Spikes "do" Make A Difference !!

[misterdoggy]

TO: xk8boy

You are definitely correct and the first person I spoke to at B&W wasn't sure and wanted me to talk to someone who wasn't there, but my contact there confirmed to me today what you said was right. I had said in my post before that I always pay attention when someone says they hear a difference and you had good reason.

My B&W person said, ........."We would expect the spikes to improve the overall performance of the speakers as the spikes reduce the surface area that the speaker sits on the floor.

This reduction means its coupling to the floor is very small, you may experience a tighter bass performance, reduced transfer of energy to the floor, tightening focus and cleaning up the higher frequencies.

I've always noticed a difference using spikes......" :T

[audioqueso]

Yes, funny little things. They make a great improvement in the overall balance. Just yesterday I showed my wife what the 805 sounded like with and without the spikes on the stands and just went 'ohhhhhh!".

[Andorian]

Hi,

I have experienced different results with the spikes and 803D,
Indeed they improve the bass reponse, no doubt about that, yet they influence the midrange rather negatively (which is allready mildly affected). So I removed them again, (two times).

ps, I bite the dust :cry: , and shifted to the 802D ;x( (within two weeks) , One more reason to move soner.
Andor.

[tboooe]

audioqueso:

Currently, my 805s and stands are on hardwood, so I dont think the wife will appreciate me putting the spikes on. I am using the little rubber feet that came with the stands. Doesnt this have the same affect since the stands are only touching the ground at 4 points? Granted they are rubber which means the surface area is a little larger than 4 pinpoint spikes.

Can you elaborate on what improvements or differences you heard when going to spike?

[xk8boy]

misterdoggy, anything to help a fellow audiophile. which is why we can find great forums like this one on the net. Will you be spiking your speakers now, know this?

Andorian, welcome to the 802D club. you wont regret it - well until you see your credit card balance. haha.

tboooe, you should be able to find lots of gizmos that you can put between your wooden floor and speaker spikes, just do a search. As an experiment you can put a coin or two on each corner between the spikes and floor. just use some double sided tape to stop them moving about.

[misterdoggy]

Position is everything

misterdoggy, anything to help a fellow audiophile. which is why we can find great forums like this one on the net. Will you be spiking your speakers now, know this?

Yeah, they didn't come with the speakers and I've called my contact and he will order them. Just as well, as I am still playing with position and I'll need a couple of weeks before the definitive placement is established.

Already, I've toed them in and like it more. I don't think spreading them further than 3-4 meter apart would be good, both for losing the center image in stereo, and also, too far away for HT effects to be effective. I think 1 meter away from each side of the screen works best for me, and slightly toed in. But thats not final. :tv:

[audioqueso]

tboooe,
I haven't tried the rubber feet. I actually tried rubber feet with some old Infinity's and didn't hear any improvement so ever since then I've always left the rubber feet in the bag. The biggest improvement that I hear in using spikes on the stands is the lower frequency. There is so much more definition and control with the bass. The upper frequencies become silkier, but not as much of a difference as with the low freqs. If you listen to one song in whole without spikes, and then listen to the whole song again with spikes, you'll hear and see the difference.

[Stockinv]

My 802's have wheels on the bottom. If I went to spikes, would the wheels come off, or would they sit above the floor? The wheels make it very convenient to move the heavy speakers, but I wonder if I'm losing performance?

[misterdoggy]

Stockinv
In the booklet it shows you how to take off the rollers and replace them. You need a friend thats for sure. I'm wondering too. The convenience of rolling them around is nice. Then again we've got kids around (large ones 17 and 20) and if they were on spikes they wouldn't get moved ever again.

[sikoniko]

Im wondering if there is a difference between the rollers and spikes on the bottom of 802's.

[caleb]

I used the rollers on my 802's just for getting the positioning exactly right before changing to the spikes.

Put some masking tape at the four corners before you do the conversion so you get them back into the correct position.

Changing from castors to spikes takes about 20 minutes per speaker but worth the effort.

[georgev]

What exactly were the differences you heard Caleb?
George.

[tboooe]

Just curious if people thought spikes would make difference on carpet?

[gauss]

What size are the spikes on the 800 series (i.e. M6, M8 or other). I have had good experience with other speakers using a specific brand of spikes that I want to try with my new 803S when they arrive.

[Adz]

I can't wait to find out just what a difference they make on carpet for my over 150 lb Def tech 7000s! I just ordered these bad boys.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/images/TCPboth.jpg

[tboooe]

"My B&W person said, ........."We would expect the spikes to improve the overall performance of the speakers as the spikes reduce the surface area that the speaker sits on the floor.

This reduction means its coupling to the floor is very small, you may experience a tighter bass performance, reduced transfer of energy to the floor, tightening focus and cleaning up the higher frequencies."

just curious: if you were to use spikes on carpet then wouldnt the spikes have to be taller than the carpet shag? Otherwise, the base of the speaker will be in contact with the carpet though only touching the surface vs sitting all of its weight but wont this negate the affect of the spikes? No matter how light the base is touching or sitting on the carpet, it is still touching. I assume the spikes help channel the vibration to four points vs across the entire surface area of the speaker base and this somehow helps increase sound quality. Am I right in thinking that even if the base is only slightly touching the carpet instead of putting all of its weight on the carpet that the surface area in contact is the same? Am I missing something?

[Stockinv]

What would you suggest for a stone floor? Would you use the spikes sitting on some type of pads or would you use the hard rubber feet?

[Kyle]

I use these in conjunction with the spikes on my 603s3, and they are great.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=QUADQS4&product_name=Quadraspire%20Floor%20Protective%20Discs%20-%20Set%20of%204

[caleb]

What would you suggest for a stone floor? Would you use the spikes sitting on some type of pads or would you use the hard rubber feet?

If you use spikes on a stone or tile floor, a small coin unde the spikes will stop tile damage.

[caleb]

I can't wait to find out just what a difference they make on carpet for my over 150 lb Def tech 7000s! I just ordered these bad boys.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/twe...es/TCPboth.jpg

Spikes are even more important on carpet as they get the speaker directly onto to firmer substrate - you should hear a tighter bass with your spokes,

BTW these ARE bad boys! !

[caleb]

What exactly were the differences you heard Caleb?
George.

Hi George,

The bass was tighter - less bloated - not a huge difference I must add - but still audible.

[caleb]

I use these in conjunction with the spikes on my 603s3, and they are great.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...20Set%20of%204

These look identical to the floor protectors that came with my 802's.

For use with the spikes on wooden or tile floors to stop damage.

[jlee]

just curious: if you were to use spikes on carpet then wouldnt the spikes have to be taller than the carpet shag? Otherwise, the base of the speaker will be in contact with the carpet though only touching the surface vs sitting all of its weight but wont this negate the affect of the spikes? No matter how light the base is touching or sitting on the carpet, it is still touching. I assume the spikes help channel the vibration to four points vs across the entire surface area of the speaker base and this somehow helps increase sound quality. Am I right in thinking that even if the base is only slightly touching the carpet instead of putting all of its weight on the carpet that the surface area in contact is the same? Am I missing something?
----------------------------------------
You are correct. In order for the spikes to have proper affect, they would need to penetrate the carpet fully and actually "spike into" the wood below to keep them still. If they don't, they can still rock around. The GOAL is to keep the speaker as still as possible. This improves midrange and high freq. clarity because the speaker itself is not going back and forth while the drivers are going back and forth... secondly, it reduces vibration, which in itself makes "sound" from the cabinet and colors the overall sound by ADDING sound not originally in the source. That is one reason you'll get "tighter" bass... because the affect of the "additional" bass will be less...

The IDEAL setup (which I have not yet tried) is to make a really heavy plinth out of granite, a custom attachment to the speaker, and THEN... a rod extending from the back of the FST screw found on 804 and up Nautilus to the wall... that should be an interesting experiment when I get the time to do it.

[tboooe]

jlee...since my 805S stands are filled with lead shot (so they weigh at least 70 including the speaker), do you think I still need to use the spikes? If the only point of spikes is to keep the speaker from moving, then I think my setup accomplishes that. I am wondering though, how do the spikes help with speaker movement and vibration on a solid surface? How is it different from the speaker base itself? Other than focusing the weight onto 4 spikes, I really dont see how spikes help.

[caleb]

jlee...If the only point of spikes is to keep the speaker from moving, then I think my setup accomplishes that.

The reason for spikes is not to stop the speaker from moving, but to channel the energy down onto points instead of spreading it over a larger area.

[jlee]

The reason for spikes is not to stop the speaker from moving, but to channel the energy down onto points instead of spreading it over a larger area.

That too Forgot to mention that...

[jlee]

jlee...since my 805S stands are filled with lead shot (so they weigh at least 70 including the speaker), do you think I still need to use the spikes? If the only point of spikes is to keep the speaker from moving, then I think my setup accomplishes that. I am wondering though, how do the spikes help with speaker movement and vibration on a solid surface? How is it different from the speaker base itself? Other than focusing the weight onto 4 spikes, I really dont see how spikes help.

Well, the only thing I can think of for now is this... with the base of the speaker, if it's not perfectly flat... or if the surface it sits on is not perfectly flat... then you can get these miniscule "rocking" motions between it and the surface. If the rocking motions are large enough, this can translate into vibration sounds that color the music. With a 3 spike system, you get perfect balance. With 4 "legs" it's a bit harder. You may need to adjust it such that it doesn't "rock." Some guy posted some pics of some really good spikes for hardwood floors a while back. They had rubber feet, but had spikes between the feet and the speaker.

I do not have experience with how spikes help on a solid surface, so I will let somebody else answer that. However, based on my experience with a carpet system (and dealer advice and feedback) one of the main purposes of the spike was to keep the speaker still. I found the B&W stock spikes for the 804 basically suck... I tried the sound anchor stands and they were great. I didn't like them for other reasons though, so currently I have my 804's on granite slabs. The slabs are heavy enough to essentially not rock on the carpet... next, I have 4 pieces of "blue dot" tack between the speaker and granite. Although it can rock a BIT (due to the give of the tack), it provided 95% of the performance of the sound anchors... but was WAY better than using the stock B&W spikes on the carpet.

One test you can do is the following: try to rock the speaker back and forth by pushing on the back of the speaker. It should require a reasonable amount of effort to "move" the speaker. If the speaker is easily moved, AND ESPECIALLY if it can move back and then continue to "rock" before it settles in position, you need to do something about it.

[georgev]

How easy/difficult is it for one person to change the wheels to the spikes?
george.

[caleb]

How easy/difficult is it for one person to change the wheels to the spikes?
george.

Hi George, its a piece of cake really.

You just need to get the speaker onto it's front (put a mat under the speaker to avoid damage), this may take the help of a friend as they are bloody heavy for one person to lift safely.

An allen key then is used to remove the wheels, and to fit the spike holders in the place of the wheels.
.
BTW the "wedge" goes to the outside of the hole, NOT into the hole.

You then screw the spikes in but only finger tight.

When you then get the speaker upright again, you will use the small bar provided to level the speaker by screwing in or out the spikes.

I used a spirit level to make sure they were level front/back and side.

I hope this helps.