I finally pulled the trigger on HD-DVD

[Dean McManis]

I have been holding out ever since the introduction of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on buying a player. Mostly because of the early-adopter $700-$1000 player prices, plus the higher DVD media prices, plus the lack of HD movie selection, plus I already have a LOT of movies on regular DVD, and have a HD Tivo box for new HD movies, and last but not least I had been waiting for the dual media format war to get sorted out.

Well in the last year or so the format war appears no closer to resolution, but the media prices have dropped and movie selection has improved. I had thought that I would be buying an X-Box or PS3 to get my HD-DVD/BluRay player, and a game thrown in for fun. And even though Black Friday sales have dropped the PS3/X-Box Elite prices to under $400, it's still a bit more than I wanted to pay just now.

But I saw a deal on Amazon where they are selling the Toshiba HD-A3 for $187 with free shipping, and 10 free HD-DVDs, so I could not wait any longer and I ordered it. Two free DVDs (300 and Bourne Identity ), then Amazon offers your choice of 3 HD-DVDs out of 12 to choose from (decent titles), and then Toshiba has a mail-in deal for 5 more free DVDs (out of maybe 20 titles).

I've been happy with my current Panasonic RP91 DVD player, and I'll have to see how well the new Toshiba's upconversion works compared to the RP91's progressive DVD output for playback of normal DVDs. 8)

I'm still not going to rush out and replace all of my favorite movies that I have on DVD with their new HD-DVD counterparts, but most likely I will be buying any new movies in HD format from now on. :T

[George Bellefontaine]

I was like you, Dean. But so far, there are more Bluray titles than HD DVD titles in my area, even though the Players are getting cheaper ( though not cheap enough in Canada as yet). So I would likely have to buy into both formats, or as I have pretty much decided to do, wait for the new Samsung Dual Player due out early next year. One thing that almost made me pull the trigger on a HD DVD player here, was the thought that even if Bluray won in the end, I would still have a darn good upconverting player to play all my standard dvds on. Who knows, Dean, if that Samsung player is more expensive than two different format stand alone players, I may have to rethink things. Anyway, I'm sure you will enjoy your Tosh and those great looking HD DVD movies. I saw them demoed and they made my mouth water.

[Ovation]

I share your position, George, but I must say I'm mighty tempted to pull the trigger for HD DVD. Around here, title availability is about 50-50 (at my local video rental store as well) and I have parents who live in the US where I could send an Amazon order. Will have to see how many extra pennies I have in my piggy bank. But if don't give into impulse, I will likely follow your plan.

[John Holmes]

Congrats Dean! I really enjoy using my XA1 HD player. I'm sure the A3 will find a home in your system. Good deal too!

[Dean McManis]

George, believe me I understand your reluctance to jump in. It took all of this time and a great bargain to finally push me over the buying edge.
The only other slight factor was that I do believe that PC HD-DVD ROM drives will drop in price quite a bit over the next couple years and having one format of high def DVD between my PC and home theater will protentially be a future advantage perhaps. :T

I of course understand that there will also be RW BluRay PC drives that will also drop in price. But I think that Sony has shown in the past that they like to keep their technologies controlled, so I do not think that the BluRay will make it into PCs at nearly the same rate as HD-DVD.

Now I'm going to look out for some Black Friday sales on HD-DVDs, in anticipation of the new HD-DVD player.

[PewterTA]

You can get the LG dual format player for your PC for just around $236 (USD).

I held out as long as I could and eventually bought the Xbox360 HD player and then got a PS3 for Blu-Ray. I now have more Blu-Ray discs than HD, but it's only by 2 discs...so each format has it's ups and downs... Though basically the only down is that they aren't ONE format. lol

[John Holmes]

I know it was what I considered to be a good price, that pushed my hand. I wanted a flagship 1st gen b/c, companies tend to overbuild them and use the best (at the time) parts to make a statement. I have yet to regret this choice. And the best parts are, Toshiba is still providing firmware updates for it (just got version 2.4 via internet yesterday), and it has been trouble free. It delivers a darn good picture (with the right software) and very good sound. It also does a solid job of upscaling standard DVD. I even enjoy the 2ch dacs with CD playback.

I have no clue how good the A3's are in these areas. However, I cannot imagine the picture or 5.1 audio (regardless of format) to be much different.

I wasn't going to purchase a player until "the war" was over. However, when my then current player started acting up and prices on the 1st gens fell below $400, I said what the heck. I figure, if HD-DVD fails, I will have enjoyed it regardless and still have a great DVD/CD player anyway.

[Dean McManis]

Yeah, I'm still going to be enjoying my regular DVD collection for MANY years to come, regardless of which HD format prevails, and likewise I'll enjoy watching my HD-DVD movies even if Blu-Ray becomes the standard over time, which now is still up in the air.
But for $187, there is little investment into it. And like the regular DVDs, I will still be able to watch and enjoy the HD-DVD movies as well.

Ironically, my mom (not an early adopter) who had interited my Olevia 37" LCD HD display, decided (after I told her about this deal) that she wanted me to order a Toshiba HD-DVD player/discs for her as well, which I did tonight.

I also adapted my Netflix account (after 8 years now) to be setup for HD-DVD movies. Interestingly, they have a setting that automatically chooses the HD version of any movies in your queue that are available in HD-DVD (or BluRay). So it automatically swapped out 3 movies that were in my rental queue for their HD-DVD versions, and I added an additional 12 HD-DVD movies from their selection to my queue. 8)

[Chris D]

Congrats, Dean! I just went "dual-format" by buying an A-35 to do HBR streaming. Enjoying it so far, and watched some kick-butt stuff.

Right now, the showcase film for HD-DVD is Transformers, which I recommend. On BD, it's Ratatouille, which is mind-blowing quality.

[draganm]

Congrats, Dean! I just went "dual-format" by buying an A-35 to do HBR streaming. Enjoying it so far, and watched some kick-butt stuff.
Right now, the showcase film for HD-DVD is Transformers, which I recommend. On BD, it's Ratatouille, which is mind-blowing quality.

well it might amuse you guys to know that the one CRt on this forum has also gone HD-DVD. My wife threw a big bash my 40th BD and the local (unofficial) HT club all chipped in together and got me an HD-A2. I'm now running HDMI 1.3 all the way to my Marquee projector and I also still have my HTPC hooked up with RGB. I was hopingto have some screen shots up this weekend of HD-1080i vs upscaled 960P. Should be interesting.
Transformers kind of sucked though, if I was still 16 it might have held my imagination a little better. I found myself spending most of the movie studying the HD picture. opcorn:

[Chris D]

Yeah, I thought it was okay as a movie. The PQ and CGI was pretty good in some spots, though!

Congrats, too!

[Ovation]

Just joined the HD DVD club as well. My wife is in the US on a business trip and she picked up an HD A2C for me (she had to call me to make sure it wasn't some scam as it wasn't one of the model numbers I'd given her on my list). Turns out the "C" either stands for Costco (where she bought it) or for free "cable" (it has a free 6' HDMI cable). It'll be a couple of days (or weeks if she's a stickler and makes me wait for Xmas) before I get to try it out, but I look forward to it.

[Gremal]

Congrats, but I do have to wonder...if we indeed are quality-conscious consumers and we see one format that offers 40% greater capacity than the other...and we know capacity is critical in audio/video technology...why would any of us vote for the lower-capacity HD format with our hard-earned $$?

This reminds me of the comcast deals that look so attractive for the first couple months until the introductory pricing wears out and you're left with a worse product at a higher cost. Come'on HT-philes. Use your heads. Vote for the higher-capacity format. We're supposed to know better than the average consumer.

[Ovation]

I am format neutral in hi-res audio (DVD-A has more capacity that SACD, but it is rarely implemented--in fact, I have about 15 DVD-As from NAXOS but I bought "Swan Lake" on SACD because it was the complete recording (2 discs) rather than the "highlights" on the DVD-A (even though the DVD-A could have easily contained the entire recording on one disc)). I plan to be format neutral in hi-def as well.

In the first place, if only one format had emerged, players would still be around 1200$ and the initially less well implemented release of Blu-Ray (with less than stellar releases and player) would have had far less pressure to improve.

Secondly, I want content in HD. Right now, neither one gives a better picture and I doubt that will change anytime soon. And greater capacity has as much to do with efficiency of codecs as it does with storage space. So I'm not concerned.

Lastly, these formats will supplement, but probably not supplant, SD DVD (for a variety of reasons--I don't have time to elaborate now but I can come back to this later if anyone wants) and I see the two formats, much like the gaming formats, as good for those of us who want something better than SD DVD. I actually doubt very much that either format will disappear anytime soon.

[littlesaint]

...and we know capacity is critical in audio/video technology...

We do?

Is this why CDs failed when DVD-A came out?

What exactly does that 40% extra capacity give you? You might want to let Sony know because they sure aren't using any of it.

Also, the DVD forum has, or in the process of, approving the 3 layer standard for HD-DVD which takes capacity up to 51Gb and looks to be backwards compatible with current generation players.

Moot point.

[draganm]

why would any of us vote for the lower-capacity HD format with our hard-earned $$?

voting? LOL i didn't know this was an election to decide the future of HD? the player that was gifted to me cost a whopping $98. brand new from Wal-fart and i get 5 free movies with it. So if people are voting, then I gues it's with their wallets. Which in the good ole USA 2007 are pretty empty.

[David Meek]

Dean, you did it. :

I was on the fence, on DVD-buying hiatus, waiting on one or the other to emerge as an undisputable forerunner (and quite happy to be so), hoping it would be Blu-Ray FWIW. That is, until I saw this thread. Now, I have the HD-D3 on order along with those two HD-DVDs. Unfortunately I was a day or so behind you and the offer had mutated into one with an HDMI cable bundled in for a bit more money. I'll be ordering a second HDMI from Doug to match the one I've got from my HD satellite tuner, so the one with the player is now superfluous - anyone need an HDMI cable?

Anyway, thanks for the heads-up on the sale. As soon as it arrives, I'm ordering my 5 HD-DVD's from Toshiba.

Now, the big question: Do I pop for a Blu-Ray unit, too? Hmmm. . . . . .

[Gremal]

What exactly does that 40% extra capacity give you?

It gives you exactly 50 GB or 20 Gigs more than HD DVD to accommodate higher bitrate codecs, quality 5.1 and 7.1 audio, extra/supplementary material and other features. Note that even 50 gigs cannot accommodate high bitrate AV codecs with PCM 7.1 audio. We are already running into limitations.

You might want to let Sony know because they sure aren't using any of it.

On their BD-50 releases, they are. The higher bitrates prove it.

Also, the DVD forum has, or in the process of, approving the 3 layer standard for HD-DVD which takes capacity up to 51Gb and looks to be backwards compatible with current generation players.

The blu-ray forum is also looking to ramp up capacity and has technologies for holding hundreds of Gigs. But it's best to just discuss the formats as implemented. There is no denying that quality HD audio and video uses vast quantities of storage and thus there is no denying that it is preferable to have 50 GB than 30 GB in an HD format. It's fairly hair raising that educated people would even try to argue against this logic.

[Dean McManis]

I'm not worried about capacity, I'm worried about HD content availability.
And not even too worried about that either.

As with ink-jet printers, the profit is in selling more ink, or in this case getting me to re-purchase all of my DVD movies in the cool new HD format.
Which is NOT likely to happen in the short term, if ever. :P

Instead, I've upped my Netflix queue from 4 to 5 titles a month for an extra $3, and stacked my favorite 20+ HD-DVD titles onto that list for my future HD movie viewing pleasure.

The technology eventually always moves on without end, but content is the key for me. :T

[Dean McManis]

I got my Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player yesterday and the picture quality is amazing!
I've gone through snippets of 5 of the 8 HD-DVD movies that I have so far and the picture quality is even visibly a bit better than the HD picture quality from HD-DSS.
I've been watching the discs on both my 720p front projector, and on my 1080p LCD display and the HD-DVDs look uniformly stunning.

So far, the only real downside that I've seen so far is that the HD-A3 takes a LONG time to start up and respond. But the upconverted picture quality is VERY good with regular DVDs.

[Charles]

Congrats, Dean! I just went "dual-format" by buying an A-35 to do HBR streaming. Enjoying it so far, and watched some kick-butt stuff.

Right now, the showcase film for HD-DVD is Transformers, which I recommend. On BD, it's Ratatouille, which is mind-blowing quality.

Chris, are you hearing a major difference in AQ doing HBR streaming vs typical optical/coax out?

[John Holmes]

Somehow, I knew you would be happy with the results! Congrats Dean & enjoy!

[draganm]

the upconverted picture quality is VERY good with regular DVDs.

i'm guessing you have ran the software updates already. Right out of the box, my A-2's upconverting of standard DVD was atrocious.

[Dean McManis]

Yeah, that was one of the first things that I did was to update the software.

[Azeke]

Congratulations Dean. I've gone back and forth on HD vs Blu-ray. I first bought the HD-DVD via the Xbox 360, I returned it because of two reasons, one it made too much noise for my taste (maybe if I had bought a separate HD-DVD device, things would have been different), secondly as already mentioned the HD-DVD titles are limited as compared to Blu-ray.

I then purchased a Sony Blu-ray player for $499.00, two weeks later, the PS3 goes on sale for $499.00 (including 5 free Blu-ray movies, and extra controller), I took back the Sony Blu-ray player and exchanged it for the PS3. I thought I get Blu-ray, networking, and my son can play his PS2 games. It seemed a better functional choice for me. Just thought I would share the story.

Once again congratulations Dean, I'm sure your experience will continue to be a happy one.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[Dean McManis]

Thanks Azeke. I've been waiting for a long while now (for me) mostly because the limited movie titles on either format, and the fact that there was no single HD standard after this long.

I really thought that I was going to get into pre-recorded HD discs by either buying a PS3 or a X-Box, but with this deal I could get started at half the price of a gaming system (albeit with out the fun of games), and I'm starting to go through my Netflix rental HD-DVDs, so there hasn't been any aftermath of "hidden" costs for me yet.

I know that I couldn't buy a HD console system without buying several games and peripherals too, which would bring the price up even higher.

[Chris D]

Charles, I'm actually still in the process of upgrading my system, so I haven't yet tried it out to give an evaluation of HBR. I'll let you know, though!

[impala454]

Who knows, Dean, if that Samsung player is more expensive than two different format stand alone players, I may have to rethink things.

I believe its new due date is Jan 15th and will ship for $799 from Amazon.

[Charles]

Charles, I'm actually still in the process of upgrading my system, so I haven't yet tried it out to give an evaluation of HBR. I'll let you know, though!

Great, I've been looking at buying a reciever like the Denon 2808/3808 to use as a pre pro only to get HDMI switching and latest codecs. Interested on what you find going from optical/coax to full lossless audio. Thanks

[Chris D]

That's pretty much exactly what I'm doing. You inspired me to get off my butt and do some installation today. Doing some major reorganizing of my house central equipment room. Man, swapping a whole bunch of rackmounted stuff ain't easy! Will make a new post when I get it done, though.

[Kevin D]

Man, swapping a whole bunch of rackmounted stuff ain't easy! Will make a new post when I get it done, though.

Get familar with it. Once you go rack, you don't go back.

Kevin D.

[RebelMan]

So far, the only real downside that I've seen so far is that the HD-A3 takes a LONG time to start up and respond. But the upconverted picture quality is VERY good with regular DVDs.

Dean congrats on the new player!

One of the reasons I opted for the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive instead of the A2/A3 was for the fast load times. Another reason was the glowing reviews that put it on par with Toshiba's flagship XA2 for SD and HD content. Finally, it only cost $150 to add plus it comes with six HD-DVD discs to get you going. :B

[RebelMan]

Now, the big question: Do I pop for a Blu-Ray unit, too? Hmmm. . . . . .

Get the PS3 if you do; it's worth it! :twisted:

[littlesaint]

Dean congrats on the new player!

One of the reasons I opted for the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive instead of the A2/A3 was for the fast load times. Another reason was the glowing reviews that put it on par with Toshiba's flagship XA2 for SD and HD content. Finally, it only cost $150 to add plus it comes with six HD-DVD discs to get you going. :B

I have both the Xbox 360 HD-DVD and the XA2, and the SD quality is not even close...IMO. The 360 scaler is good, but not that good. Also the Xbox 360 does not support HD codecs. It will decode them, but it downmixes to DD, even with the HDMI enabled Elite models. Maybe this will change down the road. Still a good deal at $150, but it is not on par with an XA2.

[RebelMan]

I have both the Xbox 360 HD-DVD and the XA2, and the SD quality is not even close...IMO. The 360 scaler is good, but not that good. Also the Xbox 360 does not support HD codecs. It will decode them, but it downmixes to DD, even with the HDMI enabled Elite models. Maybe this will change down the road. Still a good deal at $150, but it is not on par with an XA2.

On very close visual inspection the quality of SD content from the Xbox 360 HD-DVD will fall a little short of the XA2. At a normal viewing position and with a high quality display the minor differences are trivial (on par) and certainly not worth the extra $300. Unless the intent is to watch more DVD's than HD-DVD's, which to my thinking would be counter intuitive. You bought that XA2 to watch hidef movies, right?

As for HD audio, this subject doesn't merit much discussion at this time because the quality of the source and the sound mixing techniques are too varied and domineering not to mention the fundamentals of perceptual encoding at work. For instance, using U-571 as an example, the HD-DVD DD+ soundtrack is encoded about 10dB lower than the DTS encoded one and it is mixed much differently. Maybe Universal used the same source in the DVD DD and DTS soundtracks to make the DTS track in the HD-DVD cut? According to my tests they are nearly identical, except for about a 5dB loss on the DVD. This would suggest that they did.

It’s these wild variations in gain that fool most people into thinking one encode is better than another. The real differences come from the source and the mixing techniques, NOT THE CODEC! After level matching the DD+ and DTS tracks for the second scene of U-571, I found the dialog on both cuts to be about the same. Front-end panning and steering from the DD+ track seemed a little livelier. This was noticeable during the Jeep drive-by and horn beeps just moments before Lieutenant Tyler left his vehicle and entered the celebration room.

On the DD+ side the band playing in the background was prominently heard almost as if it was following Lieutenant Tyler as he traversed the room on his way to see the Captain. On the DTS side, the band sounds as if it's playing further off into the distance with hall like sound effects. I didn't find either track to be an entirely realistic portrayal but both were clearly audible only presented with a different slant on interpretation for the listener.

Ths XA2 has the advantage over the Xbox 360 as far as audio outputs and configurations go but it's not a complete solution either when it should be for a second generation player. For me the HD-DVD drive is a stop gap measure until something much better surfaces, which could be a better all-round player or an outcome to the format war. As for HD video content the HD-DVD drive is every bit as good as the XA2 and good enough to be on par with everything else with one exception. Its cooling fans are noisier.

[Nolan B]

On very close visual inspection the quality of SD content from the Xbox 360 HD-DVD will fall a little short of the XA2. At a normal viewing position and with a high quality display the minor differences are trivial (on par) and certainly not worth the extra $300. Unless the intent is to watch more DVD's than HD-DVD's, which to my thinking would be counter intuitive. You bought that XA2 to watch hidef movies, right?

As for HD audio, this subject doesn't merit much discussion at this time because the quality of the source and the sound mixing techniques are too varied and domineering not to mention the fundamentals of perceptual encoding at work. For instance, using U-571 as an example, the HD-DVD DD+ soundtrack is encoded about 10dB lower than the DTS encoded one and it is mixed much differently. Maybe Universal used the same source in the DVD DD and DTS soundtracks to make the DTS track in the HD-DVD cut? According to my tests they are nearly identical, except for about a 5dB loss on the DVD. This would suggest that they did.

It’s these wild variations in gain that fool most people into thinking one encode is better than another. The real differences come from the source and the mixing techniques, NOT THE CODEC! After level matching the DD+ and DTS tracks for the second scene of U-571, I found the dialog on both cuts to be about the same. Front-end panning and steering from the DD+ track seemed a little livelier. This was noticeable during the Jeep drive-by and horn beeps just moments before Lieutenant Tyler left his vehicle and entered the celebration room.

On the DD+ side the band playing in the background was prominently heard almost as if it was following Lieutenant Tyler as he traversed the room on his way to see the Captain. On the DTS side, the band sounds as if it's playing further off into the distance with hall like sound effects. I didn't find either track to be an entirely realistic portrayal but both were clearly audible only presented with a different slant on interpretation for the listener.

Ths XA2 has the advantage over the Xbox 360 as far as audio outputs and configurations go but it's not a complete solution either when it should be for a second generation player. For me the HD-DVD drive is a stop gap measure until something much better surfaces, which could be a better all-round player or an outcome to the format war. As for HD video content the HD-DVD drive is every bit as good as the XA2 and good enough to be on par with everything else with one exception. Its cooling fans are noisier.

good post and you are right many people are fooled into thinking one track is better then the other because one his lauder. this is especially true to those who think PCM is better then TrueHD on the same movie or visa versa.

BTW to the other poster the XBOX 360 does not downconvert to DD it downconverts to DTS.

[littlesaint]

Unless the intent is to watch more DVD's than HD-DVD's, which to my thinking would be counter intuitive. You bought that XA2 to watch hidef movies, right?

Not really. I have an extensive DVD collection and to my eyes the scaling on the XA2 is far superior in quality than any other DVD or HD-DVD player out there. Yes I do watch HD-DVD anytime I can, but my main motivation to choose the XA2 over the others was indeed DVD playback quality.

I agree with most of your points, but also look at your motivation. You see your HD-DVD player as a stop gap. I see mine as an investment, and other than DTS-HD MA recordings (pretty much a non-starter on HD-DVD) I really don't see where any improvement is necessary unless the format changes.

[Pez]

Honestly I am somewhat amazed serious HT junkies would use the xbox 360 add-on. I considered it for long time but it came down to this:

-No 1080p picture output (at least based in what I have seen in the specs)
-Lack of HDMI or analog outputs for HD audio output (unless you get the upgraded model with HDMI but even then its limited)
-to many stories of dead x-box's (I have since sold mine when I got the Wii)
-The xbox 360 is freaking loud!

Eventually I ended up getting the XA2 and have been very pleased. Yes the start-up time stinks but I just make sure to turn on before I leave the house in the morning and its ready to play when I get home from work .

Ironically I used to think the HD-DVD was slightly better but the last few blu-rays I have watched on my PS3 have been very good. Its more likely the transfer though as all are not created equal.

[littlesaint]

Honestly I am somewhat amazed serious HT junkies would use the xbox 360 add-on. I considered it for long time but it came down to this:

-No 1080p picture output (at least based in what I have seen in the specs)
-Lack of HDMI or analog outputs for HD audio output (unless you get the upgraded model with HDMI but even then its limited)
-to many stories of dead x-box's (I have since sold mine when I got the Wii)
-The xbox 360 is freaking loud!

Eventually I ended up getting the XA2 and have been very pleased. Yes the start-up time stinks but I just make sure to turn on before I leave the house in the morning and its ready to play when I get home from work .

Ironically I used to think the HD-DVD was slightly better but the last few blu-rays I have watched on my PS3 have been very good. Its more likely the transfer though as all are not created equal.

As RebelMan said, transfer is everything. I have DVDs that look incredible. Good enough to make you think HD-DVD isn't worth it. Especially when compared to some really bad HD-DVD transfers. This is why I'll usually rent the HD-DVD before buying to make sure it is worth replacing a DVD. Audio is the same, though I put less emphasis on audio for films. The HD codecs have more dynamic range, but if the mixing studio "engineers" the studio master before encoding, the extra bits could end up meaningless. It's lossless, but it may have been low-passed and dithered before encoding, effectively rendering it not all that HD anymore. Plus, studio masters are only 24bit/48KHz at best, so if you're a hi-res audio type, there's not much there to begin with anyway.

[Dean McManis]

I totally agree. If any link in the chain is weak then the overall quality will suffer. Having a quality film print, and excellent 1080p digital master can produce a superior looking image from a regular DVD on a SVGA projector. Sometimes it's even better than viewing a HD-DVD on a 1080p projector with a unrestored film, or poor transfer.

Unfortunately having a poor quality video source is often shown up even worse when blown up big with HD detail, as opposed to watching the same older movie on regular DVD on a 27" NTSC TV.

I'm also now reviewing most all of my HD-DVD movies first by renting them, before I buy them. The exceptions are the HD-DVD movies that I'm getting for free in this package deal, and digital animated movies that are assured of getting a direct digital HD transfer to HD-DVD. Like Ratatouille and Cars. :T

[Nolan B]

As RebelMan said, transfer is everything. I have DVDs that look incredible. Good enough to make you think HD-DVD isn't worth it. .

I am so puzzled when I read things like this. I have went from a near reference SD DVD set up (for plasma at least) to HD DVD and have since thought SD DVD doesnt hold a torch to any HD DVD. Not in in the slightest under any condition. Fact is the day I got my HD DVD player I decided I wouldnt pay $100 for the world's best SD DVD player.

(The Xbox Add on will make Transformers look better on HD DVD then ANY dvd player in the world will make the SD DVD version look.)

^^^i believe the above example is a major problem for CEs today, and "Hi End" HT dealers who dont sell HD players.

Sure a bad transfer makes HD DVD look poor, or not ass good as it coule, but even the worst transfer looks better then SD DVD. Every time. At least it has every time for me and i have bought over 150 HD DVD/BD tittles to compare to.

I will admit I own 2 HD tittles which dont look MUCH better then the DVD version. Crash on BD looks only slightly better then the DVD version, and I believe it has to do with the how it was filmed, and 28 days later looks no different then the DVD version, but its clear why that is.

Especially when compared to some really bad HD-DVD transfers. This is why I'll usually rent the HD-DVD before buying to make sure it is worth replacing a DVD. Audio is the same, though I put less emphasis on audio for films. The HD codecs have more dynamic range, but if the mixing studio "engineers" the studio master before encoding, the extra bits could end up meaningless. It's lossless, but it may have been low-passed and dithered before encoding, effectively rendering it not all that HD anymore. Plus, studio masters are only 24bit/48KHz at best, so if you're a hi-res audio type, there's not much there to begin with anyway.

I feel similar to the new audio available on HD DVD/BD as I do video. Yes there are rare exceptions to the rule, and some older tittles dont benefit much from lossless as newer ones, but 90% of the time lossless audio (even DD+) sounds much much better when comparing apples to apples.

Example: Casino Royal on BD lossless compared to the DD track on SD DVD is easy to determin in a blind test. Just last night my wife an I were watching The Holiday on BD. I was out of the room getting a beer when the wife started the movie...as soon as I entered the room I could tell she didnt switch the audio over to the lossless track.

I will admit there are tittles where dont benefit from lossless or DD+. Original Dawn of the Dead, Casablanca, are examples of older ones...and Planet Earth, Sopranos are examples of some newer ones. Just because there are exeptions to the rule doesnt mean the rule isnt true...to me anyway.



****BTW someone posted not knowing if the Xbox does 1080p...the answer is yes it does.

[John Holmes]

Vancouver,

I think the difference comes down to displays. On microdisplays and RPTV, IMO, the difference is larger. With front projection, it can be anywhere from subtle to huge. At least in my home, on my 56" 1080i CRT RPTV and 92" 720p DLP FPTV, that's the way it is.

I guess one could also argue the 1080i vs 720p in my case as well.