Cheap Denon 1600s

[Andrew Pratt]

Just a heads up if anyones looking for a kick ass DVD player on the cheap. eCost currently has some refurbished Denon 1600's in stock for cheap. There's only 40 or so left at the time or writing this...likely even less then that if their website hasn't been updated yet. As you likely know the Denon 1600 is pretty much a rebadged Panasonic RP82 with upgraded audio (8 burr brown dacs) for DVD-A and upsampling of CD's. The secrets DVD Shoot Out rated this play top of the heap along with the Panny 82 so its a good player.

Also as a note to any Canadians reading this eCost is a boarderfree dealer so duty and shipping are all taken care of for you which is fantastic.

Denon 1600 link

[Chris D]

Looks good. They actually have the big brother better model 4800 for sale too. I'd just be worried about two things- that there are so many refurbished units of the same model, possibly revealing a flaw, and that Denon probably won't honor the warranty from this e-tailer. Denon's really cracked down on that recently and turned away people for buying from the wrong place.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[efarstad]

Good points Chris, but I'm not worried about 40 refurbs out of the 1,000's or possible 10,000's that are made! As for warranty...I'm rolling the dice cause I doubt they'll honor it but ya never know!

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[David Meek]

Denon's really cracked down on that recently and turned away people for buying from the wrong place.

Beware of this! I was burned on my Yamaha RX-V1 purchase for the same thing. I got it through a group buy at another once-fun-but-now-a-slave-to-the-studios-forum that SEEMED to be legit. It wasn't. There was a flaw in the early units that cost me several hundred dollars to repeatedly deal with. Buy ONLY where it's authorized.




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[Danbry39]

I'll be the HTGuide Guinea Pig. I've been meaning to get a new DVD player and the 1600 was on my short list, so............thanks for the heads up Andrew. You really can't beat that price and a one year extended warranty is only $19. I'm knocking on wood right now, but have yet to have a bad internet buying experience yet, even though I've bought online over a hundred times. The last DVD I bought was a Toshiba for the kids for $29 plus shipping from Ubid and that was 6 months ago with no problems whatsoever, so I hope this will work out as well.




Keith

[Ricky]

My Toshiba 56H80 16x9 HDTV was calibrated by the famous Michael TLV 18 months ago, with my RP91 in the house. Is it even worth it for me to try the denon 1600/rp82 and risk having ME mess with the color differences if I sell the RP91?

[Andrew Pratt]

Ricky there might be some minor differences but I doubt you'd notice them with the RP82/1600/XP30 etc but that said there's been a number of comparisons between the RP91 and the RP82 etc and I'm not sure the differences are worth the hassle of changing...but a quick test would be to go out and "buy" a XP30 or XP50 locally to see how you like the image...most places have a generous return policy

The DVD-A should be a little better on the Denon with its 8 burr brown DAC's though.

FYI my 1600 cleared customs yesterday so I expect I'll have it early this week and Erik's was ordered just behind me so his should be there soon as well

[Danbry39]

Received mine today. Haven't really had time to test it out. Seems like new territory after my trusty, familiar Toshiba.

A couple of questions:

Should you set your black level to light or dark?

And

Maybe Andrew can help here. Should the sound be down converted to 44.1? I thought the Rotel 1066 handled up to 96, or am I wrong? Do I even make sense here?

Initial (very) observations:

A little more jitter on the titles than the Toshiba. Vibrates around more.
A lot more depth to the visuals (three dimensionality)
Sounds significantly better on Dolby Digital than did the Toshiba.

Biggest disappointment thus far: Without getting into the debate of which connect is better, the Denon only offers an optical connect to the pre-pro or receiver. You'd think that they'd offer both.




Keith

[Andrew Pratt]

mine arrived today as well. Yes you should set it to "Darker" since this will pass more black level which comes in handy for calibrating...esp with VE. Also don't let it downconvert if you intend on listening to any DAD's or tracks higher the 48 khz from the digital outputs...since there's no reason to downconvert leave it at no.

I agree its a dissapointment to have to go back to optical but for DTS and DD I doubt I'll notice anything.

[Danbry39]

Thanks Andrew,

That's how I ended up setting the Denon. By the way, I did get to watch a bit of Road to Perdition and am very impressed thus far. I'm more audio oriented, than video, so I'll have to say that Dolby Digital most definitely has taken a jump up from my Toshiba. My wife has confirmed that there is more of a feeling of depth to the picture and, although the Toshiba had DVDA, I was never that interested. Now, I am.




Keith

[Andrew Pratt]

I fired up a DVD to see how the image looked and I must say I'm not impressed at all...there seems to be more detail then the sony which is what I expected but the whole image seems to have a strong red push. It has a built in user mode to fine tune that so I''m going to be pulling out Avia and seeing what I can do about that. I'm curious to see if anyone else see's that with there Denon's.

[Kevin P]

Pr@ can you describe the red push? Is the whole screen red or are reds exaggerated (the usual definition of red push, e.g. sunburned faces)?

I don't know about the 1600, but some players have a switch, menu option, or button on the remote to select between the S-video and component outputs, and if this is not selected correctly you'll get all red or all blue from the component output.

KJP




Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
My HT Site

[Danbry39]

If I'm correct, red push refers to exageratted red colors on the screen.

Andrew, so far I've only watched a short bit using the new Denon, but I noticed no characteristics suggesting a red push problem. Of course, Road to Perdition probably isn't the best disc to test this out on. I'll try to watch something like Moulin Rouge or Monster's, Inc this weekend to see if it occurs there.

A question: Are you sure your component cables are all securly connected. I know this is kind of a "spit in the wind" type guess, but once, when I'd ordered new Rhino component cables, the colors were all off. Then, I noticed that one of the cables had come loose. Once it was securely connected, all the problem disappeared.




Keith

[Lex]

I was made aware this player is optical out only, and I just sent Denon an email saying big mistake, big mistake, huge. The high end crowd wants digital coax out on everything we buy. You just lost my recommendation with optical only...

No offense intended to the guys buying, but digital coax is the superior transmission method. Always smoother, more refined to my ears.

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[David Meek]

Careful there, Lex ol' buddy. You'll get the "bits is bits" and the "I can't hear it" crowds all stirred up with comments like that. Hehe.
:hb




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[George Bellefontaine]

Bits is bits and I can't hear the difference...hee, hee :LOL:

Just kidding, Lex. Love my Thundercat coax.




My Homepage!

[Lex]

Actually David, bits may not be just bits. Optical connections require what I believe is an RTX converter to convert an electronic pulse to light beams and then back to electronic pulse mode. The quality of these converters can possibly vary greatly with the quality of the component, and influence the signal they are carrying.

Think about it, an optical signal must be converted to light from pulse mode, travel, then converted back from light to pulse, rebuilding the signal's electronic characteristics. It may not be the optimal connection, when digital coax does not require any such conversion and the cable's electronic characteristics don't have to be rebuilt.

Since I am not an engineer, my explanation is somewhat simple compared to what Jon could do, and who knows, he may disagree.

But as a listener, I do believe these reasons to be valid.

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[Andrew Pratt]

Guys this is a thread on the Denon 1600 take your coax vs optical fight to another thread please :

I'll be spending some more time with the Denon tonight to see what's going on with the over all red tint to the image. I only had chance to try it out as a CD player and a few very quick DVD demo's so its very possible that its something simple.

[David Meek]

Oh, I'm in the "I heard it and I believe" camp. No problems here. Back OT. . . .

[Danbry39]

You'd think that Denon would have at least offered the digital coax, especially given its list is $549 and several sub $200 units offer both. I'm interested if Denon responds to Lex's email and hope the response is posted here.




Keith

[MuShu007]

Andrew
Are you sure it's red push? maybe some red flicker? Unfortunately on the 1600 the picture adjustment can only be done when it is set on interlaced mode,on Progressive mode it's non tweakable.Cinema and normal mode seems like gamma adjustment.
This player looks awesome on my Mits (major tweaked,red push fix,duvetyned) compared to my previous JVC723/Toshiba 6200,smoother sounding too.

MIKE

http://www.pbase.com/mushu/my_hometheater

[Danbry39]

Andrew,

Got around to looking for red push tonight. Put in Toy Story II as this would be a good indicator. Saw absolutely no signs of red push and was looking specifically for it. All I saw was the best picture I've ever seen out of a DVD player. Take it with a grain of salt however as, although this is my fourth DVD player, I bought my first one only about a year and a half ago. Still, I like the picture a lot more than my Toshibas.

I've been listening to CD's to see how the Denon compared with my other players. It has a nice, smooth, kind of laid back sound, but is not nearly as good as my Arcam as far as detail, dynamics, authority, musicality, etc. Then again, the Arcam is a $900 list price player. It sounds more like my Harman Kardon CD changer and most definitely sounds superior to playing CD's through my Toshiba DVD players.

Interested to know if any others got one of the refurbs and what their experiences are so far.

Last note: Ordered my first two DVDA's today from AIX and can't wait. Both are supposed to be among the best recorded DVDA's ever. Now, I'll hear what DVDA has to offer.




Keith

[Andrew Pratt]

I guess red push was the wrong way to describ what I was seeing with the image since it means something quite different...sorry I'll try to be more clear next time Anyway I finally got some time last night to play with it a little more and rechecked my component cables and sure enough the red cable wasn't seated properly. Fixing that has improved the picture quality greatly! I also spent a little time testing the players ability to downconvert its image for 4:3 TV's and was pleasantly surprised at how good it was...and thats coming from someone that was used to the Sony 7700.

[David Meek]

Pr@, that's good news about correcting the problem. As good as the 7700, huh? Impressive.




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[Andrew Pratt]

As good as the 7700, huh? Impressive.

Well I wouldn't call it the 7700's equal in downconversion just yet but its better then I thought. Remeber that Sony's downconversion is a lot softer then Panasonic's in general so a lot comes down to do you want to see any jaggies but get a slightly softer image or have a few jaggies but a sharper image...so far I'd say the Denon's a nice comprimese between the two but I need to test it more...that said since my Wega can squeeze the image it may not be a issue for me depending on which projector I end up with.

[Kevin P]

Glad to hear you solved your red tint problem. A lot of times it turns out to just be a cable problem.

Isn't the Denon 1600 basically a rebadged Panasonic RP82? It would stand to reason that the Denon's downconversion would thus be comparable to the current Panasonics, which I've heard is better than earlier Panasonics. Supposedly it is in between the two extremes of Sony (soft with no jaggies) and earlier Toshiba (crisp with lots of jaggies). It's probably comparable to the generally excellent Pioneer downconversion.

Have you tried DVD-A yet? I'm curious as to your impressions. I've never heard DVD-A but I have 2-channel SACD in my system which I enjoy a lot.

KJP




Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
My HT Site

[Andrew Pratt]

Yes its a rebadged Pany 82 with upgraded DAC's for DVD-A and CD playback. I haven't tried DVD-A yet but its on my list of things to do

[Danbry39]

Whew!!! ;h Really glad your Denon is up and running Andrew. I was really worried that it might be defective. Again, thanks for the tip. I can't believe we got the unit at the price we did. ;lx And, I'm enjoying it more and more every day. I'm just getting antsy for those dang DVDA's to arrive.




Keith

[David R]

I'm in a simlar situation to Ricky. Currently have an RP-91 with which my RPTV was calibrated. The 1600 looks like a better player, but not sure how much better it would look on calibrated tv. I am very interested in the upgraded DACs for DVD-A.

I assume the 1600 does not have the scaling feature of the RP-91? The ability to scale non-anamorphic DVDs to fit my 16:9 screen is really nice.

Ricky, did you get a 1600? If so, any comments about it vs your RP-91?

David