5.1 vs 6.1 vs 7.1

[SiliGoose]

Just curious on thoughts here. Is the added cost/set-up of a 6.1 or 7.1 DD/DTS system really worth it? I'm not talking about Logic 7...just pure DD/DTS soundtracks. Can you honestly say it was worth the upgrade?

I've seen pics on several personal websites where the rear center speaker(s) are in a totally awkward position (e.g. the seating position is directly against a wall and the rear center is mounted on that wall). I cannot possibly imagine a worse set-up yet lots of people have spent the money despite their space restrictions.

No offense, but if you have one of these "awkward" set-ups I won't believe you if you tell me your 6.1 or 7.1 system is much better than 5.1 (unless you invite me over to experience it myself ).

Am I wrong in my assumption that any system incorporating a rear center needs to meet certain space requirements?




-Sili

[P-Dub]

I've wondered about how effect the extra rear channel would be. If I were to get a new receiver, I'd like to have that option, but placement would be a problem.

For the 7.1 or 8.1 aren't the extra speakers for effects? So placement isn't as important?




Paul

There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

[Bob]

Silli,
Of course it is up to you if the extra channels are worth it or not but, those of us that have tried them can give you our opinions. Up until last week my system was using eight channels through my Casablanca II. For the sides I tried direct speakers for awhile and then for the last few months I switched to dipole speakers to see the difference. The rear channel was also a direct speaker. My room isn't awkward at all and the seating and the five main speakers are all well into the room. The sides and rear speaker were directly on the walls.
My opinion is that the 3 extra channels were a waste of time, at least in a room as small as my home theater (about 500 sq. feet). I can see their usefullness in a large room with rows of seats that blocked the sound from some of the seating positions. Otherwise, what's their point? Just like your other two surrounds all they are for are ambiant noise. If you can already hear that clearly from the two speakers you are already using for the rear surrounds the additional 3 speakers are not going to add anything significant to the soundtrack.

[SiliGoose]

Bob,

That exactly what I was thinking...so I was shocked to see someone actually post what I was thinking. Thanks for the honest opinion. I suspect there's a lot of pride in installing extra speakers and it may be tough to not say something extremely positive about that configuration.

On the other hand, I certainly don't intend to sound so negative about greater than 5.1 set-ups. I'd like to try it but I'm not going to go through the trouble/expense unless I'm positive it'll bring about a significant performance improvement.




-Sili

[Lex]

Well, I do enjoy the Lexicon Logic 7 setup. No, it's not earthshattering differences most of the time. But there is the occasional passage, where you say, wow, that was cool. It also can provide additional ambience with a wider rear soundstage.

I don't think I would care so much for 6.1 with a rear speaker right behind me. I think like a rear sub, I would find that to distracting.

Would I go through the expense again to do 7.1? I don't know if I would or not, but no regrets on my 7 channel Sonus faber Proceed combo. It's a combo that I can be happy with for a very long time.

Bob, good to see you around, and nice honest comments.

Lex

[Clive]

I remember sitting in a THX certified theater with my daughter watching "LORD OF THE RINGS" it was setup with a rear center channel. I was made aware of it's existance, when a signal was sent only to that speaker alone ONCE in the movie. However, it was amazing. Of course that's a large room/theater, but wouldn't it be nice to know that every bit of sound from every track of a DVD is heard whether or not the rear center channel it's utilized all the time? What does the future hold for us?




CLIVE




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[Bruce]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an output signal destined for center rear be pretty well focused as a "phantom center" with two direct radiating surround speakers (as in 5.1)?

Just like it does with a pair of main speakers used as a stereo pair?

Now this is dependant on the sweet spot and number of viewers of course.




Bruce
____________________________________________

[Markj]

Great info and the sentiment here is how I feel. I think a 7.1 is worth while if you have a large room and have the right equipment. A well setup 5.1 system can create very impressive sound. But I know some that would not have anything less than 7.1. That is what makes HT fun!

[George Bellefontaine]

I have a 7.1 setup and love it. Flyovers are really great, and jungle sounds, from films like the Jurassic Park series, seem to come from everywhere. I have never regretted upgrading.




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[Bob Santos]

Perfect timing on this thread Sili.
I am currently renovating my HT room. When I set everything back up my B7K Ref 30 will have been replaced by a Lex MC-1.
With Lexicons Logic7 I am really thinking about adding 2 rear speakers. I will however have to have one of those "awkward" set-ups if I want my 7.1 system. I am one of those with my couch up against the wall. I would probably have to go with possibly in ceiling speakers. My side surrounds are where dolby recommends at the side of the listener a few feet up. The rears would be slighly behind, but all the way up in the ceiling. I am thinking that may make for a pretty wierd effect. Hard to say until I try.
I have enough channels of amplification, so the only expense would be the speakers, and the wire to run through the wall.
I am on the fence as to weather or not to do it. The ceiling speakers would be from the same company as my other speakers, and use the same drivers, so maybe it wouldnt be too bad?
I do have a extra set of Definitive Pro Monitor 100's I can set up temporarily to see if it seems like it would be worth it. I may try that before I buy more speakers.

[SiliGoose]

Ceiling speakers may be an interesting solution. I hadn't thought of that.

Do you have the ability to change rooms? I have 2 rooms in my basement that go almost totally unused. I've been thinking about knocking out the wall between them to give me more HT space.

Then again, we're talking about getting a new house...purely for HT needs, I assure you.




-Sili

[Bob Santos]

Unfortunately changing rooms isnt an option at the moment.
I do have a unfinished basement that someday I would like to finish. At that time I may be able to do a dedicated HT room. For now there are way to many projects in the house that need to be done first. Plus if I finish the basement now theres no doubt that my wife would demand it be a play room for our 5 year old daughter
instead of a HT. So basically what ever the age that kids grow out of play rooms subtract 5 from that, and thats when I will have a dedicated room for my HT
As far as the ceiling speakers go. I have a friend who uses a set of Definitive UIW bipolar speakers in his ceiling for a 5.1 system. Hopefully sometime in the new week I will get over there and listen to them. It's been a long time since I heard his system, but I remember not beeing to impressed with the speakers up there.
Though having channels 6 and 7 in the ceiling may not be as bad as the sole rear's in a 5.1 system.

[Lex]

Bob, can you move your couch off the rear wall, even as little as 3 feet? If so, and your sides can be moved forward just a bit, you can get about 6 feet of separation between the sides and rears in conventional mounting, and achieve a very nice and balanced soundstage. Of course, you can aim both tweeters at the sweet spot, creating nice imaging between the two. This is about the setup that I have, though I don't really aim my side tweeters to much, they are fairly perpindicular to the wall. Rears are aimed to the sweet spot.

Lex

[David Meek]

6.1 is a worthwhile step up. I had it in our old HT room (see images in signature link) and have not been able to set it up in our new room yet. I miss it a lot! Fly-overs are much more natural sounding and the sonics from a "phantom image" are not as realistic. Actually I was running 8.1 as Yamaha has two "front effects" channels that are bandwidth limited and sit outside and above the mains. They add an amazing amount of depth and width to the soundstage for movies.

Ooops. That should read " I had the ceiling-mounted arrangement in our old HT room."




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[MRWILLL]

I've listened to some very good 5.1/6.1 systems. I prefer a very good 5.1 system over a very good 6.1 system. Why? Because I have gotten use to my 7.2 (2 subs), and the 6.1 (rear centre) is way too localizible to me. With me, it's all about power, dynamics, and a well blended/balanced system. With movies with a contineous rear soundfield, it can sound just as good as my front. If possible, listen to a properly set up 7.1 full range spk system.




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[Bob Santos]

Doug, Unfortunately moving the couch out isn't a option

Since the room is torn apart for for renovations I amanaged to talk my wife into the fact that if I was ging to add rear surrounds, now
would be the time to do it. So I got the OK to pick up a set of rear surrounds. I decided that really the only way to go in my room is with in ceiling speakers. I picked up a set of Definitive UIWBP/A's.
They are a two driver bipolar inwall speaker. They use the same driver as my side surrounds, so the should integrate nicely.
I just picked up a Lexicon MC-1 to replace my Ref 30. If I didnt get the MC-1 I probably would have stayed 5.1 for now. The Lex has such a great reputation for 7.1 processing, since I now have the Lex I felt I owe it to myself to use it to it's fullest capabilities
( A good hobbiest can always rationalize any purchase ).
The room is almost finished. Hopefully by next weekend I will have everything up and running. I will give a full report of how my awkward rear surround setup worked out.

[SiliGoose]

Cool new MC-1!! I'm very jealous.

If you don't mind I'd like to hear how the installation of the ceiling speakers goes. It's a route I may take some day.




-Sili

[Bob Santos]

Well I finally about three weeks ago managed to find the time to install my rear surrounds. Here's my thoughts.
The ceiling is definately not the perfect place for rear surrounds, but it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.
I listened to all the Dolby EX titles I have, and I must say that it's a pretty cool effect. However I'm sure it would be much better with the rear channels setup in proper room configuration.
Is it worth upgrading to in a room that forces a "awkward" placement? I would have to say (IMHO ofcourse) NO!! It's not that big of a improvement over a well configured 5.1 setup.
I have no regrets in doing the upgrade, and I would do it again.
Every once in a while when something happens that was well placed in the rear channels, it does bring a big smile to my face. If asked "Is the added cost/set-up of a 6.1 or 7.1 DD/DTS system really worth it? " I would have to say no it isn't. That ofcourse is answering for a "awkward" room setup. In a perfect room, with perfect placement things may be different.

[Andrew Pratt]

Now that my rotel is in I can now comment on the 5.1 vs 7.1 configs. In my room with two rows of seating 7.1 is well worth the effort. It simply fills the room much better then 5.1 does esp in the back row of seating. My room is 23 feet deep though so having speakers in the middle and the rear helps fill that back space well. I'm very happy with my system in 7.1 but I would have to agree that you need the room for it otherwise there wouldn't be any benefit to be gained.

[George Bellefontaine]

I'd have to agree with Andrew. My room is 18 feet deep and the 7.1 arrangement really made a difference to my original 5.1 arrangement.




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