Parasound Halo C1 or Anthem Statement D1

[Peterc4c]

I've narrowed down my choices to these 2 Pre/Pro. Can anybody who knows about these two units give me some advise as to what to get.

speakers includes.
2 Martin Logan Arius front.
1 martin Logan Cinema Center
1 sunfire sub.
2 in ceiling surround to be determined.

Peter

[sikoniko]

I don't know much about either, but unless you need the display on the front, you can save yourself some money and get the C2. from my understanding, they are identical except for the screen. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Peterc4c]

I don't NEED the display on the front. But I just think it's incredibly cool to have.

Peter

[Bing Fung]

Then your choice should be easier... The D1 does not have the LCD screen.

I have not heard either, however If It were my choice I would like to try the D1 :T

[LEVESQUE]

They just made a shoot-out in Sound & Vision between the Anthem AVM-30 ($3k), Parasound Halo C-1 ($6k) and Krell Showcase ($4k). They did like those 3 pre/pros alot. But for 1/2 the price, the AVM30 was giving a tough ride to the C1. And the D1 beeing superior to the AVM30, I think we can extrapolate the results between the C1 and D1...

Another thing is that the upgrades to the C1/C2 will either not come for a very long time, or be horribly expensive (I heard a $800 figure being tossed around). You can easily download the upgrades to the AVM30 or D1, except when they will add the upconversion, firewire (i-link) and HDMI switching by the end of this year or early next year.

Cons of the C2:

- doesn't recognise the Dolby Digital 2.0 encoding flag
- can't turn th Cinema RE-EQ function off if using THX modes (except Music)
- auto calibration seems to be at least a foot off (for every speaker) in most instances
- blue lights in front panel can't be dimmed
- doesn't do bass management on analog input
- Parasound doesn't post firmware updates on their website
- front panel on C2 doesn't have any direct inputs (you're stuck using remote)
- only one set of global speaker settings
- analog bypass is 'only' through the balanced XLR's
- DTS96/24 - decoded at 48kHz
- No HDMI or DVI upgrade planned

But beeing an Anthem D1 owner, I can't find any cons (just kidding...) and will let C1/C2 owners compile the same list for the D1...

But to be fair:

-we can't disable the upsampling (would like to appreciate the difference between the with and w/o upsampling...)
-still waiting for DPLIIx after 5 months, when almost everyone else has it
-no auto-eq function... but they are talking about implementing a 5 mics solution "in the future"...

A big plus is the upcoming hardware upgrade for the AVM20/AVM30/D1:

-video transcoding, and HDMI switching with 2 (or 4) HDMI in 1 HDMI out
-firewire (i-link) with 2 in 1 out

And Anthem did prove with the AVM20 that they can really do it, and not only make false promises like some other companies out there... Some people are using the AVM20 since 3-4 years (because of all the hardware/firmware upgrades), and with the upcoming major hardware upgrade, they will probably use it for another 2-3 years w/o any problems! So you don't need to sell your machine to buy the next iteration from the company...

But the best way to know is to bring both machines home (if you can) to perform some extensive listening sessions. You are the one spending the money.... not us. They are both awesome machines. So you have to weight all the pros and cons, and check all the features you need.

I think you can't really go wrong with both. :T

[mtw]

I recently purchased a Denon 3910 and a D1 coupled with a Rotel RMB-1095 driving Totem Acoustics Signature 1s and a Velodyne DD-12 sub.

The biggest thing the D1 has going for it is the 192k upsampling. Listening to the difference between the analog inputs (with no upsampling) and the digital input with upsampling is a like night and day. Imaging is much more precise, soundstage is much wider, better high end clarity with less "edge".

I don't claim to be an A/V expert, nor have I been fortunate enough to audition hundreds of pieces of equipment, but I can honestly say that the D1 is a fantastic processor and I don't see a need to upgrade for years. (given Anthem's forward-looking hardware design I don't have much fear of the unit not supporting new standards and technologies for a good while.)

[jimmyp58]

Nice purchases mtw. Question though is why you opted for the Rotel amp instead of one of the Anthem's?

[mtw]

Nice purchases mtw. Question though is why you opted for the Rotel amp instead of one of the Anthem's?

Thanks Jimmy! I just borrowed U571 from a friend yesterday... all I can say is :T

The decision to go with the Rotel was threefold:

1) budget issue. My dealer offered me a great price on the 1095.

2) bang for the buck: I think that "front loading" the system provides more tangible results than the "back end" (see also number 1)

3) space/political concerns: the P5 is a big beast. I just didn't have the space for it and my significant other would blow a gasget if she saw how big the P5 is! :B

[LEVESQUE]

3) space/political concerns: the P5 is a big beast. I just didn't have the space for it and my significant other would blow a gasget if she saw how big the P5 is! :B

Yep. My wife gave me the "mean look" :twisted: when she did see the P5. She did find the amp really big and told me: "Are you serious? This huge thing is going in your HT? Are you crazy!". :rofl:

It's TOTALLY impossible to sneak a P5 past your wife... The P5 with the package is SO huge! :lol:

And Jimmy. Don't laugh here! I would love to see the look on your wife's face when she will see your new speakers (6' tall towers) in "HER" living-room... :E

:rofl:

[jimmyp58]

I am going to have pictures taken when the freight company shows up and me standing next to the speaker boxes.

What I might try to do is have someone take a picture of my wife when she comes home from work and sees those beasts in "HER" living room!!!

[Peterc4c]

wow. What a nice comparison. Thanks.

My concerns are 1. Street price of the D1/P5 is actually quit higher then the C1/a51 package. ( about 2200 difference actually)
2. I've confirmed w/ Parasound that their DPLIIX upgrade is due to be released in Dec.
3. as this is going in a custom install. the remote issue does'nt bother me.

However.
the promise of the Anthem's DVI and HDMI has that going for it.
I love the look of the D1/P5 units.
along w/ other things going for it makes me want to spend that extra 2k.

I am going to try to hear both. It won't be in a controled enviroment. but will try to go to their dealers this weekend.

Thank you for your input. It really helps me get what I am getting into.

Peter

They just made a shoot-out in Sound & Vision between the Anthem AVM-30 ($3k), Parasound Halo C-1 ($6k) and Krell Showcase ($4k). They did like those 3 pre/pros alot. But for 1/2 the price, the AVM30 was giving a tough ride to the C1. And the D1 beeing superior to the AVM30, I think we can extrapolate the results between the C1 and D1...

Another thing is that the upgrades to the C1/C2 will either not come for a very long time, or be horribly expensive (I heard a $800 figure being tossed around). You can easily download the upgrades to the AVM30 or D1, except when they will add the upconversion, firewire (i-link) and HDMI switching by the end of this year or early next year.

Cons of the C2:

- doesn't recognise the Dolby Digital 2.0 encoding flag
- can't turn th Cinema RE-EQ function off if using THX modes (except Music)
- auto calibration seems to be at least a foot off (for every speaker) in most instances
- blue lights in front panel can't be dimmed
- doesn't do bass management on analog input
- Parasound doesn't post firmware updates on their website
- front panel on C2 doesn't have any direct inputs (you're stuck using remote)
- only one set of global speaker settings
- analog bypass is 'only' through the balanced XLR's
- DTS96/24 - decoded at 48kHz
- No HDMI or DVI upgrade planned

But beeing an Anthem D1 owner, I can't find any cons (just kidding...) and will let C1/C2 owners compile the same list for the D1...

But to be fair:

-we can't disable the upsampling (would like to appreciate the difference between the with and w/o upsampling...)
-still waiting for DPLIIx after 5 months, when almost everyone else has it
-no auto-eq function... but they are talking about implementing a 5 mics solution "in the future"...

A big plus is the upcoming hardware upgrade for the AVM20/AVM30/D1:

-video transcoding, and HDMI switching with 2 (or 4) HDMI in 1 HDMI out
-firewire (i-link) with 2 in 1 out

And Anthem did prove with the AVM20 that they can really do it, and not only make false promises like some other companies out there... Some people are using the AVM20 since 3-4 years (because of all the hardware/firmware upgrades), and with the upcoming major hardware upgrade, they will probably use it for another 2-3 years w/o any problems! So you don't need to sell your machine to buy the next iteration from the company...

But the best way to know is to bring both machines home (if you can) to perform some extensive listening sessions. You are the one spending the money.... not us. They are both awesome machines. So you have to weight all the pros and cons, and check all the features you need.

I think you can't really go wrong with both. :T

[LEVESQUE]

Peter. Where do you live?

In Canada, the combo D1/P5 is ALOT cheaper then the Parasound combo. In the USA, it's another story. In Canada, Parasound are overpriced. And in the USA, Anthem are "overpriced" compared to the price we can find in Canada.

In Canada, you can buy the D1/P5 combo for under 6000$ US...

[mtw]

In Canada, you can buy the D1/P5 combo for under 6000$ US...

:jawdrop:

[Peterc4c]

Levesque:

I am in US....... D1/P5 I've seen are around 8g

Peter

[Chris D]

Hmmmm... not quite an "impartial" review, Levesque, but good reading nonetheless. To be thorough, the Audioholics review that you quote from HERE has this list Halo C1/C2 of pros and cons. C1/C2 upgrades are coming at the end of this year, which should include DPLIIx and a lot more. DVI/HDMI switching and firewire connections are a real possibility.

Pros
Automatic Speaker Distance Calibration
Automatic Speaker Level Calibration
Video Pass Through - No Power Required
BNC Video Connection Inputs and Outputs
Easy to Set-Up
THX Ultra2
On-The-Fly Channel Trims
Volume in Analog Domain
Preset volume adjustments for analog inputs
Additional Customizable Channels
RS-232 Interface
Software Programmable
Universal Remote MX-700 with Side-Kick
Balanced XLR Inputs and Outputs
10-year warranty

Cons

No Component Video Up-Conversion
No Dolby Pro-LogicIIx (available soon via firmware)
No 1394 IEEE Input or Output
No HDMI or DVI Inputs (which were unavailable during the time of design)
One Set of Global Speaker Settings
Currently Decodes DTS 96/24 as 48kHz
Only One Set of Multi-Channel Inputs
Analog Bypass only with Balanced XLR Inputs

As a Parasound Halo owner (C1, A51, A21) I love them. I have very little to no experience with Anthem, so I can't (and wouldn't) presume to espouse their flaws. I haven't personally come across someone with Martin Logans and Halo equipment, so I'd be VERY interested in hearing what someone were to experience with that combo.

[LEVESQUE]

There is a review of the D1 in the new Perfect Vision magazine in which they also add it to the Golden Eye awards for the year as the best pre-pro for 2004.

And also those 2 reviews are interesting:

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/anthem_statement_d1.htm

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_2/anthem-statement-d1-ssp-6-2004-part-1.html

[sikoniko]

I think one neat feature of the halo's is the 9.1 speaker setup if you have a long room... allowing for an additional pair of side speakers.

[Chris D]

Heeheee, that's true, Sikoniko. Currently, I'm running an 8.2 speaker setup. I have the typical 7.1, then am using one programmable output to duplicate the subwoofer output to my 2nd sub. (running a pair of SVS PC-Ultra Subwoofers) I'm using another channel output to drive my Clark Synthesis tactile transducers, which add a very nice touch. That leaves me with two more programmable channels. I think the next step for me would actually be to add a ceiling speaker, believe it or not, for a 9.2 setup. Hmmm... to make it 10.2... uh... I don't know... maybe a front effect speaker.

[bhuskins]

But for 1/2 the price, the AVM30 was giving a tough ride to the C1. And the D1 beeing superior to the AVM30, I think we can extrapolate the results between the C1 and D1...

I think this is a bad assumption. Sound and Vision should have used the C2 in their review. Using the C1 skews the results based on price alone. Being involved with Halo and Anthem at my store, it's not as cut and dry as you make it seem. I personally know I could have either in my home and I've chosen Halo. Cost is irrelevant to me simply because I'm a dealer.

Another thing is that the upgrades to the C1/C2 will either not come for a very long time, or be horribly expensive (I heard a $800 figure being tossed around). You can easily download the upgrades to the AVM30 or D1, except when they will add the upconversion, firewire (i-link) and HDMI switching by the end of this year or early next year.

This information is inaccurate and untrue. The upgrades are not rumored to be expensive. It's quite the opposite. They will be much more cost effective than you allude. Also, it will be sooner versus later. Any software updates for Halo will be firmware downloadable as well.

Cons of the C2:

- auto calibration seems to be at least a foot off (for every speaker) in most instances
- doesn't do bass management on analog input
- Parasound doesn't post firmware updates on their website
- front panel on C2 doesn't have any direct inputs (you're stuck using remote)
- analog bypass is 'only' through the balanced XLR's
- DTS96/24 - decoded at 48kHz
- No HDMI or DVI upgrade planned

Auto calibration is not "off" it actually utilizes theoretical/acoustical distances that won't specifically relate to real physical measurements. The auto calibration is dead on if performed properly.

I think bass management on analog inputs is the worst part about the Anthem D1. It performs it mediocre at best.

Parasound will make it's soon to be released software readily available to end users.

I dislike the clutter of the D1 front panel and I'm all for being relegated to the remote. Who wants all those ugly buttons?

Analog bypass is 'only' through the balanced XLR's - This is something a $10 RCA to XLR adapter resolves.

DTS96/24 - decoded at 48kHz - I suggest do an audio comparison to any other DTS96/24 setup and you be the judge. This is actually a good thing because Halo has implemented the best quality DTS96/24 I've heard in a PrePro, regardless of the specs. This is also one of the rarest forms of media available and likely won't impact most whether one agrees with me or not.

No HDMI or DVI upgrade planned - This is completely incorrect. I suggest that Halo will have it implemented before Anthem. Halo's universal player will have HDMI that will provide a direct connect to the PrePro's.

The D1 is a good piece of gear. Sonically though, I feel the Halo C1 and C2 outperform it. Remember, I can easily own either (by selling both brands) and I choose Halo.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[LEVESQUE]

No HDMI or DVI upgrade planned - This is completely incorrect. I suggest that Halo will have it implemented before Anthem. Halo's universal player will have HDMI that will provide a direct connect to the PrePro's.

For a dealer, your sources are not pretty good...

Did you knew the Anthem solution will be a complete scaler? with custom resolutions implemented, that will be able to compete with the DVDO IScan HD? I'm not suppose to put those info on any forums, but I couldn't resist... Did Parasound talk about any scaling abilities for their pre/pro? Don't think so...

BTW, I'm still searching for those firmware upgrades on Parasound website and I'm not able to find them... And for the price of the upgrades, 2 well known Parasound delaers on AVS did confirm that the price will be around 800-900$ or more...

Both are pretty awesome machines. It's down to the end-user to make a choice. And for some, the cost is important. So beeing a dealer and buying at the cost doesn't really count for your choice. And we pretty well know that some dealers are using at home what they sell with the biggest margin to convince their customers... I know because my dealer is my best friend... But that's another story.

Both are awesome products. But the choice was easy for me. I respect you choice. And I could have bought both at the cost also, and the D1 was superior to my ears to the C1/C2 sonically, and outperforming both.

[Kingdaddy]

The $800-$900 upgrade will not be for the firmware, it will obviously be for the HDMI/DVI which will be a separate matching box. Anyway, neither Parasound nor Anthem had actually got these upgrades on the shelf yet so it's all speculation until it actually happens, don’t count you eggs (scaler option) until they hatch. I sure if Anthem offers a scaler option anywhere near the likes of the DVDO they will charge at least $800 as well. Can't say which would sound better though, never heard anyone who actually compared them side by side in the same system, but there are some who have compared the AV30 side by side to the Halo

[Chris D]

Geez... not sure what direction this is going, but let's make sure we keep this friendly, okay everybody? We all like the equipment we have, sure. And comparing and contrasting equipment that you are familiar with is great. But let's not set this up to be an "emphasize as much negative stuff as I can about the OTHER guys stuff" thing.

[LEVESQUE]

Chris D. I found that post from bhuskins in HTGuide:

"For those of you who don't know me from AVS, I happen to be one of the largest Halo dealers in the states (located in Texas) and use the C1/A51/A21/T3 in my personal home theater. I couldn't be happier."

Just imagine it that way instead: "For those of you who don't know me from AVS, I happen to be one of the largest Halo dealers in the states (located in Texas) and use the Anthem D1/P5 in my personal home theater. I couldn't be happier." Something would be really wrong... No?

I think the point is clear. A dealer shouldn't be able to participate on public forum. He makes a living out of selling Halo, and he's the biggest seller in the State... Enormous bias IMHO... It's a business. The more Halos he sells, the better the prices from Parasound, or discounts, or rebates will be. I know, I own 2 pharmacies. You should see what some companies are offering me every year when my numbers are good with in front of the counter products (not medication). It's crazy. I know how it works... The more I sell their products, the nicer they get with me. :wink:

It's ok to help Parasound users with technical problems and participate in the parasound forum. But it's another thing completely to come here pushing a product you sell (and the product with the biggest margin or the best "deals", probably).

Making alot of money by selling a product can make you "hear" it differently...

BTW, a forum member just told me by e-mail that our dealer here did offer big discounts for Halo products in the "Parasound vs Bryston" thread, and that this post was ERASED. Strange... :roll:

[sikoniko]

any pre/pro discounts offered to forum members? figured it wouldnt hurt to ask... heheh

[LEVESQUE]

Anyway, neither Parasound nor Anthem had actually got these upgrades on the shelf yet so it's all speculation until it actually happens, don’t count you eggs (scaler option) until they hatch.

Do you know what a beta-tester is? :B It's the guy testing a unit at home just after the alpha-testing is complete, and just before the product is released to the public...

[Chris D]

Okay, STOP. This thread started nice, and has been twisted. I'm going to take off my hat as a Parasound owner and post here as a forum Moderator. This goes to everyone.

First, ANYONE is welcome to post here in HT Guide, whether they be enthusiasts, product owners, dealers and their staff, professional reviewers, or manufacturers. I will not allow any member or staff here to push another member away based on their status or non-status in the A/V community. On the same note, we don't have to come to the Guide here as faceless people. Talking about our jobs, equipment, and background is okay, and even encouraged in off-topic areas of HTGuide.

However, blatant advertising by dealers, manufacturers, or others is and always has been STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If anyone wishes to advertise on HT Guide, they are very welcome and encouraged, but must contact the forum owners at the bottom of the page for official sponsorship. Clubs for numerous individual brands have been set up here on the Guide as a nice central place to talk about anything related to that brand. However, individual advertising there is still prohibited as well.

Lastly, on a slightly less official note, I want to see discussions on the Guide kept civil, with courtesy towards others and their equipment. We all love our equipment, but there is no need to solely bag on other people's equipment. Anyone may participate in compare-and-contrast conversations, but do so in a constructive manner, not just attacking stuff you don't own. Furthermore, anyone found to be attacking competing equipment to further their own inside manufacturer contacts, instead of talking constructively about their experiences, will be asked to leave HTGuide

I have always allowed and encouraged competing viewpoints, including those who have visited Club Parasound and posted about testing Parasound and other equipment, but choosing another brand for whatever reason. Levesque, you'll notice that to now I haven't said anything about your visiting Club Parasound and pushing Bryston instead. I think knowledge of various equipment is good for consumers, even if opinions are contrary to my own.

bhuskins and I have talked a long time ago about participating here on the Guide as a member, including bringing his experience and knowledge as a dealer, but without crossing the line into advertising for himself or companies he represents. This has been largely respected.

Even with Levesque's inside contacts at Anthem and Bryston, he is also welcome to participate here at the Guide, but it must be in a manner that is constructive. He is welcome to point out negative aspects of other equipment, but I'm sure everyone here would be much more interested to hear the GOOD things that you know about the brands that you're getting inside information about.

This thread has crossed the line. Let's get it back on track of it's intended purpose to point out advantages of one brand over the other, not solely attack one brand or the other.

[bhuskins]

For a dealer, your sources are not pretty good...

Did you knew the Anthem solution will be a complete scaler? with custom resolutions implemented, that will be able to compete with the DVDO IScan HD? I'm not suppose to put those info on any forums, but I couldn't resist... Did Parasound talk about any scaling abilities for their pre/pro? Don't think so...

I'm only responding to this because you are incorrect and I don't want the spread of misinformation. Halo is looking to implement scaling capabilities as well in their HDMI switch. Like Kingdaddy said though...this is all speculation for both brands until products are available for sale. BTW - my sources are the President and Director of Operations. So, please don't insult me. It serves no purpose.

BTW, I'm still searching for those firmware upgrades on Parasound website and I'm not able to find them... And for the price of the upgrades, 2 well known Parasound dealers on AVS did confirm that the price will be around 800-900$ or more...

What are the dealer's names? I'll be sure to let them know that they are incorrect. Upgrades will have a low cost range and historically Parasound has never offered an upgrade that cost over $500. It also depends on what upgrade you are talking about. There are several on the way.

So beeing a dealer and buying at the cost doesn't really count for your choice. And we pretty well know that some dealers are using at home what they sell with the biggest margin to convince their customers... I know because my dealer is my best friend...

I happen to make more money per unit selling Anthem, and still prefer Halo...your point is invalid...enough said.

Both are awesome products. But the choice was easy for me. I respect you choice. And I could have bought both at the cost also, and the D1 was superior to my ears to the C1/C2 sonically, and outperforming both.

I'm glad you're happy with your system. A purchase of this magnitude deserves admiration.

Realize that every room sounds different...and I respect your opinion...I just disagree with your choice (as it pertains to me)...no big deal.

Brent Huskins
Media Design
(817)300-1223

[bhuskins]

Chris D. I found that post from bhuskins in HTGuide:

"For those of you who don't know me from AVS, I happen to be one of the largest Halo dealers in the states (located in Texas) and use the C1/A51/A21/T3 in my personal home theater. I couldn't be happier."

Just imagine it that way instead: "For those of you who don't know me from AVS, I happen to be one of the largest Halo dealers in the states (located in Texas) and use the Anthem D1/P5 in my personal home theater. I couldn't be happier." Something would be really wrong... No?

I think the point is clear. A dealer shouldn't be able to participate on public forum. He makes a living out of selling Halo, and he's the biggest seller in the State... Enormous bias IMHO... It's a business. The more Halos he sells, the better the prices from Parasound, or discounts, or rebates will be. I know, I own 2 pharmacies. You should see what some companies are offering me every year when my numbers are good with in front of the counter products (not medication). It's crazy. I know how it works... The more I sell their products, the nicer they get with me. :wink:

You don't get it...I sell Anthem and Bryston too and another 150 lines! That's the whole reason I have very little bias due to my vast experience with multiple lines.

I agree with Chris and want this thread to get back on track. It's a shame that I'm forced to defend what I say in such a manner (like I don't know what I'm saying or that I'm not telling the truth or offering my sincere unbiased opinion. I will continue to respond to your insults, but I'm hoping this will cease.

It's ok to help Parasound users with technical problems and participate in the parasound forum. But it's another thing completely to come here pushing a product you sell (and the product with the biggest margin or the best "deals", probably).

Making alot of money by selling a product can make you "hear" it differently...

I sell both so this doesn't make sense. FYI - both companies’ margins are near identical.

BTW, a forum member just told me by e-mail that our dealer here did offer big discounts for Halo products in the "Parasound vs Bryston" thread, and that this post was ERASED. Strange... :roll:

I discount EVERYTHING I sell, but I'm not here to sell. I'm here to share my personal experiences and my many years in the A/V business. I said something that was misconstrued as selling so I deleted it. I’m just here to help.

Let's quit the name calling like Chris said and get back on track.

Just to show that I'm a good guy...I apologize for any hard feelings and I'm sure you are going to be happy with your Anthem setup for years to come.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[Chris D]

Okay, really. Enough. Leave the above posts alone, and let's talk about only this subject, so we don't have to stop the thread.

[bhuskins]

Sounds good to me...

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[Peterc4c]

Now I almost feel sorry I asked. 8O 8O

[Peterc4c]

I did say ALMOST. :B :B

Guys, Thanks for all the insights.

Peter

[Sithlord]

Levesque you really need to learn how to talk on a HT forum. Your posts this year have been from informative to non productive. You have proven that you certainly know what your talking about with some things but to assume that others don't is just wrong. Allow others to express their opinion and just go with it. Read other posts on this forum to get a feel for how to discuss not prove wrong and you will not affend or upset other members. I like reading what you have to say about equipment that you own but don't put down other peoples purchases. There can be plenty of reasons why a person chooses a particular product as not all rooms are created equal and not all tastes are the same. Theres just too many varibles thats why it's better to just compliment them on their purchase and wish them the best of luck. If you follow these simple guide lines we can avoid disussions like this one going from civil to not so civil which doesn't make it too enjoyable for others who wish to join in. I'm sorry to single you out but I really like this forum and I hate to see threads going in this direction.

On a side note both products are just simply awesome and I would have gone with one of them but they are just too expensive over here and the Arcam was really the only other choice. In saying that though I'm extremely happy with it and hope that with future upgrades it will make it even more enjoyable. Just my 2 cents

[David Meek]

Being one of the day-time "hall monitors", I'll chime in here. The positive comments towards others being made are appreciated, but tone down the negatives. Let's not egg the situation on.

Please folks, carry on. . . .