Zaph's new ZA5

[Ray Collins]

Has Zaph's new design the ZA5 garnered any interest? If so where is the thread???
Ray

[Winter]

See the "Drivers wanted ..." selection in the sub-forums listed at the top of this forum's page. Then look for "Zaph's new driver".

[Ray Collins]

Thanks Winter but I was asking about his new designs using the new driver. They are posted on his site http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/. Has anyone seen anything about them on any of the forums? Strange to see so little interest in them?!

Ray

[5th element]

I don't think there's a lack of interest in them, more that everything that needed to be said was said in the drivers' own thread.

The ZA14 is an excellent driver and any competent design based around it is going to be a winner.

As we all know Zaph can design really good loudspeakers, the end result should be obvious.

If you're interested in building one of the new designs based on the ZA14, I'd say go for it.

[Ray Collins]

Typically there is a flurry of posts in various forums when he introduces a new design but not this time. Just curious about the apparent apathey...

I have built (and am still using) his Seas L18 / 27TBFCG design. Very pleased with it.

Next build will be one of Jon's designs...


Ray

[Evil Twin]

My master has had me otherwise occupied, but with a modest amount of patience, you may find an answer to your request...

[Dean100]

My master has had me otherwise occupied, but with a modest amount of patience, you may find an answer to your request...

How much patience is required? :E I know with the Ardent project and RMAF you have your hands full, so not expecting anything real soon.

[---k---]

Typically there is a flurry of posts in various forums when he introduces a new design but not this time. Just curious about the apparent apathey...

I have built (and am still using) his Seas L18 / 27TBFCG design. Very pleased with it.

Next build will be one of Jon's designs...


Ray

There haven't been the flurry of build posts of Madisounds Reference Recession Busters like I would have expected. I think it is just the end of summer and people are doing other things. That, and maybe since these are full kits people don't need as much help, so there aren't the question posts. Could just also be the economy. Lots of reasons. I'm sure we'll see a few builds by Christmas.

[Jed]

There haven't been the flurry of build posts of Madisounds Reference Recession Busters like I would have expected.

Last I heard about 70 were sold. People just aren't documenting their builds. I'm sure the same applies for the hundreds of people who have built a Zaph Audio speaker (new designs and past designs), yet we don't see them here or at the other forums. It just kinda depends on who buys them, and whether or not they want to share the experience on a forum or not.

[---k---]

Jed,
Yeah. I hope you didn't take my post as any sort of negative. You basically said what I was trying to say in my third sentence. I'm still tempted as heck to buy the Reference kit. I just don't know where I would put them or who I could give my old ones too.

[Jed]

Jed,
Yeah. I hope you didn't take my post as any sort of negative.

Not at all. I agree it's weird we don't see much about these designs posted on the forums. What I've deduced is "kits" versus "fully documented designs" tend to bring a slightly different DIY crowd.

[Rick Craig]

Not at all. I agree it's weird we don't see much about these designs posted on the forums. What I've deduced is "kits" versus "fully documented designs" tend to bring a slightly different DIY crowd.

Many kit buyers rarely post on forums. When Madisound sold my SA-1 kit I would receive the names of customers and it wasn't very often that I recognized who it was.

[Steidl Guitars]

Well, if I'm any indication, at least some of us are out here, keeping kind of quiet, reading and thinking about cosmic decisions like whether to port through the bottom or rear. Plus, this is the first speaker I've built, so I feel like there's still a fair bit for me to learn before I start making sawdust.

By the way, I bought the Recession Buster kit that Jed designed and even sprung for the fancy pants crossover!

Rick, I heard your Galena at RMAF in 2007 and loved it.

[augerpro]

So you have both the Ref RB and the ZA5?

[Steidl Guitars]

Just the RB.

[Licinius]

I picked up a ZA5.2 kit a week or two ago for bedroom duty, but I've been moving/dealing with a new house, so my future shop (3rd bay in the garage) is far from operational so they're at least a month out. My second "problem" is i now have two family room areas - which means one gets to be pretty (stereo) and the other gets to be however i want it (at least 5.1) so I see even some more spending on the horizon - I'll probably end up with statements.

But yeah, I too am trying to find an excuse to pick up the RBR.

[Licinius]

Not at all. I agree it's weird we don't see much about these designs posted on the forums. What I've deduced is "kits" versus "fully documented designs" tend to bring a slightly different DIY crowd.

Probably true, esp if they buy cabinets with the kits, then there is probably less of a drive to post a thread. Even fully documented designs with pre-made cabinets (though I'm sure fairly common) aren't very well represented in build threads - since there isn't a cabinet build/finish process to take a bunch of pictures with (not that I would mind seeing them anyways, I'm always down for some vicarious living).

[jkrutke]

Thanks Winter but I was asking about his new designs using the new driver. They are posted on his site http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/. Has anyone seen anything about them on any of the forums? Strange to see so little interest in them?!

Ray

I can tell you that they are selling very well. The first batch was very large and Madisound has already ordered the next. (batch consistency data coming up)

Some of the lower interest might actually come from me, because I am avoiding discussing this on forums. I don't want to push a product that I profit from. But yes, there is a different "feel" for the community between hobbyist published designs and commercial kit designs.

I have accepted a lot of questions and I'll be publishing a FAQ soon. I've really got to get it done because some of the questions have been asked 4 or 5 times already. (No, the MMTMM doesn't make a good center, etc) Possibly because I am answering questions, there is less asking going on in the forums.

[termy]

jkrutke,
Seams as though there would be a demand for a center similar to the MMTMM so maybe you should consider this as an option if it can be done?

3 of them up front and the sealed MT for all the surrounds seams like it would be a killer system!

I'd go for it!
Termy

[DancesWithBeers]

I think that it's still too early to start seeing finished builds with these kits. People just got them and, if they're like me, it will be a month or two before the finished product can be shown/listened to.

[Jinjuku]

I have accepted a lot of questions and I'll be publishing a FAQ soon. I've really got to get it done because some of the questions have been asked 4 or 5 times already. (No, the MMTMM doesn't make a good center, etc) Possibly because I am answering questions, there is less asking going on in the forums.

LOL for a few reasons:

1. I asked my self this
2. I knew what the answer was going to be
3. Are you going to try and optimize a x-over to allow for MMTMM center? I am assuming lobing issues off axis with an array this wide.

Any ways I have the ZDT3.5's and center built. My question is: what would the MMTMM or MTMMM design be like compared to the ZDT3.5's?

Thank you so very much for your contributions. I hope you are driving a Ferrari Enzo next year due to your commercial efforts.

[MikePM]

I am another builder of Zaph's L18 (great design) that is intrigued with the new ZA5s, especially the mmtmm, and the mtmmm. However, I can't get past the ragged top end on the response curve. Now I admit that at 50, I'm probably not hearing much above 12K, but still the response on the tweeter seems erratic and not a particularly great driver.

Am I misreading the curves or overvaluing the merit of a flat top end? After the review I read on the new mid-woofer, I think these should be pared with, at least have the option of selecting, a better tweeter.

[Evil Twin]

One might well think that desirable. Yet John and Madisound must have felt that hitting a certain price point was important, perhaps in order to "widen the appeal"?

This is where the "Y" in DIY will come in.

[MikePM]

Thanks for the confirmation, but I fear that I don't yet have the skills to redo the crossover to use another tweeter. I can build a crossover and a cabinet, but don't have the confidence yet in my "y" skills for the design part.

[MikePM]

Just saw Zaph's FAQ which addresses the tweeter response. He discusses the ears perception of the high frequencies and indicates he may be willing to assist with adjusting the crossover for those who are willing to throw money at more expensive drivers.

[Evil Twin]

It is generally amusing to me the way Zaph seems to look with disdain at "throw money at more expensive drivers"; the implication (perhaps unintended) is "throw away money at more expensive drivers".

Certainly, to each their own.

[Evil Twin]

How much patience is required? :E I know with the Ardent project and RMAF you have your hands full, so not expecting anything real soon.

A test box build, acoustic evaluations, and crossover design are completed, and the demonstration cabinets nearly complete and crossover parts procured.

Due to planned activities in the Imperial center next month, the final assembly is scheduled for late October.

[fjhuerta]

My speaker budget is below zero by now. But I'm thinking about buying 4 of Zaph's drivers and building a WMTMW with the Dayton RS225.

I just need my wife to look the other way long enough do to it...

[jkrutke]

Just saw Zaph's FAQ which addresses the tweeter response. He discusses the ears perception of the high frequencies and indicates he may be willing to assist with adjusting the crossover for those who are willing to throw money at more expensive drivers.

The accurate quote from that FAQ was:

I’m sure the $13 tweeter sounds great, but compared to a $40 tweeter, how good?
Very good indeed. In fact, I chose this tweeter based almost completely on it's performance and it's small size. The fact that it only costs $13 is just a lucky bonus. To be clear though, value is important in all my designs. There are some other good small flange tweeters that perform a tiny bit better, but unfortunately they are in the $200 range.

I'm happy to pay almost anything if the performance is there. Being realistic, I know more people would rather have the DQ25 in the ZA5 designs than an expensive tweeter.

I noticed the 6020-10 tweeter just went down to $126 each (from $200). Nice small tweeter, though the sensitivity is a bit low. If going for a large flange format, the 7100 or even the 7000 would be nice. The 7100 might even allow for LR2 with the ZA14W08.

[jkrutke]

jkrutke,
Seams as though there would be a demand for a center similar to the MMTMM so maybe you should consider this as an option if it can be done?

3 of them up front and the sealed MT for all the surrounds seams like it would be a killer system!

If this were a normal commercial system, sure it could be done. Because we all know that the average commercial buyer values looks higher than sound quality. But for the ZA5.5tt, it doesn't live up to my acceptable standards for horizontal off axis response in a center channel.

[jkrutke]

My master has had me otherwise occupied, but with a modest amount of patience, you may find an answer to your request...

Thanks for posting the measurements. The tweeter response looks like a 27TDFC. Are those all going in those cool looking baffles you posted?

[Evil Twin]

Thanks for posting the measurements. The tweeter response looks like a 27TDFC. Are those all going in those cool looking baffles you posted?

Those were measured performance in the cabinet test baffle for your ZA14W08 and for the SS D2608, with which they'll be paired- a tweeter with some interesting subjective properties. And the new baffles are part of that system, also- all in all, a possible new level of Imperial excess on a smaller scale, as the system is being designed to be readily expandable to a three way with an additional unit. This will require building the base system with a double binding post connection, for independent direct access to the tweeter and midwoofer crossovers.

[Hdale85]

Kind of looks like those baffles fit on a PE enclosure....

[Bear]

The LBL looks very pretty in the photo. Is it as good in-person?

[Evil Twin]

Actually, the photograph doesn't do it justice, but at least this one has reasonable color balance unlike that from the phone camera.

[Bear]

The accurate quote from that FAQ was:



I'm happy to pay almost anything if the performance is there. Being realistic, I know more people would rather have the DQ25 in the ZA5 designs than an expensive tweeter.

I noticed the 6020-10 tweeter just went down to $126 each (from $200). Nice small tweeter, though the sensitivity is a bit low. If going for a large flange format, the 7100 or even the 7000 would be nice. The 7100 might even allow for LR2 with the ZA14W08.

I sent you a note on this, and the address bounced.

[bemis23]

My speaker budget is below zero by now. But I'm thinking about buying 4 of Zaph's drivers and building a WMTMW with the Dayton RS225.

I just need my wife to look the other way long enough do to it...

This sounds like a project I could be interested in

[Licinius]

ZA5.2 in PE Cabs... They sound very clean, and get fairly loud, decent extension, but they will soon be paired with a sub for the very low end; though they sound much "bigger" than you would expect for a 5" 2-way. I'm not very good at describing sound so I'm not really going to try, but they certainly meet my expectations, I definitely prefer them to the BAMTMs, esp in the midrange (not a big surprise...).

Gotta admit they make a sexy looking speaker...

[kevinp.]

nice looking speaker!

[---k---]

Very nice.

[evilskillit]

This speaker design reminds me of Roman's Microbes. If one were considering the microbes I wonder how these would compare? I often recommend the Vifa XT25 microbe for people who want to start out cheap, and or want a small but very accurate sounding monitor. I have a pair and am very satisfied with them for what they are. However this speaker may take it's place.

We can of course assume the crossover is very well designed, and the new Zaph woofer looks very nice, I have little doubt it would out perform the Dayton RS-125, but the Vifa XT25 is a very nice tweeter as well and I think is probably what makes the little microbes something special.

[augerpro]

The ZA14 should match well to a number of excellent tweeters. It can cross a bit higher than most metal cones (or lower order) so I think we'll see some great sounding designs with this woofer-and nicely priced too. I have a pair that I was thinking about matching to the SB29 on an MCM waveguide. That would be super cheap and probably sound quite excellent. Seas DXT would also be a solid candidate.

[schnottus]

I'm considering building my own speakers with the ZA5.3t at Madisound and am curious if any of you happen to know how these zaph speakers stack up against production speakers like Polk Lsi9's in terms of audio quality?

[DeathMonk]

I would only consider DiY if making your own speakers interests you, not because you're saving money versus a commercial offering.

Although I'm sure the ZA5.3t's sound great

[Brian Kingsbury]

I would only consider DiY if making your own speakers interests you, not because you're saving money versus a commercial offering.

Although I'm sure the ZA5.3t's sound great

You can't blame a guy for wanting to spend his money wisely. I assume you mean, however, that if the planning/designing/building process isn't someone's cup-o-tea they probably would be better off just buying a finished product.

When you buy commercial speakers, most the money isn't spent on high quality drivers. You are paying for R&D costs, cabinet construction, customer support and advertising. I was shocked to find out a $1300/pr of commercial speakers I own had a grand total of $80 worth of drivers between the two of them.

As a very general rule of thumb, you can expect to roughly spend 1/5th the money on a DIY project than you would shell out on a comparable commercial speaker. That's of course dependant on alot of things, which I'm sure you'll figure out for yourself.