Anamorphic = Difference?

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  • Bing Fung
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 6521

    Anamorphic = Difference?

    I presented this elsewhere but thought you guys may be interested....

    I tried to capture a comparision between anamorphic and non anamorphic on my system. My XBR does the compression if the DVD player is set to 16x9. While the pictures hardly do real justice to the differences, I find in actual viewing situations it is extremely different than a single frame shows. These are images taken from my XBR. They were captured with a Nikon coolpics 990 digital camera. They have been resize to 1280x1024 from the 2048x1536 native resolution of the camera. The difference is greatly dimminished from the down sizing of the resolution. If anyone would like I can send them the full sized images, but be warned they are big 1.3Mb each image.

    I also had to crop ala P/S to keep the image size down, not much but it is not OAR now





    You be the judge to which is which...

    Those picture above do not capture the full gains of doing this compression. A single frame cannot show the motion artifacts that occur during down conversion in a moving picture.




    Bing
    Bing
  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15214

    #2
    Just on a scan line difference, it is a 33% difference in vertical resolution. However, in downconverting, some horizontal filtering has to be done also, to reduce twittering and other artifacts.

    You didn't mention if your set has an internal line doubler; I assume (perhaps not justifiably) that you aren't using a progressive DVD player yet. You ought to see DVD in progressive format, scaled to 1280X720P. Then, a good disk really shines.
    What you are illustrating is one reason, given my limited budget, that my first priority on disk purchases are anamorphic/16X9 enhanced disks. There's a lot more future value there, than in letterboxed disks.

    Happy viewing!

    Regards,

    Jon




    Earth First!
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    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
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    Comment

    • Huskerduck
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Oct 2000
      • 129

      #3
      Non anamorphic DVDs that Impress me are "Contact" as well as "Armeggedon"
      I wish I could say the same for the Abyss even with Progressive scan




      Mark


      Ducks Meager Theater
      Mark


      Ducks Meager Theater

      Comment

      • Jehan
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2000
        • 613

        #4
        Correct me if I am wrong but Contact is a 2.35:1 anamorphic transfer.

        Comment

        • Huskerduck
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Oct 2000
          • 129

          #5
          I think I remember reading several articles last year that Contact was infact missprinted "enhanced for widescreen" but actually isnt.
          I myself find this amazing , but Im sure it was Contact that I read about




          Mark


          Ducks Meager Theater
          Mark


          Ducks Meager Theater

          Comment

          • Bing Fung
            Ultra Senior Member
            • Aug 2000
            • 6521

            #6
            Correct Jehan, Contact is anamorphic.

            Jon, when I compare my DVD output on my PC from my 19" FP950 NEC monitor, the XBR actually doesn't give up much at all to a progressive signal. Now if that signal was P, line doubled.... I'm sure the XBR couldn't compete.

            When I got into this hobby, I didn't know or care about anamorphic, I just bought DVDs. Now that I can see the differences, I can't go back to non-anamorphic. Those disks in my collection see little if any playtime now.




            Bing
            Bing

            Comment

            • Matt Broeska
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2000
              • 121

              #7
              anamorphic is totally where it's at. top gun and silence of the lambs don't even touch even my worst anamorphic disc on my 16x9 set.
              Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
              That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

              Comment

              • Bing Fung
                Ultra Senior Member
                • Aug 2000
                • 6521

                #8
                Matt, I take it that TG and SOTL is non-anamorphic?

                I really wanted TG at sometime as well, guess not now.

                I would have to say my dissapointments would be Abyss, Armaggedon(Criterion)& The Rock. Man, I picked up the Abyss and put it back down more times than I can remember. The only reason I did not buy it was because of NA, I even rented it to see how well I would like it, and though it was a good tranfer for NA, I just couldn't do it.




                Bing
                Bing

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 15214

                  #9
                  Hi Bing,

                  When you move up in screen size, (beyond a "small" 36" direct view ) then the progressive scan has more impact on perceived clarity and freedom from motion artifacts. Your Sony XBR probably has their DRC, which is a line doubler, but not 3:2 pulldown processing, so it's not a true progressive with film sources.
                  On the PC, a good test is with a 19" or 21" monitor, scaling WINDVD to 1280X720, with either a Radeon or Geforce type card. This is, in my opinion, as good as DVD gets- and it's pretty dang good! Another resolution that looks quite good (maybe best, overall) is 1440X960, but far fewer displays (projectors, anyway) can support that.

                  Regards,

                  Jon




                  Earth First!
                  _______________________________
                  We'll screw up the other planets later....
                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
                  Modula Neo DCC
                  Modula MT XE
                  Modula Xtreme
                  Isiris
                  Wavecor Ardent

                  SMJ
                  Minerva Monitor
                  Calliope
                  Ardent D

                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                  Modula PWB
                  Calliope CC Supreme
                  Natalie P Ultra
                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment

                  • Bing Fung
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 6521

                    #10
                    OK, that puts me in my current station in life....

                    You don't have to hard sell the progressive to me, I believe it to be better, however, given my limited equipment (read small display) Progressive is wasted on me.

                    :B :W and all the other required stuff




                    Bing
                    Bing

                    Comment

                    • Bing Fung
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 6521

                      #11
                      Here is a good List of available anamorphic tiles. I know most new releases are now a days, but this helps with the older titles.

                      Enjoy!




                      Bing
                      Bing

                      Comment

                      • Lexman
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Jun 2000
                        • 1777

                        #12
                        Here is what it looks like to me.

                        Picture two looks to be progressive. Picture one looks to be interlaced. What does this mean? I have no idea. I never said I was a video guy, did I?

                        Relating to anamorphic vs. not, I say the first pic is anamorphic.

                        I further, and most importantly say:

                        Bing has the hots for Gwyneth. :B

                        Lex





                        <A HREF="http://www.catcables.com" <IMG SRC="http://www.htguide.com/lexman/other/sm_logo.gif"

                        Comment

                        • Bing Fung
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 6521

                          #13
                          Neither are progressive

                          And Gwyneth doesn't hurt the eyes too badly :B




                          Bing
                          Bing

                          Comment

                          • Lexman
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Jun 2000
                            • 1777

                            #14
                            So, when are you announcing the anamorphic?

                            Nope, Gwyneth isn't to bad at all.

                            Lex

                            Comment

                            • Bing Fung
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 6521

                              #15
                              Sorry, I thought it was known.... :O

                              The first one is. Look at the detail in Gwyneth's eyes, her lips, that come hither look that... Ahem, notice the beading and intricacies in her outfit, those glowing cheeks, that I'm a nice girl, but bab.... Oh, would you look at the time!




                              Bing
                              Bing

                              Comment

                              • Andrew Pratt
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 16507

                                #16
                                looking at that image really makes me wonder about my plans to buy a 4:3 set that won't do the squeeze. I can't really afford one that will so a large 4:3 is still all I'll be able to do for the time being anyway...damn you Bing ignorance is bliss




                                Comment

                                • Bing Fung
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 6521

                                  #17
                                  Sorry Andrew.... You will make up for it in size factor.

                                  You are right though, you become accustomed to what you have, Ignorance can be Bliss.

                                  Sometimes I wish I could unlearn and just enjoy things at it's simpliest denominator




                                  Bing
                                  Bing

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 15214

                                    #18
                                    Bing,

                                    We have an old saying; this stuff is like a diode; progress goes in one direction, and once you've seen or heard the better stuff, it's pretty hard to go back.

                                    Bing, when you took the pictures, what shutter speed were you using? If you're freeze framing, you're getting a static conversion from interlaced to progressive if your shutter speed is 1/30 of a second or greater.

                                    To really appreciate the differenc, one could watch this movie on my Toshiba SD6100 player on the 50" Toshiba in my daughter's room, then watch it on my NEC at 1280X720P. I can't handle a 50" interlaced image anymore; it's just too distracting with the combing artifacts on motion, and the scan lines twittering about.

                                    Happy weekend, everyone.

                                    -Jon




                                    Earth First!
                                    _______________________________
                                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                    the AudioWorx
                                    Natalie P
                                    M8ta
                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                    Modula MT XE
                                    Modula Xtreme
                                    Isiris
                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                    SMJ
                                    Minerva Monitor
                                    Calliope
                                    Ardent D

                                    In Development...
                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                    Obi-Wan
                                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                    Modula PWB
                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                    Comment

                                    • Lexman
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2000
                                      • 1777

                                      #19
                                      Yes, it's day and night difference in these two shots. Really an extroidinary comparison. Great job Bing.

                                      Lex

                                      Comment

                                      • Andrew Pratt
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16507

                                        #20
                                        Jon you have a 50" tosh in your daughters room! Lucky girl




                                        Comment

                                        • Bing Fung
                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 6521

                                          #21
                                          Jon, I seem to have turfed the file that listed the shutter speed. I think it was slower than 1/30 though, as I took the shot with the camera on a tripod in a dark room, with no flash.

                                          Certainly the non anamorphic image is worse than the static picture can emulate, just as you said. I agree, the larger the image, the more pronounced it will be. That is why I bought a direct view over a RPTV. At the time there were not many TV's that could compress, any RPTV that could compress was more than my budget allowed. I really fought long and hard over the size, quality thing in my price range.

                                          Your daughter is a lucky girl, I thought I was over doing it after just installing a 21" TV in my daughter's room...




                                          Bing
                                          Bing

                                          Comment

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