Which REL sub for my 805S (now) and 803D (future)?

[tboooe]

hi, i currently have the 805S and rotel rb-1080 amp. I am looking to add a REL sub to this 2 channel only setup. What do people suggest that would work with my current gear as well as work with my intended upgrade to the 803D in the near future (1 year).

thank you,

[jlee]

hi, i currently have the 805S and rotel rb-1080 amp. I am looking to add a REL sub to this 2 channel only setup. What do people suggest that would work with my current gear as well as work with my intended upgrade to the 803D in the near future (1 year).

thank you,

REL Stadium III would allow for an upgrade to 803D. Strata III would do just fine now, and in fact, still complement your 803D.

[tboooe]

jlee, can you explain to me the difference between the stadium and strata? The rel website is a little cryptic about the differences. I am not a bass head at all...I prefer tight, accurate, musical bass.

[jlee]

jlee, can you explain to me the difference between the stadium and strata? The rel website is a little cryptic about the differences. I am not a bass head at all...I prefer tight, accurate, musical bass.

The whole REL ST series is of audiophile quality. If you're looking for boom and lots of bass (that wasn't in the recording) then look elsewhere. If you're looking for the recording's true bass notes to be reproduced faithfully at the correct pitch and loudness, the REL ST series is for you. Both the Strata and Stadium are tight, accurate and musical. The Strata does everything well. It has a 100W amp and therefore if used in HT as well, will run out of gas if used to both support the main speakers and the LFE.

If purely in 2 channel, the Strata III will be very satisfactory. The stadium III does everything the Strata III does, but better. Deep bass will be a bit more pitch accurate and musical (just like you can follow the melody of treble and midrange, the Stadium will further allow you to follow the melody of the really deep bass notes better than the Strata). Both will improve the clarity of the midrange and treble by providing them the proper "acoustic foundation" for them to be heard properly. This is very hard to describe in words. You must simply experience it for yourself. The clarity of the midrange and treble when the REL is properly setup is probably more of a reward than the deep bass itself. You will find the REL even benefits songs that have very little audible bass... but put your hand near the woofer, and you will see it's still working, creating the subtle ambience cues in the recording that aren't necessarily audible, or even feelable because they are sometimes short in length.

Because they have been discontinued in North America (still available in the UK, as well as the Storm 5 and Strata 5, which are available only in the UK), you will only be able to find them used on Audiogon or other sites. I would personally recommend a Strata 3 to start. You will suffer very little if any loss once you resell it. Experience the Strata 3, get used to it... then when u get the Stadium 3, you will appreciate it more.

[Stevebez]

I suggest before you go-ahead you look at another forum for some interesting reading.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=50&rid=5729&SQ=1123499690

Rgds Steve.

[Lex]

REL are good subs, the discussion of which either belongs in audio or the manufacturers section, not Club B & W guys. Unless it comes up ever so casually, not a separate post. Even though you integrate them with B & W, that does not make them B & W. The key is, they can be integrated with many other brands of speakers as well, and have nothing to do with B & W...

[tboooe]

sorry Lex but I respectfully disagree with you. This question absolutely has to be in this forum because the sub will be integrated with my bw speakers. As you know, all audio compenents interact with one another so a change somewhere in the chain could have a profound affect on the music. I want to know the feedback from actual bw users as to how adding a REL sub has changed their listenting dynamic. There is no way I can get this feedback if this question was posted as a generic, "what REL sub". If I was talking about getting a component that operated in vacuum and has absolutely no interaction and thus affect on my system then absolutely, it should be asked as general audio question.

[tboooe]

stevebez:

thanks for the link. great site. however, I have no idea what all of that data means. I am not a technical audiophile. All I know is what sounds good. So according to these tests, are the RELs good?

[Shane Martin]

are the RELs good?

The distortion #'s were awful high on them. The don't do well with low bass either. The biggest plus for a Rel sub would be its integration.

Here are some of the numbers which flat out look AWFUL.

Not quite infinity, but the 90dB sweep reaches 360% THD at 20Hz and the 95dB sweep reaches about 600% THD!

This means a 90db testtone at 20hz, the rel stampede reached 360% Total Harmonic Distortion. At 95% the distortion gets worse and goes up to 600%.

A HSU or a Velodyne would them for lunch.

[kylek100]

Lex, I respectfully disagree as well. I do not come here to talk to people that own other brands of speakers. I come here to talk to people that own B&W's. If he's interested in what sub to get to match some 803D's, then what's the problem with him asking people that actually have experience doing such a thing? It has everything to do with B&W. Different speakers sound different just as different subs sound different, and some integrate better with each other. I'm not, as I'm sure he's not, interested in hearing what some guy and his lousy Klipsch towers has to say about what sub is best. I think the very fact he asked here should show you that he's not really interested in everyone else's opinion. So come on, why are you so dictatorial with what we talk about? I frankly don't care if everyone else in the forum can read a discussion about subs.

This forum is simply TOO LARGE to do what you're asking. People come on here and they get comfortable and begin to trust the people's advice they're chatting with. The last thing I want to do after working all day is have to organize where I might make my next post just so it jives with how you want everyone to act. If it's something about a DVD player, yeah then I'll probably ask in the home theater forum just to increase my response rate. But I don't think that tboooe is trying to get a large quantity of responses, but rather QUALITY. And he can only get this quality by talking to people that have experience. The only RELEVANT experience exists within the B&W club.

[kylek100]

Anyway, on another note. I don't really know much about REL subs, but I can tell you my experience with velodyne, which I HIGHLY recommend. You said you're not a bass head, and neither am I. I bought a Velodyne digital drive 10 because it has virtually no distortion, and is agile and powerful enough to deliver the tight and clean bass you are looking for. It also goes down to 18hz +/- 3, so you won't be lacking in the lower end.

With the digital drive management system you will be able to perfectly integrate it with either the 803D's or the 805S. I have used my DD-10 on my 602 S3's and have recently demoed a pair of 805S's, it sounds incredible on both, and really gives the 805S the lower end extension they need (since I think the 805S only goes down to about 49hz).

I don't know what price point you were looking at, but the digital drive is worth every single penny if you're looking for really tight bass. You are able to adjust the servo on it manually and if you leave it cranked up high (16,500 measurements per second), it'll leave you with exactly what you want to hear.

Let me know if you have any questions, but if anything I've really found the room equalization an integral part in creating an effective and smooth integration between your fronts and the sub.

[tboooe]

Kyle, thanks for the response. Yes, I was looking at Velodyne as well. One thing about the REL is that I can send the speaker level input directly to the sub. I am not using a prepro so I dont have an LFE signal to send the sub. My system is very basic:

CD >> Preamp >> amp >> speakers.

Do you have any suggestions on this setup? If there is a way I can work this out then I will definitely look at the velodynes as I have heard nothing but wonderful things about them.

Thanks again for your feedback (and support)

tommy

[scottielee]

the velodyne dd series also has speaker level input, as well as line level rca inputs and mono xlr input.

[tboooe]

thanks scottielee...one thing that intimidates me is all of the parameters that can be programmed. did you find it difficult to setup your dd12? i have the 805S so i would be interested in getting your feedback regarding the velodynes. did you listen to other subs before getting the dd12? what made you pick that one?

[bigburner]

One thing about the REL is that I can send the speaker level input directly to the sub.

My system is very basic:

CD >> Preamp >> amp >> speakers.

tboooe, why do you want a sub that accepts speaker-level input from your amp? If you connect your sub this way how are you going to provide the crossover to send the lower frequencies to your sub and the higher frequencies to your mains? Surely this will be important if you keep the 805s for a while?

[Stevebez]

tboooe,

I had a REL Quake - really tiny and actually not bad for a ... well mini-sub. But its a £300 unit - you pretty much get what you pay for. Not much below 25hz really so not true sub - was fine when I had Boston Micros all round. Fair match in that company.

Now I got 803D's and needed to up the ante - have now got Velodyne DD12 - cannot compare to REL ito price (almost 8x as much) but then its a 12" driver 1250watt rms and digital servo ... so much easier to integrate with its mic calibratiion etc ... anyhow with 803D's its musical bliss ... 803's perhaps lacking in the low down regions that the 802's etc are better at. Have cross over set to 60hz and there's no focal point on the sub at all ... seamless and tight bass. But then I am one who enjoys a sub with his music ... and no I am not one of those who has a monster sub in his car ... who goes bouncing down the road at 100hz per hour. Best way to get accurate bass is with a good sub - period.

Using sub with music on 803's gives my Rotel RB1080 a bit more headroom as its under spec for the 803's ... and actually helps mids ... the main thing is the sub allows you to calibrate the lower region sound field to get a flat response 120hz and down to 15hz in-room (within 3db peak to trough). It gets so sensitive in the bass region that leaving a room door open or moving furniture around alters your response more significantly than I ever would have guessed.

Edit: Which begs the question just how important is accurate low down bass then anyway if such small changes can affect the soundfield that much ...!!???

Also, amazing how much room dynamics affect the bass region sounds ... each room has a definite "signature" - which, unless you can calibrate your sub, will result in colouration of sorts. Maybe this is why the large B&W units affect the soundstage so dramatically when moved around.

Bottom line very happy with the Velo and the calibration it allows. Then again YMMV.

Regards Steve.

[Lex]

Guys, you can respectfully disagree with me, however, you have to abide by the subject rules of the forum, continuing on after I flagged the discussion is neither respecting me or this forum's rules-


Now, it could be that we can come up with a workable solution, however, starting sub threads about other brands of subs is NOT that solution-

I'll be talking to Geoff about this, and what he implements will be how it is.