New B&W Nautilus Range

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

The article in Stereophile by Kalman Rubinson is out HERE. It turns out to be a "technical information with pictures" article - no actual listenning - that's still coming!

However well worth a read!

Geoff

[sikoniko]

Just got off of the phone w/ my dealer about the new 800 series. He said he will get the official pricing the day after thanksgiving. I asked him if I could trade my current speakers in for the new line and pay the difference. (804's and htm1 for the 804s and htm3 is $1000). He said he would have to see if he could get a buyer for my speakers first and see what he would have to spend out of pocket but usually his upgrade policiy would be for me to upgrade to the 803s instead of just the same speaker in the new line.

If that is the case, give me your opinion guys, should I upgrade my rears to the new SCM's and stick it out with my current 804's and htm1 or should I upgrade my 804's to the new 803's and my htm1 to the new htm3?

[KEF]

Geoff -

Makes you wonder how good the 802D must be!

I am pretty my wallet and WIFE will prevent me from thinking too much about that question!

Cheers,
Keith

[Rags]

Any idea about US prices on the new subs ?

[JBall]

figures

i waited twenty years to purchase new speakers, just bought the 803'2, HTM!, ans ASW800. Now i feel i simply paid a bunch for obsolete speakers....sure leaves a bad taste even though i love my stuff

[jazznsoccer]

Hi Sikoniko,

I'd upgrade the mains and center before going to the SCM since that's where most of the sound is. Of course I'm more critical on music than HT. YMMV.

The race is ON to see who can get the first demo... :W

[jazznsoccer]

jball,

buying gear is like that (especially PCs!!). I plan to NOT check out the new stuff when I get the final piece in (Yeah Right!). I know what you're saying though...

[Dan Schulze]

i waited twenty years to purchase new speakers, just bought the 803'2, HTM!, ans ASW800. Now i feel i simply paid a bunch for obsolete speakers....sure leaves a bad taste even though i love my stuff

JBall - I feel your pain.

I purchased my B&W's about a year ago, and at that time I knew the 800 Series was out for a while. Aside from the fact that I loved the sound and the styling, it didn't hurt that George Lucas, Abbey Road Studios & Alan Parsons selected this line. That made me feel that I was getting the best I could afford (even if it wasn't the exact same speakers). My thought was that I was going to keep these speakers for a long, long, time. I figured that there will be new models at some point (although I did not think it would be this soon).

I take some comfort in the fact a lot of the design features of the current line are intact - that tells me that I did in fact make a good decision at that time.

One of my friends has speakers that I have no idea how old they are, but they sound awesome. I also have a co-worker that has a pair of speakers that are fairly old and he still loves them. Mind you these guys don’t have B&W’s, but have certainly complimented me on mine.

I plan to enjoy these speakers for a very long time, even if there are new models.

Dan

[gostan]

Dan

I purchased my 803's, HTM1 & ASW 850 in early August after much auditioning and assurances from my dealer that new 800's were at least one year away.

My first reaction to the news of a new Nautilus series was to go down to see my dealer, jump up & down, and figure out a way to upgrade.

I still may do this, but my second reaction was to exclude a Sunday of NFL HD Direct Ticket Football and spend the day listening to music on my almost new almost very old 800's. The sounds of the music did a lot to ease my anguish.

Keep listening to ease the pain because your existing nautilus speakers still sound fabulous.

Stan

ps: maybe, if I move and get a larger listening/viewing room - I could simply move my 803's to the rears (to replace my cdm1's), trade or sell the HTM1 and get new 803D's for the fronts. Somebody please commit me or contribute toward a retainer for the divorce attorney I will need to engage soon.

[Aussie Geoff]

Thoughts on Upgrading...

Hi,

Some thoughts to settle us all down...

Remember...

...It was only a few days ago that many of us were planning to order / lock in more of the existing series with the dealer to make sure we completed our systems and got a good match...

...When we chose our existing speakers we made a decision not to buy the more expensive models (whatever that was) because the ones we bought were the best value for our budgets...

...There are always better speakers out there...

...It is reasonable to expect further upgrades to the Nautilus line for the 40th anniversary on 2006 (signature series, 805D, etc) - so if we "have to" upgrade now - when will we stop...

...They still sound just as good as the day we chose them...

...They still sound better than 99+% of the speakers in the world today...

...The only limit to the desire to upgrade is our wallets and our sense of control...

...B&W have done well by us in making the new range so seamless with the old allowing a progressive transition over time in line with our normal plans...

...Our speakers will still give us exactly the same 10 years plus of listening pleasure they would have anyway - the sound we hear will be 100% the same as if B&W had not released newer models - all that is different is in our minds...

There - I feel better

Geoff

But I LUST after them anyway!

[sikoniko]

What Did You Do With Geoff?

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

Me no understand?

Geoff

[sikoniko]

Geoff,

all of that rational and responsible talk!? when upgradeitis his, it all goes out the window!

I did talk to my fiance, and for now im going to get just the scm's. i noticed a hairline scratch on the side of one of my 804's that is about an inch long. It isn't bad, and if i could conceal it, i might consider still trying to swap out for the new 804's and htm3. In looking at my budget, it would be great to get 803's, but it is just not the right time.

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

all of that rational and responsible talk!? when upgradeitis his, it all goes out the window!

I know - that's why we must be strong.... Join the local chapter of "Upgraditis Anonymus"... Stay away from web forums... And magazines... and Dealers...

PS - I think the "wait for the 803S" approach is good - the 804S seems not worth the pain now... But you could (I would) get the SCMS so you are "on your way"...

PPS - Weren't you thinking of the 802s at one stage... So that would make your real "natural" upgrade at least the 803D... (remember they are better than the 802s you loved)

PPPS - Just until you could afford the new 802D of course

PPPPS - And then in 2006 there is the signature series...

Geoff

[ti33er]

This may sound absurd to some, but I am somewhat relieved that B&W haven't changed the aesthetics of their speakers too much - I did purchase my Nautilus 805's etc speakers only 11 months ago, and mainly because of their unique appearance (......and lucky for that, or else I would be advertising on eBay already, knowing my quirky self!)

...on the flip side, I suppose in a way I am a little dissapointed that they couldn't come up with anything more modern in design...the wait for something revolutionary (after 7 years of the same appearance) from what I have seen so far does not appear to be as advanced as I had anticipated (anticipation in horror that was) :B ...am I alone in feeling this way? :W

PS. Perhaps they are leaving the amazing designs to set the Prestige2 range apart from the rest?

[ti33er]

mmm ok, appologies, I just read the bit about B&W claiming retention of design for integration with existing models...I take all of that previous "slander" back - thanks B&W!

(...except if I was purchasing a new set of speakers all round, I would admittedly maintain my original stance hehe) :W

[watchthewaves]

You guys who having been speaking to your dealers these few days, just wanted to find out whether are they still getting shipment of the existing line from B&W or whether supply has stopped and the only stock is what they have on hand -- ie has B&W's manufacturing facilities shifted over completely to producing the new line only?

Any particular models of the current (old) line out of stock at your dealers?

Just wondering by running out of stock now and with the new stock coming in only in mid-Jan, there'll be a long wait time for buyers.

[Dan Schulze]

You guys who having been speaking to your dealers these few days, just wanted to find out whether are they still getting shipment of the existing line from B&W or whether supply has stopped and the only stock is what they have on hand

SimonS,

I talked with my dealer yesterday, and I was lead to believe that the existing line is still available. I am going in there next Tuesday to do some auditioning for speakers for my Dad, and I will have made a decision by then whether or not to get two more 805's for rear channels (to match my existing 805 surrounds).

I have been thinking about upgrading to a 7.1 system for a while, but now the pressure is on. I am tending toward “yes, go for it!” I think the 805’s sound awesome, and I would want a match to my current setup.

Dan

[KEF]

You guys who having been speaking to your dealers these few days, just wanted to find out whether are they still getting shipment of the existing line from B&W or whether supply has stopped and the only stock is what they have on hand -- ie has B&W's manufacturing facilities shifted over completely to producing the new line only?

Simon - I spoke to my dealer tonight as a matter of fact. He lead me to believe that they will be getting the old line surplus from the factory and be passing it along at very good deals.

Regards,
Keith

[jazznsoccer]

So what what is a very good deal?

[Aussie Geoff]

Dan,

I will have made a decision by then whether or not to get two more 805's for rear channels (to match my existing 805 surrounds).

Depends on the discount you get... Other option would be to get two of the new 803S and use them in the front, moving your existing 805s to the reat for 7.1. THe 805S are supposed to be substantially better than the old Signature 805 and many people have made the upgrade to Signatures for the front speakers and loved it!!!

Geoff

[hired goon]

G'day,

THe 805S are supposed to be substantially better than the old Signature 805 and many people have made the upgrade to Signatures for the front speakers and loved it!!!

Really? The Signature 805s only go down to 56Hz (or 40Hz at -6dB), like the normal 805s, and the lack of bass extension was my main concern with the 805s (well, apart from a mid-bass hump). Maybe I'll have to rethink my decision not to get 805s, and demo the S805. Anyone know the specs yet?

--Geoff

[KEF]

So what what is a very good deal?

I don't know, I didn't pursue it because I would not buy the current line when the new speakers are coming out.

If you are really interested in contacting them, send me a PM and I'll shoot you the e-mail address of my sales guy.

Cheers,
Keith

[sikoniko]

Geoff,

You knocked a sense of reality in me and I have decided I'm going to keep my current htm1 and 804's, but I will get the new SCM's. If I were to continue trying to keep up, I will never have a house, which in itself will be an upgrade because of added room dimensions (let alone tax benefits).

Anyways,

The current signature 805's had an improved crossover, bigger magnet on the speaker and improved tweeter. If the new 805s have all that plus further enhancements, I don't see the reason in getting the current signature model?

[Aussie Geoff]

Hired Goon,

The Signature 805s only go down to 56Hz (or 40Hz at -6dB), like the normal 805s, and the lack of bass extension was my main concern with the 805s (well, apart from a mid-bass hump).

The Signature 805 have the same bass extension as the normal speakers but a higher treble cutover (-6 db or similar at 50 KHz) I would expect the new 805S to be the same... However the Signature 805s with no more bass extension do sound much clearer across the frequency range - they have a magnet for the bass / mid driver which is twice the size of the 805 and has special low distortion pole construction. Equally the Tweeter is lower in distortion and has a higher cut-off. Lastly the cabinet is much more complex internally resulting in a lower level of cabinet resonance...

All that aside though - no more bass... They are bookshelf speakers and need a good subwoofer for serious bass...

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

You knocked a sense of reality in me and I have decided I'm going to keep my current htm1 and 804's, but I will get the new SCM's.

Good move... Makes it easer to save for those 803Ds

Besides - there is definitely something to be said for a house...
For example:
...The larger room to let your ASW850 really "strut its stuff"
...Space for the new 7.1 set-up
...A real choice between upgrading to 803Ds or 802Ds

and (I guess) = Keeping that very patient girlfriend of yours happy!!!

The current signature 805's had an improved crossover, bigger magnet on the speaker and improved tweeter. If the new 805s have all that plus further enhancements, I don't see the reason in getting the current signature model?

I appologise if I wasn't clear in my post to Dan - what I was trying to say is that if the new 805S are better than the Signature 805 (which are very very good and much better than the 805) why not buy the new 805S and use them for the front - that way he would get both the 7.1 upgrade and better Stereo sound!

Geoff

[Phil Rose]

Dan,
Quote:
I will have made a decision by then whether or not to get two more 805's for rear channels (to match my existing 805 surrounds).

Depends on the discount you get... Other option would be to get two of the new 803S and use them in the front, moving your existing 805s to the reat for 7.1. THe 805S are supposed to be substantially better than the old Signature 805 and many people have made the upgrade to Signatures for the front speakers and loved it!!!

Geoff

Dan has 802s for the front if memory serves me correctly. IMHO DS8s for the sides would be the cats meow with the 805s in the rear.

[Dan Schulze]

Dan has 802s for the front if memory serves me correctly.

That is correct, I do have 802's for the front, an HTM1 for the center, and 805's for the surround.

THe 805S are supposed to be substantially better than the old Signature 805

Aussie Geoff, you have given me something more to think about, getting the new 805S. I could possibly move my existing 805's to the rear, and use the new 805S for my surrounds.

IMHO DS8s for the sides would be the cats meow with the 805s in the rear.

Phil,

Yes indeed, another optiion I had not even thought of!!

Decisions, decisions!! :roll:

Dan

[Dan Schulze]

http://www.hificlube.net/common/ver_artigo.asp?id_artigo=495&seccao=Arquivo&subseccao=Colunas

More photos from that Portuguese website that “uncle git” pointed us to back on Nov 19th.

YEAH BABY!!!! :B

Dan

[uncle_git]

I really like the way the cleaned up the front of the 802D - made it much less angular.

I likey.

Now I just have to ensure the Mrs doesn't see the receipt when I order all this gear

[greggz]

Interesting, the new SCMS no longer has the Nautilus taper tube tweeter or the flow port. Wonder what the new frequency response range is now.

SCMS


SCM1

[greggz]

Found another picture of the HTM1D on that Portuguese site. Looks like it has little feet in front. I wonder if it is intended to sit on the floor rather than stand mount like the other HTMs.

[Twincam]

Guys,

here are the specs for the new 803D (got them directly from B&W):

Specification 803D

Technical features

Free-mounted diamond dome tweeter
Kevlar® brand fibre cone FST™ midrange
Rohacell® cone bass
Matrix™ cabinet
Flowport™

Description

3-way vented-box system

Drive units

1x ø25mm (1 in) diamond dome high-frequency
1x ø150mm (6 in) woven Kevlar® cone FST™ midrange
3x ø180mm (7 in) Rohacell® cone bass

Frequency range

-6dB at 28Hz and 33kHz

Frequency response

35Hz – 28kHz ±3dB on reference axis

Dispersion

Within 2dB of reference response
Horizontal: over 60º arc
Vertical: over 10º arc

Sensitivity

90dB spl (2.83V, 1m)

Harmonic distortion

2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 50Hz – 100kHz
<0.5% 90Hz –100kHz

Nominal impedance

8Ω (minimum 3.0Ω)

Crossover frequencies

350Hz, 4kHz

Recommended amplifier power

50W – 375W into 8Ω on unclipped programme

Max. recommended cable impedance
0.1Ω

Dimensions

Height:
1164mm (45.8 in) (not including feet)
Width:
306mm (12 in)
Depth:
457mm (18 in)

Net weight

45kg (98 lb)

Finishes

Cabinet Real wood veneers
Cherrywood
Rosenut
Black Ash

Grille:
Black cloth

[DrBoom]

I can find several things wrong with those specs.

Why does it have a frequency range of only 28 KHz - 3 dB and 33 kHz -6 dB ?
If that's already the diamond tweeter, then where are they getting that 70 KHz specification that I read about ?
Even the "old" signature tweeter has a - 6 dB of 42 KHz.

I also expected a bit more extension in the lower regions, it's identical to the current 803 with only 2 woofers and a smaller cabinet and so is the efficiency.
So on paper it's a do-nothing woofer

The only things that have changed is the weight, the height and the power handling.

[Twincam]

Like I said,
I got it directly from B&W (when I made an inquery especially about the 803D) as an .rtf attachment.

The other info was not really new:
You should contact B&W Switzerland to learn of their detailed launch plans and distribution of products to the retailers. In general, initial stocks should reach dealers during January. Information on the new Series will be available in several forms - brochure, development white paper and DVD. The products will appear on the Internet when available globally.

[sikoniko]

Greggz,

I noticed that about the SCM also. No flow port or top mounted tweeter. I think I will like that better, so I don't have to worry about the tweeter.

What sucks is that all my stuff is Red Cherry... My fiance bought some mahogany shelves for the back wall, so maybe they will blend in better anyways...

[JJK]

How much better can they sound?

Hello everyone,
I just got the O.K. from my dealer. He will give me exactly what I paid for the 803, 805, HTM1 set up that I just purchased 3 weeks ago. I know that only my ears can dictate my preferences, however, we do not know how the new Nautilus' sound so I am asking for opinions. Please help as I have until next Tuesday to make up my mind.

Scenario 1: Keep my Nautilus 803, 805. HTM1 set up and get a good deal on some SCM1's.

Scenario 2: Trade them in for what I paid and get the new 803s, 805s, and HTM3 while keeping my current CDM SNT's for the 6th and 7th channels. Upgrading to SCMS later. (which I am told do not have the tweeter outside of the speaker cabinet anymore).....AND be without any speakers for around 6 weeks until the new line is out.

Equipment being used: Denon 5803A as pre/pro, amps in Denon (170x2) for 6th and 7th channels, Cinenova Grande 5 (300x5) for fronts, center and side surrounds, Denon DVD 5900.

I love the looks of the current Nautilus line and the sound is very nice too. How much better can the new series sound? I would not upgrade to the Diamond series, just the standard Nautilus series 2.

My dealer went to New York for B&W's announcement and tells me that even though the new series has the technology of the Signiture line it does not use the silver wiring inside the speaker which has an effect on the sound. He states that if I did a blind a/b test of my 803 and the new series 2 803s it would be hard to tell the two speakers apart. Unless of course I got the Diamond 803D. I am looking at the bigger picture here with the FST midrange in the HTM3 and the updated technology in the new line. Do you all think that the Nautilus series 2 will sound significantly better? Or do you think the difference in sound will be minimal? Furthermore, Anyone know how close the new series looks in comparison to the current series? I would just hate to give up what I have and then not be happy with the sound of the new series. I'm also wondering if the bass will sound as tight and powerful with the new woofers being used. Hmmm.......What should I do?

[Aussie Geoff]

JJK,

My dealer went to New York for B&W's announcement and tells me that even though the new series has the technology of the Signiture line it does not use the silver wiring inside the speaker which has an effect on the sound. He states that if I did a blind a/b test of my 803 and the new series 2 803s it would be hard to tell the two speakers apart.

I'd ask you dealer if he actually heard the speakers...

I've exchanged Email with Kal Rubinsten (of Stereophile) and he informed me that it was a silent presentation and that the speakers were not available to listen to for anyone (press or dealers)...

B&W are stating that the new series is signficantly better than signature sound - I'd say they must be pretty confident to day this and (potentially) disenfranchise existing Signature owners!)...

I wonder who is right...

BUT - If it was me I'd take the upgrade path you are thinking of in a heartbeat and leave the "not much differnce" speel to the Dealer who has to sell your speakers to someone else!

I think if you don't - you'll (most likely) always regret it once you read the first reviews of the new range...

Re your "what to they look like" query - try this LINK to the hificube Portuguese web site covered in an earlier post - they have an exact picture of the 803S etc

Geoff

[hired goon]

G'day,

Just got off the phone with the MD of Convoy International, the Australian importer and distributor of B&W speakers.

No Aussie pricing yet, and this is not expected to be finalized until January. The pricing is based on the UK pound, which has not really moved against the Aussie dollar, unlike the US dollar. So US dollar figures being quoted for the new series are not really indicative of what the Aussie price shall be. Expect to pay much more, relatively.

The importer also does not expect any stock of the new series until around April 2005 at least.

Bummer.

--Geoff

[jlee]

"I also expected a bit more extension in the lower regions, it's identical to the current 803 with only 2 woofers and a smaller cabinet and so is the efficiency.
So on paper it's a do-nothing woofer "

The distortion specs are slightly improved to 0.5% at 90Hz instead of 100Hz... so the 3rd woofer I guess allows each woofer to work less hard and therefore distort less by not having to move as far away from the center line on each "woof"... thereby giving the magnet better control over the driver.

[sikoniko]

I spoke to my dealer today and he said he received the pricing info and made his demo orders. He ordered a pair of everything from the 802d down and expects them in january.

He also said he will find out soon what kind of discounts he can give his current demo stuff. perhaps i can get my 802s afterall? heh.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Here's a link to a TRANSLATED VERSION of the Portuguese web site with the review / pictures of the new range.

You can even use the "Related Articles" links at the bottom to navigate to the other pages and Google will "magically" intercept them and translate them into a semblance of English on the fly! Worth ploughing through in between the descriptions of the British Museum - there is some interesting material. For example the photo of the 803D next to the 802D gives a real sense of the sheer size of the 803D!

Geoff

[ti33er]

Greetings my fellow pioneers of the B&W world! :amen:

Would anybody know if the original HTM2 stand will fit the new HTM2D/S (the wider new HTM1 lookalike) - it looks like from the pictures " http://www.hificlube.net/common/ver_...seccao=Colunas "as though it is using the smaller existing HTM2 stand? ...reason I ask is that I am considering selling my current HTM2 center speaker (and moving 805's to the sides), and wonder if it is worth keeping the stand...I mean it did cost me £300 not very long ago, and if I were to upgrade my fronts to the new 804's would probably want the matching center utilising the existing stand if possible?

Thanks for any info

[DrBoom]

You'll want to get the HTM3S, not the HTM2D to go with the N804S (there is no 804D).
The HTM3S is almost identical to the current HTM1, but with the upgraded drivers and tweeter.
So the HTM3S relates to the HTM1, like the 804S relates to the 804.
The HTM2D is meant for the 803D. (and higher if you don't want to shelf out $8000 for the HTM1D )
I don't know if it'll fit the "old" HTM2 stand, I don't even know if that fits the current HTM1.
Or is there just 1 stand and it fits both centerspeakers ?

[ti33er]

hehe Dr Boom, long time no speak, and thanks for the info ...I am hoping there is one stand for all small to medium size center models (for my sake!)

...can't believe I am thinking about upgrading again when I still have a hole in my pocket from my previous audio purchases, but I got the bug after all the hoo-haa on here (and from my Dealer who went to the presentation - he says they immediately came across as sounding more natural, and I do value his opinion for what it is worth)

On Monday I am going to compare the sound of the 805 Signatures to my current 805's side by side (with my "wife" I might add...have to convince her too *shivver*)...we gather that the new 805S sound fairly close to the Signatures, only slightly more articulate(?) so I want to see just how big a difference we are talking here before I seriously decide to get shot of my current set up (and prepare for the future...!)

...my guess is there are a lot of people with similar ideas, so if I take the plunge I should do it fast before my speakers devalue too much, making it not worth my while... :lol: