Wavecor Ardent Journal - the first Builds

[JonMarsh]

The old man wants to use sanding sealer but the can doesn't say what's in it so that makes it a bit tricky.

I found the data sheet for the General Finishes sanding sealer, it's "Acrylic" based cross linked. I think it's the same base as PSA backed veneer. Not as hard as epoxy but it should provide a good base for the veneer. Maybe this is one of the "I do old school you do new school". I have 2 quarts to use up. I will try a sample first though.

http://generalfinishes.com/sites/def...ler-020210.pdf

Sort of like, "Love the one you're with"!

That's why I'm thinking epoxy, given how much I have on hand of the right kind!

[JonMarsh]

I do have a couple of quarts of lacquer sanding sealer, but that's more a base for the lacquer finishing.

Posting from a new iPad Air; my GF is planning my move in using the Project management software on her iPad, that runs pretty pokey on my iPad 4, but is butter smooth on her Air. Amazing performance upgrade for one generation. Now if they do that again for another spin, maybe we could have an iPad Pro?

[benthe8track]

I do have a couple of quarts of lacquer sanding sealer, but that's more a base for the lacquer finishing.

Posting from a new iPad Air; my GF is planning my move in using the Project management software on her iPad, that runs pretty pokey on my iPad 4, but is butter smooth on her Air. Amazing performance upgrade for one generation. Now if they do that again for another spin, maybe we could have an iPad Pro?

Project management software for moving?! I need that for my exodus to Calgary haha.

I got my turntable back from the dealer today finally, looks like it was a bad Rega cart. All I can say is WOW. I can see why people argue that vinyl sounds better.

Epoxy is awesome. Tried both the usual 205 and 207 (special coatings) hardener since there was some kicking around at the shop. It made the epoxy a bit less viscous and seemed to penetrate better. Not as good for filling the little voids in the bamboo however. I'll probably use it again tomorrow after the sand for the final coat.

[TEK]

How did you apply the epoxy?

[JonMarsh]

Parallel processing! Looking good! :T

[benthe8track]

How did you apply the epoxy?

Rolled it on then tipped it off with a plastic scraper. West systems recommends using a roller to tip off but we were running low. It's pretty messy to work with and getting it flat is a bit of work, especially because if you don't it sucks to sand later.

[JonMarsh]

Rolled it on then tipped it off with a plastic scraper. West systems recommends using a roller to tip off but we were running low. It's pretty messy to work with and getting it flat is a bit of work, especially because if you don't it sucks to sand later.

That was my plan, too, guess we're on the same page.

I just ordered the second pair of Wavecor woofers, and for the fun of it got out and looked at the first- (today has been a day of seeing and holding things in my hands- was inventorying and putting away parts for the NSX 2002 update at GF's this AM) seeing these drivers and thinking about all the thought and work that has gone into this project, both in the original form and this new collaboration, just gives me the feeling these are really going to be a special set of mid size speakers... I'm jazzed! I hope that doesn't come off as boastful, it's more my wonderment at the process and evolution and the fruits of this collaboration which I foresee being realized pretty soon...

[dar47]

I like wonderment!

I guess I am in the same head space, got my second tower home today and had to slide it next to the stand to just stared for a bit. I thought " these are going to be so sick".

I'm already thinking I going to switch the 6600 out for the 6640 on the center and gift my SR71 surrounds to my daughter to go with Ben's old TT he is passing to her. This will lead to some 7" Wavecor surrounds with 6600 tweets. Of course I have some leftover bamboo for faceted fronts to match. :T

Tomorrow should be busy, we have too get your pallet out and bring Ben's towers home along with the rest of my gear.

[TEK]

This will lead to some 7" Wavecor surrounds with 6600 tweets

You are talking about separate sorround speakers?
Do you have any description of how these will be? Floor standing? Wall mounted? Shape, form and all that....?

[dar47]

Yes, they will replace these the one on the left. Zaph' SR71's.



Probably same front slot port, 1 ft^3. I may go sealed and smaller but I will use the Wavecor SW182BD02 and the Scan 6600. I will only need one 6600 as I'm replacing the one in my center with the 6640 to match the new towers.

I will follow the line of Face's beautiful 3way but maybe with a slot port on the bottom and of course same veneer. I guess this would provide an Ardent Wavecor 5.0 option.

http://face.cleanandquiet.com/store/Current%20Builds%201-11.jpg

[JonMarsh]

Spent a bit of time during lunch using the measured midrange and tweeter data from the last Ardent build and the LF data from the Isiris to mock up a preliminary Wavecor Ardent crossover; have things pretty well sorted out for the different midrange and tweeter, and it's looking pretty good. I'll want to do complete fresh measurements once I have the cabinets in CA with the Wavecor driver and the original midranges, but apart from some uncertainty about level matching between different measurements, I'd be surprised if this doesn't put us well in the ball part. A lot fewer crossover components than the original Ardent. :B

[benthe8track]

That was my plan, too, guess we're on the same page.

I just ordered the second pair of Wavecor woofers, and for the fun of it got out and looked at the first- (today has been a day of seeing and holding things in my hands- was inventorying and putting away parts for the NSX 2002 update at GF's this AM) seeing these drivers and thinking about all the thought and work that has gone into this project, both in the original form and this new collaboration, just gives me the feeling these are really going to be a special set of mid size speakers... I'm jazzed! I hope that doesn't come off as boastful, it's more my wonderment at the process and evolution and the fruits of this collaboration which I foresee being realized pretty soon...

I agree wholeheartedly, it's pretty cool how this came about and I'm glad I got to be involved. These are going to be the united nations of speakers when all of the parts come together From a manufacturing perspective I learned a lot too, I think to endeavor to do something like this I would want to tool up properly and make a few hundred haha.

Spent a bit of time during lunch using the measured midrange and tweeter data from the last Ardent build and the LF data from the Isiris to mock up a preliminary Wavecor Ardent crossover; have things pretty well sorted out for the different midrange and tweeter, and it's looking pretty good. I'll want to do complete fresh measurements once I have the cabinets in CA with the Wavecor driver and the original midranges, but apart from some uncertainty about level matching between different measurements, I'd be surprised if this doesn't put us well in the ball part. A lot fewer crossover components than the original Ardent. :B

Very exciting! Is it fair to assume the BOM will be comparable to the Isiris?
Did you grab the other two Wavcors from Solen? Just curious if they are still honoring that quote.

[dar47]

That sounds great.

This must be your longest (time) 2 part xover you have ever done?

Cabinets left the Peg. tonight, the guys in brown with a lift gate should help your partner in with it if your at work when it comes.

I left the baffle it bit proud from the sides so you may need to take a 1/16" off each side of the baffle with that Frankenstein saw of yours. After that no more saws just glue and clamps. :T

[JonMarsh]

That sounds great.

This must be your longest (time) 2 part xover you have ever done?

Cabinets left the Peg. tonight, the guys in brown with a lift gate should help your partner in with it if your at work when it comes.

I left the baffle it bit proud from the sides so you may need to take a 1/16" off each side of the baffle with that Frankenstein saw of yours. After that no more saws just glue and clamps. :T

Wonderful! Get me the tab and I'll shoot it to you right away. Love that PayPal...

Slightly oversize on the baffle sounds fine! Taking a little off is no big deal... putting it back on is a b*tch! :W

Yes, I did grab the other two Wavecors from Solen. No problems.

The topology is note for note from the Isiris design- same quasi LR3/NatP alignment I used in the Isirs; I setup the drivers for the approximate acoustic offsets in this cabinet, and ran data using the NS12's, as the measured response for the Wavecor woofers will likely be fairly similar. I will do complete fresh measurements on all drivers in the new cabinet, to finalize the design- later this AM when at the lab I'll take a minute and post the LspCAD schematic and SPL results- very good notches in the crossover region with the mid connected out of phase in simulation, too. I'll also be evaluating in simulation what inductor DCR is needed for proper network performance, for optimizing the cost/performance structure.

From a manufacturing perspective I learned a lot too, I think to endeavor to do something like this I would want to tool up properly and make a few hundred haha.

Well, if I ever get an inflamed sense of Hubris and delusions of competency, I'll be coming looking for you to be the production manager and industrial design director. I'm pretty good friends with one of the guys on our managing board, due to 20 years of shared audio interests, and after showing him some of the last pictures from the shop up there, his first question was, "Can you build and sell me a set, too?" :B His current speakers are Eggleston Savoy's, with Convergent Audio JL-1 Limited Edition mono block amplifiers (KT88's run in triode mode, takes about 2x the number of tubes to get 100W output),





and he has special versions of the TotalDAC D1 configured as "mono block" DACs, with the reclocker units and is pondering a TotalDAC server to replace his current unit. Let's say he's kind of serious about this stuff; we discovered TotalDAC about two years ago when he decided he needed an upgrade from his dual Antelope Zodiacs driven from a DCD8, and we started looking for higher performing solutions- evaluated quite a few at his place. His wife has rather good ears, too, and is supportive... within reason... a very liberal definition of reason, by most accounts!

[JonMarsh]

Very Preliminary Crossover concept proposal

Here's the work I did yesterday in some stolen moments... (geez, sounds like something out of a romance novel... but then, how would I know what a romance novel sounds like?)


this is a preliminary adaptation of the Isiris crossover topology to the Wavecor Ardent- note, I DO mean preliminary- everything could change. To some degree. Note also the downward spike in the midrange response is not the measured data, but an artifact I see now and then importing data into LspCAD if there are too many data points and too many decimal places for Lspcad to digest comfortably- often I massage/clean up the data from Fuzzmeaure first in Excel- didn't have time to do this yesterday.



The trial network design:




The simulated response of the trial design:



The purpose of running this test yesterday was merely a feasibility study, something to assess my belief that this was readily adaptable with small modifications, and that we could get something in the ball park. Of that I'm quite certain now.

For reference, here is the last version of the Gen 1 Ardent with Seas Woofers using the Duelund transfer function crossovers:




The midrange crossover was built on two boards connected together, due to size, as is the Isiris. With a sealed stuffed cabinet, I don't believe we'll get the column resonance which required the zobel damper network of L7, C9, R1. It wasn't needed in the Isiris. The revised configuration of the midrange crossover used for the Isiris pretty much eliminates the need for an LF Fs zobel for the midrange driver - no L13, C16, R20. The steeper 3rd order roll off of the NatP function crossover eliminates the need for a notch equalization LCR (no L14, C17 and R23). The steeper tweeter network also eliminates the need for a tweeter FS zobel (C15, L12, R19).

The flexibility and transfer function of the Duelund style crossover is very attractive, but only with very flat drivers. It was a great success in the NeoD CC center/main speaker, with the very flat Dayton RS52 dome mid, but much more difficult to implement well with cone drivers in a large three way like this. By going back to my roots with the NatlieP concept crossover, I think we've moved forward quite a bit- easier to implement, retains all drivers wired in phase, lower parts count compared with LR4 and nicer fill in the crossover region.

As Stever Ballmer would say, "I like our strategy... I like it a lot!" (I hope I'm not as wrong as he was! But the listening results with the Isiris indicate it's on the right track).

So, Back to the Future, Marty- we've got some speakers to finish building!

One more note- for the purpose of voicing this build accurately, measurements for crossover design and voicing will be done with the grilles installed.

[benthe8track]

Very promising! For fun I installed a copy of lspCAD and then promptly hit a wall. It just brought me back to how much I didn't learn about transfer functions..something about laplace transforms and lots of horrible differential equations.

Can you walk us through the process a bit? For testing is it pink noise primarily?

Hopefully the grilles work ok. The z-axis on the router was somewhat fussy and I would have preferred the pocket where the felt sits to be a bit more shallow to allow the felt to rest on the front of the baffle more. I also wish we made them of a more interesting material than MDF but only time will tell I suppose.

I've been calling around looking for someone to spray my boxes after the veneer is applied but most places think I'm nuts, only spray lacquer or don't sound competent. I found a guy that will let me use his automotive downspray booth but that idea relies on me being really good at spraying unfamiliar catalyzed materials my first time.

[JonMarsh]

I found a guy that will let me use his automotive downspray booth but that idea relies on me being really good at spraying unfamiliar catalyzed materials my first time.

I think you're a fast learner, Ben, as I tend to be- but I wouldn't take that challenge.

tell you what, when I get one of the cabinets setup for testing, I'll do a complete tutorial walk through including the theory on what kind of filter function we're dealing with here as well as the alternatives. That will be based off of some of the stuff I did for the Isiris presentation at the Northern CA DIY last year.

Here's a bit of a preview- should probably go into more detail including the background of the Duelund (great function, hard to realize in practice at reasonable cost with real world drivers...)

LR 2 crossover is very popular, an all pass alignment, and also requires drivers comfortable with a large overlap area (the Duelund is basically 2nd order on midrange high and low pass, and a 2nd order LP and HP for woofer and tweeter that evolves to 4th order as you get deeper into the stop band.)

I always like B3 in the old days (3rd order Butterworth, but it's a crossover in phase quadrature (90 degrees shift through the crossover region, which means that except for an MTM, there will always be a vertical lobe up or down (depending on wiring phase) that messes up the power response compared with the on axis amplitude response).

The concept is to use a 3rd order alignment that is minus 6 dB for both the midrange and tweeter at the crossover frequency, like an LR2 or LR4 network- strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a Linkwitz-Riley 3rd order, (as used for speakers or advocated by LR) but mathematically it can be created- first blush is it doesn't look very useful.



But this is for perfectly aligned acoustic centers- (which the Duelund and most other alignments need to work properly- or has to be compensated in the crossover. What about the way drivers are normally mounted on a single baffle, with woofer acoustic center offset behind tweeter?




Then we trim values a little bit, to better align the phase through the crossover region...




This is how the Modula MT and NatalieP were developed, using a quasi series/parallel network implementation. This made power steering and phase tracking a little less critical on component values and precision.

The Isiris uses the same concept, but in a parallel network.


For measurements, I have used Praxis in the past, but currently Fuzzmeasure, both which uses a chirped sine test signal, with convolution in the software after measurement to the impulse response as used in MLS; then we can apply gating and window types (Half Hamming, usually) to optimize the balance of early to late sound for a good tradeoff of LF performance but reducing the effects of in room reflections. Chirped sine signal has better inherent S/N and puts less stress on the drivers (lower peak levels), and as a plus, you can extract distortion performance readily, too. I measure using a TC Konnekt 8 or a TC Konnekt Impact Twin, both are Firewire interfaces supporting high sampling rates; I measure drivers for analysis at 96 kHz, using an ACO Pacific instrumentation mic and preamp, which is good to 50 kHz. For crossover development I limit bandwidth to 20 kHz, when I remember... :W

I'll put a full blown tutorial in line in the thread showing waveforms and explaining stuff- just a little extra work.

I have an old PC with CLIO measurement system, that does MLS testing in hardware. Also, LspCAD comes with a test program called JustMLS. But MLS is an impulse response testing system that has very high peak to average ratio, and in principle requires a quiet environment to get a good S/N- the way around that is to using averaging with correlation, to reinforce the desired signal and reject noise.

necessary if you test that way, but sine chirp avoids that and doesn't require such high peak levels.

[JonMarsh]

The second set of Wavcors arrived yesterday from Solen. Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...

Oops, wrong movie character.

I think GF is starting to realize what she's getting into, inviting me into her home, although "I'm" not there yet, my orders are all coming there- including some new china we discussed and that I got a great deal on online. Have to stay diversified if I'm going to keep her happy as my import/export traffic manager. :W

That NSX compact spare tire arrived yesterday, too.

[benthe8track]

Thanks for the detailed writeup! I love getting stuff in the mail, it's like Christmas. Speaking of my PSA veneer showed up today. It's pretty wild looking, going to be tricky lining it all up and maximizing the sheet.

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for the detailed writeup! I love getting stuff in the mail, it's like Christmas. Speaking of my PSA veneer showed up today. It's pretty wild looking, going to be tricky lining it all up and maximizing the sheet.

That can be a challenge- for that reason, I went a little overboard and ordered two sheets- $800 of veneer! Yikes! :E 8O

Won't tell GF how much that cost; she already thinks I'm just barely this side of sane! :roll:

[benthe8track]

That can be a challenge- for that reason, I went a little overboard and ordered two sheets- $800 of veneer! Yikes! :E 8O

Won't tell GF how much that cost; she already thinks I'm just barely this side of sane! :roll:

You got a lot better deal than I I think. The 'merican dollar is surging so my statement says my veneer ended up costing over 700 bucks The CNC is out of commission for renos and my buddy says no no more wood on their big laser so it looks like I'll have to plot a template and do it the old fashioned way. Fingers crossed.

[JonMarsh]

well, it looks like you've got it under control... cutting it close, though! I'm trying to figure out where I can layout a few tables together and a big sheet of ply as a working surface! What do you have for a plotter - something that will do the pieces at 1:1? I don't have access to a large format plotter anymore - though I can print up to 17" x 38" on my Epson 3880- that's not big enough for a side wall template. Well, no worry, I can cut a template in 1/4" MDF/HDF for most of the pieces easy enough, and use that to block out the veneer sections.

For being someone experienced in 3D CAD, I still do a lot of stuff pretty old school- habits from the 70's and 80s. Probably like your Dad.

[benthe8track]

Yeah I'll get the old man to plot it in two parts at his work. Here is the file if you want to use it for your veneer. I just did a .5" offset around what the model shows the size to be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aibckih3ocgafl0/layout.DXF

I showed the progress to some local guys and they gave me a chuckle by referred me to this.

[dar47]

Keeps calling me the old man, I think I can still take him but definitely not if his younger bother at 6' -1" and 240 lbs jumps in. :E

We have a lot of HP plotters that will do 3' by as long as you want. Maybe one that will do larger I'll have to check.

I got all the inserts for the bases in and epoxy is curing magnets in the grills and baffles. Magnets have a nice press fit in the grills, you just add epoxy in the back and drop the little pugs in flush with the fronts of the grills. :T I tried to inset the magnets just less then a 1/16" in the baffles, hopefully they grab as nice as Ben's. The little red dots on one side of magnets sure help keep the polarity straight for you.

I'll need 2 sheets of veneer as well, I found out last time that rustic plank cherry has a little more waste getting the most interesting look on the larger pieces. I was looking at others but keep coming back to the cherry so I guess I better just get it ordered.

I took a stab at costing the prelim crossover and looks to be under $1,500 per pair with premium parts for the mid and tweet section. :T

[TEK]

You got a lot better deal than I I think. The 'merican dollar is surging so my statement says my veneer ended up costing over 700 bucks The CNC is out of commission for renos and my buddy says no no more wood on their big laser so it looks like I'll have to plot a template and do it the old fashioned way. Fingers crossed.

That's close... Maybe to close? Is it intentional that the wood grains on the top is from side-to-side instead of from front to back?

[TEK]

Just a tought. I notice that veneer is quite expensive, having it shipped to Norway is even more expensive...
At the same time, woorking with veneer over plywood/mdf does not feel like "real woodworking". I just miss that feeling of working with "real" wood.
So, instead of going down a path thats ends up in veenering, would it be doable to for example make the box in real wood, like valnut, and add extra strength by adding a layer of bamboo on the inside? Have anyone tried something lile this? Using Kitchen bench plates of wood is also an option, might be easier to source.
(I know abouts Jon's Isiris build, but that is bamboo plywood, I'm more thinking about wood not turned into plates).

[JonMarsh]

Yeah I'll get the old man to plot it in two parts at his work. Here is the file if you want to use it for your veneer. I just did a .5" offset around what the model shows the size to be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aibckih3ocgafl0/layout.DXF

I showed the progress to some local guys and they gave me a chuckle by referred me to this.

Image not available

I remember that picture in ads... dates me, I guess! :W

Thanks for the link- will make doing some things quicker, for sure.

[JonMarsh]

Keeps calling me the old man, I think I can still take him but definitely not if his younger bother at 6' -1" and 240 lbs jumps in. :E

We have a lot of HP plotters that will do 3' by as long as you want. Maybe one that will do larger I'll have to check.

I got all the inserts for the bases in and epoxy is curing magnets in the grills and baffles. Magnets have a nice press fit in the grills, you just add epoxy in the back and drop the little pugs in flush with the fronts of the grills. :T I tried to inset the magnets just less then a 1/16" in the baffles, hopefully they grab as nice as Ben's. The little red dots on one side of magnets sure help keep the polarity straight for you.

I'll need 2 sheets of veneer as well, I found out last time that rustic plank cherry has a little more waste getting the most interesting look on the larger pieces. I was looking at others but keep coming back to the cherry so I guess I better just get it ordered.

I took a stab at costing the prelim crossover and looks to be under $1,500 per pair with premium parts for the mid and tweet section. :T

My experience working with many types of veneer has been similar- plus I wanted some flexibility in how I combined sheets or edges. We'll see how that works out. Also, in my case, I'm using some solid birdseye veneer I have for the facets- that will likely be put on last with PVA and an iron, after having been trimmed almost exact to size. This way, the facet pieces overlap the paper backed PSA veneer, and should hide the seam if properly applied.

This has worked well for me in the past, with the caveat that figured woods like birdseye or burl need to be flattened first with a veneer softener and press, and tried out thoroughly before being attached this way. Also, the newer water proof PVA such as Titebond 3 does NOT work well with this technique- original Titebond or Titebond 2 work better.

I haven't done a detailed cost out yet, but I will prepare a detailed recommended BOM similar to what I've done for the Isiris- I'm glad you're "realistic" (in my mind!) about the cost of a quality 3 way crossover- sometimes people want to build a budget 3 way and neglect the issue with the inherent cost of a good three way crossover!

[JonMarsh]

Just a tought. I notice that veneer is quite expensive, having it shipped to Norway is even more expensive...
At the same time, woorking with veneer over plywood/mdf does not feel like "real woodworking". I just miss that feeling of working with "real" wood.
So, instead of going down a path thats ends up in veenering, would it be doable to for example make the box in real wood, like valnut, and add extra strength by adding a layer of bamboo on the inside? Have anyone tried something lile this? Using Kitchen bench plates of wood is also an option, might be easier to source.
(I know abouts Jon's Isiris build, but that is bamboo plywood, I'm more thinking about wood not turned into plates).

There are a few challenges to using real wood- not impossible to overcome, but not easy.

Real wood is less dimensionally stable compared with manufactured wood products in most cases, being more sensitive to humidity and temperature- it is very critical to finish/treat it on all sides to achieve dimensional stability in most cases.

Of course, real wood is expensive- even the three layer bamboo I used, which is not very much like traditional plywood, is quite expensive. I have never seen materials like Maple or walnut available in similar form factors. At specialty wood shops in the US, you can find boards of high grade hardwood, but they are often not even planed. An exception is oak or maple from Home Depot stores, where you can get boards of moderate width (maybe up to 6") at 3/4" thickness. A layered approach with cross pieces would still be needed, perhaps something like boat building. Complex, and likely expensive.

I chose the bamboo because of a relatively unique situation of cost and performance as a manufactured wood product. I also use 12" wide boards of that, available from some wood shops by direct order (also not inexpensive!) and would go that way for front baffles and smaller cabinets. For me, LBL bamboo is an alternative to much more difficult to source material used by the really high end guys (phenolic sheet, Wilson Audio; aluminum, YG Acoustics and Magico). Also, I didn't want 350 lb. speaker cabinets!

Another possible off the beaten road source would be bench tops, for work benches; I have a massively strong work bench made of beech.



Of course, there's not reason in principal that you can't make your own thick baffles from hardwood this way, laminating them on the short side, not the edge - from any wood you want. Takes time, and a bit of coin, I think... :W

[dar47]

Just a tought. I notice that veneer is quite expensive, having it shipped to Norway is even more expensive...
At the same time, woorking with veneer over plywood/mdf does not feel like "real woodworking". I just miss that feeling of working with "real" wood.
So, instead of going down a path thats ends up in veenering, would it be doable to for example make the box in real wood, like valnut, and add extra strength by adding a layer of bamboo on the inside? Have anyone tried something lile this? Using Kitchen bench plates of wood is also an option, might be easier to source.
(I know abouts Jon's Isiris build, but that is bamboo plywood, I'm more thinking about wood not turned into plates).

If you can source some select good 2 sides random width walnut planks to rip and glue up to make the full 3" baffle (edges will show) and outer top, sides and backs? Maybe cheaper if you can plane from rough kiln dried planks. From my cabinet days, manufactures pay far less a lineal Ft. then you would but if you know someone in the industry it could be of similar cost. I would worry a bought the solid wood staying stable without a lot of movement. Using BB ply and LBL with inner MDF to make the cabinet a little less ringy will stay stable over the long haul.

[Steve Manning]

Jon, you need to find some Panzerholz Plywood apparently they used it back in the day to make, you guessed it Panzer tanks for armor. Nice and dense and very stable. This place carries it. http://www.htguide.com/forum/newrepl...treply&t=41409

Steve

[TEK]

As a possible source I would consider is kitchen tops. Maybe even used once that someone is going to throw away...
Kichen tops are available in many material, and quite easy to source. Not sure if raw valnut planks are available. Woundering if I should give a local stair producer a ring, they might have.

But for now this is just playing around with some ideas, to see if they might have some substance.

Some speakers that seems to use wood in the construction (but I might be fooled)

http://www.hifi-notes.com/sonusfaberamatifabrikage-nl.htm

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/205marten/

[benthe8track]

Well, if I ever get an inflamed sense of Hubris and delusions of competency, I'll be coming looking for you to be the production manager and industrial design director. I'm pretty good friends with one of the guys on our managing board, due to 20 years of shared audio interests, and after showing him some of the last pictures from the shop up there, his first question was, "Can you build and sell me a set, too?"

Haha maybe I'd take you up on that, making speakers is probably more fun than making oil.

Thats close... Maybe to close? Is it intentional that the wood grains on the top is from side-to-side instead of from front to back?

It's going to be tight for sure. I just ran the area in solidworks quick before I ordered, decided I should get some raw for the backs and it still is going to be real tight. Being a burl (and because it's made up of quarter matched sheets) the grain is kind of all over the place. The layout may change a bit when I can flatten it and place the templates on it. I wish it was about 4" longer then I could keep the nice book-matched pattern going from the base, facet and along the top. Ah well.

[JonMarsh]

I have preliminary BOM prepared for the Wavecor Ardent crossovers, with options- mainly, if you want to go crazy on the tweeter caps, Clarity MR's for twice the price of the Jantzen Superior Z. Not sure that's a sensible upgrade... have Solen AWG 14 inductors in several locations where there is no performance impact to reduce cost.

Looking forward to testing drivers in cabinets, probably the weekend after this coming.

[Steve Manning]

Noticed I messed up the link for the Panzerholz Plywood so lets try again http://www.delignit.de/canada/delign...tproducts.html

[benthe8track]

Noticed I messed up the link for the Panzerholz Plywood so lets try again http://www.delignit.de/canada/delign...tproducts.html

I've seen that stuff used for turntable plinths, I wonder what it's worth.

[dar47]

Weight? and your not cutting this stuff with 1.5 horse table saws and regular routers. It's hard very hard.

[JonMarsh]

Ouuurah! Veneer is here! It's all I can do to resist opening up the box it's rolled up in right now! But I just got home, gotta crash and get the car in for service early tomorrow morning. Still, it's progress!

[JonMarsh]

This morning I couldn't resist taking a peek before heading out to Starbucks and my errands for the day. It was shipped direct from the manufacturer, turns out it was from Sauers Veneers, the same brand I usually buy solid veneer locally at Woodcraft, (and the source of the birdseye maple for the facet pieces). The quality looks great and matches closely the figuring and color of the solid veneer I bought, so things are definitely looking good- I did some test veneering with Sauers solid birdseye back in 2009, and ran a test of my "proposed" lacquer finish process, and that turned out very pleasingly.

I found a shot I took back then:




I realize it's pretty hopeless to try to explain this with a picture- once it's lacquered, figured maple will change it's hue depending on the angle of light, and your viewing angle- and light areas go darker, while dark areas go lighter, like of those quasi 3D layered pictures- so while unstained unfinished figured maple may at first blush seem boring, it's anything but with a closer look when it's finished.

Picture just doesn't do it justice...

Also, it's a subtler look than I've done in the past, but something I think I'll be able to live with, without getting tired of it.

[wkhanna]

As a possible source I would consider is kitchen tops. Maybe even used once that someone is going to throw away...
Kichen tops are available in many material, and quite easy to source. Not sure if raw valnut planks are available. Woundering if I should give a local stair producer a ring, they might have.

I have also seen Corian used for baffle / panel construction.

One of those "why the hell didn't I" stories.....

I once passed up a chance to buy some used bowling alley lane panels.
Some pieces even had the inlay diamond markings........

[JonMarsh]

I have some Corian baffles that another HT Guide member got me, for building a dipole speaker... another project in still birth, like the Saint Saens dipole.

Looks like the cabinets should deliver tomorrow according to UPS Freight. Exciting... very exciting! I've got a C79 and 6640 pulled to install for measurements, and GF understands that next weekend's priority is getting measurements done with these cabinets.

[benthe8track]

I have some Corian baffles that another HT Guide member got me, for building a dipole speaker... another project in still birth, like the Saint Saens dipole.

Looks like the cabinets should deliver tomorrow according to UPS Freight. Exciting... very exciting! I've got a C79 and 6640 pulled to install for measurements, and GF understands that next weekend's priority is getting measurements done with these cabinets.

Awesome! I've been keeping an eye on the tracking too, hopefully they show up tomorrow. Hopefully that weather delay scan doesn't slow them down at all.

Progress has slowed a bit on my end. Need to flatten the raw veneer that will be used on the back before it can be bookmatched. Got the PSA veneer trimmed to size, one thing i noticed is the angles on the facet above the tweeters are slightly different than my model (well blame that on tolerance stacking) so if anyone uses that .dxf just cut a little wider than the .5" boarder I left.

[kvardas]

Jon, looking to build a pair of these. Do you where I can get a pair of the accuton C79 drivers?

Thanks

[JonMarsh]

Jon, looking to build a pair of these. Do you where I can get a pair of the accuton C79 drivers?

Thanks

Every now and then Accuton changes their part numbering system, but fortunately, not the parts! This is the current part number for the C79, available at Madisound.

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-midrange/accuton-c90-6-079-5-ceramic-dome-midrange/

[JonMarsh]

Awesome! I've been keeping an eye on the tracking too, hopefully they show up tomorrow. Hopefully that weather delay scan doesn't slow them down at all.

Progress has slowed a bit on my end. Need to flatten the raw veneer that will be used on the back before it can be bookmatched. Got the PSA veneer trimmed to size, one thing i noticed is the angles on the facet above the tweeters are slightly different than my model (well blame that on tolerance stacking) so if anyone uses that .dxf just cut a little wider than the .5" boarder I left.

Thanks for the heads up. I got enough PSA veneer (two sheets) that doing the back with that should be OK, and will only be using solid veneer for the facets. GF is alerted, and will email me if it arrives; the shipment tracking from UPS yesterday afternoon shows delivery today. Then I'll scoot up to her place and get stuff put away tonight. They'll probably wind up sitting right next to these (my British Black GC07's) for now!



(bringing over and stashing gear head project parts Sunday AM).