Group, which no doubt is composed of the same board of directors as B&W Loudspeakers), however, does have a vested interest in all three companies.

I doubt Rotel is a wholly owned subsidiary as it still answers to corporate directives as prescribed by the B&W Group. If Rotel was not subject to the "group's" control (stock ownership or otherwise) what would be the point of having any interest in Rotel at all? It's not the same case with their dealer network which are independent and wholly owned.

Needless to say, B&W (Corporate) does have controlling ownership over Rotel.

[JKalman]

Pretty smart group, with Rotel and Classe in their bed, they own a nice spread of mid-fi to h-fi components to feed their speakers. The high end Classe components are pretty sweet, I wish I could go that high in price. Rotel makes great gear for the price, but it is borderline hi-fi IMO. That being said, I'm sorry I brought up such a delicate topic. I'm sure whatever range either components fall under, B&W will make sure they sound great with their speakers, which is always a plus if you stay within their product lines.

With my space and the couch I bought for it, I realized I'm sort of stuck with either getting a second 9B SST or selling it and getting two 7B SSTs, and one 6B SST three channel amp. That or I can use the 9B SST with the two 7B SSTs and waste two channels. I don't have a lot of room to put two more 805S speakers anywhere to make a 7.1 system. Actually, now that I think about it, I would only waste one channel, so perhaps keeping the 9B is worth it to feed the HTM2D with two channels, then I have one channel each for the 805s and an extra left over if I decide to try a 6.1 setup, or I could switch the HTM2D to one channel later on and possibly try to fit a 7.1 system in my space somehow.

I don't know why I bother thinking about this stuff all the time... I can't make any major changes for a few months anyhow. First things first, I need to get ready to order a pair of 805s with stands for sometime in February. It's always good to have a plan of action I guess.

[JKalman]

I am going to hook my 802Ds up to one channel each and see if it makes any glaring differences. 120-140 wpc should be enough, and according to hifi-choice, the 802Ds are an A rating for drivability.

[george_k]

The 9B-SST comes in 3ch and 5ch configurations as well. I don't know what they go in the states but here in quebec the msrp for the 5ch configuration is $6000 (but I'm sure you get a better deal in-store)

As a side note you might also consider the ST versions which came out prior the the SST series. Besides the $$$ savings, the warranties are fully transferable and you're likely to find some are still under warranty

[RebelMan]

I am going to hook my 802Ds up to one channel each and see if it makes any glaring differences. 120-140 wpc should be enough, and according to hifi-choice, the 802Ds are an A rating for drivability.

If this is not an inconvienice for you I would appreciate hearing about how it goes. Thanks.

[JKalman]

If this is not an inconvienice for you I would appreciate hearing about how it goes. Thanks.

I bi-wired each speaker to one channel. the one channel for each speaker setup isn't having a problem driving the 802Ds and I'm trying all different kinds of music, from light with acoustics and vocals to heavy with a lot of bass. I guess I might not need to change amps at all unless I do decide to go with a 7.1 surround setup later on. The music actually sounds a little clearer now, most likely from removing the cheap Y-cable adaptor I was using as a temp till I could order some dedicated Y-cables.

[JKalman]

If this is not an inconvienice for you I would appreciate hearing about how it goes. Thanks.

I had time to do more extensive listening today. I don't think I'm noticing any problems with the volume loud, of course I don't crank it up very loud usually, so I don't have much of a point of reference. With music like Bela Fleck on SACD, and other more instrumental music, raised volume doesn't seem to effect the music adversely at the levels I am used to, as well as when I turn the volume up much louder than the level I usually listen to the music at. I am hearing all the details in the music. It gets harder when I try music that is sometimes murky due to the album recorders choice, like Radiohead's OK Computer, but when I turn the volume down again, it seems to be murky at the lower levels of volume as well (a volume level that should be fine for my amp/speaker combo). So I am fairly certain it is the recording and not the music. I will continue to test some other bands, like Iron Maiden, Weezer and others that have a harder sound but who are not as adventurous with the effects devices and then post more.

If there is anything in particular you want me to test, feel free to ask, if I have it on hand I'll try it out. Then I will switch back to bi-amped on Sunday and try out recordings I felt may have been stuggling with the lower ampage and see if it is just my perception or not. I don't need to turn the volume up more than halfway for my room size, and I usually keep it between 1/4 and 1/2 somewhere, the latter usually on formats that play softer through my DVD-5910, like this Bela Fleck "Drive" SACD.

[JKalman]

BTW for your reference, my listening space has a front area of around 14 feet and the room goes back 33 feet or so. The speakers are 80 inches apart (from their centers) and three feet from the front and side walls and my seating position is around 90 inches back from both speakers. I have the speakers toe in towards my seating position. That should help as a comparable reference to your layout vs. mine in terms of volume levels you may use compared to what I would likely use. My proximity to the speakers doesn't require an extreme amount of volume. Though, even when I sit at the other end of the room around 25 feet away at a desk typing on this forum, I don't need the music much louder...

[RebelMan]

Jeff, do you have a sound level meter? With the dial set to "52" on my Rotel RSX-1056, with pre-outs to my Rotel RB-1080 (200 wpc into 8 ohms), I am averaging about 72-74dB on bass heavy notes and about 76dB overall from my usual listening position. It's around this setting, and depending on the recording of course, that the music starts to come alive.

Under critical listening I push the dial up to about 62 which equates to a 10dB increase in sound and on some occasions, when I want a life like sound field, I will increase the dial to 66. On rare occasions, when I want to indulge myself, I'll top out around 72 (76 with less dynamic recordings) which is about 96dB. There were a couple of times when I pushed my RB-1080 between 80 and 90 (again source material permitting). Although I couldn't stand to be in the same room without a pair of earplugs when I did it. (DISCLAIMER: This was a very risky proposition and I don't recommend anyone try this in their own home!!!)

I am not suggesting that you push your 9B-SST to the limit (or even close to it), like I did with my RB-1080. However, I would find it very useful information if you have the ability to make some quantifiable measurements, at various listening levels (comfortable to you), and correlated that with an evaluation of the musical qualities of the reproduced sound.

I am ultimately looking for more dynamic expression of sound, especially in the bass and mid bass octaves (where Bryston excels), and at the levels I typically listen too (76-86dB). My 803S's have very good bass extension but they lack "fullness" (not to be confused with "bassiness", if there were such a word) which to me means that they lack a sense of "feel" or punch to the music (until I "overdive" my amp).

The SP 1.7 and 6B-SST exhibited this fullness when I heard them with a pair of 802D's (contrary to the the RSP-1098 and RMB-1095 I compared it to). My question is, can the SP 1.7 and the 9B-SST do the same with my 803S's and still manage to sound stress free? If the 9B-SST were available to me I could answer my own question but sadly this is not the case.

Your evaluation of the SP 1.7 and 9B-SST combination with your 802D's has, thus far, been very helpful. Thank you!!!

By the way, I have eclectic musical tastes than spans from easy listening all the way to classical rock but I am mostly grounded in Smooth Jazz.

[JKalman]

Yeah, I'll use my SPL later today. I was listening to Steve Vai's Love and Passion and was raising the sound to half way. It is a very good recording quality with moments in the music that have a lot of dynamics. One problem I may have though, is my Denon DVD-5910 source may not be up to playing at a loud volume. I will continue to turn up the volume to half way, I'm not willing to push the system much farther, since it is beyond the range I would ever listen at.

I'm not a number cruncher in the audio sense, but it should be possible to plug in the stats of the Bryston 9B SST and the stats of the speakers range and figure out a relative ceiling on the amount of dB. I would also try contacting Bryston. I'm not certain with the volume up extremely loud, whether I am reaching the limitations of my ears, the source (Denon) or the amp, but the green lights on the amp are stable; there no flickering and no red lights. I can't be certain I understand what you mean by "fullness" vs. "bassiness", but to me it seems that the music is still as dynamic, the instruments are still separated and distinct on the Vai recording (during a fast/hard song) when listening at the volumes I tried.

My curiosity got the best of me, so I tried out song #2 with the SPL at my seating position, at ear level (92+ inches away). With the knob at half way on the SP1.7 I am registering on average between 88 and 92 dB. Again, at these sound levels, I can't be sure if it has the fullness you are looking for, I'll do a more careful comparison eaither later today or tommorrow and switch it back to being bi-amped to see if it makes a difference in the quality of the bass.

[JKalman]

BTW, this is what the 9B SST lists on the last page (front of page) of my manual at the bottom:

Power Consumption &Heat Load

single channel 120W @ 8 ohms - 242 Watts
5 channels @ 120W @ 8 ohms - 1397 Watts
Max. Heat Dissipation 8 ohms - 2720 Btu/Hr.

single channel 200W @ 4 ohms - 422 Watts
5 channels @ 200W @ 4 ohms - 2295 Watts
Max. Heat Dissipation 4 ohms - 4420 Btu/Hr.
At idle - 192 Watts


I'm not sure what the numbers on the right mean. I'm going to e-mail Bryston to ask on Monday, but if anyone knows what they mean, please feel free to give me a heads up.

Thanks.

[JKalman]

Yeeehaw: Peak SPL Calculator

[JKalman]

According to the Peak SPL Calculator the 9B SST should allow me to reach around 110.2 dB (107.2 dB if wall placement is not a consideration) at a distance of 7 feet from the speakers with my 802Ds, and this is with my choosing the lower power rating of 120 Watts per channel instead of the rerated 140 Watts per channel, though a difference of 20 Watts at this level is barely useful anyway. Hope that helps. That link should make it much easier for you to figure out the limits of the setup you plan on using. The calculator doesn't account for dynamic headroom either, and I'm not sure what the 9B SST has for dynamic headroom.

[JKalman]

Even if you go up to a 350 wpc amp you are only going to get 4.7 dB SPL increase. Fun toy to play around with, helps you get a better sense of the logarithmic nature of the dB (for every doubling of the power--Watts--you only gain 3 dB SPL).

[RebelMan]

I'm not certain with the volume up extremely loud, whether I am reaching the limitations of my ears, the source (Denon) or the amp, but the green lights on the amp are stable; there no flickering and no red lights.

This is good news. One of my curiosities were the behavoir of those lights when driving your 802D's at various levels.

I can't be certain I understand what you mean by "fullness" vs. "bassiness", but to me it seems that the music is still as dynamic, the instruments are still separated and distinct on the Vai recording (during a fast/hard song) when listening at the volumes I tried.

Quality bass is dependent on the volume of air movement which in turn is dependent on the size and motion of the low frequency drivers (woofers). I have seen the plots charting the low frequency response of the 9B-SST to be flat, linear and very well extended (a characteristic of Bryston amps) but not so with my RB-1080 (which I still highly regard). The audibility of these tests were clearly distinguished during the listening tests that I conducted with the 6B-SST and RMB-1095 (which is essentially a multi-channel version of my RB-1080). (Note: I heard both amps before reading their charts which eliminated any bias.)

I believe the fullness (volume) of which I speak is missing from my 803S's because the RB-1080 lacks the ability to utilize the full potential of its woofers. High volumes tend to mask this "defect" but introduces another one... fatigue. By the way, fullness to me includes a driver's ability to project a lively and distinct presence of the instrument with a three dimensional element. Whereas bassy reproduction tends to be blended and flat. (My RB-1080 does not produce a bassy signature, it just lacks some liveliness to it.)

My curiosity got the best of me, so I tried out song #2 with the SPL at my seating position, at ear level (92+ inches away). With the knob at half way on the SP1.7 I am registering on average between 88 and 92 dB. Again, at these sound levels, I can't be sure if it has the fullness you are looking for, I'll do a more careful comparison either later today or tommorrow and switch it back to being bi-amped to see if it makes a difference in the quality of the bass.

So far so good, thanks for the feedback. I look forward to comparisons with your bi-amped configuration.

[JKalman]

I am ultimately looking for more dynamic expression of sound, especially in the bass and mid bass octaves (where Bryston excels), and at the levels I typically listen too (76-86dB). My 803S's have very good bass extension but they lack "fullness" (not to be confused with "bassiness", if there were such a word) which to me means that they lack a sense of "feel" or punch to the music (until I "overdive" my amp).

The SP 1.7 and 6B-SST exhibited this fullness when I heard them with a pair of 802D's (contrary to the the RSP-1098 and RMB-1095 I compared it to). My question is, can the SP 1.7 and the 9B-SST do the same with my 803S's and still manage to sound stress free? If the 9B-SST were available to me I could answer my own question but sadly this is not the case.

I don't think you will ever be able to attain the bass depth you hear out of the 802D with a 803D just like you won't be able to achieve the bass sound that comes out of a 800D with the 802D. The bass drivers are more proficient in the 802D vs. the 803D. If the Bryston does indeed have a better response, then the bass will be faster and better timed, but improving the depth is a matter of the speaker driver itself I would think. That being said, you could offset the smaller bass of that unit by bringing it closer to the front and side walls.

In consideration of a 6B SST, the SPL calculator does a good job of pointing out that an increase from 120 Watts to 350 Watts is only around 4-5 dB. So the power of the amp shouldn't be an issue, they match up perfectly well, but I wouldn't go crazy and turn it up past 107 dB to test the calculator or the amp. I personally have never needed my system over 90 dB at my sitting position, that is, before testing it out for the thread. The unfortunate problem is that you will likely be bass limited by the speaker itself no matter which amplifier you use (which is why I chose the 802D over the 803D). You could always suppliment it with a sub if that ends up being a problem.

To be honest, I haven't noticed any difference between when I switched from bi-amped to just bi-wired. Bryston makes very solid amplifiers, and to me this is just more proof that the person who sold it to me nudged me in the right direction instead of trying to talk me into something much more expensive which I didn't need. To be fair though, the sales rep said I might want to bi-amp my 802Ds when I traded in my 7 series surround system for them. Nothing should cause the amp to run out of power till I reach over 107 dB, which is a number I am not even close to approaching because I don't listen to music at over 100 dB.

[RebelMan]

I don't think you will ever be able to attain the bass depth you hear out of the 802D with a 803D just like you won't be able to achieve the bass sound that comes out of a 800D with the 802D. The bass drivers are more proficient in the 802D vs. the 803D. If the Bryston does indeed have a better response, then the bass will be faster and better timed, but improving the depth is a matter of the speaker driver itself I would think. That being said, you could offset the smaller bass of that unit by bringing it closer to the front and side walls.

Agreed, but getting the most out of my 803S's is the objective. The drivers do deliver the depth I appreciate, but only when the amp is driven hard (loud). Analogous to this would be the difference between a normaly aspirated engine and a blown one. I suspect (hope) that the 9B-SST could "boost" the output of my speakers, without blowing them up, during peak demands. This is the goal and it seems your evaluation is demonstrating that it is possible.

In consideration of a 6B SST, the SPL calculator does a good job of pointing out that an increase from 120 Watts to 350 Watts is only around 4-5 dB. So the power of the amp shouldn't be an issue, they match up perfectly well, but I wouldn't go crazy and turn it up past 107 dB to test the calculator or the amp. I personally have never needed my system over 90 dB at my sitting position, that is, before testing it out for the thread. The unfortunate problem is that you will likely be bass limited by the speaker itself no matter which amplifier you use (which is why I chose the 802D over the 803D). You could always suppliment it with a sub if that ends up being a problem.

I know. Then again I would be faced with the same issue no matter what speakers I chose. This of course being able to get the most out of them.

To be honest, I haven't noticed any difference between when I switched from bi-amped to just bi-wired. Bryston makes very solid amplifiers, and to me this is just more proof that the person who sold it to me nudged me in the right direction instead of trying to talk me into something much more expensive which I didn't need. To be fair though, the sales rep said I might want to bi-amp my 802Ds when when I traded in my 7 series surround system for them. Nothing should cause the amp to run out of power till I reach over 107 dB, which is a number I am not even close to approaching because I don't listen to music at over 100 dB.

In other words, given your experience with the 9B-SST and your 802D's (non-bi-amped, non-bridged), you have no hesitation in suggesting that the 9B-SST would work well with the 803S's?

[JKalman]

Agreed, but getting the most out of my 803S's is the objective. The drivers do deliver the depth I appreciate, but only when the amp is driven hard (loud). Analogous to this would be the difference between a normaly aspirated engine and a blown one. I suspect (hope) that the 9B-SST could "boost" the output of my speakers, without blowing them up, during peak demands. This is the goal and it seems your evaluation is demonstrating that it is possible.


I know. Then again I would be faced with the same issue no matter what speakers I chose. This of course being able to get the most out of them.


In other words, given your experience with the 9B-SST and your 802D's (non-bi-amped, non-bridged), you have no hesitation in suggesting that the 9B-SST would work well with the 803S's?

I would hesitate for a few reasons.

The first is that I don't have a reference point for the 803S (only the 800Ds, 802Ds, 803Ds and the 802Ss). I am not sure what its sensitivity level is either, if it is 90, then you could expect similar final dB SPL results.

The second is the technical nature of these two speakers. I can't guarantee that the differences between the 802D and the 803S aren't so large that any comparisons made might not be accurate enough to gauge the 803S's real performance. You might not find that the 803S is duplicating what you expected at a louder noise level. I also hesitate here because for me, turning up the volume too high lessens my enjoyment of the music (mostly because my wife is likely going to throw open my office door and scream at me, lol).

Finally, I don't want to be responsible if you don't find what you are looking for, i.e. in case your subjective experience was not what you were expecting. Truthfully, the only way I would not hesitate is if you were to listen to the 803S speakers through the Bryston 9B SST and say, "I love it!"

I will say this though, you know how high up in volume you can push the Bryston 9B SST, so it is mostly a matter of whether it will give you the desired result before you hit that miximum value or not. This I do not know, since I am not you and can't be certain what sound power level you are trying to attain with the Bryston 9B SST pairing to achieve the effect you are trying to achieve. I do think the 9B SST will work well with the 803S, but I can't be certain it will give you exactly what you want. I think the 9B SST would work well with most speakers based on previous stated information.

I do love my Bryston 9B SST though, and recommend it, but I can't be certain it will give anyone what they are looking for, which is why doing demos is so important. I wish I could be more helpful than that, but lacking any reference between the two speakers, it is impossible for me not to hesitate (and even if I did have a reference, I can't guarantee our subjective sense of music aesthetics match up). I ultimately don't want you to be unhappy with your decision.

The nice thing about Bryston (besides build quality) is the twenty year transferable warranty, so, worse comes to worse, you could always turn it around and sell it real quick at a nominal fee. It is too bad you do not live near a store that will let you bring one home for a day or two and demo it with your system. Have you checked into online stores that may have a 30 day return policy (Crutchfield), or perhaps Magnolia might carry them, they too have 30 day return policy?

One thing you might want to contact Bryston about is their dynamic overhead. It isn't listed in my manual, so I'm not sure how much room you have at the 107dB ceiling. I would contact them myself (and perhaps I will), but I am not going near the ceiling, so it isn't really an issue. The only reason I would need to bi-amp is if I were listening at levels that were clipping the sound waves, but that isn't happening, so I discovered I don't need to bi-amp anymore (intermodular distortion could be an issue, but I havn't noticed anything terrible, and probably wouldn't without flipping back and forth in an A/B comparison--likely the Y cable adaptor was causing more sound distortion than anything else would have caused).

[JKalman]

In short, it is the difference between me recommending that someone try a piece of equipment I own vs. me telling someone to go out and blindly buy it. I wouldn't suggest anyone go out and blindly buy anything.

[JKalman]

Oh, one last thing, I was previously running B&W 703s, 705s and an HTM7 through the Bryston 9B SST, the bass definition on the 703s, while not booming, was extremely detailed and enjoyable, in case that helps at all.

[RebelMan]

Have you driven your 802D's with anything other than the 9B-SST? Did you purchase the 9B-SST at the same time you purchased your 700's? What are you going to do with your 9B-SST now or in the near future? What are your AV listening preferences (percentage of time spent)?

[RebelMan]

In short, it is the difference between me recommending that someone try a piece of equipment I own vs. me telling someone to go out and blindly buy it. I wouldn't suggest anyone go out and blindly buy anything.

That is not really the case here. I know what Bryston sounds like. What I didn't know was how well it's least performing and only (SST class) multi-channel amplifier is capable of, in practice. I know the 9B-SST can drive the 803S's. What was uncertain was how well. I've already heard the 4B-SST with the 803S's and the 6B-SST with the 802D's. I take comfort knowing that either one of these amps has the ability and headroom to deliver clean power even under heavy demand.

I can calculate all of the theoretical senarios that I want but that will only get me so far. I need real world feedback regarding the 9B-SST because my level of comfort with it is still undetermined. Even my RB-1080 has it's limits but I am less concerned with its ability than I would be with an amplifier half its size. On paper my RB-1080 delivers more power at any level than the 9B-SST does. That is not the point.

[Gump]

RebelMan,

I am also considering Bryston as an option in my search for proper electronics to run my 803D's. I assume, as thorough as you seem to be, you've already attempted to contact the dealers here in AZ (Tucson or Prescott Valley according to Bryston's website) to see if they would allow you to demo the 9B-SST? If there was a problem I'd be interested in hearing about it. It might save me some time as I planned on contacting them myself. Thanks.

[JKalman]

Have you driven your 802D's with anything other than the 9B-SST? Did you purchase the 9B-SST at the same time you purchased your 700's? What are you going to do with your 9B-SST now or in the near future? What are your AV listening preferences (percentage of time spent)?

No. I've heard the old N802s through a different Amp, but I've only heard my 802Ds bi-wired and bi-amped to the 9B SST. I had always planned on either getting a two channel amp (perhaps the 14B SST) or two monoblocks (perhaps the 7B SSTs) for the 802Ds later on, though I'm considering other options now as well. My reason for staying with Bryston on those would be to use the 9B SST for the rest of a 7.1 setup and have the whole system integrate well.

I purchased the 9B SST at the same time as I purchased the 700's and used it with that setup first.

Right now I am considering checking out the Bel Canto eVo 4 (the eVo 6 was recommended by Kal Rubinson in Stereophile Magazine as being a good match with the 802D) to see how it sounds in my system when bi-amped. I might keep the 9B SST and get a 4B SST to bi-amp the 802Ds and use the 5 channels on the 9B SST for a 7.1 setup. Perhaps I will go with the Bryston three channel 6B SST and put the bass drivers of the left, right and center speakers on the 6B SST and the rest on the 9B SST, that would probably be the best option for a 5.1 setup (and the one I will likely end up doing).

I listen to a wide range of material, from Classical to Hard-Core, from African drumming to Rap. I was listening to Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" SACD last night, Duran Duran this afternoon, and two days ago I was listening to David Bowie "Ziggy Stardust", The Grateful Dead movie soundtrack, Smashing Pumpkins "Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness", Radiohead Pablo Honey. The day before, likely, Steve Vai "Passion and Warfare, Radiohead "OK Computer", Elvis Costello's Greatest Hits, Foo Fighters, possibly The Living Classics Collection's Beethoven's 5th (maybe that was the night before), and the list can go on and one with no rhyme or reason.

[RebelMan]

I am also considering Bryston as an option in my search for proper electronics to run my 803D's. I assume, as thorough as you seem to be, you've already attempted to contact the dealers here in AZ (Tucson or Prescott Valley according to Bryston's website) to see if they would allow you to demo the 9B-SST? If there was a problem I'd be interested in hearing about it. It might save me some time as I planned on contacting them myself. Thanks.

Last time I checked, the Tucson dealer doesn't have any Bryston equipment to demo. The Prescott Valley dealer seemed to be more supportive in this regard but unfortuantely they didn't have the 9B-SST either. Both dealers seemed pleasant and willing to help but they had rather limited resources. Not to mention that neither one of them carry B&W's in their show rooms which is another problem in itself.