What's in the forecast?

[Clive]

So guys Christmas is just over two months away. What components/ upgrades or additions are you gonna make by then.

For me, I am still working on changes in my HT. Will purchase some amplifiers, cables and a different projection Television.

YOU?




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[Chip]

I'm moving from a receiver based HT to seperates. I started out almost four years ago with a Technic's receiver, moved to a B&K 307, then to a Denon 5803 and next week, full blown seperates baby! Ref50 pre pro, Ref200.5 amp. By Christmas i also plan on adding either a Ref200.2 two channel amp to my main's or two Ref200.1 monoblocks. B&K's new amplifer line is layed out nicely as follows: 200.1, 200.2, 200.3, 200.5 & 200.7




Chip Engle


"Concrete ain't a spectator sport"


<a href="http://www.htguide.com/bilder/index.cfm?fuseaction=arkivbilder&userid=0&selected userid=336" target="_blank">My HT

[David Meek]

Nothing major for me on the horizon. With the addition of a Panasonic RP-91 progressive-scan DVD unit, the HT is almost where I want it equipment-wise. Finishing the makeover of the room itself is my priority right now. Maybe a BFD to help with a couple of pesky room modes but that's a pretty minor addition. Next year though, I'd like to upgrade the turntable.

But, there's LOTS of DVD's out there. . . :B




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[Andrew Pratt]

Mine will likely be still finishing my new DIY speaker projects

[Kevin P]

My HT is currently stable, as in there's nothing left to upgrade until I get into a bigger house in the future, other than interconnects and stuff like that.

I've toyed with adding a tubed 2-channel preamp and amps with a speaker switch box for the mains, but with my finances they way they are right now I probably won't be doing this anytime soon... :roll:




Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
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[Brandon B]

Andrew -

How long have you got in your DIY stuff?

I've had my drivers for a year now (for seven 2-ways, 3 front woofers, and a dual driver 6 PR sub). To date, I've managed:

Temp boxes for 2 of the woofers
Temp box for 1/2 the sub setup
40% done on the rear surround pair

Pretty pathetic. Spending time with my 4 year old has taken precedence, along with a seemingly endless "social" calendar.

I'd kill for 3 uninterrupted weeks to work on this stuff. Except I want my family around or I miss them.

Evidently I was wise to buy a pair of Magneplanar MMGs last year to use until my speakers were built.

I keep setting deadlines, all of which I've missed (TPM release, LOTR initial release, LOTR second release, now Xmas).

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

I'm plunking cash away for an upgrade to my projector. So many good things happening out there, and prices are really dropping, so it's gonna be a tough decision, but I am still happy with my present set-up so there is no rush. Heck knows what'll be on the mareket or where prices will be this time next year.




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[Andrew Pratt]

Brandon so far I managed to get the dual tempest subs built and are 95% finished (cosmetics is all that's left to finish) The four M8a's I'm building though only have the box's build and the tweeter holes cut out. I have a lot more work on those to do but hopefully now that some other projects are complete I'll be able to get back to them.

[efarstad]

My next upgrade will be front projection. I'll still have my HDTV, but wantt projection so I can get a larger picture!

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Brandon B]

Big is gooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

I now have a 120" screen.

"Room? What room? I'm in a movie right now."

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Ahhh, love these FP guys...




My Homepage!

[John Holmes]

I'm working on a getting a new TV. Just can't seem to pull the trigger. Great part is, I'm in no rush.




"I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's

[Sonnie Parker]

Nothing else in my stocking for now!

Just got my new PVR-508 with DD and lovin' it. It makes watching TV a whole new experience. Records in DD as well.

Would like that new DTV but gonna wait.






SONNIE

Cedar Creek Cinema

DVD Collection

BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

[LarryB]

I am going to get a FPTV, as I'm fed up with the RPTV screwing up my soundstage. The current contenders are the InFocus Screenplay, the Plus 3200, and the soon-to-be-released SONY VPL HS10.

Suggestions/comments would be most welcomed.

Larry

Edited to correct stupid error.

[Lex]

Larry, I think you meant RPTV is screwing things up, yeah?

Guys, good upgrades there, and sounds like a few cables will be required. I recommend Rat Shack. :LOL:

Myself? What upgrades for the future, you guys know I never put one off for tomorrow that I could do today, lol. JK. By year end, not much happening that hasn't already happened.

Just added another Lovan floor stand for my new Tube Integrated amp, and of course, I did just add the 2nd 300 disc DVD player. I do have 4 Tempests in the box for a project someday, just don't know when that day will be.

Would love to go front projection, but that will have to be in my next house, if there is a next one. Or an addition potentially.

Lex

[George Bellefontaine]

Larry, those fps all sound pretty good. But the jury's still out on the Sony HS10 because there is scant information and conflicting reports. Some are saying it has a crummy internal scaler. Well a progressive scan dvd would take care of dvd movie watching, but what if you want to scale a hdtv signal to 720p ? That would mean an outboard scaler, or if this new baby is pc friendly ( and we hear it is) then you could hook it up to a pc. But I don't want pcs in my theater, so this may not be the pj for me, even though it has higher resolution than my VPL 400.




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[brucek]

I would like to add a 300 or 400 multi CD player to my system for non critical listening. It seems like a great way to organize my CD's.

I'd also like a real cheapy (I see them at Wall Mart for $117) DVD player that plays JPEG images. Then I can store all my digital pictures on CD and watch them on TV. Kinda neat.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest here at HTG in plasma displays. I consider them a bit of a high end device, given their cost, but lately you see them being flogged by the Brick and Future shop etc. The prices have certainly come down with a corresponding increase in screen size - up to 60".

I've seen a 41" at my local audio/video store and was quite impressed by the brightness, perfect convergence and focus. The off axis is amazing. The allure of the thin panel, of course, is obvious.

I have tossed around, in the last year, getting a digital projector to replace my 50" RPTV, but always back off. They just don't seem like the kind of device I would flop down in my chair and watch the news on every morning.
A projector, whether CRT or digital, seems more like an event to me than an every day "TV" watchin' device. But, these plasma displays are starting to get to a screen size that's beginning to get interesting.

A 60" thin panel, that isn't as big as a volkswagon like my RPTV, and doesn't require a mess of cabling running up in my ceiling like a projector requires, and I don't have to dim the lights and close all the curtains, that has lifelong convergence and focussing, with no bulbs to replace, sounds pretty good.
I'm sure the price will come down further.

What do you guys (especially George) think about plasmas, and who is going to get me one for Christmas.........

brucek

[LarryB]

Lex:

Larry, I think you meant RPTV is screwing things up, yeah?

Good catch. I've edited my post to correct this. Thanks.

Larry

[LarryB]

George:

...but what if you want to scale a hdtv signal to 720p ? That would mean an outboard scaler...

I take it then that if I received an HD signal (from satellite or cable) and didn't use an external scalar, it wouldn't be 720P? What would it be?

Thanks.

Larry-trying-to-learn-B

P.S. What do I do to avoid having to re-type my name and pasword each I time I post???

[Robbie]

Well, didn't think I'd upgrade quite this quick but the price of progressive scan DVD players is just to good to pass up. Soooo by the end of year I will change players. Just deciding which one... Sounds like another post to me.

Robbie

[Clive]

George:

P.S. What do I do to avoid having to re-type my name and pasword each I time I post???

Larry I believe you have to enable cookies on your computer




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[Lex]

Yes, and he also needs to check the box to save Username and password on "this computer" in his profile...

Lex

[David Meek]

Bruce,

Do you think plasmas have overcome the not-so-black blacks enough to make them a serious HT contender? I'll grant that they've made some major strides recently in PQ, but not having seen one anywhere other than Tweeter's or Home Entertainment (with the corresponding high contrast, hi color settings) I haven't seen one yet that will produce an acceptable black.

Hope that last sentence made sense. I've been at work doin' SQL/PLSQL for the last 4 hours. . . .




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[brucek]

David,

I understand the Panasonic and Fujitsu units with their high contrast levels are producing quite convincing blacks - but I haven't seen either of these units.

I guess my point is that I feel there are a lot of negatives to overcome with digital projectors (including blacks, screen door, bulbs, fan noise, cabling, screens, rainbows, filters etc, etc. It's making the plasma displays look more appealing since they've come down in price and up in size, with better contrast and light output...

I was just wondering if anyone else felt this way?

brucek

[George Bellefontaine]

Larry, scaling depends on the projector. Certain high end lcd and dlp projectors will do internal scaling to the 720p rate and do it well. Some lower end pj ( the new Piano for example ) will scale a 1080i HD signal down to 480p. Most pjs , high and low end, will do a fair job of deinterlacing the 480i to 480p. But what I am hearing about the Sony HS 10 is that it either doesn't have a good scaler, or doesn't have one at all, which I find strange since this is a 1280 x 720 resolution projector. But I hear it's pc friendly and there are many out there who like to use the pc as a scaler for their pjs.

Bruce-
I haven't seen a plasma as yet so it's hard to comment. But Tex is correct to a degree, they aparrently did have poor black levels, but I have read that they are getting better in that department. But they are still awfully expensive, and very, very delicate and have to be handled carefully.

As for digital projectors, no I would not recommend them for normal tv viewing. Replacement lamps are expensive, around $400 US on average, and only last 1000 to 2000 hours, though Panansonic is claiming 5 or 6000 hours with their new 200 and 300 series lcd projectors. Except for some sporting events or concerts on tv, I use my FP mostly for movie viewing.

But the issues you mention regarding digital projectors, such as screendoor and rainbows, have really been blown out of proportion in my opinion. I have been viewing an 8 foot wide picture on my lcd projectors for 4 years, sitting about 13 feet from the screen, and I don't see screendoor unless I move to within 4 feet of the screen. You really have to see these pjs for yourself, and take what you read at some of these other HT sites with a grain of salt.




My Homepage!

[JonMarsh]

Re LCD and DLP projectors "scalers" and de-interlacers


In my experience helping a couple of guys out here setup 10HT's, even the Pixelworks scaler chip used in the 1XHT series projectors is not really competitive with a good video card scaler.

We've compared using a progressive 480P widescreen signal at 848X480P from the PC into the 10HT, versus a 1280X720P signal from the PC also as a DVD player. Upscaling the 480P signal, which is analagous to what it must do with a progressive DVD player output, the 10HT has a more pixelated, clumpy kind of look if you're close to the screen- like the scaling filtering algorithm is relatively crude. OTOH, the 1280X720P output, while still having to be scaled from that to the 1366X768 native resolution, looks sharper and clearer. Not perfect, but definitely better. You can see this result both on the "desktop" and with video images on DVD. The 10HT actually looks best to my eyes fed a 1920X1080i signal, and downcoverting that. That may be how the Pixelworks chip is optimized.

The "word on the street" is that the HS10 is "HTPC Friendly", so that it can be used at native resolution from an HTPC (which is the holy grail of us PC buffs), and gives up a more sophisticated scaling/de-interlacing solution, in order to provide a wide XGA projector at a "bargain basement" price. It still does have some upscaling from 480P/i, but don't expect the great Y/C filter of the 10HT and it's sucessors, and don't expect the same image quality as what a Radeon board with a good DXVA based software player in hardware decode mode can deliver (I know that sounds confusing, but it just means that a software player can take advantage of the hardware features beyond YUV decode built into the Radeon video hardware, instead of having to use a full software decode (more cpu intensive) solution.

For the Cineplayer and PowerDVD 4 programs, DXVA hardware decode produces the cleanest, sharpest image, but it requires video drivers (think recent, within last year) supporing DXVA.

An even more compelling solution for those with deeper pockets would probably be combining an HTPC with the Immersive Tek Holo3D board and an outboard DVD player; the board is $895, using high quality video A/D, and a Faroudja de-interlacing solution. This is then fed to the video card on the PC, which provides scaling to whatever the main video resolution is set for. Again, Radeon's with 10Bit DAC's are recommended. The possible choke point here is the DVD player input quality, as it's decoding and DAC quality become quite important. But then, the ultimate UI is very simple, and easy for non PC comfortable types to master.

I've been using PC's nearly exclusively at home for DVD for some time, as well as at my girlfriends. My daughter was given the Toshiba SD9000 (original retail $1K), and she's happy with that on the Toshiba RPTV I handed down to her. But though she enjoys the convenience and big screen, she admits the picture "looks more like the movies" on the PC based players.

It doesn't require a high power PC (one of my playback platforms is just an Athlon 600), but it requires a little care in the fine turning through drivers, choice of DVD-ROM drives (I've tried Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, Creative Labs, and Acer, and had the most consisten results with Pioneer), and making sure the software player and video driver technology match up. Also, sometimes video card companies introduce drivers which "break" things, so a littel research and judicious testing is called for. Generally, once you've got something working to your satisfaction, DON'T MESS AROUND WITH IT! This concept has worked quite well, for example, with the HTPC setup for ThomasW's Sony 400Q- which was custom designed around it's requirements.

I've got some more pics and info of the HS-10, will post them tonight.

Best regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Clive]

That's some really great info Jon, I hope that when I'm on the PJ wagon that you won't get tired of my questions.
However, I saw somewhere that Faroudja has a new CRT PJ retailing for $64,500.00 US. I hope you will have a chance to review it for your Christmas gift. :yeah:

DVDs always a must buy, but I'm also thinking about doing up my truck with LCD flip-down.




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[JonMarsh]

Oh yeah, the Faroudja projector is probably pretty nice, but I'm a diehard Sony guy (much to Lex's disgust!), so I'm saving up my pennies for stacked G90's driven with an Extron distribution amplifier off an HTPC with a Matrox Parahelion and the Holo3D board! :LOL:

By the time I have enough pennies saved up, I'll either be in the nursing home, or the price of those items on the used market will either be so low or so high (as collectables) that it will all be a moot point..... :cry:

Hmmm, this was supposed to be about upgrades by the Holidays, right?

Well, if I'm lucky, I'll get my Ayre V-5 out to the home office in December, and Charlie's promised he'll get the new upgrade done muy pronto.

If I'm really good, (by Santa's standards), I'll have at least bought a new saw and a pair of RD50's, and will be building the new line array's over the holidays....

And maybe I'll have finished the Aragon Xmod PCB layout and have a test board to build.

I already have the new DAC analog bare PCB's made, and need to load and test them. And I've got my first upsampler board in the test phase, so maybe I'll be able to integrate and be running the brassboard of the new DAC design by Xmas (CS8420 upsampler with CS4397 24/192 converters, and transformer isolated balanced differential zero feedback output board). It could be a very "audio Xmas" - unfortunately, no video treats are likely this year!

-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[George Bellefontaine]

Jon, you are an absolute wealth of knowledge, man. We are fortunate to have you as a fellow member.

I look forward to your take on the HS 10 when you get the opportunity to see it. As for Pcs, well not in my set-up, but I have a great deal of respect for those who do.




My Homepage!

[JonMarsh]

George, I'm blushing! ops:


Seriously, I think there are going to be a lot of people curious about the HS-10 and looking at it closely.

One of the curious things about it is the use of a multi-function input connector, to handle RGB/VGA.



Apparently, there will be a special cable/adapter for this, though just what isn't clear yet. A breakout box approach like the HS1 might work pretty well, but it's not clear that's in the works.




The remote is pretty streamlined compared with some of Sony's previous offereings; also, the HS10 apparently offers remote control of focus and zoom, which is surprising, as this is lacking on the VPL-W10HT and it's "big" brothers.







This view shows the front and the controls on the side-








The lens array looks a bit cheap compared with the 10HT, BUT,





A color correcting (red enhancement) filter is included in the optical path, which increases the contrast ratio possible for digital projectors using typical UHP bulbs, which have a bit of a deficiency in the red portion of the spectrum output- this allows turning up the green and blue gain, and reducing the brightness (and green/blueness) of the dark grays/blacks.



Best regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Andrew Pratt]

and Charlie's promised he'll get the new upgrade done muy pronto.

what are you getting done to the pronto?

[Clive]

Jon
I could use a little help on my last post in "Spaced Out" pleeease!

Thanx




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[JonMarsh]

what are you getting done to the pronto?

No, no, no, he'll be upgrading my V-5 amplifier "muy pronto", as in "very quickly" en espanol! Sorry for any confusion.... I don't even have a pronto..... hardly any of my gear works with a remote.

-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[David Meek]

Hey Jon,

Does making your own presents at Christmas count?




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[LarryB]

Thanks to all of you who so patiently answered my newbie questions. On the chance that you could handle one more: What does a an HTPC take the place of? Or more explicitly, if one goes this route, what does one need/not need?

Thanks again.

Larry

[JonMarsh]

Hi David!

Well, you know, hand crafted gifts used to be an old Christmas tradition at one time! So making your own isn't too far off, is it?

Larry,

There's a lot of things you can do with an HTPC; it partly depends on what you want to do in your HT!

In its most basic form, it can replace a set top DVD player. This is a plus, generally, only if you have a higher resolution display, such as a graphics grade projector (CRT or digital). Then, it's actually replacing the DVD player and an outboard scaler (think Faroudja, Exetron, Crystal Image, etc). If you use a board like the Holo3D from Immersive tek, then you're actually just using the PC as a de-interlacer and scaler- but you can do it for most any video input (composite, S-Video, and component)- that includes LD players, DSS, set top DVD players, video game boxes, etc.

If you have a more conventional TV, such as an HD ready RPTV, I'm not sure I'd go the HTPC route, because it's tricky to get an HTPC to work at true 1080i, and the equivlanet progressive resoultion (540P) isn't enough of an advantage for HTPC scaling to be worthwhile compared with a straight 480P signal from a good DVD player. Then, your extra efforts might be better spent tweaking and optimizing the display (convergence, color calibration, etc).

Keep in mind I became a hard core HTPC buff back when DVD was a pretty new phenomena, and there were no such things as progressive scan DVD players... (how many of you had DVD players then, or can remember back to those halcyon days?
And I was using it to drive presentation monitors at 1280X720 and 1280X1024- the scaling and de-interlacing advantages were pretty clear cut over DVD through an S-Video input into a conventional TV! And the only alternative was a megabuck Fararoudja scaler selling for thousands of dollars.

Another HTPC configuration I built was custom specific to the requirements of the Sony 400Q projector, which would work only with a conventional 480i signal or an HDTV signal on RGsB (sync on green). I built a PC with an Exetron converter from RGBHV to RGsB which would drive it with either 540P or 480P with custom video timings to emulate standard 1080i sweep frequencies- to the best of my knowledge, I had the first working HTPC on a 400Q in the US. That system resides at ThomasW's for some years, now.

In my opinion, where an HTPC really shines is for high resolution displays, at least XGA capable or beyond.

Also, users are doing other things, such as video recording of HD (there are several HDTV cards for PC's, with recording and playback features on the hard disk). Some want to use them as music servers- I'm not convinced the DAC SPDIF output quality is up to that, but who knows? It's more a convenience thing than a quality thing.

Then, there's games. A lot of games are pretty impressive with the video through a big screen and the sound through a good hi fi surround system. Baldurs Gate II through my X1 klones was pretty righteous... it has a much better than average music track, and very good sound effects.


-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[LarryB]

Jon:

Thanks so much for your reply. I have no intention of using an HDPC (sorry if I gave that impression), but I did want to understand it better, as it gets a lot of "press" these days (at least, in HT forums).

My dealer has offerd to sell his demo InFocus Screenplay (which has <10 hours), with a screen, for $4,000. As far as I can tell this is a pretty good deal. While I realize that this projector is far from perfect, I think it will be more than adequate for my needs. I would like to check out the new SONY when it hits the streets but if the truth be told, I am not and never have been a big fan of SONY. Accordingly, I'll probabaly go with the InFocus.

Thanks again.

Larry

P.S. Is there a big (obviously, a relative term) difference between 480P (DVD, right?) and 780P (HD TV, right?)?

[Chip]

Larry,

There can be a huge difference betweem 480P and 1080i. If it's video, it's huge! Sometimes when it's film based, not so much. There is a difference. I guess watching film based hd is like watching Superbit dvd's alot of the time. (good analogy guy's ?)




Chip Engle


"Concrete ain't a spectator sport"


<a href="http://www.htguide.com/bilder/index.cfm?fuseaction=arkivbilder&userid=0&selected userid=336" target="_blank">My HT

[George Bellefontaine]

Jon, slow getting back to you, but your post with pictures of the HS 10 shows the pj has power focus and zoom, which is a great feature for permanent installs, and a big value for such a low priced pj. I also read that you can choose a long or short throw lens, but doesn't indicate if there is a difference in the price between the two. My 400 ( as you already know) is long throw and is installed high on the back wall of my room. I have a low ceiling so ceiling mount doesn't work for me. A lot of pjs that have interested me are mostly short throw, so these are off my list. Now this new Sony is starting to look interesting.




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