New study says online piracy isn’t hurting entertainment industry

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  • aud19
    Twin Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2003
    • 16706

    #1

    New study says online piracy isn’t hurting entertainment industry



    For years, the entertainment industry has argued that online piracy has devastated business for movies, music and gaming.

    But a new policy brief from the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) says that not only does piracy not hurt the creative industry but it is actually helping.

    Millions of people across the globe illegally access copyrighted material on a daily basis. The most common method of digital pirating is through torrent sites, which let an individual download and upload content through a peer-to-peer file-sharing system.

    Individuals in the U.S. who are found guilty of violating digital piracy laws can face severe legal penalties, including a felony record, five years in prison and $250,000 in penalties.

    In the briefing, authors Bart Cammaerts, Robin Mansell and Bingchun Meng call on governments to re-evaluate their antipiracy laws to include data from studies beyond those directly sponsored by the entertainment industry itself.

    “Contrary to the industry claims, the music industry is not in terminal decline, but still holding ground and showing healthy profits. Revenues from digital sales, subscription services, streaming and live performances compensate for the decline in revenues from the sale of CDs or records,” Cammaerts said in report carried by the site TorrrentFreak.

    In a separate story, TorrentFreak says that independent data actually suggests that those who pirate content are also more likely to spend their money on film, music and gaming content.

    A June 2013 study found that roughly 45 percent of all Americans pirate copyrighted content on a regular basis, including 70 percent of those under 30.

    In the LSE report’s key messages, the authors say that evidence does not back up claims that individual cases of copyright infringement are affecting entertainment industry revenues, that antipiracy laws around the world are not achieving their desired impacts and that governments should update their policies to include more evidence from a diverse set of sources.

    “Despite the Motion Picture Association of America’s (MPAA) claim that online piracy is devastating the movie industry, Hollywood achieved record-breaking global box office revenues of $35 billion in 2012, a 6% increase over 2011,” the report states.

    And while music sales have faced steeper declines in recent years, the authors say those numbers have largely been balanced out by increased sales in live performance and other outlets.

    “The music industry may be stagnating, but the drastic decline in revenues warned of by the lobby associations of record labels is not in evidence,” the authors write.

    Interestingly, in the same Columbia University study, which found that nearly half of all U.S. Internet users pirate copyrighted material, nearly half of those individuals say they would willingly pay a monthly fee for unlimited access to multimedia content.

    And the LSE study authors say that is one possible solution for the entertainment industry going forward as a way to bridge the gap between content providers and consumers.

    “Within the creative industries there is a variety of views on the best way to benefit from online sharing practices, and how to innovate to generate revenue streams in ways that do not fit within the existing copyright enforcement regime,” the authors conclude.

    “When both [the creative industries and citizens] can exploit the full potential of the Internet, this will maximize innovative content creation for the benefit of all stakeholders.”
    Jason
  • impala454
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Oct 2007
    • 3815

    #2
    So does that make it ok?
    -Chuck

    Comment

    • Kevin P
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 10812

      #3
      How much money did they spend to figure out something we've all known all along?

      Piracy isn't the reason for reduced music sales. Crappy music is!

      Comment

      • aud19
        Twin Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2003
        • 16706

        #4
        Originally posted by impala454
        So does that make it ok?
        Nope.

        Originally posted by Kevin P
        How much money did they spend to figure out something we've all known all along?

        Piracy isn't the reason for reduced music sales. Crappy music is!
        That and the industry clinging to archaic business models that don't fit with the year they're in. There's actually plenty of excellent music out there, it's just largely not through the dinosa... err major labels :lol:
        Jason

        Comment

        • Dmantis
          Super Senior Member
          • Jun 2004
          • 1037

          #5
          Originally posted by Kevin P
          How much money did they spend to figure out something we've all known all along?

          Piracy isn't the reason for reduced music sales. Crappy music is!
          I so agree.

          Comment

          • madmac
            Ultra Senior Member
            • Aug 2010
            • 3122

            #6
            I buy my CD's for critical music listening. I also buy them because I mostly listen to obscure jazz and jazz vocalists that I couldn't download, even if I wanted to because there not available for download. As well, I also rent my dvd's so all's good with me on the legal front. However, in terms of the 'crappy' commercial stuff......yes......it is readily available for downloading which is why 70% of people under 30 do it. It's not worth buying anyway!!.
            Dan Madden :T

            Comment

            • PewterTA
              Super Senior Member
              • Nov 2004
              • 2900

              #7
              It's a little 50/50 for me. I agree, piracy is wrong and it shouldn't be. I also think on the other side, it's tough to see people struggling to live and spend their hard earned money to buy a CD or album that, especially these days, are sometimes pretty bad. And the artists are living the life we'd all love to get to and most will never. So when you see them wrecking their 1.2 Million dollar car on a night out and it's no big deal... I have a little bit of a tough time supporting a lot of those artists. Now I know there's thousands of people behind the scenes that no purchasing effects...so for those people I feel for. It's the balance of the whole thing that I just have a tough time with it.

              So with the way the economy is... I can't necessarily blame the little person for participating as long as that little person is buying when they can and supporting the groups that they truly appreciate their work.

              The other thing that's leading the charge is the fact that there's so much music that's not available from the online distributors that the underground movement of hi-res vinyl rips is leading the way in this side of things. And often the quality of the music on those vinyl rips is far superior to anything that you can get on most if not all digital releases by the management studios.

              If anyone could follow it, I'm sure there's more of a correlation between quality of studios releases and how much is actually bought. Brickwalling and taking the life out of music I think really hits us on the subconscious level.
              Digital Audio makes me Happy.
              -Dan

              Comment

              • madmac
                Ultra Senior Member
                • Aug 2010
                • 3122

                #8
                These 'commercial' artists do quite well making a million+ bucks a show, selling out large arenas with their $250-500 buck ticket prices. That's where they make their money nowadays!.
                Dan Madden :T

                Comment

                • Hdale85
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 16120

                  #9
                  If you think the artist is making a million+ per show you don't know how the music industry works lol. There's a reason people are trying to make their own labels all over now days.

                  Comment

                  • bigburner
                    Super Senior Member
                    • May 2005
                    • 2649

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hdale85
                    If you think the artist is making a million+ per show you don't know how the music industry works lol. There's a reason people are trying to make their own labels all over now days.
                    Agreed. As Hunter S. Thompson supposedly said "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

                    Who knows whether he actually said that but it's a great quote.

                    Nigel.

                    Comment

                    • Chris D
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Dec 2000
                      • 16875

                      #11
                      "The trouble with quotes on the internet is not knowing whether they are real"

                      - Abraham Lincoln
                      CHRIS

                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                      - Pleasantville

                      Comment

                      • wkhanna
                        Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 5674

                        #12
                        In the new landscape that is today's music industry, crowd funding, as a business model, is becoming more & more mainstream as artists look for ways to adapt that will work well enough to support their costs to produce music. http://www.chrisjonesblog.com/2013/0...of-asking.html

                        Also, David Byrne, who one day will be revealed to be the creator of the universe, has some ideas regarding the current state of affairs in the industry.

                        Survival Strategies for Emerging Artists

                        'The internet will suck all creative content out of the world'
                        _


                        Bill

                        Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                        ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                        FinleyAudio

                        Comment

                        • impala454
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 3815

                          #13
                          Very interesting article Bill. I had no idea it was that bad (given the Daft Punk example).
                          For perspective, Daft Punk's song of the summer, "Get Lucky", reached 104,760,000 Spotify streams by the end of August: the two Daft Punk guys stand to make somewhere around $13,000 each.
                          What I want to know then, is if they only make that much, how much did Spotify make? I.e. was the total revenue for that song $28,000, or was it $150,000? It makes a big difference on whether the artist is really getting stiffed or not. A quick and dirty googling shows Spotify's 2012 revenue to be $577 million. If we assumed every one of their 20 million songs got equal play time, that's $28.85 per song, per year, on average. So if Daft Punk made $26,000, perhaps that's good then. They're essentially being paid to promote their own music.

                          And supposedly Spotify isn't really cashing in on them anyways: http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/31/45...ut-losses-grow . They're not even profitable because people choose to just listen to the stupid ads instead of pay the paltry $5-10/mo.

                          The problem for me is convenience. I do tend to still buy CDs (or high res when available) for stuff I really like, but for regular, every day, sitting around at my desk at work listening, I use Google Music. There's no incentive for me not to. For example: I have a large score soundtrack playlist. While I have purchased several of them on CD, it would probably cost me about $200 to purchase the rest, so I could rip them and copy them to wherever I'd like to listen. Why would I do that? It's a good example too because while I might listen to a rock band's entire CD, I typically wouldn't listen to more than a couple of the songs off of a score soundtrack.

                          The article points out a very real problem, but there seems to be no solution. If the artists pull out en masse, they'll be seen as money grabbers and lose popularity. Honestly it's not 100% streaming services' fault, IMHO it all started with iTunes and the ability to pay $1 for individual songs instead of buying entire albums. Now only the top songs get listened to and nobody hears the full gambit of what the musician intended. Perhaps it will right itself in the sense that the streaming companies aren't making any money and they'll simply fold at some point.
                          -Chuck

                          Comment

                          • wkhanna
                            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 5674

                            #14
                            Originally posted by impala454
                            IMHO it all started with iTunes and the ability to pay $1 for individual songs instead of buying entire albums. Now only the top songs get listened to and nobody hears the full gambit of what the musician intended.
                            Not disagreeing, but in my youth, 45's were quite popular & pretty much dominated airplay on the radio waves.


                            Originally posted by impala454
                            Perhaps it will right itself in the sense that the streaming companies aren't making any money and they'll simply fold at some point.
                            More likely that one huge corporation will consume the competitors in buyouts & monopolize the market based on recent history.
                            _


                            Bill

                            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                            FinleyAudio

                            Comment

                            • Ovation
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 2204

                              #15
                              I used to buy 45s to "try out" a band or artist and then get the album if I liked them (it was always a bonus if the B-side was not on the album). I use iTunes the same way. I'll try a song or two first and, if I like the band, I get the album (either via iTunes if it's highly compressed pop music anyway, or on CD or SACD if it is something I believe is well-enough recorded to merit the lossless purchase).

                              One thing iTunes offers (as do many other sites--I just use Apple products because I'm already in that system with my equipment: laptop, Mac Mini, iPhone, Airport routers, etc.) that I think is great is the ability to sample a fair portion of a song/track. This allows a kind of exploration not available back in the days of 45s and I would hope it makes choosing a whole album a more informed decision. I have no idea if the samples increase or do not influence music sales, though. I just like the fact they are there as a browsing tool. They have increased my purchases of music from artists I might otherwise have ignored.

                              Comment

                              • aud19
                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 16706

                                #16
                                Originally posted by wkhanna
                                In the new landscape that is today's music industry, crowd funding, as a business model, is becoming more & more mainstream as artists look for ways to adapt that will work well enough to support their costs to produce music. http://www.chrisjonesblog.com/2013/0...of-asking.html

                                Also, David Byrne, who one day will be revealed to be the creator of the universe, has some ideas regarding the current state of affairs in the industry.

                                Survival Strategies for Emerging Artists

                                'The internet will suck all creative content out of the world'
                                Great links/articles :T
                                Jason

                                Comment

                                • impala454
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2007
                                  • 3815

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by wkhanna
                                  More likely that one huge corporation will consume the competitors in buyouts & monopolize the market based on recent history.
                                  But they still have to be profitable eventually.
                                  -Chuck

                                  Comment

                                  • Hdale85
                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 16120

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by impala454
                                    Very interesting article Bill. I had no idea it was that bad (given the Daft Punk example).

                                    What I want to know then, is if they only make that much, how much did Spotify make? I.e. was the total revenue for that song $28,000, or was it $150,000? It makes a big difference on whether the artist is really getting stiffed or not. A quick and dirty googling shows Spotify's 2012 revenue to be $577 million. If we assumed every one of their 20 million songs got equal play time, that's $28.85 per song, per year, on average. So if Daft Punk made $26,000, perhaps that's good then. They're essentially being paid to promote their own music.
                                    Well I think the real question is how much are the labels making off them? That's how I'd determine if they are getting stiffed, I don't think anyone is under the delusion that retailers and service providers like Spotify are making huge profits off these artists, if anything they as well are getting stiffed.

                                    Comment

                                    • PewterTA
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2004
                                      • 2900

                                      #19
                                      But the labels HAVE TO make huge profits!!!! So they say. And they always go back to the "for every successful artist, we've paid 20 not successful artists money." So really they want to say that for all their screw ups.... they need paid.

                                      Maybe we need to start going back to a world where we tell some artists... "Yeah you're not that good." Instead of everyone is great and everyone that can sing or play or whatever should get a record deal.

                                      I guess I'm jaded as in the IT field it feels like sink or swim... well mainly it does.... there's a lot of IT people out there that have no clue what they are doing.
                                      Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                      -Dan

                                      Comment

                                      • impala454
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2007
                                        • 3815

                                        #20
                                        But that's the thing guys, it doesn't appear that anyone is making a direct profit from the streaming services.
                                        -Chuck

                                        Comment

                                        • wkhanna
                                          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Jan 2006
                                          • 5674

                                          #21
                                          Your business does not have to be making money to be bought up for millions$ by someone like Google, Apple, MS or the like.
                                          It need only to fill a niche & have good exposure for the big guys to find value in it.
                                          This type of speculative buying is standard business practice.
                                          Their never ending struggle is to beat out the competition in the hi-tech market place & monopolize the 'next big thing'.
                                          _


                                          Bill

                                          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                          FinleyAudio

                                          Comment

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