Old 803 vs New 804

**Cowanrg** · 26 January 2005, 13:13 Wednesday

people used to just buck up and get the 802's when they were considering the 803's now there is a bigger price gap in the new line. the 804's will become more popular. for your room, the 803's are a bit too big, and you will just get some boom out of it. you have an HGS12, so you dont need the extra bottom end either. personally, i would go with the 804's. the 803's have been the little baby brother to the 802's. they are the budget version of them.

**ti33er** · 26 January 2005, 15:06 Wednesday

hmmm I would just go for the new 804S's (well I am in fact going to get them so that confirms my seal of approval!), they are magnificent little speakers and are not 'slow' by any means - compared directly with the new 805S, the 804S's have more presence, wider soundstage and more open/revealing mids, not to mention the tight punchy bass! I fell in love with them...don't talk to me about the Diamond models though, those perfect little tweeters just make me cry, because I can't afford them (space and "£" GF issues) ;(

PS. B&W are under the impression that mixing old and new 800's is ok if the old are used as rears, I got an email describing "much of the Nautilus sound is retained in the new 800 series" :T

**sikoniko** · 26 January 2005, 15:21 Wednesday

are you going to keep your htm2 as your center? If so, I would go w/ the 803's, as the new series have the different tweeters and won't blend as well. You might also be able to get a decent price on an htm1(current) that would go even better with the 803's and use your htm2 in a 6.1 setup.

Depending on where you are in life, you may move one day and get a bigger space, so your 803's will grow with you.

**ti33er** · 26 January 2005, 15:37 Wednesday

...or you could move all your N800 speakers to the rear and have a 6.1 setup, i.e. have the HTM2 as a rear centre and get new S fronts? ...also the HTM2 is a bit thin sounding for a centre speaker when paired up with anything larger than 805's from what I have heard - DrBoom has this arrangement and has lodged his gripes?

...it has been said 2 things can destroy a man “money and woman”, I think they should add a 3rd “too many options involving HT system setups”

**gostan** · 26 January 2005, 16:08 Wednesday

I would not necessarily believe that the new 804S will sound better than the old 803's until I lreally listen to them. The pricing you are being offered on the old 803's is a really great price. I think that the 803's have a much fuller mid-range than the 804's and that they are not really the orphan in the Nautilus line. I believe that their price point made them a stretch when compared to the 804's. I would have purchased the 804's if I thought that I would eventually trade up to the 802's. My room size is not that much different than yours and as Sikoniko says "no room is forever". The 803's will work in your room. However, you will need to consider moving up to an HTM1 from the HTM2, whichever way you go. I say purchase the older 803's especially if you are more concerned about music than HT.

**Twincam** · 26 January 2005, 17:14 Wednesday

Well regarding the HTM2 together with 804's, well I have that setup as well right now (but not so much longer).
And what DrBoom wrote in another post ("it aint that bad") I can just second again. However...the HTM1 is clearly the better centerspeaker, and it will give you the same character for all the frontspeakers.
So, I can only agree with previous posters. If your budget allows it, try to get a good deal for a "old" HTM1 if this is possible. Maybe you can negotiate an even better discount if you buy 3 speakers instead of 2? If that would meant that you have to go for the 804 instead of 803..well, since you said that 50% of the usage will be HT I think that's a good choice. And IMO, the move from 805's to 804's for 2-channel listening will be a clear improvement anyway. But of course, if you can swing the 803's, well even better.. And just like Sikoniko wrote, you can use your HTM2 in a 6.1 setup (unless you trade it in or sell it), that would be awesome..

Options, options....

**sg1d** · 26 January 2005, 17:17 Wednesday

Thanks so much to everyone for your comments....some more food for thought...

Cowanrg:
Agreed, my HGS12 does give me the bottom end and lots more bass is unecessary, however, I did notice a marked difference in the overall "size" of the image. From 805->804->803, the image just keeps on getting bigger and bigger. Although the new 804s were not yet broken in, it also seemed that the 803's had more defined based.....Clearly, from a footprint perspective, the 804's would be a better size....just hate to pass on a great deal on the 803's.

Ti33er;
Agreed, the 804's are definitely faster with more presence and soundstage that the 805's, but as I stated above, the 803's are even wider and more open...when is more of a good thing just overkill...Forget about the D's, thats crazy money that only igor has....

sikonico
HTM2 is defintely going away. I'm moving to either an HTM1 or its replacement depending on the 803/804 decision.

New Question:
Old 803+OLD HTM1
vs
New 804+New version of the HTM1?????

Ti33er
I did think about the 6.1. its an interesting idea.. Run the HTM2 as a rear centre with the 805s, but that still leaves the question of the fronts

Stan,
Sounds like your the only one who is steadfast for the 803's. (By the way, I've worked with Natual Sound for years) Yes, the 803's are a GREAT price and hard to give up on...I agree with you that they have better sound, its just a question of too much base, and size of footprint.....and by the way, my room size is definitely FINAL. I have a HT with fixed 92" screen, Toshiba MT800 and a G5 interphased through DVI...not to mention all the audio gear...

Thanks again for all your help....I'm headed for my dealer......

David

**martino** · 27 January 2005, 20:04 Thursday

new 804S and HTM3 is my call

I currently have 704's with HTM2. They are still within the one year trade in so ASAP i'm going to audition the above..comparing the drivers btwn old 803 and new 804, the new only diff. is .5in less in woofers (and smaller cabinet) and the 804S have the new Rocell(?) material.
Bass is not a worry with my trusty REL box.
My expectations are that the new 804's will be fast,tight and clean.
Oh i'm still running 602's in the rear, but they preform very well in that spot.
Good luck, i'm sure you;ll love whatever you do

Martino :T

**gunny** · 28 January 2005, 00:16 Friday

Not sure if its too late since you've already headed to the dealer, but if you're leaning toward the 803's vs. new 804s, you might consider their respective resale values. That is if the thought of upgrading again crosses your mind. From researcing audiogon's market for the past couple of years, it appears that the latest model of Nautilus retains generally about 70% value of new MSRP. A look at the current valuations for the older Matrix series may shed some light on where the prices of outgoing used nautilus is heading.

**sg1d** · 01 February 2005, 01:13 Tuesday

Thanks again to all who responded to my original call for assistance... Its been a few days now since my return trip to the dealer, and I'm happy to say that I did, in fact, go with the 803's and I'm quite pleased with the results. The 804's have great sound, and had it not been for the 25% discount on the 803's, its unlikely I would have even auditioned them. After only about 20-30 minutes of listening to some of my favorites, (Michelle Petrucciani, Live from Japan), the bottom end on the 803's together with the much larger sound just could not be beat .... Now its time for some improved amplication. I love my AMP5, but Proceed is dead and 120W just isn't going to do it for the 803's.

Current Speaker Configuration:
Front - N803
Center HTM2 (likely to become an HTM1 Shortly) again, 25% discounts !
Rear - N805

I'm thinking either:
Bryston 6B - 3 Channel (300W) + Bryston 3B - 2 Channel (150W)
or
Anthem P5 (350x5)

Your thoughts are appreciated.....

**Twincam** · 01 February 2005, 02:48 Tuesday

Cool. I am thinking about upgrading to 803's too... Did you ever had a chance to compare the 803's vs the new 804S?
The Bryston 6B-SST should be a fantastic amp for your system. As a Classé owner I have to recommend that one too of course, but their 3-channel amp CA-3200 is a bit more expensive unfortunately. As suggested by earlier post, keep the HTM2 and go for 6.1. Maybe your amp is ok to only power the surround channels?

Best regards

TC

**sg1d** · 01 February 2005, 23:32 Tuesday

Twin,
I did compare the old 803's to the new 804's and the fact remains, the 803's just have a bigger soundstage. I also felt that the bass, and midrange were more open. I think its due to the size of the cabinets but I'm not sure. As I mentioned in my earlier post, from 805->804->803->802 the soundstage just gets bigger and more open while the quality and timbre remain consistent throughout the line. Clearly as you move up th line, the bass also increases dramatically. One thing I did notice was that the 805's and in fact, the 805S did image a better. I've been told that's just inherent with smaller speakers.....(I just love the 805S, thats were it all started)
Best Regards

**DanR** · 04 February 2005, 22:47 Friday

Save the money and go with the N803's. Same if not better sound and money in your pocket!

Old 803 vs New 804

Old 803 vs New 804

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