Please, No Laughing, Spitting or Throwing anything at the Noob

[cjd]

P.S. Corvettes rule. :driver:

Hopefully Evil Twin doesn't get a-hold of this and identify you as a card-carrying member of the Rebel Alliance. Those Correlian vessels are a mainstay in the rebel fleet, you know.

C

[Dennis H]

But, you know, cone chasing is its own challenge,

Ah, yes, I remember it well from 'back in the day.' Of course, back then it was just friends getting together to have some fun -- no politics involved. My idea of fun was a 60's VW bug with a Porsche motor and track suspension. The guy I bought it from lost his license after two cop cars wrecked trying to catch him and the judge didn't believe his claim that the car had been stolen and he wasn't driving.

These days, I enjoy my 10-year-old Vette with an automatic. What can I say, I'm old, and who wants to deal with a clutch in city traffic? But hey, I call it my economy car because it gets 28 mpg at freeway speeds.

[kingpin]

These days, I enjoy my 10-year-old Vette with an automatic. What can I say, I'm old, and who wants to deal with a clutch in city traffic? But hey, I call it my economy car because it gets 28 mpg at freeway speeds.

What year is your car Dennis. 2005 2006.
You belong to any of the vette boards.
I consider the guys at z06vette.com like my second family.
I go by the name Kingpin there also.

Mike

[Bri]

If we're going to continue to let this thread get side-tracked by car/racing talk, did anyone see the testing Car and Driver recently did at Virginia Internaitional? They are going to try and test all cars there from now and into the future, and use the lap times as a base line of performance, because as they showed many of the new super cars only get around the track only slightly quicker than the older ones - unless the track has huge straight aways and sweeping turns that don't require lifting.

Sounds like what Top Gear does. I love watching The Stig put a car through its paces - the Koenigsegg crash was especially entertaining. My main complaint is that you can't compare all the numbers directly because the track conditions vary quite a bit in England! I'm a Viper fan btw, don't like all this Vette talk... :twisted:

[Dennis H]

Nah, mine's a 1996 basic coupe with an automatic. No frills, nothing fancy -- never considered joining a board -- it's just a car (until someone insults it of course .)

Edit: just checked the Kelly Blue Book site and it looks like I could get about $13K if I sold it. Helluva car for $13K. Kinda like the speaker values here.

[jonathanb3478]

Well, I raced a corvette once in a straight line and won - never raced 1/4 again as I found it dreadfully boring.

OK, I have never run around the twisties (why embarass me and my '00 Mustang GT manual like that, seems masochistic), but the local drag strip's Wed-night street legal drags are an excellent (legal) shot of adrennaline for only $15. Plenty of cheap fun for me, but I don't know anything better, right?

Eh. Car and driver couldn't get better than 16.1 out of my car in a 1/4 mile, so I really am not sure sometimes. I mean, the one time I go to a dragstrip, I put down times THAT much faster? Something odd. I don't trust them much.

No one should trust them. Their ET for my car is 14.2 @98mph in the 1/4. Because of them I get weird looks from 4-banger kids who spend more time "magazine racing" than they do at the drag strip, when I share my best time at the track (13.9 @ >100mph). They are often convinced no one can best what a magazine lists for a specific model. As if that is some sort of "best case" time that can't be matched by mere mortals. Makes me sick. The "magazine racers" more than the magazine, if I'm honest, I guess. ops:

These days, I enjoy my 10-year-old Vette with an automatic. What can I say, I'm old, and who wants to deal with a clutch in city traffic?

I do, I do!!! It gives me something to do during an otherwise mind-numbing commute.

I was seriously debating the auto/manual thing when I got my Mustang in '03. The autos were easier to find, locally, and I could get a better price on one. I had to go ~60 miles south to find a low mileage manual for a decent price, but I am still glad I did.

But hey, I call it my economy car because it gets 28 mpg at freeway speeds.

I get ~26.5mpg, but your car gets a good bump from better aerodynamics at highway speeds, even though it is an automatic. Also, congrats on taking such good care of it. I hope mine does well when it has a few more years on it, too.

When people who would like to go fast end up buying a Civic (40mpg/hwy) instead of a real car (read: V8 + RWD @ 26.5/hwy, like mine) because they will save <$32/month in gas, I want to cry. That assumes 12,000mi/yr @ $2.50/gal for gas. Especially after they buy their "fart can" based exhaust for >$1000, since they at least want to sound fast in their own mind. lol

It just kills me! :rofl:



I will also point out that, if money was no object, I would have gotten a low miles Corvette instead of a low miles V8 Mustang. But it is, so I didn't. I love that anything of Ford's is dirt cheap on the used market. Even the Mustang gets painted with that brush, though the V8 does not deserve it, from a reliablity standpoint.

[cjd]

Well, I drive the gas guzzlers in the family, netting ~26mpg on m short 5 mile commute to the train station (~32mpg on the ACR highway, 38mpg on the '95 highway). :P The '95 could be made into a high 13 second car without much change in that fuel economy, and I may yet go that route (got a motor in various stages of disassembly plus various other parts for that project). Someday. About 127k on the odometer and it's not complaining yet so I have some time to build the motor, freshen up the suspension, and all the rest.

Civics can go fast, but not quick. Unless you only drive above 6k rpm, which is silly. But it sure does the trick on fuel economy. Honda, of course, stands for "How Odd, No Damn Acceleration" - they're butt ugly and I don't think I could ever find myself owning one.

My wife is complaining because she's down to ~45mpg these days.

C

[kingpin]

Chris. Did I miss what car you are talking about that you race..raced.

[cjd]

Chris. Did I miss what car you are talking about that you race..raced.

Not sure I mentioned it. I have a Neon ACR (2001). ACR being American Club Racer. Very strong in the SCCA both SSC (in the rain, Erich Haschule often leads the SSB Miatas till they figure out his line - he's the guy that took the SRT-4 with the '01/02 ACR suspension package to One Lap and did so well against the Vipers and Corvettes) and Solo II but the factory stopped support with the stupid "merger" and that hurt the program a lot.

I've kinda dropped off the car scene. Club politics were ugly, but it got beyond just club politics into real politics and... ugh. bad news.

C

[kingpin]

I'd probably put money into an Elise if I were really serious about it.

Here is a little blurb from a guy on the Corvette forum comparing an Elise to his C5 Z06(older model). Thought you may find it interesting.

Well, I hate to compare the two cars, because they are so different. The first week of owning my Elise I noticed that no other car communicates as well as the Lotus. It is a no- nonsense car. Everything from the steering wheel to the shifter to the seating position is near perfect. The handling is outside the realm of any other production car including Ferrari's and Lambos that I have recently driven.
Torque is non-existent, yet I feel like a Formula 1 driver. It is hands down the greatest gearbox I have ever experienced. Not even Porsche comes close to the feel of this gearbox. This car is about one thing and one thing only, pure driving experience.
The brakes are also highly impressive, and the car stops on a dime. What I didn't expect was the attention this car gets. I still think the Z is better looking, but people freak out when they see this thing. It almost seems as though the wheel was reinvented.
Now down to business, when compared to the Z, you are comparing the difference of a rocket sled to a slot car. Point and shoot is what the Lotus does best, I certainly miss the thrust of the Vette. This is not a tire smoking, put the car sideways kind of a feel. The Vette always felt big up front, and the steering seemed to lack any kind of feel to it. This car feels more like a race car. It is certainly not for everyone. It has absolutely "NO" creature comforts, no storage, the seat only adjusts front to back, but after one week of owning it, it all but ruins you for every other car. I would recommend driving one, but a test drive is not long enough to really understand what I'm talking about

[cjd]

I'm not used to the kind of power you get in stuff like the 'vette anyhow. And I know very well the Elise is exactly my kind of driving machine. A friend of mine actually had a rough time in his mod class Mustang. Then he picked up a Neon for his daily drive and raced it with us for fun - he won CMod that year. I've been accused of getting results out of the car that would make you think it was 4wd. Blast. When you know it, does what you want. The Elise is in a whole different game. Finesse is where I like to drive. Power becomes boring once you're up to speed, you know? I hated 1/4 racing because of that.

C

[kingpin]

Alright speaker question now.
The brace that I have between the 2 12's has the 3" holes cut out so the 2 drivers share the same air space. This may sound dumb but.
I am installing the fibreglass insulation. Do I lay fibreglass over this brace and block the air holes or do I leave this brace without any insulation on it.

Image not available

Lower swiss chees brace in this picture.

[cjd]

Yeah, you would simply lay the glass in there.

That's not a final picture is it?

[kingpin]

Yeah, you would simply lay the glass in there.

That's not a final picture is it?

First you make fun of my dream car, then you put down the flag to my great country and to top it all off you mess with my footstool.... :roll: :rofl:

To top it all off you make fun of my speaker that I have sweated over for months. GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Chris. :B :B :B :B

Thanks for the confirmation.
And no. that it as earlier photo that I had with a clear shot of the bottom brace.

[jonathanb3478]

I am installing the fibreglass insulation. Do I lay fibreglass over this brace and block the air holes or do I leave this brace without any insulation on it.

You should do this brace with fiberglass the same way you did all the others with felt. Put the fiberglass on with appropriate 3" holes for air flow.


I'm sure Chris doesn't mean it the way it (constantly) comes out.

[jonathanb3478]

Power becomes boring once you're up to speed, you know? I hated 1/4 racing because of that.

lol

That is what I love about drag racing, however. You are never up to speed. Next time is faster or it is a failure in my book. I will never make it to a 3-second ET, but I will throughly enjoy my journey to as close as I can get. I say your not a 1/4 fan because you actually think you can get "up to speed" The way I think, I will try and try but never actually get "up to speed". :E

My next major step towards getting closer is a Kenne Bell blower, as well as the clutch, diff, and axles that can survive one on E/T Streets. But, first things first. I will finish paying off the car before I go down that road. :T

[---k---]

I'm not used to the kind of power you get in stuff like the 'vette anyhow. And I know very well the Elise is exactly my kind of driving machine. ... Finesse is where I like to drive. Power becomes boring once you're up to speed, you know? I hated 1/4 racing because of that.

C

Chris,

I'm with you. Before I bought my last car, I test drove a Nissian Z and hated it. Yeah, it was fast and could blast off the line, but if felt like a big slug through the corners. Once I found out that I could fit inside the new MX-5, that was about all it took. It is my almost everyday driver (Accord on bad weather days), and after 6 mo of owning it, it puts a smile on my face every time. I know it isn't the nearly fastest to drive (shoot, most luxurary 4-doors beat me to 60mph), but I don't think there is a car that is more fun to whip around corners.

I would love to be able to afford an Elise. That is one killer car. And to think, it just uses a small Toyota 4-cylinder engine. Imagine what it could do with more power. hehehehehheh

[cjd]

Fiberglass in a sub enclosure is used similarly to polyfill. Far as I know, there is no need to cut holes. IF it's the fluffy stuff. If you're talking fiberglass "board" then line the walls - not sure if you'd need to cut holes in it, but if you line braces only the first is likely to really be critical the way that is assembled.

Only reason I asked is, well... the vertical braces kinda don't seem to have holes in 'em and somehow it seems they should. :P

That is what I love about drag racing, however. You are never up to speed.

Ok, but then consider having to do this EVERY TIME YOU RACE and then having to deal with corners, slowing down *just* enough, accelerating again and sometimes accelerating where traction is an issue... Autocross, I didn't have to race the light at the start, but every other aspect of launch was no different than drag racing. Rev to 3500rpm, dump the clutch, feather the throttle if traction is an issue, otherwise get moving. :P

There comes a point where your car is the limit. I would probably enjoy fixed track racing less than Autocross, simply because the course is a known quantity. I LOVED going out and running blind (my fellow racers used to laugh at me) but it taught me how to read a course very differently. I did walk for regionals, usually just once or twice. But I also never had the "I'm going backwards today" problems at regionals almost every other racer has.

I just wish the kids would go to the dragstrip instead of finding roads they think may be clear enough at night... different issue.

And yes, the Elise uses the motor from the Celica.

C

[Lex]

Hey, wha'd you put the drink carriers in there for Kingpin? :rofl: I hope you have a good strong back looking at all that MDF. Whew. These things are going to weight about 2 tons each, looks like.

CJD, you need to talk to race car driver if you haven't already about the Neon's, he's a Neonphile.

[cjd]

CJD, you need to talk to race car driver if you haven't already about the Neon's, he's a Neonphile.

He has an SRT-4 right? I've poked my head into a car thread once or twice.

C

[jonathanb3478]

Autocross, I didn't have to race the light at the start, but every other aspect of launch was no different than drag racing.

Personally, I find half the fun of drag racing is the headgame during staging that comes from working against an opponent, as well as a timer. That is a good amount of the adrenaline, for me. Is the other guy trying to stage first? Then beat him there. That kind of stuff. Plus, it is cool to see a christmas tree all year round. Especially since I can go for $15 on any Wednesday when the track is open.

I would like to autocross, but (right now) more for the education I would get doing it than for any fun I would have. Plus, I would not want to do that in my daily driver. Drag race, yes, throw it around a (cone) track, no.

[Martyn]

You boys should try a real car...

Like mine...

[kingpin]

Like mine...

Almost as nice as this one.

Image not available

Wished I owned it.

Mike

[cjd]

They call those reel cars because the only folks that own them buy the hype hook, line, and sinker?



C

[Martyn]

Yes, but for a different kind of fishing. The E-type wasn't called the world's finest "crumpet-catcher" for nothing. Just what Mike needs!

[kingpin]

Ahem.......

I received an extremely nice package from Canada Post today.

Hmmmmmmmm. What is up on that chest over there.

Image not available

Let's go closer and get a better look at things.

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Some closer looks.

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I have to thank Chris(cjd) as he was nice enough to build these for me after I figured I was in over my head for a first attempt at building the crossovers.
Without Chris I probably would have gone through 20 rolls of solder trying to get these together. To Chris I say "Thanks buddy" and as I said in my PM I owe you one. ;x( ;x( :T :T

So pretty much all that is left is securing these bad boys to their new homes and glueing on the baffles. Maybe this weekend but I am renovating the new place I am moving into which I see as a little delay.
Soon there will be music in my life again. Damn, that sounded corny.

Mike

[kingpin]

Hey gentleman.

Is it alright to twist the internal wiring together.
For instance from:

-binding post to crossover
-crossover to driver

I would like to twist each pair of + and - wires that go from the binding posts to the crossovers and then to the drivers.

thanks
Mike

[JonMarsh]

twisted wire for individual signals is good; braided conductors for inductance cancellation is even better (like Kimber 4TC and 8TC).

Don't twist dissimilar signals togther (like tweeter and midrange).

[kingpin]

twisted wire for individual signals is good; braided conductors for inductance cancellation is even better (like Kimber 4TC and 8TC).

Don't twist dissimilar signals togther (like tweeter and midrange).

Thanks Jon. :T
Another thanks for answering in a language I can understand. :T :W
I take everything bad back that I said about your NSX. :B :B

Mike

[kingpin]

Alright. So it is understood that you do not twist dissimilar signals together.
Is it alright for dissimilar signal wires to run side by side.

I had to make a hole in one of the mid braces to bring the wires to the crossover. I currently have the wires for the mids going through that hole. Could I also pass the tweeter wires through the same hole, or should I drill another hole in the brace away from the current one.

I may sound paranoid about this stuff, but I want to do it right the first time.

[JonMarsh]

Sometimes that is unavoidable, but I'd recommend separating them if you can...

[Mazeroth]

Would you finish these things already? I'm dying to see them! :B

[kingpin]

Would you finish these things already? I'm dying to see them! :B

You didn't know. I finished these 3 months ago. I am just leading you all on. :twisted:

Also.
Thanks again Jon for the insight.

[wkhanna]

Sometimes that is unavoidable, but I'd recommend separating them if you can...

Talk about timing, I just rerouted the leads to the HF and LF terminal blocks on the xo's I'm building for my Nat Ps after reading this!

[Dennis H]

Just to clarify what Jon said (I think -- ET will choke me if I'm wrong ) running untwisted mid and tweeter wires next to each other isn't great but, if you have twisted mid and tweeter pairs, the pairs can run next to each other with no problem.

[kingpin]

Billy. What's shakin' man.
I saw your thread and you are looking good.
Thanks again for everything.

Here is the placement of the crossovers. Don't mind the wiring it is not tied down yet.

Rs270 up top
RS180 middle
RS 28 bottom

Image not available

Image not available

Just wondering if I should move them around for any reason.
I know the twist isn't that great but it's tought to twist 12 gauge ptfe. It seems to unravel a bit.

[wkhanna]

From my days way back when I was in R&D and had to build a lot of our own equipment and test set-ups, we would put the two wires in the chuck of a hand drill, one brave soul would put the drill on slow speed and the other brave soul would hold the other end of the wires with pliers, keeping just the right amount of tension on the wires. Just remember to let the wire go loose from the drill chuck first!

I had my wife hold the pliers this weekend when I was making up hook-up wire for my xo's, so don't be too intimidated.

[kingpin]

From my days way back when I was in R&D and had to build a lot of our own equipment and test set-ups, we would put the two wires in the chuck of a hand drill, one brave soul would put the drill on slow speed and the other brave soul would hold the other end of the wires with pliers, keeping just the right amount of tension on the wires. Just remember to let the wire go loose from the drill chuck first!

I had my wife hold the pliers this weekend when I was making up hook-up wire for my xo's, so don't be too intimidated.

Exactly the way I did these.
Problem is that either the wire is too thick to get a good twist or my guess the teflon coating just makes it come apart.

[wkhanna]

Yeah, the heavy gage and Teflon will make a dif, If you have some left to wind, try going tighter, the over all length will shorten significantly when you get it tight enough. After your release it from the chuck, it will relax.
Remember I said 'brave soul'; the wire will 'whip' when you release it from chuck if wound tight enough.

This may be a matter of 'overkill'!

[dlneubec]

I received an extremely nice package from Canada Post today.

Hmmmmmmmm. What is up on that chest over there.


Let's go closer and get a better look at things.



Some closer looks.




I have to thank Chris(cjd) as he was nice enough to build these for me after I figured I was in over my head for a first attempt at building the crossovers.
Without Chris I probably would have gone through 20 rolls of solder trying to get these together. To Chris I say "Thanks buddy" and as I said in my PM I owe you one. ;x( ;x( :T :T

So pretty much all that is left is securing these bad boys to their new homes and glueing on the baffles. Maybe this weekend but I am renovating the new place I am moving into which I see as a little delay.
Soon there will be music in my life again. Damn, that sounded corny.

Mike

Hey guys,

Where do you get those Euro style terminal connectors? I've been looking for some and neither PE or Madisound seem to carry them.

[Brian Bunge]

I bought some at Radio Shack.

[wkhanna]

Ditto, RS had them here in the Pittsburgh area.

[dlneubec]

Any other options? My local RS is a disaster. It no longer has any of these types of things.

[cjd]

PE had a bunch on buyout a while back, nice beefy ones that'll fit a pair of 12ga wires just fine... No longer. Radio Shack only had the strips to fit single 12ga wires well. Too bad.

C

[JonMarsh]

You can order from Radio Shack online, go to a different Radio Shack in your area, (in my tiny town in No. CA there's three, all have these terminals) or buy from conventional distributors like Digikey or Mouser.

I've been using these terminal blocks for crossovers for about 16 years.