Wonder if this will be a hot A/V product by XMAS?

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15329

    Wonder if this will be a hot A/V product by XMAS?

    Well, no one ever said Sony doesn't march to their own drummer compared with most of the world- the interesting question will be, who else will want to join the parade? This COULD be a pretty classy way for some to upgrade both their video and audio experience....

    Sony has announced the debut of the DVP-S9000ES, the company's first video product to carry the prestigious ``ES'' designation, previously only featured on high-end audio products. The DVP-S9000ES features 480 progressive video output via advanced MPEG image processing, along with the superb audio attributes of the Super Audio CD format. It's designed for those consumers seeking unparalleled video/audio performance as well as stand-alone audio performance with SACD playback capability and Sony's most advanced CD design.

    From my perspective, the question would be, how does it match up to the SCD-1 or SCD777ES? It could be a great family room piece, provided you have a progressive compatible display, and aren't interested in HTPC. Since HTPC is my middle name (for nearly 3 years), my interest is primarily finding a unit I feel comfortable recommending to non PC lovers who want to upgrade video and audio.

    Availability reportedly slated for November.

    Let's see who spots one out in the wilds first this season.....

    Regards,

    Jon




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  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10933

    #2
    A look inside







    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • Bing Fung
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 6521

      #3
      Wow! That's nice, I'm wanting one and i don't even have a Progressive TV.... I will someday but I want it for the that and the SACD!

      Any Idea of price, $1700 to low?




      Bing
      Bing

      Comment

      • ThomasW
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 10933

        #4
        Bing

        List is supposed to be $1500.




        theAudioWorx
        Klone-Audio

        IB subwoofer FAQ page


        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

        Comment

        • Bing Fung
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 6521

          #5
          $1500? Not bad at all, I hope they do something about that gold color, it's not that I don't like it, but I just got rid of most of my gold Luxman stuff.




          Bing
          Bing

          Comment

          • ThomasW
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 10933

            #6
            All the pics I've seen other than this, are black




            theAudioWorx
            Klone-Audio

            IB subwoofer FAQ page


            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

            Comment

            • Phil Rose
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2000
              • 142

              #7
              I've always wondered what the functions of the large 20-pin connectors on the back are. Does anyone know? It could be a clue as to what Sony has up their sleve WRT displays, audio components, etc.

              Comment

              • ThomasW
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 10933

                #8
                Phil

                Don't know so far no info from Sony or anyone else. The connectors certainly make me curious.




                theAudioWorx
                Klone-Audio

                IB subwoofer FAQ page


                "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                Comment

                • John Beavers
                  Member
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 34

                  #9
                  I'm very tempted by this product. As I don't currently have a DVD player, it's really time to decide. A/V withdrawls started setting in last night. My concern is "all this" for only $1500? SACD, Progressive Scan, ES quality electronics! Is Sony underpricing to grab the market? The reason I sold my 7700 was that it's CD playback quality was not the equal of what I was used to with my dedicated gear, which is now sold. My search is for a DVD/CD player that do both very well. I want SACD, but just how good is the player with regualar CDs? That's the only concern that's holding me back.

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10933

                    #10
                    Ok Bing, this ones for you


                    John, I'm afraid only an audition will tell. Historically DVD players have had significantly more problems with jitter than dedicated CD players. Who knows if this is going to change?




                    theAudioWorx
                    Klone-Audio

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • JonMarsh
                      Mad Max Moderator
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 15329

                      #11
                      Thomas is right, re jitter, it's because of the "cheezo" clock techniques DVD players have used to save bucks- remember, DD output is 96 kHz, 1/2 is 48 kHz, but CD is 44 kHz, so they usually use a phase lock loop instead of a CD crystal master oscillator.

                      Actually, those pic's TW found are very interesting- that's a heck of a build quality for a supposedly $1500 component- based on build, I would expect them to list for $2000 to $2500. Obviously a very good power supply, solid mechanical construction (well, not as solid as an SCD-1 or 777ES, BUT!! whaddya expect for that kind of money!?!
                      Vewy, vewy nice looking! Makes me wish I needed a progessive scan DVD player instead of my HTPC's. BTW, the Sony is suppsed to used 4X oversampling and filtering in the video department, with 54 MHz DAC's so it's no slouch there, either.

                      Regards,

                      Juan




                      Earth First!
                      _______________________________
                      We'll screw up the other planets later....
                      the AudioWorx
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                      In Development...
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                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 15329

                        #12
                        Well, if I post again, is this like talking to myself?
                        This unit isn't up on the US web site, but ThomasW's post points out you to the wonderful folks across the border who can read about it- and it reads like a tech head's wish list of what they want in their progressive DVD player, with top notch audio to boot!
                        If spec previews mean anything, Sony may bat another one out of the ballpark with this puppy, rivalling even their landmark introduction of the DVPS7000, which in it's time was the classiest DVD player available- I should know, I owned one! (yeah, I have a problem with early adopter syndrome). Now it's a chotsky on ThomasW's floor. Poor thing! Someone needs to give it a desrving home! Tom says it's his backup in case he hose's the HTPC I built for him- well, I guess that will have to do.

                        Regards,

                        Jon




                        Earth First!
                        _______________________________
                        We'll screw up the other planets later....
                        the AudioWorx
                        Natalie P
                        M8ta
                        Modula Neo DCC
                        Modula MT XE
                        Modula Xtreme
                        Isiris
                        Wavecor Ardent

                        SMJ
                        Minerva Monitor
                        Calliope
                        Ardent D

                        In Development...
                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                        Obi-Wan
                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                        Modula PWB
                        Calliope CC Supreme
                        Natalie P Ultra
                        Natalie P Supreme
                        Janus BP1 Sub


                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

                        • Bing Fung
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 6521

                          #13
                          That's the one Thomas!, looks like I better start saving inorder to have it for Xmas :W

                          I'll need to go to my local Sony Store to look at these or at least audition one like yours.




                          Bing
                          Bing

                          Comment

                          • KennyG
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Sep 2000
                            • 745

                            #14
                            Beautiful...but I think when I do finally take the progressive plunge it'll be with HTPC.

                            Comment

                            • JonMarsh
                              Mad Max Moderator
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 15329

                              #15
                              Why not both? Well, seriously, I'd guess not, though if I had just an HDTV set instead of high res displays, the Sony would probably be just fine instead of the HTPC.

                              On another note, U.S. web site info is now available, see




                              Note that it does claim to use the VC24 digital filter used in the playback system (for CD) in the SCD-1 and SCD777ES. Interesting....




                              Earth First!
                              _______________________________
                              We'll screw up the other planets later....
                              the AudioWorx
                              Natalie P
                              M8ta
                              Modula Neo DCC
                              Modula MT XE
                              Modula Xtreme
                              Isiris
                              Wavecor Ardent

                              SMJ
                              Minerva Monitor
                              Calliope
                              Ardent D

                              In Development...
                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                              Obi-Wan
                              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                              Modula PWB
                              Calliope CC Supreme
                              Natalie P Ultra
                              Natalie P Supreme
                              Janus BP1 Sub


                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                              Comment

                              • JonMarsh
                                Mad Max Moderator
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 15329

                                #16
                                There's an interesting reveiw of a "competitive" product from Technics, a new DVD-A player with DVD-Audio output, and progressive scan video. Interestingly, besides noting that the available DVD-A disks were not comparable to SACD titles, making judging audio capabilities a moot point, the DVD Video output (not progressive!) was found to be inferior in picture quality to the Sony S7000, particularly it's down conversion for conventional 4:3 sets. It does have a nice looking front panel, though- maybe nicer than the Sony. So, depending on your priorities.....

                                Regards,

                                Jon




                                Earth First!
                                _______________________________
                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                the AudioWorx
                                Natalie P
                                M8ta
                                Modula Neo DCC
                                Modula MT XE
                                Modula Xtreme
                                Isiris
                                Wavecor Ardent

                                SMJ
                                Minerva Monitor
                                Calliope
                                Ardent D

                                In Development...
                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                Obi-Wan
                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                Modula PWB
                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                Natalie P Ultra
                                Natalie P Supreme
                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                Comment

                                • Bing Fung
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 6521

                                  #17
                                  Taking the plunge with both would be simple enough, all you have to do is add a DVD player to you PC :B

                                  Seriously, I have what can be considered a HTPC (Pioneer DVD, Matrox G400Max) and I found it can be a pain to use at times. I was out putting to my TV when my DVD console was in for firmware upgrades. Navigation was a drag unless you have a wireless keyboard, and still, sometimes the picture quality would glich out or not play on the first insertion of the disk...etc. It's not what you would call real user friendly and error free player, unlike a dedicated console.




                                  Bing
                                  Bing

                                  Comment

                                  • DavidY
                                    Member
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 67

                                    #18
                                    Looks like a perfect match for my Sony 777ES receiver.

                                    If CD playback on this player is great, then I think that I may have found my next component to upgrade.

                                    Too bad that I don't have a HDTV-ready TV to use it's progressive scan capabilities.

                                    Can't wait for any detailed reviews on this component.

                                    Dave

                                    Comment

                                    • John Beavers
                                      Member
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 34

                                      #19
                                      I've found a place online that's offering it for $1075! Wouldn't receive shipment of it till the end of November, but for the savings it would be worth it.

                                      Comment

                                      • ThomasW
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 10933

                                        #20
                                        Bing

                                        Why don't you start a thread on the "tower of power" regarding this. My HTPC was built and configured by Jon and it runs flawlessly. There are some "tricks of the trade" and Jon knows most all of them, because he invented most of them along with Mark Rejon.

                                        I have a wired keyboard. But use a cordless mouse, and it's pretty much all that's needed to play a movie.




                                        theAudioWorx
                                        Klone-Audio

                                        IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                        Comment

                                        • Bing Fung
                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 6521

                                          #21
                                          I may have to Thomas, currently i can't get sound to my PC system from my pioneer drive. it may be related to thesoftware i'm using to get 5.1 output from my Soundblaster live. It's not important right now. But certainly I have notice problems in the Bob weave...etc, as some times my image will just do a quick pixelation.




                                          Bing
                                          Bing

                                          Comment

                                          • Lexman
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Jun 2000
                                            • 1777

                                            #22
                                            Good idea Thomas

                                            That is a nice looking piece too! I will try to ask Jariten about this. He is not only in Japan, but also is an electrical engineer. So, if anyone can assist with info, it would be him.

                                            Lex

                                            Comment

                                            • Audioclyde
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 28

                                              #23
                                              OK, I'll show my ignorance here--word on the street is that Pioneer's expensive ($5k) universal player converts SACD's DSD to PCM; I realize the Sony doesn't do DVD-Audio, but does anyone know if it also converts DSD to PCM?

                                              Comment

                                              • JonMarsh
                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 15329

                                                #24
                                                In a single word, no. Sony hasn't used a PCM converter in a CD player in a long, LONG time! Even for CD, they've been a die hard proponent of single bit/lo bit mega oversampling converters for a long time. Like it's bigger brothers, the DVP9000ES uses the new VC24 digital filter, which takes the PCM, does oversampling, filtering, and conversion, and outputs a high bit rate DSD type of signal to the S-TACT system, which then drives the actual current pulse DAC. The S-TACT module, the current pulse D/A, and the I/V converters are all common to both the CD playback path and the SACD playback path. The requirements for supporting SACD raise the overall performance level substantially over what is reuqired for "16/44 Redbook CD".
                                                What I haven't been able to determine is if the DVP9000ES will offer the different filter coefficients and over/upsampling modes that the SCD-1 and SCD777ES do. I really hope so, because I much prefer the DF3 for CD playback. Your mileage may vary, of course.

                                                Regards,

                                                Jon

                                                P.S. Now, if they could just pack that all into a DVD Walkman with SACD- can you imagine what that would cost?




                                                Earth First!
                                                _______________________________
                                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                the AudioWorx
                                                Natalie P
                                                M8ta
                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                Modula MT XE
                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                Isiris
                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                SMJ
                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                Calliope
                                                Ardent D

                                                In Development...
                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                Obi-Wan
                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                Modula PWB
                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                Comment

                                                • Lexman
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Jun 2000
                                                  • 1777

                                                  #25
                                                  This just in....... Direct from Sony connection in Japan. How's that for scrapping for information? lol.


                                                  "Price in Japan (list is) 200000Yen
                                                  those connectors are like SCART (RGB connectors) used in france for D-3 or D-4 Digital TV output."

                                                  Lex

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Jariten
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jun 2000
                                                    • 271

                                                    #26
                                                    Hello Everyone...

                                                    I was asked about this player from your favorite Administrator Lexman

                                                    I sent him the results of my search of the unit in Tokyo.
                                                    He will edit my text and will let you know.
                                                    The pictures you have posted here seem to be for a European model since the connectors are SCART type . RGB out maybe I don't know.
                                                    The Japanese model has D2 out which is a Digital TV standard in Japan....

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Lexman
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Jun 2000
                                                      • 1777

                                                      #27
                                                      Here is what Jariten was nice enough to write up. Great job Jariten! Unfortunately Jariten doesn't have much time to come to the forum right now, but he did do this as I requested even going to the shop to see the piece for us. What a guy! Thanks Jariten!

                                                      I swear, I had nothing to do with slight jab at Sony. Jariten apparently doesn't really hold them in very high regard. To bad. My own distastes in this area stem solely from personal experience within their lines. It's not a hate thing at all!
                                                      I think this piece looks promising. Of course, how much they dilute it before it gets to us, could be another story.

                                                      Lex

                                                      Jariten's hands on review!

                                                      Front panel :

                                                      CD/DVD tray hides behind the triangular shaped door on the front.
                                                      This tray moves up and down to load and unload the disc.(this is what the problem was with the Demo unit in the store!!..it was stuck and the disc wouldn’t come out…)

                                                      There is a strip of acrylic glass on the front where the buttons are located, the display is in the center and if it’s DTS,DD,SACD,CDV some information will be lit on the display..
                                                      When a Disc is loaded a purple light is on above the DVD symbol.
                                                      Big power switch on the upper left (quite ugly imho)

                                                      On the rear side (Japan model) we can find the following :

                                                      2 sets of Audio output (L/R)
                                                      2 sets of Composite Video out
                                                      2 sets of S-video out
                                                      1 set of Component video out
                                                      1 set Control S In (something to do with remote control link or something)
                                                      1 set optical out
                                                      1 set Coax out
                                                      1 scan select switch (interlaced/progressive/selectable) How can one use a mechanical switch to select the type of video output??????? I have no idea why there is a position called selectable
                                                      1 set D1/D2 Digital TV (Japan only)
                                                      On the picture that was on the forum or wherever it was we could see 2 big connectors SCART type.This model seems to be a European because that type of connector is widely used over there.

                                                      AC input 100V 50/60Hz (Japan model)

                                                      CD-R’s cannot be used in this unit

                                                      Specs : DVD (96kHz PCM) 2-44kHz (44kHz -2dB +/- 1dB)
                                                      CD 2-20kHz (+/- 0.5dB)
                                                      SACD 2-100kHz (2-50kHz, 50kHz -3dB +/- 1dB)
                                                      S/N DVD 115dB (EIAJ)
                                                      SACD 103dB
                                                      CD 99dB

                                                      Weight 12.6 kg (about 26lbs)

                                                      525 interlaced
                                                      Video section 54Mhz 10 bit DAC
                                                      525 progressive
                                                      Video section Luminance (Y) 54Mhz 12 bit DAC
                                                      Cr,Cb 54Mhz 11 bit DAC
                                                      The conversion from I to P uses also 16Meg of SG-RAM


                                                      Audio Section

                                                      SACD/CD/VCD uses the VC24plus chip used in the SCD-1 player @45Mhz (44.1kHz x 1024) and the DSD chip (DirectStreamDigital)

                                                      DVD @49Mhz (48kHz x 1024)

                                                      For 96kHz 24 bit uses a current pulse D/A converter

                                                      Power supply section : 2 transformers are used ,R core type 1 for the digital section and one for everything that is analog.

                                                      On the left there is the Power supply section,in the lower center the CD/DVD/SACD drive,
                                                      Upper center is the board with the Audio section and the Digital output.
                                                      On the right we find the MPEG decoder and Video section.

                                                      My impressions.
                                                      It’s a pitty that the unit in the store was defective ..(it’s a Sony after all…)
                                                      For that price tag I would have liked to see better capacitors used, especially in the audio and PS section. The remote is quite big…and the layout is a bit strange….
                                                      The front panel with that long strip of plastic/acrylic is so so…

                                                      End of Review, Courtesy of HTGuide's Japan contact. Contents do not necessarily reflect the opinions of HTGuide. Presented in unedited format so readers can know that we didn't try to change anything.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Jariten
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jun 2000
                                                        • 271

                                                        #28
                                                        Sony has done some good things...
                                                        and some bad things...

                                                        Example...
                                                        Their High-End SCD-1,Amps and pre-amps...
                                                        you could find them as second hand units about 1 month after they appeared on the market...you could save 75% off the list price...

                                                        again..Sony can do some good stuff...
                                                        but they can also make gadgets....and will sell very few too...

                                                        Lexman : yeah ...I killed it a bit because the demo unit didn't work.

                                                        When I visited Nihon Columbia (Denon) I was able to play with the Denon DVD-5000 ..which I then bought...it works flawlessly...some people reported that the pick up laser Diode died after viewing a few movies....
                                                        Possible because of the units construction.The laser pickup diode works @ 70C ..so if you have it stacked under I don't know whatother equipment...it could die...I've had my player for 1 1/2 year now....still works great.

                                                        ^_^;;;

                                                        I'll try to post more often soon!!!

                                                        Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

                                                        Comment

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