N803(old) vs 803S(new)

[RebelMan]

I have seen a lot of glowing reviews for the older N803 speakers but not much on the newer 803S's, at least not yet. I recently purchased the 803S's but I never got the opportunity to hear the N803's. Has anyone compared the two? What did you think? Are the "improvements" really better?

The new price is only $500.00 (10%) more (per pair) than the old price was. Of the new 800 Series, the 803's went up the least amount and seems to be reasonable. For those of you that own the N803's, would you consider upgrading to the 803S's?

Just curious.

[miner]

Can't comment on the N803 but I recently purchased the N804 new. I bought those instead of the new 804D because of price difference. The dealer would not come down on the new 804S ($2000 ea) but I got the N804 for $1400 each. The difference in sound was not worth $1200 to me. Now if I were to upgrade it would be to the 802D at least.

[mr_m687]

Miner wondering if you could elaborate on the difference in sound you heard between the old N804 and the new 804S's. Also RebelMan any comments on how your new 803S's are sounding and why you went with the 803S's and not the 804S's.

Thanks

[RebelMan]

Also RebelMan any comments on how your new 803S's are sounding and why you went with the 803S's and not the 804S's.

I absolutely love the 803S's, and I am generally very happy with the sound I hear from them but not always. The quality of the sound seems to depend heavily on the source material. They say the 800 series can be very revealing and I believe I am noticing this. I am still breaking them (me?) in but how much of this comes in to play here is debatable, I am sure.

It seems when I play some CD's there is a greater tendency for fatigue to set in, and more quickly if the volume is loud. I am not sure if this is because of the way the CD's were originally mastered but I do notice it. However, when I play DVD-A disks (2CH) that fatigue virtually disappears. I can crank the volume way up and nothing comes through but clean unadulturated sound, absolutely beautiful and why I love them. I usually listen to Smooth Jazz, but I like to mix it up with Dance, Country, Classical Rock and Easy Listening.

Intresting that you would ask why I choose the 803S's over the 804S's. You might find my answer a little unusual. Actually, I wasn't going to consider (paying for) anything else in the 800 Series after listening to the 804S's. I thought they were the sweet spot in the line, price/performance wise that is. Until it came time to select the center channel.

I was debating between the HTM4S and the HTM3S. Most people will argue, and I agree, that to maintain timbre balance across the front "stage", so to speak, you need to use cabinets that employ the same drivers. "Similar" drivers may get you by but you might not like what you hear over time. I struggled with this decision for a long time because of the huge price difference. Yes, the HTM3S sounded better, but was it worth the money? To me the sound was worth it but the cost of it was not. Unfortuantely, to have it I had to pay the price they wanted for it. It hurt my back side (if you know what I mean) but my ears were happy! :wink:

But, now I had a new problem and an "anal" one at that. I thought the 804S's looked (way too) disproportional when paired with the HTM3S. Since, as shallow as this may be, visual asthetics are just as important to me as the sound I hear, I was not as happy with the look of the system I was putting together as much as I was with the sound of it. So, it was time to audition the larger 803S's, which I did. The 803S's sounded wider and fuller than the 804S's did but again, were they worth the price? In my opinon, not really. But they looked much better, so I bought them. I suppose the 20% discount I managed to negotiate made this decision a little easier to bare.

[RebelMan]

One more thing. About a week after I made my decision (purchase), I ran into an article that was published by Sound and Vision back in 1999 regarding the new reference system they put together. It consisted of the N803's and the HTM1 of the (now) older 800 series line. When I read what they wrote about why "they" chose their speakers, I knew I made the perfect decision. If I had to do it all over again, I would do it exactly the same. No regrets or buyer's remorse what so ever! :T

[RebelMan]

Anyone else have any feedback?

[kurtholz]

i can give you my novice feedback,i also have the Nautilus 803's, and an HTM1 Center, driving those with a krell 3250, using my old CDM9nt as rear surrounds and 601 as rear center, those i drive with Rotel 1095, using asw800 sub,

i listend to 803D's driven with the Krell 5 channel amp, though i think there is a degree of added bass ,certainly wasnt worth the extra bucks to me,especially with the kick of the asw800

i have no upgradeitis at all ,(finally)

they fit nicely , not a huge room distraction, sound is just incredible, the Krell made a huge difference, now, if i could just get them boy's back out to EQ everything,i can get down to some serious ear bleeding

now all of this is after spending hours drooling over some 801's, the large Krell loudspeakers, also spent some time with the Mcintosh somethings, ($7000 ones)

for the price, 803's were just a perfect fit,( am i rambling)

my two cents, hard to beat the B & W's properly driven ( that's an important ingredient)

Kurt

[RebelMan]

i have no upgradeitis at all...

they fit nicely , not a huge room distraction, sound is just incredible...

for the price, 803's were just a perfect fit...

...hard to beat the B & W's properly driven...

I would have to agree with you on all of these points. Thanks for the input. :T

Hmm, are there no other 803 owners out there?

[Zoran]

Hey, RebelMan - keep cool!

You made the BEST possible solution throughout the new 800 range! In my opinion the 803S deserves "sweet spot" position, not the 804S. I think price difference to bigger diamond tweetered 803D (about 50% extra money) is still huge. In Macedonia 803S costs 4800Euro vs 7000Euro for 803D. 804S? Out of discussion, anyway - this is much smaller loudspeaker, though looks similar on pictures... I saw them both. 804S should be not into the same category.

You basicaly refer to differences between 803S and older N803. Just look on the spec list. 803S weights 41kg net, vs ONLY 30kg for N803! BTW, two cabinets are almost IDENTICAL in physical dimensions, amount of drivers as well (I guess that new Rohacell based drivers don't raise weight significantly). That means that a big revolution occured INTO the cabinet - 11kg extra means something, agree? I can guess that internal bracing, dampening etc has been raised on much higher level. 803S seems to be much more different, internally “bigger” speaker than its predecessor!

Personally, I have had only a few listening experiences with older N803 - in Audiocenter shop in my place. Very, very revealing speaker, with some compromises in lower-end performance. I saw the new 803S abroad, two weeks ago, without listening.

But, the most important - I ordered a red cherry pair 803S a few days ago, expecting them in June. I expect a huge leap over my N805, which I sold last week.

Happy listening - you made the right choice!!!

Zoran, Macedonia

[RebelMan]

Thanks for your vote of confidence Zoran! The 803S's do appear to be the sweet spot when you compare the differences on price like that.

As you pointed out, there are many improvements to the new design and this is exactly what has my curiosity going. For instance, I have heard that the new Rohacell driver is very light in construction but also very rigid. Apparently this construction produces a quicker and tighter response in the low frequencies. I also know the tweeter and midrange driver have been "improved" as well as the cabinet. I would assume the improvements make a sonic difference but is there a sonic improvement? Paper based feedback can only go so far.

Congratulations on your purchase! The 803S's are fine speakers. Since you had the opportunity to listen to the original N803's I look forward to your opinions about the 803S's and any comparisons you can make about them.

By the way, the 803S's are a HUGE improvement over the 805's, and the 805's are nice speakers to begin with.

[Zoran]

Thanx RebelMan,

I would be happy to share my impressions on 803S sonics overhere with right people, very soon hopefully.

I heard 800 series’ aluminium tweeter is the same previously used in (already discontinued) Signature 805/800, which was claimed as serious upgrade over the basic N805 tweeter (apparently criticised in Stereophile measurments - otherwise, truly rave review for N805). Sig. 805 tweeter performance was consistently considered as slightly calmer and tamed over the basic N805 tweeter...

I owned N805s a full year - OK, they are really able to deliver bags of details, timbral cleanness, 3D stage etc, but I got impression that in some pieces of music the tweeter somehow "played for himself" delivering certain, say, sound artifacts - out of integration with the bass/mid driver. Some people throughout audio pages had very similar opinions - I've heard that possible reason might be fourth-order crossover implemented into entire Nautilus 800 Series (including N803!), unlike the new 800 Series which uses simpler first-order crossovers. Less electronics between the terminals and drivers should mean better accuracy, if logic serves me well, OK? So, one of advantages of 800 series models should be better concept of crossover section.

I also ordered a pair of 805S (not for surround, God, save me - I am ortodox, radical, fundamentalistic, ultraconservative etc “two-channel ONLY” dinosaur - now and forever!), starting second system into my working room, so I'll be able to compare them directly to their predecessor N805.

Zoran, Macedonia

[turbokuo]

But, now I had a new problem and an "anal" one at that. I thought the 804S's looked (way too) disproportional when paired with the HTM3S. Since, as shallow as this may be, visual asthetics are just as important to me as the sound I hear

Hahahaha, RebelMan I love the reason why you went with the 803S cause that's exactly what I would have done. I'm glad someone else is as anal as me when it comes to asthetics. You're hardcore...love it!

[misterdoggy]

I thought the 804S's looked (way too) disproportional when paired with the HTM3S. Since, as shallow as this may be, visual asthetics are just as important to me as the sound I hear, I was not as happy with the look of the system I was putting together as much as I was with the sound of it.

RebelMan
I had the exact same experience ! I have the HM3S and the 804S' and without having read this thread, I am moving my 804S' to be my surrounds returning the current surrounds - 805S' and have ordered the 803S' for my fronts. I mean the 804S' look a little scrawny next to the HTM3S. It doesn't seem to be evenly matched "visually"

[martino]

just got my new set up..

been on week now since i hooked up my 803S's and HTM3..after trading in 704's and HTM2 (old).
I listened to both 803S and D..I thought the D had greater base and depth, but for my room i want crispness..surprisingly i prefered the highs of the S....as my listening environ does not lack for bass and is not reflective.
I love my 803S's..the sounded great right out of the box...i've kind of taken it easy on them...i'll crank em up this weekend...can't wait!

Cheers

Martin

[RebelMan]

misterdoggy, Glad to hear that we share the same visual appeal! Good choice by the way. :T

martino, About a week ago, I spent a couple of hours listening to the 803D's and 802D's. It was a casual audition only, nothing critical. I wondered if I were going to upgrade my 803S's (and take advantage of the one year trade up offer that my dealer allows) what would I upgrade them to? (Not planning to, just curious.)

Before I settled on the 803S's, I had a chance to listen to the 802D's. After last weeks reprise, I still found their performance stunning and their appearance appealing. Then I took a shot at the 803D's which I didn't hear before. To my surprise I was rather disappointed by what I heard. The top end was smooth and not too forward but the bottom end, while certainly not lacking, did seem muddied. I mentioned this to the saleswoman and she replied that their proximity to the walls were culprit. Funny she would say that, as the 804S's that I also listen to were sitting right next to them and they sounded just fine. Not to mention that the first time I heard the 802D's they were almost sitting in the same spot and they sounded just fine also.

Mind you, this was a very informal test. Though, for first impressions I was not that impressed with the 803D's and you know what they say about first impressions. Perhaps my 803S's have spoiled me for the 803D's and the only worthy upgrade would be the 802D's?

[martino]

Rebel man; I agree with your assesment of the 803D's..I also thought they sounded very smooth, but not as revealing odr detailed as i expected...much prfered the 803S's (note to 803D owners..not knocking your speakers..just reporting the facts of my audition and my pref's).
My choice for upgrade would be 802D..as this would be the upper limit of my affordability...I did listen to them with a full Burmeister system..and it was magic!
For now however (and what i told my wife..the 803's are the last speaker we will ever need.
This weekend I get to hook up my new Tera Labs Vector 1 speaker cables...i'll report on what differences i hear.

Ciao

Martin

[RebelMan]

For now however (and what i told my wife..the 803's are the last speaker we will ever need.

Funny what we will tell our wives to get their approval. I'm with you partner! (I said the same thing!) :T

[martino]

Rebel Man....Got to keep the ladies happy and involved! as you know...hey checking you profile...how to you like your SCM's and your Sub 825.
I'm running 602's as my rears and a REL Sub.

Martin

[RebelMan]

...how to you like your SCM's and your Sub 825.
I'm running 602's as my rears and a REL Sub.

You might be surprised to hear me say it, but those SCMS's give the 805S's a real run for their money. They sound virtually identical to the 805S's and rightly so. I wasn't sure at first how I would like them hanging from the wall versus the stand mounted 805S's. Now I can safely say that when I decide to go with an 7.1 setup, you can bet I will be adding another pair of SCMS's to the mix, they are that good. I am a 50/50 music/movies kinda guy. I don't usually exercise multichannel music with them as I prefer to listen to stereo, but when I do I am really impressed with how well they fit in.

When I first heard the ASW825 I was completely blown away. I was not expecting the amount of tightly controlled power it delivered. I was very impressed. I don't use it much when listening to music but when I do it integrates nicely and I am extremely pleased. However, with your REL, depending on what you have, you may be plenty satisfied with it already. Many people here admire their musical ablities and use them quite often with a B&W setup.

[jlee]

You might be surprised to hear me say it, but those SCMS's give the 805S's a real run for their money. They sound virtually identical to the 805S's and rightly so. I wasn't sure at first how I would like them hanging from the wall versus the stand mounted 805S's. Now I can safely say that when I decide to go with an 7.1 setup, you can bet I will be adding another pair of SCMS's to the mix, they are that good. I am a 50/50 music/movies kinda guy. I don't usually exercise multichannel music with them as I prefer to listen to stereo, but when I do I am really impressed with how well they fit in.

When I first heard the ASW825 I was completely blown away. I was not expecting the amount of tightly controlled power it delivered. I was very impressed. I don't use it much when listening to music but when I do it integrates nicely and I am extremely pleased. However, with your REL, depending on what you have, you may be plenty satisfied with it already. Many people here admire their musical ablities and use them quite often with a B&W setup.

I totally agree. I was skeptical about the SCM1, but I am now a HUGE fan. I was skeptical because of the specs, but I soon realized those specs are for REGULAR TESTING just like all speakers, not when they are mounted on the wall. When mounted on the wall, they actually have an ADVANTAGE over many speakers in that the reflections off the rear wall will not be so time delayed compared to speakers that are 4-5 ft into the room. Padding the area where they are mounted will improve the result even more. The shallow cabinet also allows for less midbass coloration of voices, something the 805 and HTM2 suffer BADLY from. The ONLY drawback really of these wonderful speakers is the bass ACURACY. They produce great TIGHT bass for such a small speaker, but when compared to an 804 for example, it becomes apparent the lower bass is not as defined (which is to be expected, after all that little driver has to do all the midrange AND bass). I did a test where I ran 1 SCM1 and 1 N804 and it's virtually seamless. I also ran 1 805 and 1 804 and it was "blurred" mostly because of the different crossover. SCMS or SCM1, I'm a fan!

[sikoniko]

I love my SCM1's! I was traditionally a fan of a full range speaker for the rears, but I upgraded to these as a compromise with the fiance and to save some space. These speakers are a great addition to any theater.

I bought a pair of htm2's at a blowout price that I am using in the back for 7.1. I am thinking of selling them due to bulkiness and mounting issues and just getting a pair of SCMS's when I get a house for 7.1. I would lose 7.1 for now, but I think I would be happier w/ the SCMS's mounted on the wall instead of dealing w/ trying to mount these htm2's somewhere...

[martino]

great to here back from all the SCM front..as I am using 602's as surrounds now (they sound pretty good BTW) with my 50/50 mix of music to movies.
I'm overbudget for the time being but will consider SCM's or DS8's when the time comes.

happy fathers day...

martin

[chinets]

What Amp to use with with N803 & N804???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am 50%-50% Music listner of all types of Music and an avid HT fan so I have upgraded from B&W 703 front,704 rear and now since one week NEW N803 front and N804 rear and ASW850 Sub, Center HTM1, and Rotel 1065 Amp which 100 watts. for 5.1.
My problem is that Rotel 1065 with B&W 703,704 the sound was Agressive and full range( which I love) and brought the lows and highs to its best, but now with N803 and N804 the sound is quite flat with Rotel 1065 as I believe not enough watts. It sounds quite good on bleeding high volume and brings out all the Bass and Mids perfect but the volume must be quite high to enjoy and that bothers me and the family.
I have just ordered the Rotel 1095 Amp which is 5.1 /200 watts per channel and the processor 1098 by Rotel..Will that do the job to drive the speakers at low volume so that they have their full dynamic range of lows and highs at low volumes and make them sing??? Or should I seriously look into another Amp. or is this more that sufficient.??For the time being, I am excersizing my new speakers by breaking them in with the Rotel 1065 but my new Amp./ Proces. will arrive in three weeks. I got the the Amp. and Processor for $5600 which I have not paid yet and can switch to any other model to drive these beautiful speakers. Do you think I should get what I ordered or spend more money well spent on lets say Krell or any other Amp. and Processor which would last for years to come and feel I did the best to get my speakers singing and not have to upgrade next year for example. I just want to get the best performance out these speakers without blowing them. I listen to Rock,Jazz,R & B, Pop, all types of Music and half the time watch Movies. So please help me URGENTLY as I have to make a decision immediately and I am totally confused because the Rotel at high volume is driving the N803 and N804 well but at high volumes so wouldn't the 1095/1098 be sufficient as they are very classy components and give very clean sound??????????????? I respect all comments please??!!!

[martino]

I run my 803S, HTM3 and 602+Rel sub set up with a 1095+1098..works fine..low or loud!

Its a great Kit..go for it!!

have fun

Martin

[tomvbugg]

Hey,

Has anyone made the upgrade from 803 to the 803s??


Tom

[Jesse111]

Had 9nt's for years and loved em. Very warm easy to crank up but lacked the detail of the 803s by a long shot. Also had VMPS RM40's which I could not stand to listen to for more than 15 or 20 minutes without a splitting headache. Worst bass I think I've ever heard also. The 903s' are just what the doctor ordered in my opinion. Excellent balance of warmth and detail. Make sure you have the quality components to back them up. They will tell you if you have anything in your system feeding them noise. Otherwise, just sit back and enjoy the detail and rich quality B&W can deliver like no other speaker on the planet.

[Joost1973]

Did anyone in the meantime have a chance to compare the 803 with the 803S?

I now have an option to buy a set of 803's front (1 yr old) and 804's surround (3yrs old). When combining with the HTM3S I was wondering whether these will match well enough or that I should save up to buy a new set of 803S to combine with this center.

[stewfoo]

Martin, I too have 803s, htm3s, 1098...etc I love the speakers but, they are too revealing for the rest of my system. I dont what the weak link in my system is the rotel stuff or the $200 toshiba dvd player that I play dvds and cds on. I am waiting for the next technology to come out before I buy a crazy expensive player....If I can wait

[jlee]

Martin, I too have 803s, htm3s, 1098...etc I love the speakers but, they are too revealing for the rest of my system. I dont what the weak link in my system is the rotel stuff or the $200 toshiba dvd player that I play dvds and cds on. I am waiting for the next technology to come out before I buy a crazy expensive player....If I can wait

The weak link in your system is clearly the toshiba when playing CD's... however, when playing DVD's, as long as you're using a coaxial connection from DVD player to your 1098, and the Toshiba solely as a transport, little is lost since the 1098 is doing the processing.

The 1098 is a very nice unit.

[VictorHRS]

I have the 803 's but I haven't listened to the new S or D 803 B&Ws... I had only a good time with the 801D associated with Jeff Rowland and Wadia gear.

Although Audio magazine has ranked both the 800D and the 801D above the original Nautilus, I still prefer this last one, which I believe are the most amazing speakers I have ever heard, closely followed by the Avalon Osiris.

I chose my 803's over the old 804's and the new 804S, because they gave the balance/neutrality that I was looking for... The 804 didn't have the bass I wanted.

As for my 803's, they sound magical, but not as quite natural as the Dynaudio 3.3s that I compared to in my house. I'm running Rotel, Halo and Gryphon gear....

Victor