Chance to get N805: should I?

[corysmith01]

I've come across a deal where the dealer is looking to unload his N805's since they're discontinued. He's selling them for $1600 a pair. I've always loved these speakers, but thought them out of my budget at $2000 + tax. Thus, I'm running dm601's, which I'm quite pleased with. Again, I don't have loads of cash, but I do know a good deal when I see one...at least I think I do, and I'm thinking $400 off list is a good deal. So here's how I've rationalized it. They're $1600; I'd sell my 601's for $350, which brings them down to $1250; plus, I just recently had a birthday and my fianceé committed money to that which has not been spent...to the tune of $300. Take that off and we're looking at $950 out of pocket. My question is, will I see SIGNIFICANT improvement in my sound, or does that not really happen until I move from bookshelves up to floorstanders? I am running a decent receiver (Marantz SR8400), I am running a sub (SVS PB10-ISD) and down the road do hope to add a 2 channel amp via my pre-out on the receiver, so they will be connected to (relatively) decent gear. My fear though is that I'll spend $950 and not really feel like I got a lot more speaker. Now, I know that sounds weird being that the Nautilus series is a serious cut above the 600...but, I guess I'm just looking for comfort/vindication. Again, it all comes down to not having tons of expendable cash vs. loving the N805's and feeling like this is a really good deal. What do the rest of my B&W folks think about this? Thanks for your thoughts/opinions.

[jwakaruk]

I would say go for it, you know you want to. I was in a similar situation a few years back and upgraded from 602's to old 704's then the N804's and haven't regretted it for a second. The N805's are very sweet bookshelf speakers and sound as good as they look. One thing to keep in mind though is to give them a good amplifier. The thing I like about the nautilus series is that I finally felt like my speaker search was over. The upgrade bug for everything else is a different story however.

[caleb]

You won't regret this move, although because they are discontinued 25% off is only what I would expect for e new pair anyway.

What I am trying to say is the dealer is only giving you a "reasonable deal" and not a bargain.

[RebelMan]

I say go for it too. By the way, what are you plans for stands?

[Ash]

The N805 are great speakers, you'll love them. However try to push the price a little bit.

[ti33er]

I agree, that is too much for them to be a good deal, it is a relative average shop price - I sold my N805s which were under a year old and in PERFECT condition for £850 (cost £1400 and still had 2 year warranty remaining)

PS. If you are going to spend that kind of money I am sure you could find a decent pair of N804's for around that or just a little bit more - there is quite a jump to the N804's IMO, much more bass and wider sounding soundstage - I have seen N804's go on eBay for around £1200-1400 recently?

[Rolex]

I agree, 1600 is way too much to pay. I'd think more like 1400. I bought a used pair from my dealer a while back and paid 1250 plus tax, that was without pushing him on price. He can do better on price for you. Also, watch audiogon for a better deal than that if your dealer doesn't want to budge.

[Mark_C.]

I agree, 1600 is way too much to pay. I'd think more like 1400. I bought a used pair from my dealer a while back and paid 1250 plus tax,

So, we've gone from go get 'em to you're getting boned in two days. Hmmm. Just about right for the internet. For those that think he's not getting a good price, remember there is a difference between used and demo. To the original poster: do these speakers come with full warranty? Are you buying as new with the option to trade up in a year with full credit?

[corysmith01]

Yeah, these are new stock, in the box, unopened with warranty. In terms of a trade-in policy, i'd have to check. It's a really weird and winding story. Basically, I saw a guy selling some on ebay (cause I'm constantly looking for N805's) and he had posted his original receipt. That receipt showed they were purchased recently. Being that no dealer in my area has any left, I decided to e-mail this store. I'm in VA, the store is in NY. I got an e-mail back from them saying that yes, they do have some, and yes they are selling them for $1600. So, I haven't talked about trade-in yet. Also, I understand what everyone is saying about pushing him a little. The weird thing for me though is a) I can't talk to him in person...I'm 400 miles away, and b) I can't find these things anywhere and don't know that I'd every be able to locate a brand new pair in the box since they're discontinued. I guess I'm wondering, is it worth it to try and push him and have the communication go sour...again, I can't just hop in the car and visit him as he's out of state? Or, is it a price that says, "hey, you've been looking for these unsuccessfully, now you've found them and they're new at $400 off...jump on them!" I'm sort of torn now...mostly because it seems like maybe this isn't as quite a good deal as I initially suspected. Further input would be appreciated.

[aphexist]

This is a good price for a pair of new-in-box N805s and is around the cost that dealers were asking for their floor models after the new 800 series came out. Dealers will not cut you 25% off retail on a current B&W model unless they are desperate for sales. Nevertheless, I would try for $1500. It is not a scorching hot deal, but it is a respectable bargain.

Someone mentioned that you should be able to find a pair of N804 for this price. That is simply not true. If you have a source, please share.

[mr_m687]

If you buy a product out of state you shouldn't have to pay sales tax!

[audioqueso]

Cory, I just had the same exact transition. I had the 601s running off of a Marantz SR6400 (100x6). I sold them cause I received a pair of N805s. Was there a significant improvement? YES! I started out at first with a full 600 series surround setup (601 front, 600 rear, LCR60 center) but after I moved I had no space for my rears so I sold my rears, then my center, and I was down to only my front pairs.

Going from a 2-channel 601 setup to the 805 was a big jump. Properly setup, they no longer sound like a box speaker. (I'm gonna get a woody talking about it lol). A few notes though. The SR6400 did not have enough power to feed the woofer. The bass was lacking at first because of that, but I ended up bi-amping them (A&B channels). This really brought out the bass. The 601s did have more 'thumping' bass, but no where as precise as the 805 do. Especially with jazz. I love setting down and listening to my speakers now. Sometimes I will sit for hours just listening... seriously.

I just ordered my Rotel 2-channel amp (200x2) and will receive it Friday. I will use my Marantz as a pre-amp. So it's kinda like the same thing you want to do. I don't have a sub right now, but actually looking at the same sub you have right now (but a 12'). Another thing is that if set up properly, these speakers will add some incredible surround sound with movies. The sound stage is just huge. But they're crying for more power so I will let you know how much of a difference it makes going from the Marantz power to the power from the Rotel. Let me know if you have any questions.

[turbokuo]

I agree, that is too much for them to be a good deal, it is a relative average shop price - I sold my N805s which were under a year old and in PERFECT condition for £850 (cost £1400 and still had 2 year warranty remaining)

PS. If you are going to spend that kind of money I am sure you could find a decent pair of N804's for around that or just a little bit more - there is quite a jump to the N804's IMO, much more bass and wider sounding soundstage - I have seen N804's go on eBay for around £1200-1400 recently?

I completely agree with ti33er. The N805 to N804 is one of the biggest leaps in SQ. Remember this is not a 805S to 804S comparison...don't get the two confused.

[audioqueso]

Sorry, I can't agree with that. 805 to 804. More bass, of course. Wider soundstage, yes. But I wouldn't say a jump in SQ. But it is a better choice for 2-channel music. But at the same time, you also have a nice sub already. I wouldn't say the jump is as big as going from the 803 to 802. But for the price of a used 804 that is a better deal.

[turbokuo]

Sorry, I can't agree with that. 805 to 804. More bass, of course. Wider soundstage, yes. But I wouldn't say a jump in SQ. But it is a better choice for 2-channel music. But at the same time, you also have a nice sub already. I wouldn't say the jump is as big as going from the 803 to 802. But for the price of a used 804 that is a better deal.

Ummm....you forgot that the N804 has a better SOUNDING FST midrange driver identical to the one in my 802 Marlan Head, sure does sound like better SQ. For HT, the N804 could be overkill, so for 2 channel, get the N804. Anyway drop me an email Cory if you are interested in the new 805S. I can get them shipped to your door at a substantial discount.

[caleb]

turbokuo
FST midrange driver identical to the one in my 802 Marlan Head

This is just not true,

The FST in the 805 and the 802 are totally different.

Different size and different cone excursion and different range.

[turbokuo]

turbokuo
FST midrange driver identical to the one in my 802 Marlan Head

This is just not true,

The FST in the 805 and the 802 are totally different.

Different size and different cone excursion and different range.

Hey Caleb, I think you read it wrong. I was saying that the N804 FST midrange is the same as the N802 FST midrange.

[caleb]

Sorry - my mistake

[audioqueso]

Well... back to the original questions (lol)... should you get the 805 with your setup? Yes. For $1600 new, that's a good deal. But for $1600, you might be able to get a used pair of 804 which is a better choice.

Don't know how the 804 do with just an A/V receiver, but I gave you my review of the 805 with a very similar Marantz receiver. But as you said, $1600 is more than you're willing to spend, but you don't want to miss such an opportunity. I'd say do it. You'll be very happy. You won't regret it.

One last thing. Don't forget that you will need to spend extra money for good speaker stands and better cables/speaker wire. So don't forget to put that into consideration.

[Rolex]

You will NOT be able to find a pair of Nautilus 804's for 1600/pair. Unless they are severly damaged, it just won't happen. They are on the used market now for atleast 2200. Plus shipping.

[ti33er]

Gents, I don't want to start a debacle but I have seen N804's go for £1400 on eBay a little while ago (apparently great condition, maybe a minor cosmetic scratch or two if anything?) - I had been tracking a lot of Nautilus sales to see what I could expect for my ex. N805's... I am in the UK and have been on www.ebay.co.uk only so not certain what US ebay items are going for but I would imagine a trend in price ratio?

PS. I really dont think that N804's --> 802D's are overkill for HT, in fact they are stupendous...I am pretty sure Caleb will back me up seeing as he is going for 4 x 802D's + HTM1D apparently in an average to large size room!

PPS. 805's do require speaker stands and when I bought mine opted initially for generic speaker stands, but when I saw the originals I couldn't resist as they just match so well (other stands just looked goofy in comparrison) and had to slap down the hard earned cash and buy them - they cost me £400 so add that to the cost and you are not far off 804's. Next time I will definitely go for full length speakers (804S or higher), you can't really beat them with bookshelves unfortunately...this is my opinion of course, you are entitled to your own.

[Rolex]

Stands can be a delicate issue with some people. You can buy the matching B&W stands for the 805's. I've had all three (805, Sig 805, and 805S). I built some custom stands that have a similar appearance. However, the stands that B&W produces were designed by a senior in college as a final project. They designed more for looks than for sound quality. If you step up to something like Sound Anchors, which is acutally less money than the matching B&W stands, I think you'll notice a difference in sound quality. You will not, however, have the same apppearance.

I'm all for monitor speakers myself. I had the 805S and the 804S in my room at the same time. While I prefered the sound of the 804S, I came to the decision that, for me, it was not worth the extra money to upgrade to the 804S. Yes, it did have to do with the fact that the 804S requires better amplification than the 805S, and I could not provide that. But, it is still my feeling that the 805S imaged better, in my room, than the 804S. Imaging to me, is the most important aspect of listening. Much more so than having accurate bass.

[aphexist]

Gents, I don't want to start a debacle but I have seen N804's go for £1400 on eBay a little while ago (apparently great condition, maybe a minor cosmetic scratch or two if anything?) - I had been tracking a lot of Nautilus sales to see what I could expect for my ex. N805's... I am in the UK and have been on www.ebay.co.uk

I think we have a minor misunderstanding. You are referering to UK Pounds and we are referring to US dollars. According to a currency calculator, your £1400 = $2547.

In happy news, I landed a pair of natural cherry Nautilus 805 with accompanying silver stands on Audiogon for $1400 (£769) shipped to my door. I am very pleased. The circle (804 + HTM1 + 805) is now complete!

[turbokuo]

I'm all for monitor speakers myself. I had the 805S and the 804S in my room at the same time. While I prefered the sound of the 804S, I came to the decision that, for me, it was not worth the extra money to upgrade to the 804S. Yes, it did have to do with the fact that the 804S requires better amplification than the 805S, and I could not provide that. But, it is still my feeling that the 805S imaged better, in my room, than the 804S. Imaging to me, is the most important aspect of listening. Much more so than having accurate bass.

Rolex,

Yes, B&W significantly closed the large N805 to N804 gap with the new 800 series. I was impressed with new 805S, it's a much tougher call now.

What's your take on the Sig 805 vs 805S? I've spent about 3 1/2 hours comparing the two and find myself liking the sound of the 805S but the looks of the Bird 's Eye finish of the Sigs .

[RebelMan]

To me the 804S is clearly better than the 805S. Mostly in imaging and soundstaging. The 805S's were boxy sounding in comparison. I spent about 2-4 hours comparing the two (on more than one occasion) and no matter how much I tried I had more adjustment problems with the 805S's than the 804S's.

Funny thing is, I was rooting for the 805S's because I actually prefer bookshelf speakers and they were, of course, less expensive. And when you factor in the price for the B&W stands, the 804S was the clear winner to me.

[Rolex]

Turbokuo, I think I really prefer the Sign 805 over the 805S. I think they sound quite similar, but like you, I love the look of the sig finish. Now, if we can just convince B&W to put the diamond tweeter in the 805, then we'd be on to something!!

Rebelman, if you read my post above, you'll see that I agree with you. The 804S does sound better, but for me, and in my room, it didn't sound 1500 dollars better. And I still prefered the imaging of the 805S over the 804S. I'm hooked on the sound of a monitor style speaker.

[RebelMan]

Rolex, I read your post and if it were going to cost me $1500.00 more to move up in the line I would probably agree with you. But when you factor in the stands ($600.00 pair for the B&W's) and any discounts (20%) the difference is much smaller, more like $720.00 A definite bargin in my case. Needless to say, I did get the SCMS's!

[turbokuo]

Turbokuo, I think I really prefer the Sign 805 over the 805S. I think they sound quite similar, but like you, I love the look of the sig finish. Now, if we can just convince B&W to put the diamond tweeter in the 805, then we'd be on to something!!

Rebelman, if you read my post above, you'll see that I agree with you. The 804S does sound better, but for me, and in my room, it didn't sound 1500 dollars better. And I still prefered the imaging of the 805S over the 804S. I'm hooked on the sound of a monitor style speaker.

It was at a tough call for me too and on some songs I like the Sig 805 and other songs the 805S. Hehe, if they buid a Sig 805D in Bird's Eye, it would be unreal!!!

[george_k]

The price difference between the 805S including stands and the 804S from my dealer is about $1850 CDN (or $1475 USD or 800 GBP)

Does the 804S really sound that much better to warrant the significant (IMO) difference in cost?

[caleb]

Rolex.
At the B&W launch in Cape Town I asked exactly that question - why no diamond tweeter in the 805?

Answer was that the sheer cost of the diamond tweeter would make the 805 non cometitive with other speakers in the range.

[VanHamp]

I hope this is not off subject, but want opinions from 805 experts.
I visited a dealer yesterday and saw the new 805's. One thing I noticed
about the mid range driver was that the phase plug was incorporated
into the driver. My 805's however have a metal phase plug that
is stationary, and the cone moves apart from it. The new version
seems cheaper construction but more money. What difference could this make if any? Thanks

[Rolex]

I noticed the same thing. But, IMO, the 805S sounds quite a bit better than the N805. The Sig 805 has a phase plug as well. I guess they just decided they didn't need it in that driver.

Caleb, I figured that would be the case about the 805, just too much money. But, I'll bet in a couple years, when they figure out how to produce the diamond for less money, they will be putting it in the 805 as a signature line. Remember, it takes B&W about two years AFTER the release of a new line to follow up with a signature line. Atleast in the case of the introduction of the Nautilus line. I'll bet we'll see some version of a Signature 805S in about a year and a half. May or may not have a diamond tweeter in it.

[RobP]

You know, its too bad that B&W does not offer upgrade kits for the Nautilus range (tweeter, crossover, etc..) That would be a nice addition to those of us who own the Nautilus line and dont want to sell our current models just to get a few extra perks. Wilson Audio does this all of the time. But as far as company size goes Wilson is no B&W. I love my N803,s but I would enjoy the option of being able to tweek them a little. Any thoughts?

[Mark_C.]

After all this discussion about this and that, I don't think it's clear whether the original poster actually did anything one way or another. Or did I miss something?

[T_Rex]

B&W signature line

Rolex,

As I understand it, B&W make their Signature products to commemorate the passing of John Bowers, and their introduction has little to do with timing of other products. I think they get a reminder on the calendar and then they start tweaking whatever is on the production line at the time...

Also, the Signature finish of the Sig 800's took about 6 days to make, and with current workloads on the new 800 series, I'm sure a new Signature finish is the last thing on their minds...

Have a good day.

[Rolex]

T Rex, I emailed someone at B&W and he said they are doing just fine with the production of the new 800 series. I doubt a company that size doesn't take into account work loads. There was more than one signature line. There was also the signature series from the matrix line. I think they are more than equipped to handle the finish of a new signature line. But, like I said, their track record shows them coming out with one about two years after the intro of the line. The sig 800 line was this way, and so was the silver signature after the matrix series.

[T_Rex]

different bullets

VanHamp

The problem with bullets fixed to the magnet pole is that there is an air leakage path through the driver that passes up and down the magnet gap. If you have a sustained low-frequency note (eg an organ pipe note), you can get a chuffing noise which sounds less than hi-fi. To avoid this, all bass and bass/midrange drivers are now designed with moving dustcaps. The fixed bullet is reserved for dedicated midrange drivers such as the FST unit...

regards,