New B&W Nautilus Range

[watchthewaves]

Simon - I spoke to my dealer tonight as a matter of fact. He lead me to believe that they will be getting the old line surplus from the factory and be passing it along at very good deals.

Regards,
Keith

Thanks for the info Dan, Keith,

Was wondering specifically about the 804s. I was given the impression that the factory itself does not have any surplus 804s. Something to do with the lack of cabinets for them at this point. Anyone can verify this info? (ie 804 stock at the factory, not whether dealer has any 804s with him at the moment)

Thanks,
Simon

P.S. Thanks guys for making this forum a fantastic place for B&W info, tips and help!

[sound]

Hello,

I am new at this (don't care for my name screen name much but I got tired of trying to find something other's didn't already have) and I have a question. I have been saving up for the N802's for a while now. But, now that the new 800 line is being launched I am left with a choice. The new 802D's are beyond what I would like to pay for speakers. The new 803D's are within my budget. My question then is this: Should I buy the current N802's or wait and buy the new 803D's? Any idea's on performance between these two old vs new speakers would be appriciated.

Thanks

[watchthewaves]

Hi Tony,

No one's heard them yet, so the only thing we have to go on is B&W's word. If you check out Andrew's posting on page 2, they claim that the 803Ds will outperform the present 802s.

If I was in your situation, I'd probably wait to audition the 803Ds. If I still prefer how the 802s sound, then I'll look around for any existing stock or demo sets or even used, as there might be more than the usual on the market (anticipating that upgradetitis will be hitting some people).

Happy hunting!

[Aussie Geoff]

Sound,

Should I buy the current N802's or wait and buy the new 803D's?

Some arguments in favour of the current N802s:

• You know you like them!
• They have a legendary reputation
• Although B&W say that the new 803Ds are better - they will be different - what if you don't like them
• You will probably get them new for a substantial discount over the $8000 a pair for the 803Ds

And some arguments in favour of the new N803D

• B&W say that they sound better than the current N802 (but they will be different)
• They are likely to be easier to drive than the 802s
• They are more domestically friendly than the 802s
• Longer term they will probably have better resale value

Geoff

[KEF]

So yesterday

[*]B&W say that they sound better than the current N802 (but they will be different)

I was at a local dealer, and in conversation I repeated this quote above. The sales guy said that the owner that came back from the NY show said his contacts told him that the N803Ds will be on par with the current N800s, and the top end will be better than the current Signature N805s

Now, I didn't buy it because we have all heard the N802 quote, and we discussed it - but almost every guy working in the store reiterated the same thing; better than the Sigs and on par with the 800s.

Needless to say, it should be a very interesting month as these things begin to trickle in, run the gauntlet, and get reviewed by multiple places.

Cheers,
Keith

[jazznsoccer]

At this point I plan to wait for the demo. Its impossible to speculate on which will be a better "sound". Or if the upgrades will be worth the cost increase. B&W seems to be convinced so I think it's worth the wait and the listen. (I had hoped to have speakers as soon as the add on is done shortly. The Arcam and CineNova are crying out for better speaker and I WANT IT NOW! On the other hand, my current speakers are sounding better than ever!).

My local dealers will have the N802 which I would like to compare to the 803D and 802D (although the 802D is more than I had planned on spending).

Remember, the 802 is still a very nice speaker. And I like the distinctive design.

Now the HTM1D is just a monster - looks and price wise. :Z so I'll be looking at the HTM2D.

With the cost increases I'll have to do more comparisons against higher priced speakers... and it looks like I'll have time to do that. More fun!
I also will be comparing the DS8 and SCM. And I'll hold off on the 7.1 for 2 reasons 1) anticipating the Diamond upgrade later in the year and 2) the cost increases have done a number on the budget....

[mrkiko]

Hi Guys,
Do you remember the the NT series? Now replaced by the 700 line? Do you remember all the big advertisement about them? B&W has a dedicated website for this series.
Maybe some of you will agree, that the 700 series is just a commercial move, the 703 is really not much better then the old 9NT. IMHO is worst.
I wouldn't be so much surprised if the "entry level" speakers of the new Nautilus series will be "only as good" as the current ones, ... just 10% more expensive. Maybe the higher D series may have some extra something.

I think to upgrade my HTM2 to a HTM1 next week. Also because it's red cherry. And from this point of view i don't agree with the official declaration, that B&W did everithing to preserve the value of the existing users. On the contrary, they eliminated the most diffused color, so people has to upgrade all the line.
Soon we will listen and we will see.

[JJK]

After reading B&W's press release and all of the post's here it sure sounds like the new standard speakers of the Nautilus series 2 will have all of the components of the Signiture series and then some. Would it be safe to say that the new 800 series 2 "S" models will at least sound as good as the current Signitures? Like the Sig 805 for example? (at least in the mid and high end)

[Aussie Geoff]

JJK,
According to page 5 of the B&W Press Release:

The 805S builds on the huge success of the Signature 805, offering greatly improved performance from the same cabinet design.

So yes - I'd say that your interpretation is exactly correct...

Geoff

[uncle_git]

Hi Guys,
Also because it's red cherry. And from this point of view i don't agree with the official declaration, that B&W did everithing to preserve the value of the existing users. On the contrary, they eliminated the most diffused color, so people has to upgrade all the line.

What makes you say they have discontinued the cherry red - most of the images we have seen so far have been of the new speakers in cherry red...

[Dan Schulze]

What makes you say they have discontinued the cherry red - most of the images we have seen so far have been of the new speakers in cherry red...

I believe what mrkiko may have been referring to is the new "Rosenut" finish. The current series is available in Black Ash, Cherrywood, and Red Stained Cherrywood. The new series is available in Cherrywood, Rosenut and Black Ash.

It does appear to me that the new Rosenut finish is not the same shade as the current Red Stained Cherrywood, but this is from only looking at pictures on the internet. I would have to see them in person to be sure.

As for me I have the Red Stained Cherrywood and if I wanted to be sure of an exact match in color (without seeing them in person) I would have to purchase the current models, which in fact I am seriously considering.

Dan :T

[mrkiko]

What makes you say they have discontinued the cherry red - most of the images we have seen so far have been of the new speakers in cherry red...

In the B&W press release, at the end of the page is written: Cherry, Rosewood and black ash. 3 colors. I think that the red that we see in the pictures is rosewood. A nice red rosewood, but not the red-stained cherrywood.

[ti33er]

...well, I went to my dealer today (tagging the lady along as a non-biased party) to compare the current 805's to the current 805 Signatures - this was just to get an idea of what differences alternate tweeters/woofers etc in the same cabinet could make...........and all I can say is...WOW!!!

I honestly had no idea the Signatures had such an edge over the standard 805's - even she said "...take these speakers away from me, they are just plain depressing...!" - this was after auditioning the Signatures and having the standard 805's replaced for listening again!
The standard 805's by comparrisson sounded flat and dull after the Signatures, and if B&W are saying the 805 Series II are even better than the Signatures, I am sold (well the 805's of mine are as good as sold! hehe)

PS. The bass is definitely better on the Signatures btw, and we also had a listen to the current 804's, which are generally slandered for being an inbetween/laid back model from what I have read...however we found the 804's to be quite appeasing, and bass response was surprisingly good vs popular opinion!?

[jazznsoccer]

Hi all,

I asked for samples of the new finishes but they're not available yet. I'll let you know when I can get samples.

[EAmin]

I honestly had no idea the Signatures had such an edge over the standard...speakers...

WOW! The Series II must be unbelievable! This is pretty amazing, and a little depressing being a 700 series owner.

I'm still debating about an upgrade down the road. Problem is my components. I have all Rotel gear which I like very, very much. It is a great value product as is the 700 series. But with a step up in speaker quality (or a leap as this seems more appropriate), doesn't this mean a step up in components? I remember reading/hearing how the current 802 is a very revealing speaker. It seems with the new series that it would be even more so if I were to go for the 803D...my favorite of the line. So in my case, wouldn't this mean I'd have to graduate to even higher end components like Classe or something at this level? I guess I'm of the feeling that an N-series speaker upgrade is going to lead to a total replacement of my entire HT/home audio system.

Anyone else feel the same way, or am I alone on this one?

Please don't misinterpret as disrespect to Rotel --- it's not. My comments are more so from the angle of REspect to higher-end products and what they can offer.

[sound]

Thanks for your thoughs, I have decided to wait and buy the 803D's as according to the litterature the sound "better" than the current 802's. I could always pick up a pair of 802's on Ebay or elsewhere if I want to live life risky. I perfer a wide sound stage with good mids and a balance between base and highs. I am looking for an amp/pre amp to drive the speakers and have heard that Rotel is a good amp for B&W in general as they are made for eachother. Is this correct? What other am/pre-amps would anyone recommend. I don't plan to go lower than 200 watts per channel. I would welcome anyones recommendations. I will primarily use speakers for music. I have some crapy rear speakers for surround as, for movies ,just the effect is fine. My space is approx 15 x 18 ft with a vaulted ceiling.

Thanks

Tony

[b&Wman]

I really like Odyssey Audio amps www.odysseyaudio.com Those babies are custom made and built like tanks. They come in several ranges, but from what I gather they are a step above Rotel gear. They have a different sound from Rotel. Rotel tends to be warmer, more laid back. Odyssey Stratos gives a neutral, maybe very slightly warm, highly detailed and musical sound with an impressive soundstage and excellent microdynamics. Downwide is that it took the amp over a month to really break in. The Odyssey Monos, Dual Monos should have no problems driving the 802, and the Odyssey Stratos Plus or Extreme should have no problems driving the 803Ds.

[ti33er]

Being a previous ROTEL/B&W owner: IMO ROTEL amps are suited more to the 700 and lower B&W series speakers.

You may be able to dig out something from these archives like this: http://htguide.com/forum/showthread....ght=rotel+mids which may sway your decision on a ROTEL amp. Just my 2c :twisted:

[JJK]

JJK,

I'd ask you dealer if he actually heard the speakers...

I've exchanged Email with Kal Rubinsten (of Stereophile) and he informed me that it was a silent presentation and that the speakers were not available to listen to for anyone (press or dealers)...

B&W are stating that the new series is signficantly better than signature sound - I'd say they must be pretty confident to day this and (potentially) disenfranchise existing Signature owners!)...

I wonder who is right...

BUT - If it was me I'd take the upgrade path you are thinking of in a heartbeat and leave the "not much differnce" speel to the Dealer who has to sell your speakers to someone else!

I think if you don't - you'll (most likely) always regret it once you read the first reviews of the new range...

Re your "what to they look like" query - try this LINK to the hificube Portuguese web site covered in an earlier post - they have an exact picture of the 803S etc

Geoff

Well, today my dealer tells me that B&W did not change the midrange and tweeter drivers in the new standard 800 series. This completely contradicts what the B&W press release states.......I'm going with B&W's info (whether the marketing is hype or not) on this one and will do the upgrade to the 803S, 805S, and HTM3 while I can still get the full purchase price of my recently purchased 803, 805, and HTM1. I am a little leary about this not knowing what the new line will sound like, however, like Geoff states...I most likely will regret it if I don't take advantage of this opportunity to upgrade with no $$$$ loss on the trade in. Besides, I will be without speakers until mid-January and after no sound for 6 weeks they should sound awesome. Anybody with any last thoughts for me before I return them in 2 days please chime in. By the way, I read a post here that stated the new 800 series will have new grilles. Any idea what they will look like? Thanx!

[sound]

Thanks for the info on the Odyssey, by the reviews it looks to be a great amp with a good price. Defonitely one to take a long listen to. What about a pre-amp/reciever? I have read that a HT reviever now a days has great sound quality and provides more options than the classic reciever. What are some good pre-amps out there and what would match up well with the Odyssey? Thanks again for your thoughts, I am fairly new to all this and don't want to go out and buy the usual Denon/Sony etc that is more common around where I live. Unless of course they are the best sounding equipment for the price.

Tony

[ti33er]

I have been looking at Parasound Halo range (for B&W's) - Dr Boom has/had Parasound and reckoned they mate B&Ws quite well ...they certainly look the part too!

https://www.parasound.com

(If you are in the UK, I found these guys for resale - http://www.crtprojectors.co.uk/parasound.htm)

Classe' stuff is also really nice...but very expensive - http://www.classeaudio.com/

[sound]

Great,

The Parasound look nice-- reviews are good too. Is it best to go with all of one brand name product : Should I get the Parasound amp to marry with the Parasound pre amp or is it fine to get the Parasound pre amp with the Odyssey amp?

Tony

[jazznsoccer]

New Marketing literature should be available next week.

[ti33er]

Sound: Personally I prefer to match my equipment, but there should be no problems mix n matching provided they have the same Interconnects etc....but you really ought to listen to amps/pre-amps WITH your speakers before you buy, I have learnt the hard and expensive way....buying based on other people's opinions and reviews is not really the way to go, and I am sure that just about every seasoned character on here will tell you that!

[DrBoom]

Regarding Parasound for B&W Nautilus, very good match if you ask me.
Lots of power and control, very tight bass.
I have the older HCA2205AT, which is comparable to the current A51 but slightly less powerful. (smaller transformer)
It's less nice to look at, but sounds almost equally good I've been told and it was a lot less expensive (used).

Classé is also very good, maybe a tad better than Parasound but the value/money ratio is almost 0.
The preamps are still "affordable", with $5000 for the SSP3000.
But the 5-ch poweramp is monstrously expensive at $10000.
I'm going to give the SSP300 a try when it comes out, hopefully this one will be of a satisfactory level for stereo listening and have better bass than my 1098.
The Parasound C2 I briefly had was great for movies, had incredible bass but didn't really shine as I wanted for stereo listening.
So as you see, I don't have any problems mixing equipment of different brands.
I would love a complete classé setup, but there's no way I'm paying that much money for a poweramp.
I would love to hear it sometime, and find out why it's so expensive and if it's justified.
I paid around €2400 for my HCA2205 (retailed for €4500, 2 years old) and for that amount it's great and really worth the price.
And at the price in the US I wouldn't doubt in getting one, $1999 is a steal compared to what they cost here. (if you can still buy them)

[sikoniko]

I have heard the omega monoblock from classe is the most incredible amp and is the best match for signature 800's.

[DrBoom]

I've heard the combination Omega - N800 Sig a few times at the VAD show in Holland, sounds incredible.
They usually give SACD demo's, with 2 N800 Sigs as fronts, and normal N800's as center and rears. (and an ASW850 sub)
Usually they use the omega for the Sigs, but this year they had the new CAM400 powering the Sigs and the center, and the Omega for the rears.
I didn't really hear much difference but it was way too crowded, but I do know that this sounded incredibly life-like and realistic, doesn't sound like a speaker at all.
The best system I've heard to date, all be it a very expensive one.

[sound]

Alas the Classe is out of my $ range. So, I will probably be headed toward the Halo A21 two channel amp and the Halo P3 two cannel reciever as the reviews say that the two channel receivers sound better than 5 channel for music.

Tony

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

The UK Prices for the new line are out as is (a little) more info on this Home Cinema Choice news announcement HERE.

Interestingly some sample prices show subtly varying increases from the USA ones:
805 - Old £1,400, new 805S £1,600 (14.3%)
804 - Old £2,500, new 804S £2,700 (8%)
803 - Old £3,500, new 803S £3,800 (10%)
803D - New £5,500
802 - Old £6,000, new 802D £8,000 (33%)
801 - Old £8,500, new 801D £10,500 (23.5%)
800 - Old £11,000, new 800D £13,000 (18%)

And we get the UK prices for the new subwoofers making it easy to "guess" the US prices based on the US / UK relativities for other new models:
ASW875 £2,600
ASW865 £2,000

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Let me quote from another thread in a different forum HERE The bolding bellow is mine

Got some more 800 Series update details from my dealer... he had a cool DVD demo and some printed material from B&W that explained a lot of the new technology. I only saw a bit, but he explained some of the changes. He said I could borrow the DVD after all the guys there had a chance to view it. I will get back to you on that one. Here is what I know for sure...

1. The diamond tweeter is a B&W product. They were aware of other products like the one posted earlier and have done extensive side by side testing and comparisons before developing their own product. The ultra high frequency response supposedly "raises the point at which we can detect distortion so high that it becomes irrelevant"

2. There are essentially two 800 Series now... the "Diamond" ("D") versions (with diamond tweeters) and the "standard" ("S") versions. The standard versions have been upgraded as well... I am not sure of the details, but if I heard it right, the new standard series will have some of if not all of the "signature" technology from last years Signature 805 and 800 models... better tweeters... silver internal wiring... improved crossovers... more high frequency extension (short of "diamond" performance but better then last years regular 800 models). This is good news... I heard a demo of the Sig. 805 vs. the standard 805 last year and was very impressed with the improvement. The new 805S sells for $2500 a pair vs. $3500 last year for the Signature Edition. So even though a pair of 805S speakers sells for $500 more then a regular 805 last year, it is $1000 less then the equivalent Sig. 805. Not a bad deal. And all of the new "S" Series will have these improvements for a marginal increase.

3. The new 803D is a an entirely new speaker. It has an extra bass driver vs. the 803S and hits nearly as low as last years regular 802 and requires much less amplification. (The 802 and up beg for power).

4. The woofer design is also new... some new proprietary space age Kevlar derivative called "Rohocell" (probably spelled wrong?) and will be incorporated on all (I am about 99% sure on this one) of the new 800 Series speakers... "D" and "S" series.

I will get back to you guys after I have viewed the DVD. It looked like it explained everything about these new speakers.

Sounds interesting… If one US dealer has that DVD then I’m sure one of our intrepid members…

Geoff

[jimmyp58]

You might want to take a peek at AmpZilla for an amp to power these speakers. Jeff Rowlands are great too but REALLY pricey!

[muzick]

This is my first post to htguide forum - prompted by the subject being discussed - amplification with B&W speakers.
It's well known that the 802, upwards demands power. That power must of course be of quality - not just quantity or the speakers will disappoint.
Having been an audiophile for more years than I care to remember, I have never been quite taken aback by anything as I was when I heard the Bel Canto ("digital") amplifiers. Not only plenty of power, but the sound is *so* sublime. The efficiency means that there is little waste heat and no massive heatsinks. What's more, these amps don't break the bank!
For your interest, the Nautilus Signature 800's were reviewed by Stereophile using (older model) Bel Canto amplifiers. For those that are interested, the two links below will get you started.

Paul

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/600/index.html

http://www.belcantodesign.com/

[Rogerrabbit]

Well i have heard them..

Exactly as the title says,what can i say they sound spectacular they are worth every penny extra and then some.

The sound from the 803D makes it worth its weight in gold...just wait and see.

[Aussie Geoff]

Roger,

Do tell more...

Geoff

[sikoniko]

I don't remember if I posted this or not, but my dealer ordered a demo set of everything from the 802D down and should get it between now and January.

I have decided I will get my SCM1's and be done for the time being. In giving it much thought, I will probably upgrade every other or even third generation of speaker.

[muzick]

For us Australians we have been told initially by the distributor not to expect anything on these shores until perhaps May/June! Very disappointing. This goes against what B&W have said - "Available globally on 15 January 2005". The emphasis here is the "globally" in the statement.
For that to happen, B&W would have to be shipping the models very soon, if the first batch are not in transit already. The same would have to be true also for the US market - B&W's biggest of course.
The distributor did say that they had ordered a pair of 803D's to be air freighted over for themselves to listen to. I also asked them to ship over an extra pair ...for me! :-)

On a different note, Roger - you say you have heard the 803D's? Like Geoff says - please tell us more!!

[Dan Schulze]

I don't remember if I posted this or not, but my dealer ordered a demo set of everything from the 802D down and should get it between now and January.

I have decided I will get my SCM1's and be done for the time being. In giving it much thought, I will probably upgrade every other or even third generation of speaker.

I have also chosen to add a couple of speakers now. Although it would be nice to get into the new series, my wallet is still in shock from my purchase of 802's, an HTM1, and a couple of 805's a year ago. I plan to have these speakers for a very long time, not to say that I won't get bitten really hard by the upgrade bug down the road!! :E

I have been thinking of upgrading to a 7.1 system from my current 5.1 system. To get the match I have purchased two more 805's. In addition to this I see a Bryston 4B SST in my future to power these babies (the system has to match - right? I have two 7B SST's & a 6B SST). My 805's (and stands) should arrive within a week or so. More speaker wire and interconnects are on order too.

Of course I will need to update the photos on my website too!!

The speakers are just the tip of an upgrade iceberg!! :B

Dan

[uncle_git]

Dan - I'm planning to purchase a system this year that bascially is the same as your setup - the one question I had was about the Bryston mono's - do the 802's require the extra power of the mono's over just using a 6b SST to power the two fronts and center ?

At this point I'm going to hold off and audition the 802D's before making a final decision - this is going to be my last purchase of speakers for many, many years - so may as well get the best I can afford.

Although justififying it to the Mrs may be a challenge

[Dan Schulze]

uncle git,

To be honest, I have not tried the 802's with the 6B SST. I have only used two different amps with my 802's, the first was an Anthem MCA 50 (180Wx5) and then the 7B SST monoblocks (600W).

When using the Anthem MCA 50, the 802's seemed like they were wanting more. Once I had decided on the Brystons, I just plain wanted something that I would have no regrets over. I didn't want to ask my self the question "What if I had bought the 7B SST's?" :roll:

FYI, my dealer is using a 6B SST & a 4B SST to power one of their demo rooms, which includes the 802's (among other speakers).

I am expecting my 805's within a week or so, and will be doing some rearranging of my equipment (temporarily using the MCA 50 to power my HTM1 and the four 805's until I can swing a 4B SST). I will give a try using the 6B SST for the 802’s, and report back.

Dan

[Fife]

I will give a try using the 6B SST for the 802’s, and report back.

That would be nice to know.

[uncle_git]

Dan - that would be awesome to hear an option.

Thanks very much for taking the time to try it out !

:T

[Dan Schulze]

uncle git,

I will give a try using the 6B SST for the 802’s, and report back.

Dan

Since this topic really isn't related to the subject of this thread, I have posted my results on a different thread that was already started by uncle git.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=9748

Dan

[eric_audio]

I've heard the combination Omega - N800 Sig a few times at the VAD show in Holland, sounds incredible.
They usually give SACD demo's, with 2 N800 Sigs as fronts, and normal N800's as center and rears. (and an ASW850 sub)
Usually they use the omega for the Sigs, but this year they had the new CAM400 powering the Sigs and the center, and the Omega for the rears.
I didn't really hear much difference but it was way too crowded, but I do know that this sounded incredibly life-like and realistic, doesn't sound like a speaker at all.
The best system I've heard to date, all be it a very expensive one.

I heard the combination Classe Omega with Nautilus last year at the VAD show. Very nice indeed. Another proven combination is with amplifiers from Chord. Not so well known in the US I'm afraid, but very famous in the UK.

[Rags]

Eric - definately agree with you there - the best system I have ever heard featured Chord amps - truly astounding amps but very expensive indeed. Their 5 channel power amp the SPM 3005 costs a cool $20,000+ in the UK and the AV processor another $20,000 !

Click below i you have the $$'s burning a hole in your pocket :B -

http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/products_detail.asp?id=18

[hillen]

White paper new 800D series

Hi all,

here is the white paper of the new 8ooD series:

http://www.cloneyaudio.com/news/images/800_Development_Paper.pdf

Bram Hillen ( holland )