Cables Smables (borrowed that from Fran Drescher)

[Doug]

How do you folks feel about cables. Do you think they are important in your system, or do you just look for connecting from point A to point B and carrying a signal?

Are there any cables in your system that you put importance on, moreso over others?

Does appearance matter to you, even if you know most of them won't be seen that often by that many?

Do you ever show friends the back side of your system, just to say, hey, how cool is this? Could you wire this up if I unplugged em all right now?

This thread has nothing to do with my cable business, just trying to spark something, anything here, to a member base that has become a little to quite!

Doug

[SiliGoose]

Geez Lex...trying to spark posting or controversy?

I'm a non-believer when it comes to cables. While I'm unable to hear the difference between cables I do like them to look nice. I'll pay a bit extra for quality looking cables.

Maybe it's just me -lots of folks can hear differences in cables. I used to work at a HT store and when we were bored (which was quite often) we'd swap out speaker cables and interconnects. Some of the guys claimed to hear dramatic changes in the sound but my ears didn't hear a thing.

I'd be all over a CatCables line that looked nice but used lesser quality internals (maybe call them KittenCables?) j/k




-Sili

[David Meek]

I'm a believer - to a point. How's that for fence-sitting?

I had OEM patch cords in my system up until 2 years ago when I splurged and replaced all analog RCA's with AudioQuest Topaz 1-meter runs and the digital/optical with AudioQuest Digital Ones and AudioQuest Optical Ones, each a 1-meter run. It made a lot of difference in the clarity and soundstaging. I've since gone back and put the OEM patch cords back in as a test and it's VERY noticable going backwards. More than it was going up to the Topaz the first time. I'm accustomed to (and like) the AQ's and putting the OEM's in just wrecked the presentation.

Now whether a $5,000 1-meter Nordost makes that much difference, I don't think it would. But, I don't know for sure and won't ever find out. Hey that's a thought! Doug, can I borrow a set of those new Quantum (place name here) cables as a test for my ability to discerne differences in super-quality cables? I'll be sure to send them right back when I finish with them.

maybe . . .

As far as speaker cables go - again I think they do make a difference up to a point. I've gone from "lamp cord" to Monster 12-gauge to MIT Terminator 4's with a substantial increase in sound quality each time. I've even gone so far as to purchase a 6-foot pair of AudioQuest Calderas without testing them. I'm planning on a 2-channel rig one of these days and the price was too good to pass up. I've toyed with the idea of testing them in the theater room, but that would require moving the RX-V1 out of the rack into the center of the room in front of the RPTV. Life's been too busy to really consider that and after screwing up my back, it's definitely been a no-no. Maybe this summer . . . :?




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[Andrew Pratt]

I used to be firmly in the "so long as they are not patch cords, they're all the same" but a few years ago a few friends and I sat down with some new IXOS cables that I'd won and did a blind test b/t the IXOS ones and some Audioquest emeralds. We had a friend install both sets from the some CD player (it had dual analog outs) and they went into two different inputs on the receiver. None of those listening knew which cable was on which input yet both Jay and I picked out cable X from cable Y every single time....in that case the IXOS had more "air" and slightly deeper bass. After that test I was a believer and have never questioned people claiming to hear differences again. I'm still not sure about digital cables having never heard a difference between those but like goose above I have no problem paying a little extra to get some quality cable regarless of if it makes it sound better or not...fact is I know its not making it worse and I feel better knowing they are quality cables. I now have silvercats on all my runs from the pre amp to the various amps I have and from the CD player to the pre amp. IMO I'd rather invest in these runs where the extra detail is needed then invest in high dollar cables for something like the VCR etc. For those I'm using coppercats or Radio Shack gold cables.

[David Meek]

I should mention that recently, I put in CATCables digital (75 ohm) Tigerpaws for my Yamaha CD-R1000 'burner to replace the analogs I was using.



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[Kevin P]

How do you folks feel about cables. Do you think they are important in your system, or do you just look for connecting from point A to point B and carrying a signal?

Of course they're important! If you stuff a bunch of components in a rack but don't plug 'em together with cables, they ain't gonna work! :LOL:

Of course they're important in my system. I just LOVE the Cats I have in there so far (SilverCats for analog SACD audio, and a Tigress for component video). I definitely want more down the road!

Are there any cables in your system that you put importance on, moreso over others?

Definitely. I'd prioritize them as follows: DVD Component or S-video, analog ICs between pre-pro and amp (if using separates), CD/SACD analog audio, digital audio (CD or DVD), any other quality source's audio/video (MD, LD, turntables), and finally low-grade sources such as VCRs, cable boxes, cassette decks, etc.

Does appearance matter to you, even if you know most of them won't be seen that often by that many?

You're asking the anti-dress code guy if appearance is important? Oh what the hey, if a cable looks nice, I don't mind. If it's Cat/Quantum cables, yummy!! :B

Do you ever show friends the back side of your system, just to say, hey, how cool is this?

Only my HT nut friends who would be interested in seeing my Cats.

Could you wire this up if I unplugged em all right now?

I'd know exactly where the Silvercats go, the rest though... :?

One other thing. Sure it's great when a nice cable sounds (or looks, for video cables) better than a crap cable, but I find build quality important too. I don't want my cables becoming flaky or slipping off the RCA jacks. Speaking of which, I need to upgrade my LFE cables... gotta wait for that "paycheck" thing I keep hearing about...




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[Markj]

Interconnect cables should have connecters that are well connected and stay put where you connect it. But I have not heard differences between different interconnects. Same with speaker cable I cannot hear a difference.

[John Holmes]

I know that cables make a difference.

Many, many years ago, I had my rear speakers wired with the zipcord that came with speakers (Altec Lansing). No mater what I did, the the sound was low. Well, I knew a friend in the business that swore it was the wires. I broke down and bought some Monster XP. I felt like a fool...he was right! Since that time I buy decent wire.

I bought MIT cables ( when Audio Advisor was blowing them out) for the L/C/R's and have been very happy with them. And as hard as it seems to believe, when I went from XP to RS 12 awg for my sub, the output difference was very shocking. It did a much better job.

As far as which one not to skimp on...I would guess at the video connection.

Oneday when I grow up, I hope to have a CAT or two in my system! :yeah:




"I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's

[marc seals]

Cables do make a difference in sound. However I don't feel that you "need" to spend hundreds or more per cable to get a definate improvement.

I put my best cables on my front 3 preamp to amp connections and the CD player. I didn't see the need to buy new cables for the surround channels or cable to preamp connections.

Appearance matters somewhat to me for RCA cables but moreso for speaker cables since they are more visible

A little cable history.....
I replaced the front 3 Monster M550i interconnects and front 3 speaker cables with BetterCables about 8 months ago after winning a contest on another forum. Basically the Bettercables blew the Monster cables away for clarity, though not much difference in soundstage or depth if any. I really couldn't tell a difference in the speaker cables. The previous speaker cables were StraightWire Octaves. All the BetterCables were marginally less expensive than the ones they replaced so you really don't always have to spend more to get an improvement. Of course in my case I didn't have to spend anything!!

[LarryB]

I guess you would call me a believer as I use Nordost Blue Heaven speaker wires and Nordost quatrofil interconnects (which replaced Blue Heaven interconnects). For me, the looks are insignificant; the sound is everything.

Larry

[LarryB]

MarkJ:

But I have not heard differences between different interconnects. Same with speaker cable I cannot hear a difference.

My guess is that you could hear a diference for music with a high-resolution system, and with some extended listening. Differences in wires are usually subtle and tend not to jump out at you.

Larry

[Markj]

Larry I don’t have the electronics you have for sure. 8O My system is biased toward music and I have listen extensively to music using different cables. In my evaluations high cost cables is waited on me.

[SiliGoose]

My guess is that you could hear a diference for music with a high-resolution system, and with some extended listening.

I don't know. I've had the benefit of working in a place that sold equipment many times more than I could afford. Given their nice components I never heard a difference.
I'm not saying there wasn't a difference, I'm just saying I didn't hear one.

I don't think either side of this arguement wants to admit it but there is a phenomenon of the listener hearing what he wants to hear. If, at some level, you want to hear a difference or don't want to hear a difference you can fool yourself.

Perhaps I didn't want to hear an improvement with a $200 per foot brand of speaker cable. Perhaps you do want to hear a difference after spending that amount on your cable.

I don't know...but that possibility certainly exists.




-Sili

[Lex]

Well, interesting mix here.

Personally? I heard the difference 2 nights ago, when I removed my new Silver Centauri Reference Speaker Cables to condition them on my Cable Cooker. As soon as I hooked up the old audioquest Indigo, it was like the soundstage fell flat. I made sure to listen very closely both before and after the change. Yes, there was a delay, while connecting, but the differences were there.

Now, I will admit, you can't always hear differences on all systems, and as Larry said, many times, the differences are very suttle. But they can be there, and I have heard this effect more than once. Also, many of my customers have heard differences.

So, Sili, while I respect your opinion, I whole heartedly disagree, as we already knew. (rewind, Sili and I had this discussion before)

Lex

[David Meek]

Lex, purely in the interests of science and good thorough investigative procedures, you should send me that specific pair of the Silver Centauri's and let me do an extensive set of A/B testing in my home environment. When can I expect the cables? :W

(just doing what's best for you, boss)




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[ThomasW]

Sili

Try a pair of the Jon Risch's DIY recipe #2 interconnects. These are a very low buck way to tryout a pretty exotic cable design.

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/cables.htm

A friend recently ask me to audition a pair of the Risch recipe IC's . Given the very modest price of the Risch design, I was pretty pretty impressed with their performance when A/B'ed against some $450-$900/meter IC's I have. They are however quite labor intensive to make

We sent a set of the Risch recipe IC's and a length of his speaker wire out to Jon for measurement and evalutaion. Jon's the only one I know that has test equipment sophisticated enough to accurately measure the differences in cables. The more we test, the more we're convinced that the 'audible' differences in cables are directlly related to how they measure.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Markj]

I will not go as far as saying that those that hear a difference must be cause by the placebo effect. People have different thresh holds of pain, so some have more sensitive hearing than others. I can hear differences in amps. For me it’s hard to tell the difference between DACs. Lex I am always willing to continue this investigation so if you have some CATs that need testing let me know. I don’t have cheap cable in my system just not the most expensive.

[JonMarsh]

At one time I thought that beyond a certain level of construction quality and sheild coverage, interconnects and speaker wire wouldn't make much difference.

However, a number of evaluations over the years, when placebo effect would have led me to *prefer* the simpler solution has too often resulted findings I might have preferred to ignore, but in the quest for more tranparent reproduction, couldn't. This is especially true as system transparency increases, using speakers maintaining largely pistonic diaphragm behavior (whether planars or high end dynamic systems, like Avalon's), and using better electronics, especially non loop feedback electronics. In these cases, improvements in more "subtle" parts of the system, such as cables, become more important, and more potentially, a limiting factor.

This has led me to be very careful in choosing cables when working on projects like a DAC or power amp, as well as for speakers. In an increasing number of cases, I felt compelled to build and evaluate cables my self, partly because I can't always afford the ones I would buy, left to just their sonic merits.

Cable thread

These differences and benefits are quite audible in systems as simple as a well designed 8" two way- all other components being up to the task.


Regards,

Jon




Earth First!
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We'll screw up the other planets later....

[SiliGoose]

Hey Lex,

What's a "cable cooker"?




-Sili

[Lex]

You can see the Audiodharma Cable Cooker here:

http://www.quantumcable.com/dharma.htm

It's a standard service at Quantum Cable. The machine is pretty cool, capable of handling RCA, BNC, XLR, and banana and spade fitted speaker cables as well as power cables.

What it does, is stress the dielectric or coating more than just playing audio through it could ever do. It has a positive influence on the sound, and creates directional cables.

Lex

[SiliGoose]

[restraint]Oh...I think it best I not comment on that one [/restraint]




-Sili

[David Meek]

Hey Sili, I hope that you are posting at 4:00 AM because you just got back from seeing Attack Of The Clones! C'mon, give . . .




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[Brandon B]

Jon -

Did you test the Jon Risch 82859 cross connect speaker cable, and if so, how well did it do?

BB

[JonMarsh]

Not yet. The person who was supposed to deliver it to me was waylaid by family problems. Originally, I was going to do objective tests here in CA, before taking it back to CO to do listening tests in the M8 MkIII system we setup at ThomasW's last week; we were also going to compare it against the DIY speaker cable, as well as do some other cable shootouts, but that never happened as we were very busy with the speaker stuff.

-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[SiliGoose]

Hey Sili, I hope that you are posting at 4:00 AM because you just got back from seeing Attack Of The Clones! C'mon, give . .

Wow...you're good. Actually, I noticed all the HT forums were DEAD last night...guess we all went to see it.

It was a good time. I'm going to reserve my opinion, however, until I've seen it 3 or 4 times. The only thing I'll say right now is that Lucas shouldn't be directing anymore. He's just not very good at it. He should produce and let a real director take the reigns.




-Sili

[ThomasW]

Ray Kimber (you all know who he is I hope ) has been known to put speaker cables between a car + battery lead and the + battery terminal . Then use the cable to start the car. Sort of the DIY quick and dirty cable cooker. He claims it's not harmful to the wire and very quickly 'cooks' the cable. I'll take his word for it since he has unlimited access to wire and I don't




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio